The Crystal Caves - The Yoshi Social Thread

[Garr]

There's nothing more hype then when i go back to watch my videos and i hear the commentators say "ooh excellent parry by mumbo" even though i only did some glitchy shield thing that didn't even put me in an advantageous position.

This is probably the most hype thing that happened on stream for me. Too bad I was on the receiving end.

 

[didds]

Hey guys, I'm just here to remind everyone, including myself, that we're all terrible and need to get better still.

That's all.

 

[Timid_Panda]

Hello, I've recently decided I dont want to be terrible, but I cant find any useful guides or people to talk to about how to get into Yoshi overall. Thinking of switching to a character with a more active board.

 

[Scatz]

Information doesn't really get posted on here. It's mainly to the players or on skype sadly.

 

[THE adversary]

Another thing that could help you in the MU. Yoshi has an unfavorable lack of disjoints, and some of his hurtboxes are just stupid, like in his Bair. Abuse that when @ hamyojo approaches with Bair. His range is good, but Nair is his only good disjoint.

Bair's stupid looking hurtbox was just a byproduct of the way Brawlbox related models to hurtboxes IIRC

 

[hamyojo]

Hello, I've recently decided I dont want to be terrible, but I cant find any useful guides or people to talk to about how to get into Yoshi overall. Thinking of switching to a character with a more active board.

... Should I write a guide? I should write a guide. Also @ TomBoComBo should.

 

[TomBoComBo]

I want to, but I will definitely need a large amount of input form the rest of you because I don't use some of Yoshi's tech like DJC Uair juggles and ECEs and stuff.
I'd be more than happy to put out a guide on how I personally play Yoshi if you want me to, it'll mainly be focused on mental because Mental game is my core.
What do you guys think I should do?

 

[THE adversary]

Maybe share what your mental game is focused on?

 

[TomBoComBo]

Maybe share what your mental game is focused on?

My game is focused on the opponent and how I can make them squirm. I play "In the Moment", which means there is no such thing as autopilot for me because I'm always thinking and always trying to outsmart the opponent. I'll do something that doesn't make much sense to confuse, then create a mental gap with it. Then I pry that gap open and climb in. It's less finding their predictable habits and more creating micro-situations. Micro-situations allow me to play rock-paper-scissors with my opponent and I do my best to take the majority of their options. This method provides me with information on the player's thought process and if they're actively thinking (you'd be surprised how many people play smash instinctively and/or on auto-pilot). If they are on auto-pilot, they're easy to reprogram or read, making an option seem safe and killing them when they take it. The thinking opponent isn't as easy but you can unnerve them and make them think more than they should be. As an example, if you hit them with an aerial eggroll exitbox (or hitbox rolling off a platform), they'll instinctively stay away from you when you're in eggroll. You start to create thoughts that make them second guess how to react and they hesitate. Hesitation means free food. Yoshi is my main because he allows me to play so deep into this style, being unpredictable by nature and having a crazy punish game (plus grab game). Perfect Character for me as a player. Many have told me or talked about me being one of the most patient players they've ever played. I just say I'm smart. Whatever the case, this is my game.

This is the basis of my game, the little things in my play that make it what it is are more complicated
things like:
active spacing (everyone should have it)
jab-locks
patience
mindset-shifts
egg pressure
empty hops
etc.

If you guys want me to make a guide on mental, I'd be happy to do it. Recording footage I'd need help with (for those who need to see what I mean by some aspects)

Also, there are players who will make their own mistakes, so you don't need to force them to do anything, just call them out on everything they do wrong (They will get mad at you though)

 

[Garr]

I've been meaning to make GIFs of every single Yoshi tech, and now that I have the recording equipment, might as well hop to it. My mental game with the character is iffy, but what I do understand is that you need to look at the options you take and find reason behind it.

 

[TomBoComBo]

Just play with a purpose behind every input. even if it's to style, that's still a purpose. Auto-pilot is the same as stagnation in your game, you'll never get worse, but you'll never get better.

 

[didds]

I never do uair strings in PM, for whatever reason they just don't seem so effective in PM. The only times I'd use it in melee are times when regrabbing makes more sense for PM.

Yoshi just has better options for the most part, so uair has become a lot more niche.

 

[Scatz]

Uair strings often net me 0-60% damage alone. Since the hitstun last a little longer on moves, it has become less of a staple combo move than some others, but I feel that it's still a very useful basic combo level string.

 

[didds]

Uair strings often net me 0-60% damage alone. Since the hitstun last a little longer on moves, it has become less of a staple combo move than some others, but I feel that it's still a very useful basic combo level string.

