You do realize that you also get respect for winning tourneys right? Plus, gameplay balance generates more respect for both players rather than alot for one and the other to lose respect.
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The brawl to brawl+ transition: falcon
- Thread starter Zeallyx
- Start date
Well that post is anything but productive. Shame on you.
This time you were actually proven to be wrong.
and @ Shanus:
I even made a thread about how B+ falcon will be better etc.
..So I am receptive of B+.
shanus
Smash Hero
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- Nov 17, 2005
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- 6,055
I know, it was more oriented at Hiza and one other player.
SmashBrother2008
Smash Lord
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I'll wait until Smash Bros. 4 comes out. Brawl+ adds too many different aspects to the game. All Brawl needs is a few numbers and statistics to be switch up in favor of balance and I'll only accept that fix if it's done by Nintendo.
..why only if its done by nintendo?
They aint gonna do anything any time soon.
and SSB4 isn't even sure to be made/released..
UzakiuzuG
Smash Journeyman
I think it would be nice to switch over, BUT, what if nintendo was to step involve because we are changing their game. I mean it's really fun don't get me wrong but Idk nintendo is being an a-word lately. Oh and to the person who says Falcon plays heavy which I consider slow and no way in blue heck he can be as fast as he was in Melee. I AGREE
Even though I know it seems like Falcon is running out of things to help him. Brawl seems to becoming towards it's stopping pt of At's. We should just stick with Brawl.
Even though I know it seems like Falcon is running out of things to help him. Brawl seems to becoming towards it's stopping pt of At's. We should just stick with Brawl.
I personally think it's too early to discuss much. The falcon of Brawl+ is MUCH better, and is definetly not broken (not until some sort of Sacred Combo is found) - but there are still arguments and discussions going on, opinionating that Falcon falls too fast, his Short Hop is too high, etc.
By the end of the multiple developments of Brawl+, every character will most likely be drastically different. Falcon still kicks *** right now in Brawl+.
KNEEEEEEEEE!
By the end of the multiple developments of Brawl+, every character will most likely be drastically different. Falcon still kicks *** right now in Brawl+.
KNEEEEEEEEE!
From what I hear, and the info I gathered, brawl+ is too good.
Now I just need a copy of twilight princess wii..
*ponders who he can borrow it from asap*
record+upload it please<3
Noodlehead
Smash Lord
i think some wii hackers may have created the backup loader already
UzakiuzuG
Smash Journeyman
Yeah what he said I believe they give you everything you need besides the Sd Card and reader.
Oh..well, that is too good.
thanks.
Imma look into this (again). ^_^
SmashBrother2008
Smash Lord
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The Wii is already about halfway through its lifecycle. Nintendo is already developing the Nintendo 6 and I'm sure they're also pondering what to do with thier future cash cow (SSB). I can imagine it being called "Super Smash Bros. Riot". I can hold off for 3-4 years to have a finished/balanced version of Smash without it being hacked.
You wonder why I don't like hacking. First of all, not everyone has the hacked copy. I want to be able to go online, to a friend's place or to any tourney and not have to worry "oh, crap.. they DON'T have the hacked version that I'm so used to. I guess I'll just have to watch." Second, hacking creates an ill representation who the characters are. Sakurai designed certain aspects of characters and item to best represent were they come from. Also, if I switch to another version because I think it's easier, I'm pretty much saying "I give up!". I can't let that happen with all the work and practice that I've done...
-- Brawl+, as good as it may be to many poeple, just doesn't seem right. The player plays the game and the maker makes the game... otherwise it's just breaking the fan following and just isn't 'pure'.
Blad01
Smash Lord
What do you pro-Brawl+ guys know about offense - defense balance ?
In Smash 64, it was not balanced : 90% offense or so...
In Melee, it was better, but offense was still favorised : 60% offense, 40% defense
In Brawl - when you know how to play and to space well (by example SH Bair, DI backwards with falcon) - the balance is good in my opinion. And you have to mindgame to find an opening, but i's not hard at all... The only thing is that projectiles are pretty powerful.... But still, it's not that bad at all. And yeah, you can't combo to punish a mistake severely... But you know what ? It brings more "mindgames" into play : If you want to string attacks to each others, you have to predict your opponent (airdodges etc); and you can try offensive mindgames without being punished heavily at the first little mistake.
In Smash 64, it was not balanced : 90% offense or so...
