The brawl to brawl+ transition: falcon

[Zeallyx]

So yes. We cant deny the fact maining falcon isn't easy with all these top/high (heck even middle) tier characters around.
But still we do.

Maybe we should seriously consider brawl+.
I am not saying anyone has to go and play brawl+, no not at all, I just want some serious discussion if it is a wise descision to (permenantly) go from brawl to brawl+

Falcon is better in brawl+ from what I've seen, and as the brawl+ scene is growing, it can ultimatly become its own game, a game in wich we aren't dead last (I guess/hope)

I am considering trying brawl+ as it seems fun, and it has competitive potential.


We could own in brawl+..

please post your ideas, thoughts etc.

 

[shanus]

Trust me, falcon is SO much fun in Brawl+. The greatest thing about it is we are seriously trying to aim for a better, more balanced game, and have the tools to do so. I know once you start playing it, you won't want to go back.

With the latest implementation of momentum, falcon can chase better in the air and link more, new combos into the knee or yes, etc.

The hardest transition you will feel into Brawl+ will be the buffer window at the start. We have reduced to buffer window to 1 frame as it gives much more precision to your inputs, but still allows for jump instant aerials and all that goodness. However, when you play for the first 30 minutes or so, it feels a bit foreign & hard to tech.

If you have any questions, please feel free to PM me as I am one of the members of the Brawl+ Backroom here on smashboards and gladly will answer any questions.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

No thanks. I actually like the absense of wave dashing (why did it even get named?) in Brawl. I'm a purist. If it isn't made by Nintendo it doesn't count.

 

[MuBa]

No thanks. I actually like the absense of wave dashing (why did it even get named?) in Brawl. I'm a purist. If it isn't made by Nintendo it doesn't count.

Dude wavedashing is not in Brawl+

Give the game a chance.

 

[shanus]

No thanks. I actually like the absense of wave dashing (why did it even get named?) in Brawl. I'm a purist. If it isn't made by Nintendo it doesn't count.

There is no wavedashing. We make the following changes:

-Character specific modifications to Short Hop Heights, Full Jump Heights, and Gravity changes to optimize a character.

-Frame speed modifications to individual moves (i.e. more lag follow metaknights downsmash)

-Slight increase in hitstun to enable more combos.

-No tripping

-Heightened ability to dash dance

-More shield stun to balance offense and defense

-Character specific aerial lag reduction upon landing (akin to auto–L-cancelling)

-Momentum based upon dash speed entering the air

-and A LOT more other changes.

This is to balance the game and make it better and more competitive. Not to renew the feel of melee. You have a grossly wrong perception of what Brawl+ really is.

 

[Mit]

I don't so much like the track Brawl+ is on. Instead of changing the gameplay so much, all I wanted it to do was fix dumb things and glitches (tripping, port priority, infinite cape glitch, Sonic glitches, stuff like that), and after it accomplished all of that, try and balance the gameplay more by changing stuff like priorities and strengthening/weakening moves. So, it still plays like Brawl, but is more balanced and friendly for tournaments.

However it's seeking to be a different game more in the vein of Melee (atleast from what I've played, in terms of speed and hitstun, not wavedashing). I also think that for as much as it buffs Falcon, it buffs other characters as well, some characters even MORE. I think I was playing with like 9% hitstun, and I could do some fun stuff with Falcon, but my friend, who plays Yoshi? If he hit me with an utilt he could combo me up into the air from 0% to 80%, and he did it easily. It seems to introduce way too many broken combos to me, especially for me to play it a lot. I think I'd actually be more okay with it if those combos required wavedashing and complicated canceling and whatnot, like in Melee. It seems to me like everyone can play how really good players used to play Melee, with a fraction of the skill.

For now we just roll with no tripping and infinite replay saves.

 

[GHNeko]

If he hit me with an utilt he could combo me up into the air from 0% to 80%, and he did it easily.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. What.

0-80%? Come on. Really now? Thats just like someone telling me DK could 0-70% Marth before he could get out.