The one difference I see, is I would often use it in melee for the that really low pop up, then net maybe 3 more before finishing the string, in Pm, and I dont know why (maybe character models or something) it just doesn't seem as effective towards the ground and it also feels like I get a lot less horizontal mobility (again, maybe this is just me). There also so many more relevant floaty characters that the uair strings don't work on, and with his nair buff, I'll usually opt to just knock fast fallers off stage earlier and go for the edgeguard. Not to mention is easy mode utilt can continue strings stupid easy now.

Do you have any clips where you get solid Uair strings? I'm genuinely curious and think it may just be a personal adjustment issue.

 

[Scatz]

I do, but they're old right now (3.02 old). I'll try to get some new stuff.

Horizontal mobility normally isn't an issue for me because I claw. It definitely is weaker when going against floaties, but for characters like Pika, Lucas, Spacies, and Fatties, I typically get up to 3 or more.

 

[didds]

ah okay, I don't claw, so I basically hold the direction I want to move in during the double jump, and then move it into the up position as I press A for the uair. I just rapid press Y for all of my jumps, except for rising uairs when I'll just use control stick.

I still don't know why, but melee just feels smoother with uair strings, though I'm beginning to suspect my muscle memory just fits the game better due to minor changes in the engine that haven't been fixed yet.

 

[Garr]

Best way to get those Uair strings is easily a jab reset.

 

[didds]

Best way to get those Uair strings is easily a jab reset.

That was always how I did it in melee, usually I'll opt for the regrab instead though for PM

 

[Scatz]

Depending on the situation, you can net Uairs from shielding a mis-spaced approach.

 

[didds]

I've done that to kill off floaties before, good quick option

 

[TomBoComBo]

I'd rather just go for something guaranteed than do tech that covers a small number of options
That's just me personally, I'm very simple

 

[Timid_Panda]

... Should I write a guide? I should write a guide. Also @ TomBoComBo should.

I think it would be a huge step for the community. When you go into other character boards, its like "HERE IS THE STARTER GUIDE FOR THIS CHARACTER". Not to mention I'd personally have a lot to gain from it

 

[didds]

I'd rather just go for something guaranteed than do tech that covers a small number of options
That's just me personally, I'm very simple

For the sake of personal growth, I find it best to have the most number of options possible, even if some are incredibly niche.
Not to be used stupidly of course, but even the most situational tech is the best option at times.

More options also means more that your opponent has to worry about, more mixup in general.

Unfortunately it's difficult to recognize these opportunities at first so some people may suck at incorporating things at first, but that's pretty natural.

 

[TomBoComBo]

For the sake of personal growth, I find it best to have the most number of options possible, even if some are incredibly niche.
Not to be used stupidly of course, but even the most situational tech is the best option at times.

More options also means more that your opponent has to worry about, more mixup in general.

Unfortunately it's difficult to recognize these opportunities at first so some people may suck at incorporating things at first, but that's pretty natural.

I agree completely, but at the same time, I'm a minimalist in smash, so I see it mostly as fancy vs reliability

 

[Scatz]

It's the reason why top players have a step above. You have some that will stay on fundamentals and being simple, but when you have that moment where you need to maximize damage, those harder techs begin to shine. I've seen it countless times in Melee where PPMD, aMSa, Armada, etc. will go for the situational combos/strings to get the early kill or damage they need to stay in the game.

 

[Garr]

If there's something you haven't learned, unless you don't want to be the uncontested Yoshi master, learn it. I'll still be side b spamming if I didn't follow this advice.

 

[Mumbo]

@ hamyojo has the most control out of any yoshi ive seen and @ TomBoComBo has the most character and matchup knowledge. I do also think tombo is probably the best mentally but i would advise against following a guide telling you how you should play yoshi. Guides are more of a "this is how you can play yoshi" thing and you should develop your own playstyle from there.

I think it would be best if ham focused on the techskill/movement part of the guide and tombo focused on the knowledge part of the guide (esp since he cant even djc shots fired). As a community we should all develop and adapt playstyles from eachother, and that cant really be expressed in guide format.

 

[Scatz]

Should also be a guide of what you should know about the character. The two you listed sound more specific than a guide that would list short explanations upon the moves' usefulness. The fact that people are shocked to find out about small stuff that we've known about a while means that we need documentation of it for players to look and understand what they do for yoshi.

 

[Garr]

Should also be a guide of what you should know about the character. The two you listed sound more specific than a guide that would list short explanations upon the moves' usefulness. The fact that people are shocked to find out about small stuff that we've known about a while means that we need documentation of it for players to look and understand what they do for yoshi.

Pretty much why I wanna start working on the tech GIFS. It'll document how to do it and what purpose they serve in the game.

 

[hamyojo]

Started a guide. Guides are harder than I thought.
On the topic of mindgames... Heh. It's kinda impossible to beat someone like Sethlon without mindgames. I have plenty, but they're not as consistent as Tombo's Id imagine. I use lots of frame traps on shield and have a solid list of approaches and such, plus a large wealth of... unique situational knowledge due to all my time as a Melee Yoshi.
Oh, and on uair strings, they DEFINITELY have their place, but mostly on fast fallers, more on floaties than you'd expect. In PM I use uairs more after utilt wont reach, so you have to know when the utilt will whiff and finish off the combo with uair string>fair or something like that. I was just doing this a few minutes ago.