In Melee, it was better, but offense was still favorised : 60% offense, 40% defense
In Brawl - when you know how to play and to space well (by example SH Bair, DI backwards with falcon) - the balance is good in my opinion. And you have to mindgame to find an opening, but i's not hard at all... The only thing is that projectiles are pretty powerful.... But still, it's not that bad at all. And yeah, you can't combo to punish a mistake severely... But you know what ? It brings more "mindgames" into play : If you want to string attacks to each others, you have to predict your opponent (airdodges etc); and you can try offensive mindgames without being punished heavily at the first little mistake.
Darxmarth23
Smash Champion
I would like the balance in brawl.
I just want it faster. A faster speed would mean you would have to use your pure, adrenaline-rushed, reaction. It kinda gives you a thrill. And i enjoy it much more.
I am leaning more towards brawl + now...
:bandit:
shanus
Smash Hero
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- 6,055
Well vanilla brawl is like 30% offense, about 70% defense. The goal for us is to achieve some sort of balance as close to 50/50 as possible. We are trying to make a perfect balance for approaches where it is strictly a mindgame approach. A strong attack might make hitting the shield neutral, so the shield grab might work if the player attacks to move away, but if the player guesses this and goes for a jab grab, it might work if they went for said shield grab. If they delayed though slightly, and grabbed post jab, then they get the grab off. This is an example of trying to make it where both playstyles are equal options. While not feasible to make it perfect 50/50, we are trying to make both options viable. The key point is, we are trying to make this as balanced as possible, and not overwhelming in favor of one or the other. It is MUCH easier to camp in Brawl to the point that the person on offense is usually at a disadvantage.
And your quote on mindgames, all those worked in melee as well. People would try and DI the way they know would escape the knee for instance, you expect the DI and do a DJ uair instead. It works both ways. We have a Brawl+ back room located here on smashboards which we are populating with experienced competitive players to try and make the game as delicately balanced as possible and making tons of fun at the same time. Hope this helps.
UzakiuzuG
Smash Journeyman
Whos plays by mindgames? So you guys are telling me you all actually run foward then jump back and all that stuff?I rather have a game on the offensive side plus the other games where like chess. Everyone has their chance at first but if you make a false move, it just might cost you. Brawl is more of a defensive game.
(Like Knee said this game is really unbalanced).
(Like Knee said this game is really unbalanced).
Brawl is not balanced..at all.
fox vs pikachu, anyone?
but seriously, brawl is pretty unbalanced.
The top tier characters make the bottom tier characters not tourney viable.
thats unbalanced right there.
Blad01
Smash Lord
Yeah... I was talking about balance between offense and defense 
I meant essentially that defense was not THAt favorised, and that added to 'mindgamezz' offense was great in Brawl.
But... Yeah match-ups like Falcon vs Pikachu suck
[EDIT : Didn't see the others anwsers. Actually I don't really know melee, even if I understand how the game works as a whole (I play it sometimes... Trying to learn ^^)
But I still think that Brawl is not 70% defense
Let's say that's my opinion...]
I meant essentially that defense was not THAt favorised, and that added to 'mindgamezz' offense was great in Brawl.But... Yeah match-ups like Falcon vs Pikachu suck
[EDIT : Didn't see the others anwsers. Actually I don't really know melee, even if I understand how the game works as a whole (I play it sometimes... Trying to learn ^^)
But I still think that Brawl is not 70% defense
Let's say that's my opinion...]I see.Yeah... I was talking about balance between offense and defense
But... Yeah match-ups like Falcon vs Pikachu suck
[EDIT : Didn't see the others anwsers. Actually I don't really know melee, even if I understand how the game works as a whole (I play it sometimes... Trying to learn ^^)
But I still think that Brawl is not 70% defense
But one cannot seperate the two (offense/defense balance and overall balance).
As characters who can force approaches (aka projectile users, reach abusers etc.) have an advantage from scratch.
The top tier characters can somehow force an approach, either by projectiles, or they have 'wtf' attacks (snake's tilts, MK's moveset (lol) and GaW's Bair etc.).
As the projectiles give said advantage, and 'wtf' attacks are 'unbalanced' on their own (or else the wouldn't be 'wtf' attacks) makes brawl unbalanced. Overall, and defensive/offensive.
I'd say 70% defence..
but keep in mind, MK is something else lol
Oh.. I wanna play brawl+..
*goes look into it again*
shanus
Smash Hero
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Darxmarth23
Smash Champion
I play by mindgames. It ***** for me. I'm all about mindgames. Most of my kills are self destructs, stage spikes, or regular spikes.
