Meta The Charizard Metagame Discussion Topic

[JJBro1]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS6BRi8t8Ec&app=desktop

This is huge, but we all know it'll get patched out

No way am I changing R to jump for that.

 

[-LzR-]

What a coincidence, I have already had R set to jump for a couple years when I played Peach in Brawl and it had been left unused. Now it's time to change that and abuse it until it gets "fixed".

 

[Whiteface]

No way am I changing R to jump for that.

This totally works like a charm on the pro control. Extremely useful.

 

[The Real Gamer]

I just use L as jump now since I never use my left index finger for anything anyway.

This just made Rock Smash 2x better and it was already a great move to begin with.

 

[RadianB]

I just use L as jump now since I never use my left index finger for anything anyway.

This just made Rock Smash 2x better and it was already a great move to begin with.

Same here, never use my left index finger or L so having it as a spare button for this tech is awesome.

 

[Shog]

Yes. That sounds amazing...

(hopefully that doesn't get patched!)

 

[Joshkip]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS6BRi8t8Ec&app=desktop

This is huge, but we all know it'll get patched out

Lol just saw that this morning when I woke up. You beat me to it! Guess I was, "too slow?"

 

[YeahVeryeah]

I'm optimistic this won't get patched out.

 

[RadianB]

Been using this tech online in 1v1 and it's really good, destroys oppents approaching with short hop aerials. The only bad thing is that if I try to do the input too quickly I accidentally Flare Blitz myself off the stage.

 

[Rashid]

Now if only there was something similar for Fire Fang...

 

[Davregis]

Charizard isn't the only one who can do this. Ike can slide forward during his counter, and it's likely that most characters with a down-B that doesn't move them can pull similar tech. Robin still jumps a little while doing it, but he goes farther than Charizard.

This slightly decreases the possibility of a patch? I don't know

 

[RadianB]

Charizard isn't the only one who can do this. Ike can slide forward during his counter, and it's likely that most characters with a down-B that doesn't move them can pull similar tech. Robin still jumps a little while doing it, but he goes farther than Charizard.

This slightly decreases the possibility of a patch? I don't know

Doesn't that mean it's more likely to get patched since it's more wide spread?

 

[Davregis]

Doesn't that mean it's more likely to get patched since it's more wide spread?

It suggests that it's more of an engine thing than a character one, and you may be right :/

 

[DarkLouis331]

Sliding rock smash is amazing when your opponent is grabbing the edge. They can either get up attack and hit our super armor, or their invincibility frames run out and a chunk of crumbled rock hits them. Decent approach and you can reverse it as well to do a mini b-reverse rock smash. I feel this has improved Charizard's meta.

Also, Charizard won 57% to 43% against Yoshi in the latest conquest contest on wifi.

 

[RadianB]

I read somewhere that if you want to do an OoS UP B you need to tap jump first then press up and B, why is this?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Because the jump cancels your forced shield drop animation, and up b cancels your jump squat animation.

 

[RadianB]

Because the jump cancels your forced shield drop animation, and up b cancels your jump squat animation.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[Real Smooth-Like]

Just wanted to chime in and say that Ike's sliding counter, all sliding counters actually, have been removed from the game. So maybe Nintendo is deciding to keep the sliding rock smash tech, or they just forgot/didn't know about it. I sure hope it won't get patched. I feel like this tech single handed turned rock smash from a fantastic move to a godly move.

 

[roymustang1990-]

The sliding rock smash is most likely gonna get patched sooner or later. :/

 

[Davregis]

Just wanted to chime in and say that Ike's sliding counter, all sliding counters actually, have been removed from the game.

You can slide every counter using this method.

 

[JJBro1]

Is Charizard the slowest character in the game? Even Bowser's attacks come out quicker than Charizard's. There's an insane amount of lag to almost everything he does. Not sure why Sakurai made him much less quicker than he was in brawl. Hope he gets a quickness boost in the next patch.

 

[-LzR-]

To make up for it he is strong and has loads of armor. He runs fast too.

 

[JJBro1]

When should you use dair on the stage if at all? I feel like it has so much wind up, is easy to read, and has so much landing lag that it's not even worth risking it.

 

[-LzR-]

When should you use dair on the stage if at all? I feel like it has so much wind up, is easy to read, and has so much landing lag that it's not even worth risking it.

Dair is amazing. Just like go for it. You can always recover back even if you miss. Just know that if you miss you lose the edgeguard opportunity.
I hit so many Dairs it's not even funny.

 

[JJBro1]

Dair is amazing. Just like go for it. You can always recover back even if you miss. Just know that if you miss you lose the edgeguard opportunity.
I hit so many Dairs it's not even funny.

I'm talking about on the ground not off the stage looking for a spike.

 

[Davregis]

I'm talking about on the ground not off the stage looking for a spike.

You're right, it probably isn't worth risking unless they're in KO range, you get a super-hard read, AND you're certain they won't tech and punish anyway. (A2G)
Offstage, it's one of the better spikes.

 

[-LzR-]

I'm talking about on the ground not off the stage looking for a spike.

Dair is crap on the stage. Most of the time not even safe on hit and Bair kills much earlier.

 

[RadianB]

Is Charizard the slowest character in the game? Even Bowser's attacks come out quicker than Charizard's. There's an insane amount of lag to almost everything he does. Not sure why Sakurai made him much less quicker than he was in brawl. Hope he gets a quickness boost in the next patch.