And, ugh, I hate that I'm starting to use Side-B, but I labbed with it for like an hour. Side B is faster than dashing once it gets going, so lets say I'm on the left side of FD... I down smash my opponent in to the stage, who's at 120%. I can't get to the other side. Fastest way to get there? Side B. Now, the fun part comes with the trick of side b-ing so you snap to the ledge! The goal for me is to get the explosion hitbox, then a few frames later grab the ledge. I've been using this a lot, and through doing so I've found this can also add to Yoshi's plethera of pressuring options, even though it's stupid cheesy. I hope it gets nerfed, it's stronger than I want it to be... Anyway! Tonight at IaB I'mma try using side-b more. I think it has potential in some spots.

 

[Mumbo]

GIMR admitted to trading PM for money. Idk about you guys but I have lost all respect for GIMR.

 

[THE adversary]

lmao that was so on topic

going off topic here, but what is Yoshi's Bair good for?

 

[Timid_Panda]

GIMR admitted to trading PM for money. Idk about you guys but I have lost all respect for GIMR.

Being new to the community, I watched most of my PM on VGBC. Obviously I dont know everything, but reading his post was kinda like "they dont like it, I work for them now, bye"

 

[Feral Cadence]

Kind of off topic here too, but I've really been improving my Yoshi, and I want to prove it/be able to learn better by going to tournaments. Unfortunately, I live in a Melee-elitist area, so PM tournaments don't happen nearby, or often. Add onto that the fact that I have two jobs and a girlfriend, and I'm struggling to find time.

What I'm wondering is how often you guys go to tournaments. I'm trying to get a weekly or semi-weekly going in Buffalo sometime soon, but that will pretty much eat up all the rest of my time.

 

[didds]

Kind of off topic here too, but I've really been improving my Yoshi, and I want to prove it/be able to learn better by going to tournaments. Unfortunately, I live in a Melee-elitist area, so PM tournaments don't happen nearby, or often. Add onto that the fact that I have two jobs and a girlfriend, and I'm struggling to find time.

What I'm wondering is how often you guys go to tournaments. I'm trying to get a weekly or semi-weekly going in Buffalo sometime soon, but that will pretty much eat up all the rest of my time.

I have a good group, all MN pr members that I usually play friendlies with once a week. I'll go to maybe a tournament every other weekend or so, depending on how busy the smash season is.

I have the gf johns too, but you should be able to make time if she's reasonable and your willing to do some give and take.

Your lack of PM scene is obviously your biggest road block, so you pretty much are going to have to develop one yourself -_-

Though finding some good PM players to have friendlies with will still help.

AND ALWAYS TRY TO PLAY PEOPLE BETTER THAN YOU WHO WILL REALLY EXPLOIT YOUR WEAKNESSES AND BAD HABITS.

 

[Feral Cadence]

I'm probably the best PM-centered player in my area, though there a couple of Melee players that are good at moving between games who give me trouble. Hopefully once I start putting on tournaments they'll start showing up.

I'm forced to play against computers way too often, since I'm only able to play real people every couple of weeks or so. This, above all, needs to change.

 

[didds]

I'm probably the best PM-centered player in my area, though there a couple of Melee players that are good at moving between games who give me trouble. Hopefully once I start putting on tournaments they'll start showing up.

I'm forced to play against computers way too often, since I'm only able to play real people every couple of weeks or so. This, above all, needs to change.

Definitely, there are so many vital parts of smash that you just need humans for practice against. Things like DI, getting your techs down, hell even adapting to l-cancels when you hit an opponents shield.

 

[GSM_Dren]

So after my 'meh' first impression of PM yoshi months ago and severe lack of PM playtime, I played him yesterday for a couple of hours against friends. I've got to say that he functions a lot better with DJC and jumping OoS, and while movement still is pretty awkward, I can get use to it. His utilt is great, and dtilt has surprisingly farther reach. I definitely need to practice ECE for sure. Are there any changes or gameplay tips I should now about, fellow yoshi mains?

 

[THE adversary]

Pivot grab and wavelands are your friends.
Yoshi's pivot grab is superior to his standing grab
wavelands for dat dank stage movement

 

[Feral Cadence]

I've been looking for some footage of good Yoshi players, and there really isn't much out there. I have a bit of footage of myself from my most recent tournament that I can post, but I don't know if it'll be useful, since I'm not at a really high level of play.

Would it still be worth posting, if only to have more footage floating around? I'm pretty good with my tech skill, but garbage with my neutral and fundamentals.