Mind games work wonders. It will beat a totally aggresive playstyle about 85% of the time.
:bandit:
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
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balance = impossible. o.o all characters are and will be different. pikachu vs link in 64. pichu vs fox in melee. falcon vs metaknight in brawl. as soon as b+ tier list comes up (if there are tourneys a tier list should come along) then it will be the same
it is possible to probably get offense and defense to a near equal level but never 50/50. all the characters are too different. only way to maintain balance is for everything to be the same. ie: no items, fox only, final d
it is possible to probably get offense and defense to a near equal level but never 50/50. all the characters are too different. only way to maintain balance is for everything to be the same. ie: no items, fox only, final d
That was beautiful. 5 stars.
*favorites your vid*
I really wanna play brawl+ ;_;
MuBa
Smash Lord
While I agree that balance will never be 50/50 because of different character attributes and movesets, I do strongly disagree about the B+ tier list being the same. While I may not know what the tier list will look like until we get solid tournament results, but I am very sure that it will not look like Brawl's. Some characters greatly benefit from more speed, momentum, short hop, gravity, fast falls, shield stun, and much more.
We are currently buffing and nerfing characters so we can at LEAST achieve characters being able to compete in tournaments and standing a chance against one another.
Even if Brawl+'s tier list CLOSELY resembles Brawl's, at least the tiers won't be as separate (SS-S-A-B-C-D-E). But we won't let that happen. We've played all 3 games enough to understand how to balance this game even if it's through trial and error.
Everyday this game is being tested and proper feedback is given. We aren't like Nintendo who cares about the casual gamers just to make money, we care about making this game much more competitive and hope for you guys to enjoy the fighting game we've put so much effort into.
SmashBrother2008
Smash Lord
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Goodbye, Toknee. I guess we won't see you around the normal Falcon boards anymore.
Oh, and Player-3, it's "Riot" I'm deffinetly leaning toward Smash Bros. Riot. Place your bets now!
.Oh, and Player-3, it's "Riot" I'm deffinetly leaning toward Smash Bros. Riot. Place your bets now!
Dude, I'm not going anywhereGoodbye, Toknee. I guess we won't see you around the normal Falcon boards anymore
Oh, and Player-3, it's "Riot" I'm deffinetly leaning toward Smash Bros. Riot. Place your bets now!
I will keep playing normal brawl too man, I respect my roots, lulz ^_^
Although I think we need a new, better backroom (as in more lively) as we need to become a more effective group of people, who can get things done faster.
For that I apologize to ayaz for any negative thing I've said. We need to become an effective group, as we have the hardest time with the character we main. (hardest matchup in comparison etc.)
I will create (or someone else will, this doesn't matter) a new falcon backroom for us to get more **** done faster.
And we must all promise to post in there at least once a day, lol.
We must perfect the art of falcon, and we can do it.
In short, I'm not going anywhere. regular falcon boards<3 Now lets organize (more) :D
I seem to have dwelled away from the subject..
I will post this in the Q&A too.
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
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My apologies, I didn't mean the tier list would be the same in the fact falcon would be low, but that there would still be low tiers and mid tiers and top etc
shanus
Smash Hero
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There will always be tiers unless every character is the same. However the disparity between tiers can be substantially less, and the viability of a low tier can therefore be much greater.
Skip2MaLoo
Smash Lord
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Meh, tiers exist but I think only for the REALLY REALLY good characters (metaknight, d3, etc). Falcon's not low tier in brawl to me. Although I'm still sticking with brawl+ being a simplified version of melee (not a bad thing as I have played brawl+ only with one person). I tried asking the tourney host if I could bring a b+ set-up and he rejected the idea because he said it would be too confusing and what not. Can't wait to get my 64 fixed on a random note. I'll be bringing a 64 set-up to tournies ^_^
Stafy
Smash Journeyman
Captain Falcon's game is way different than Brawl+, so just make a stickied thread discussing his game there.
shanus
Smash Hero
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New matches up on my youtube plus a sweet mini highlight reel as well. Lots of sexy Brawl+ Falcon action going on there!
I've been livestreaming for the past few days using our in-development Beta 3.3 and decided to put together a mini combo vid of the clips collected (3 hours of live footage):
CLICK HERE FOR AWESOME
I've been livestreaming for the past few days using our in-development Beta 3.3 and decided to put together a mini combo vid of the clips collected (3 hours of live footage):
CLICK HERE FOR AWESOME
Revven
FrankerZ
Resurrection!!