His jab and up smash come out faster than any of Bowsers moves. Those are like Charizard's best moves. Also there's no need to Dair on stage since Nair is a much better option on stage.

 

[MagiusNecros]

IMO Charizard is faster then Bowser, can potentially survive longer then Bowser with Super Armor manipulation and actually has somewhat decent Aerial game. A better Fire Breath. And Flare Blitz. Along with UpSmash and Down Smash being Get Away from me moves.

That said matchup wise Bowser and Charizard usually have the same issues. But I generally win more with Charizard because when that Blitz comes out, it comes out and it wrecks. And Zard's dash is really fast for what it is. It's a "I'm gonna get ya" dash.

 

[Pippin (Peregrin Took)]

Been playing mainly as Dark Pit but might switch to Charizard as I was a huge pokemon trainer user back in brawl and I need to find ways to get the KO. Prob gonna be diggin flare blitz for the same reasons I like electroshock glove - horizontal recovery and super armor - but gotta be conservative with it I know (Sadly my local meta game doesn't allow customs yet or else I'd be dragon rushing for sure). Any other advice for a beginner?

 

[-LzR-]

Been playing mainly as Dark Pit but might switch to Charizard as I was a huge pokemon trainer user back in brawl and I need to find ways to get the KO. Prob gonna be diggin flare blitz for the same reasons I like electroshock glove - horizontal recovery and super armor - but gotta be conservative with it I know (Sadly my local meta game doesn't allow customs yet or else I'd be dragon rushing for sure). Any other advice for a beginner?

Pretend you are playing Street Fighter. Never jump unless you have a good reason for it. Zard aerials are great but not for the purpose of spacing. His tools are more for punishing and trading with things. And Zard is godly on the ground.

If your opponents play stuff like Sheik and Greninja and abuse the dairs just jump at them and upB. This can kill as early as 40-50%.

 

[Davregis]

Speaking of upB, OoS comes out fast enough to punish just about everything off a standard block, while USmash comes out nearly as. It seems that mastery of OoS would be essential towards matches against the faster characters?

 

[Funkermonster]

I heard the hitstun on Zard's first jab is so low, almost any character can just Nair out of it before being able to link into the 2nd jab and do the whole combo properly... like wtf?

Can anyone confirm/disprove this?

 

[-LzR-]

I heard the hitstun on Zard's first jab is so low, almost any character can just Nair out of it before being able to link into the 2nd jab and do the whole combo properly... like wtf?

Can anyone confirm/disprove this?

Hold A and this won't happen. It combos juuuuuust barely into the 2nd hit.

 

[spazsquirrle]

Okay so I have a couple questions about charizard. Btw this is for the 3ds.

1) is fox trotting possible with charizard? I can't seem to get it down. Anyone have any tips (videos or pictures preferred since I learn better from seeing)

2) is perfect pivoting possible with charizard ON the. 3ds? I recently saw a video about perfect pivoting and I want to get it down pat so I can utilize it, but I don't fully understand the timing. If anyone knows of a video that focuses on the 3ds and shows the timing for the joystick inputs that'd be great. (Basically a video of the joystick on the 3ds)

3) this isn't charizard specific but I've seen it on a lot of charizard threads. What is OOS? I noticed people mentioning it in relation to Rock smash.



Thanks for the help !!

 

[The Real Gamer]

@ spazsquirrle this didn't really warrant its own topic so I merged it with the Zard metagame discussion thread.

Unfortunately I can't help your 3DS specific questions since I exclusively play on the Wii U, but OoS = Out of Shield.

 

[Masonomace]

Okay so I have a couple questions about charizard. Btw this is for the 3ds.

1) is fox trotting possible with charizard? I can't seem to get it down. Anyone have any tips (videos or pictures preferred since I learn better from seeing)

2) is perfect pivoting possible with charizard ON the. 3ds? I recently saw a video about perfect pivoting and I want to get it down pat so I can utilize it, but I don't fully understand the timing. If anyone knows of a video that focuses on the 3ds and shows the timing for the joystick inputs that'd be great. (Basically a video of the joystick on the 3ds)

3) this isn't charizard specific but I've seen it on a lot of charizard threads. What is OOS? I noticed people mentioning it in relation to Rock smash.



Thanks for the help !!

1. it is: http://youtu.be/Uzv-fmiTH_M?t=24s / Charizard can fox trot on both versions
2. It is, but harder to do on the 3DS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vaR4RM-qr0
3. OOS meaks Out of Shield, & yeah you've probably noticed it from when people mention OoS + JC + Rock Smash & btw JC = Jump Canceled

 

[The Real Gamer]

If you're unfamiliar with the Jump Canceled Rock Smash I'd highly suggest you watch the following video:

It's a piece of tech every Zard main should learn, and it's fairly easy to get down with some practice.

 

[Davregis]

Hey, Charizard's DSmash hits lower than Little Mac's. Do we have another edgeguarding tool?

 

[spazsquirrle]

@ spazsquirrle this didn't really warrant its own topic so I merged it with the Zard metagame discussion thread.

Unfortunately I can't help your 3DS specific questions since I exclusively play on the Wii U, but OoS = Out of Shield.

Oops my bad, thanks for fixing it :D