More than likely that's false. Even if Falcon is a fast faller, DI does exist. AND so does SDI. If he really got 0-80 on you, you were obviously doing something wrong.

 

[Red-Blue]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. What.

0-80%? Come on. Really now? Thats just like someone telling me DK could 0-70% Marth before he could get out.

More than likely that's false. Even if Falcon is a fast faller, DI does exist. AND so does SDI. If he really got 0-80 on you, you were obviously doing something wrong.

gtfo troll

<3 GHNeko

 

[MuBa]

Hey guys I think I found something useful!

A BRAWL+ FAQ
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=213744

Let's read together!

 

[Red-Blue]

Hey guys I think I found something useful!

A BRAWL+ FAQ
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=213744

Let's read together!

I'm an illiterate.

 

[Zeallyx]

This thread is for falcon mains to discuss a possible transition for some of us.
Cut the sarcasm, as this is not so much for info as it is for falcon mains to discuss the possible transition.

 

[Red-Blue]

I'm sooo bad at B+, but yes. Falcon is definitely better in Brawl+
But his SH is short. Too short for me liking, really. Not to mention, he plays really heavy.

 

[Icyo]

Brawl+ isn't even a seperate game. Plus going to Brawl+ will hurt more than it will help. Especially in Falcon's case.

 

[GHNeko]

Brawl+ isn't even a seperate game. Plus going to Brawl+ will hurt more than it will help. Especially in Falcon's case.

Explain. Please.

 

[Zeallyx]

Brawl+ isn't even a seperate game. Plus going to Brawl+ will hurt more than it will help. Especially in Falcon's case.

You couldn't be more wrong.

 

[Player-3]

i hate falcon in melee, and brawl+
i love both games
hate falcon in them.
that is all.

i play falcon in brawl because he isnt the stupid ******** combo ******* he is in b+ and melee


I play sonic in brawl+ (i love it)
ike is stupidly good in b+ considering all his attacks will keep you in hitstun long enough for him to follow up easily
>_>

 

[Zeallyx]

i hate falcon in melee, and brawl+
i love both games
hate falcon in them.
that is all.

i play falcon in brawl because he isnt the stupid ******** combo ******* he is in b+ and melee


I play sonic in brawl+ (i love it)
ike is stupidly good in b+ considering all his attacks will keep you in hitstun long enough for him to follow up easily
>_>

Is this another one of your troll posts?

if not, how is falcon beeing able to combo a bad thing..
its what makes him.

 

[Player-3]

Is this another one of your troll posts?

if not, how is falcon beeing able to combo a bad thing..
its what makes him.

no its not

i just dont like him in those games

its an opinion, never said it was a bad thing i said i dont like it

[:

plus hes too fast for me, my puny troll brain cant process that fast

 

[MuBa]

I don't understand the fact that why you guys don't like the Falcon in Brawl+.

He is a bad character overall in Brawl, if not then being bottom tier should be an eye opener. The whole point of Brawl+ is to make it a fun, competitive, and balanced game.

Falcon has pretty much moved away from the bottom tier. Please instead of making a bad stigmata over hacking stuff or what's official or not, why not have an open mind about change?

Besides, Falcon is awesome in Brawl+ and tournament worthy.

You can still play Brawl and Brawl+ simultaneously.

 

[Zeallyx]

no its not

i just dont like him in those games

its an opinion, never said it was a bad thing i said i dont like it

[:

plus hes too fast for me, my puny troll brain cant process that fast

why dont you like a better falcon..
and falcon is fast in brawl, too(second fastest if I recall correctly)..

 

[Lethon]

Brawl+ isn't even a seperate game. Plus going to Brawl+ will hurt more than it will help. Especially in Falcon's case.

I think he means that if you play Brawl+ Falcon excessively, you may get used to it and it could hurt your normal Brawl falcon if a tourney is coming up or something.


But yeah, Brawl + Falcon is way better. His Nair actually hits more grounded characters and more horizontal movement.