There is only one character in the game who is push button receive bacon good.
G&W duh!!!
I <3 Falcon in B+.
He has everything he has in Brawl, like his jab fun, and first hit Nair fun, and then just add actual goodness...
He also has all of those blaring weaknesses which I love. His priority can still be exploited HEAVILY, and he has as much problems dealing with spammable projectiles as always. (well not always.. Smash 64 Pikachu comes to mind...)
I like to think of it this way:
Sakurai made Brawl. It was a lot like Melee. Captain Falcon *****. Too much. He dominated everybody zero to death. He played like his 64 self. Sakurai responded. He took away his priority. Falcon didn't care. He had histsun. All he needed was one hit to start ****. Sakurai responded. He took away Falcon's hitstun. Falcon still didn't care. He stole the hitstun from other characters. Sakurai responded. He took away all of the hitstun. Then gamers responded. We gave him back his hitstun. It was all he needed.
People need to try B+. If you don't like it, take it off of your Wii and Nintendo will never have to know that you just did something completely legal and that has existed for SO LONG and on their other systems too. (seriously Nintendo... all we did was make a Gameshark here... punish the people emulating Wii Ware or Virtual Console stuff, not us)
Zodac
Smash Journeyman
we need a real topic for falcon in B+ and his combo's
i tested these on mario in training mode with standard codeset (whatever one was converted for pal)
there was one isue, i believe training mode help does not reconise falcon dive as a true combo for some reason but im pretty sure the listed is un-escapable.
most/all of these were done from 0% i'm just giving an example of what he can do in brawl +
true combo's:
raptor boost strings
->Falcon Dive
->up-air
->neutral-air
->down-air (really low %'s)
->foward-air
->back air (should hit forgot to test it)
down throw strings
->falcon kick
->sliding up-smash (around 80ish%)
->raptor boost (maybe fake but still useful)
->KNEE (get a grab and get a guarenteed sweetspot knee, this is great for koing and can work at mid-high %, i think this will be huge in brawl +)
dash attack strings
->jab->grab->X throw
->turbo jab
up throw strings
->up air
->falcon dive (says its not true in traing help but i beg to differ)
down air strings
->turbo jab
->jab->grab->X throw
->up air (higher %?)
->up tilt
back air strings
->dash attack
->forced stand-up->falcon paaauuunchh!@!@
neutral air
->grab (probably way more nair strings)
+all the old strings like
jab, jab, grab (which is way more useful cause you can combo out of throws)
flubbed knee, jab, grab
and here is a "fake combo" i did (although some of it is true combo)
jab->jab->grab->down throw->dash attack->up-tilt->knee (higher %) or f tilt (lower %'s)
basically keep your combo's going with falcons amaing jab->grab, too good
i'm sure there is way more, ill probably be playing to 2 am again
AND THIS WAS ON TINY, FLOATY MARIO! imagine bowser (or falcon >.>) lol
i tested these on mario in training mode with standard codeset (whatever one was converted for pal)
there was one isue, i believe training mode help does not reconise falcon dive as a true combo for some reason but im pretty sure the listed is un-escapable.
most/all of these were done from 0% i'm just giving an example of what he can do in brawl +
true combo's:
raptor boost strings
->Falcon Dive
->up-air
->neutral-air
->down-air (really low %'s)
->foward-air
->back air (should hit forgot to test it)
down throw strings
->falcon kick
->sliding up-smash (around 80ish%)
->raptor boost (maybe fake but still useful)
->KNEE (get a grab and get a guarenteed sweetspot knee, this is great for koing and can work at mid-high %, i think this will be huge in brawl +)
dash attack strings
->jab->grab->X throw
->turbo jab
up throw strings
->up air
->falcon dive (says its not true in traing help but i beg to differ)
down air strings
->turbo jab
->jab->grab->X throw
->up air (higher %?)
->up tilt
back air strings
->dash attack
->forced stand-up->falcon paaauuunchh!@!@
neutral air
->grab (probably way more nair strings)
+all the old strings like
jab, jab, grab (which is way more useful cause you can combo out of throws)
flubbed knee, jab, grab
and here is a "fake combo" i did (although some of it is true combo)
jab->jab->grab->down throw->dash attack->up-tilt->knee (higher %) or f tilt (lower %'s)
basically keep your combo's going with falcons amaing jab->grab, too good
i'm sure there is way more, ill probably be playing to 2 am again
AND THIS WAS ON TINY, FLOATY MARIO! imagine bowser (or falcon >.>) lol