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

brawl+.. ah. its like putting flowers on doo doo (brawl being the doo doo). It's still ****. I just rather play melee. (before the flame starts tis a joke)
anyway, i wouldn't permanently go brawl+ but I do play it. brawl+ is very fun and it's like "melee for dummies" kind of XD auto cancels and what not. i like falcon being low tier though. you get a lot of respect and such for kicking *** and taking names with him at tournies. i dont play it much due to lack of people available for me to play in it and actually willing to play.

 

[Zeallyx]

I don't understand the fact that why you guys don't like the Falcon in Brawl+.

He is a bad character overall in Brawl, if not then being bottom tier should be an eye opener. The whole point of Brawl+ is to make it a fun, competitive, and balanced game.

Falcon has pretty much moved away from the bottom tier. Please instead of making a bad stigmata over hacking stuff or what's official or not, why not have an open mind about change?

Besides, Falcon is awesome in Brawl+ and tournament worthy.

..I started this thread because falcon will be better in brawl+..
offcourse I love falcon in brawl+, hence the thread.

Don't generalise.
There were only 2 people who dont seem to like brawl+ falcon (and those people dont like brawl+ overall, too)

 

[Player-3]

I don't understand the fact that why you guys don't like the Falcon in Brawl+.

He is a bad character overall in Brawl, if not then being bottom tier should be an eye opener. The whole point of Brawl+ is to make it a fun, competitive, and balanced game.

Falcon has pretty much moved away from the bottom tier. Please instead of making a bad stigmata over hacking stuff or what's official or not, why not have an open mind about change?

Besides, Falcon is awesome in Brawl+ and tournament worthy.

You can still play Brawl and Brawl+ simultaneously.

i love brawl and brawl+, i play them both
i played brawl+ on vietg's wii for a while, its awesome
i didnt make a bad stigma
>: i love b+ i just need a wii so i can play it..

why dont you like a better falcon..
and falcon is fast in brawl, too(second fastest if I recall correctly)..

but brawl is a slow game, hence falcon is still a slow character

 

[Zeallyx]

but brawl is a slow game, hence falcon is still a slow character

Ok..

I like my falcon fast and able to combo into the knee.

But, To each their own.

 

[shanus]

brawl+.. ah. its like putting flowers on doo doo (brawl being the doo doo). It's still ****. I just rather play melee. (before the flame starts tis a joke)
anyway, i wouldn't permanently go brawl+ but I do play it. brawl+ is very fun and it's like "melee for dummies" kind of XD auto cancels and what not. i like falcon being low tier though. you get a lot of respect and such for kicking *** and taking names with him at tournies. i dont play it much due to lack of people available for me to play in it and actually willing to play.

Melee for dummies? If you think L cancelling was tech skill then lol. High–level tech skill wasn't based on things like L-cancelling, which is a simple reflex which any half decent player would never miss. We decided to make it auto rather than being required because that is all it was, a reflex. I for some reason doubt you have ever played, considering it plays a bit faster than brawl, but tons more fun. And as the Brawl+ tournament scene is growing quickly, it too will probably become a popular side event if not popular main event. So I think you have some misconceptions as to first, the goal of Brawl+, and second, what is actually in it.

 

[Player-3]

Melee for dummies? If you think L cancelling was tech skill then lol. High–level tech skill wasn't based on things like L-cancelling, which is a simple reflex which any half decent player would never miss. We decided to make it auto rather than being required because that is all it was, a reflex. I for some reason doubt you have ever played, considering it plays a bit faster than brawl, but tons more fun. And as the Brawl+ tournament scene is growing quickly, it too will probably become a popular side event if not popular main event. So I think you have some misconceptions as to first, the goal of Brawl+, and second, what is actually in it.

Yarr, L canceling wasnt tech skill

teching was tech skill
i cant tech for **** in melee, i actually suck ***** at it


and @knee, to each his own indeed

you guys should play brawl+ though, its amazing

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

Melee for dummies? If you think L cancelling was tech skill then lol. High–level tech skill wasn't based on things like L-cancelling, which is a simple reflex which any half decent player would never miss. We decided to make it auto rather than being required because that is all it was, a reflex. I for some reason doubt you have ever played, considering it plays a bit faster than brawl, but tons more fun. And as the Brawl+ tournament scene is growing quickly, it too will probably become a popular side event if not popular main event. So I think you have some misconceptions as to first, the goal of Brawl+, and second, what is actually in it.

yeah..because i said l-canceling was tech skill and i also said i hated brawl+.

 

[Zeallyx]

Melee for dummies? If you think L cancelling was tech skill then lol. High–level tech skill wasn't based on things like L-cancelling, which is a simple reflex which any half decent player would never miss. We decided to make it auto rather than being required because that is all it was, a reflex. I for some reason doubt you have ever played, considering it plays a bit faster than brawl, but tons more fun. And as the Brawl+ tournament scene is growing quickly, it too will probably become a popular side event if not popular main event. So I think you have some misconceptions as to first, the goal of Brawl+, and second, what is actually in it.

^This.
Brawl+ seems to be the anwser to all the problems of us, falcon mains.
At least, thats how I see it.

And as the tournament scene is growing, brawl+ has quite some competitive potential, with falcon actually beeing tourny viable.

Yarr, L canceling wasnt tech skill

teching was tech skill
i cant tech for **** in melee, i actually suck ***** at it


and @knee, to each his own indeed

you guys should play brawl+ though, its amazing

Yes, I will defenatly try it when I get my hands on a copy of twilight princess wii.

 

[Darxmarth23]

I am totally neutrall on this debate.

Woo me.

 

[SmashBrother2008]

There is no wavedashing. We make the following changes:

-Character specific modifications to Short Hop Heights, Full Jump Heights, and Gravity changes to optimize a character.

-Frame speed modifications to individual moves (i.e. more lag follow metaknights downsmash)

-Slight increase in hitstun to enable more combos.

-No tripping

-Heightened ability to dash dance

-More shield stun to balance offense and defense

-Character specific aerial lag reduction upon landing (akin to auto–L-cancelling)

-Momentum based upon dash speed entering the air

-and A LOT more other changes.

This is to balance the game and make it better and more competitive. Not to renew the feel of melee. You have a grossly wrong perception of what Brawl+ really is.

Really? It's not trying to be a Melee 2.0? I guess I should have done my research. That sounds good... But I'm not the type of audience you're after. I only play games in thier pure form. Good luck with it, anyway.

 

[Player-3]

Really? It's not trying to be a Melee 2.0? I guess I should have done my research. That sounds good... But I'm not the type of audience you're after. I only play games in thier pure form. Good luck with it, anyway.

no its not a melee 2.0 at all, its really fun

but i like brawl for its slowness... because i have a chance to be good because i dont have to think so fast

 

[Ayaz18]

O wow


these boards are filled with people who think that anything that doesn't have to deal with Falcon in Brawl is satanic.


guys, Brawl+ IS FUN you shouldn't "consider" playing it.......if you want to play it, then play it. Do you play any other games besides brawl? Brawl+ is fun, I played it at Niko's house, it's fun. I find it engaging and a good game....... but it's NEVER going to become competitive, the community is built on teens holding tournaments in their parents basement. Unless MLG decides to supply moded Wii systems at tournaments, Brawl+ won't get anywhere. It's still a fun game you can play if you have a modded wii.....it's like saying should I rent Tales of Symphonia 2 or should I practice Brawl. DO WHATEVER YOU FEEL LIKE DOING!

Knee your making the Falcon boards sound like a Falcon cult.

 

[Player-3]

O wow


these boards are filled with people who think that anything that doesn't have to deal with Falcon in Brawl is satanic.


guys, Brawl+ IS FUN you shouldn't "consider" playing it.......if you want to play it, then play it. Do you play any other games besides brawl? Brawl+ is fun, I played it at Niko's house, it's fun. I find it engaging and a good game....... but it's NEVER going to become competitive, the community is built on teens holding tournaments in their parents basement. Unless MLG decides to supply moded Wii systems at tournaments, Brawl+ won't get anywhere. It's still a fun game you can play if you have a modded wii.....it's like saying should I rent Tales of Symphonia 2 or should I practice Brawl. DO WHATEVER YOU FEEL LIKE DOING!

Knee your making the Falcon boards sound like a Falcon cult.

Tales of Symphonia 2 is amazing, you should rent it.



MLG CANT support Brawl+ due to the fact they would be supporting hacking which is illegal.
i believe they would if they could

i know its completely legal but politicians are *******s and wont look at the facts so it doesnt really matter

 

[Ayaz18]

exactly


MLG can't make it competitive, it's too hard and illegal. Therefore it can't really be a competitive game.......which is ironic.

as for playing the game itself, go ahead.......... i'm not a game reviewer, and I don't think many are on this cite, so i'm not going to really force my opinion on others. Knee is trying to suggest that we play Brawl+ over Brawl...........it's a different game...........that's like saying we should all drop Falcon in Brawl, sell our wii's, buy a 360 and play competitve DMC 4


there's no logic in this thread

 

[Mit]

I think if Brawl+ was illegal, Smashboards wouldn't be allowing it guys... Also, politicians? What? You may violate a user agreement or something in hacking your Wii and installing homebrew on it, but it's certainly not anything punishable by law, especially if you 1. Own Smash Bros. Brawl, and 2. Don't use homebrew to emulate/play burned games.

On me getting combo'd 0-80 by Yoshi, believe me, I tried getting out of it. Yoshi has aerial combos in normal Brawl. Give him like, 3 times the hitstun in Brawl+, and they just get worse. He can start off utilting you atleast 2-3 times, upsmash you, then uair you atleast two times, three times if his jumps are timed perfectly. And yes, it further does not help that Falcon is so **** heavy due to the increased gravity/game speed.

Brawl+ is just not my way of seeing how you should enhance Brawl. I would much rather it be changed by nerfing/buffing certain characters' moves and changing priority, and doing stuff like increasing Link's recovery height or something. Not speeding up the game and adding hitstun.

And really, if a lot of people started playing this as seriously as people play normal Brawl, insane ridiculous combos would be found out, by characters who aren't Falcon, and he'd still definitely be lower tier than many other characters. The only reason he was high tier in Melee was because of his speed, but like someone's already said, speed is obviously not a factor if Ike can combo you.

 

[Hiza]

I cant believe im even getting involved here, due to how truly ill concieved this all is.

Brawl + Falcon is Melee Falcon with nicer graphics and more taunts. Come off it, if you want to play brawl plus with Doug, go get a copy of melee. He is way too easy to use in Brawl +,(start a combo, you win) He requires little practice of effort to kick *** with. Personally I think that brawl + does away with the things that make me want to use him in regular Brawl. Hes not good, he requires deadly metagame, and demands more of you than any other character in the game. Why spend all this time to get good in Brawl just to go play a push button get bacon version in Brawl +? I must be missing something.

Also, there is no way MLG will pick up Brawl +. I can see there being a + circuit, but not MLG. And @ Mit, if someone makes any kind of profit off of it, that would become illegal.

 

[GHNeko]

On me getting combo'd 0-80 by Yoshi, believe me, I tried getting out of it. Yoshi has aerial combos in normal Brawl. Give him like, 3 times the hitstun in Brawl+, and they just get worse. He can start off utilting you atleast 2-3 times, upsmash you, then uair you atleast two times, three times if his jumps are timed perfectly. And yes, it further does not help that Falcon is so **** heavy due to the increased gravity/game speed.

I still think you were doing something wrong. Ill believe it when I see it. Or better yet, when it happens to me personally.

Brawl+ is just not my way of seeing how you should enhance Brawl. I would much rather it be changed by nerfing/buffing certain characters' moves and changing priority, and doing stuff like increasing Link's recovery height or something. Not speeding up the game and adding hitstun.

We are buffing/nerfing, but changing priority is out of our power so we have to wokr around it.

And really, if a lot of people started playing this as seriously as people play normal Brawl, insane ridiculous combos would be found out, by characters who aren't Falcon, and he'd still definitely be lower tier than many other characters. The only reason he was high tier in Melee was because of his speed, but like someone's already said, speed is obviously not a factor if Ike can combo you.

And if people start finding stupid 64 combos, we'd fix that too.

----

I cant believe im even getting involved here, due to how truly ill concieved this all is.

Brawl + Falcon is Melee Falcon with nicer graphics and more taunts. Come off it, if you want to play brawl plus with Doug, go get a copy of melee. He is way too easy to use in Brawl +,(start a combo, you win) He requires little practice of effort to kick *** with. Personally I think that brawl + does away with the things that make me want to use him in regular Brawl. Hes not good, he requires deadly metagame, and demands more of you than any other character in the game. Why spend all this time to get good in Brawl just to go play a push button get bacon version in Brawl +? I must be missing something.

You really are. I think so. Falcon is still a character with ****ty priority. The reason why he's better is because he's faster, but that doesnt mean he cant get his *** handed to him by characters that can juggle since he's heavy and a FFer AND he can be outprioritized. Those are his weaknesses and they are easily manipluated and exploited IF you let them. He's good, but not push button recieve bacon good. That's MK. LOLOLOLOLMKJOKE.

But that's my opinion.

Also, if B+ falcon is Melee Falcon with nice graphics and what not, maybe the reason why he's easily is because he plays like his Melee counterpart which alot of Melee players know how to play. If you mained Falcon in melee, and B+ falcon is pretty much really similar to Melee falcon, maybe thats why B+ falcon is easy to play with, because you already know how to play with him. But this is nothing more than an assumption.

 

[Kishin]

It's more manly if you play a character knowing that the character is bad. I was under the impression that Falcon mains wanted more respect for Falcon as a character than winning.

 

[shanus]

I cant believe im even getting involved here, due to how truly ill concieved this all is.

Brawl + Falcon is Melee Falcon with nicer graphics and more taunts. Come off it, if you want to play brawl plus with Doug, go get a copy of melee. He is way too easy to use in Brawl +,(start a combo, you win) He requires little practice of effort to kick *** with. Personally I think that brawl + does away with the things that make me want to use him in regular Brawl. Hes not good, he requires deadly metagame, and demands more of you than any other character in the game. Why spend all this time to get good in Brawl just to go play a push button get bacon version in Brawl +? I must be missing something.

Also, there is no way MLG will pick up Brawl +. I can see there being a + circuit, but not MLG. And @ Mit, if someone makes any kind of profit off of it, that would become illegal.

You are so wrong on every level. First off, modding is not illegal, distribution of DVDs with Brawl ISOs on it with texture hacks is illegal! We don't do that though.

Now on to the gameplay, BRAWL+ FALCON DOES NOT PLAY LIKE MELEE FALCON. Plain and simple, a lot of the combos work that should work, now do with slightly more hitstun. Also, to whoever thinks the hitstun is that noticable, it sounds like you played a long time ago. The value is now .485 (brawl is at .4). Thats +8.5% hitstun. You probably played when it was 11.75% hitstun which allowed for stupidly good combos. 0-deaths are VERY rare. In fact, most combos in Brawl+ are in the 30-40% range and no more than that. It just gives many avenues of approaches and varieties in gameplay.

Also, duh @ MLG not hosting Brawl+ tourneys, but MLG doesn't mean anything to us really in the tourney scene. 99% of major tourneys are player held, and we have already had 5+ tournaments with 20-50 player turn-outs for Brawl+, and the codeset isn't even finalized yet! So please, don't speak that you think it can't be competitive, because the game is engineered to play as a more competitive and more balanced version of Brawl. Hence the name, Brawl+, not Melee2.0.

Overall, this thread reeks of players speaking before even getting experience, or even knowledge, in what Brawl+ offers. Please test before you post. Or at least be informed before you post. Thats all I'm really asking for here, is informed posts. Almost every other character specific board I've posted on has been receptive to Brawl+ besides the falcon boards. I don't know if its a difference in maturity, or what, but please post with some form of knowledge behind your posts.