The BlazBlue Thread. V-13 hates you! Edit: Now with gamertags! <3 See first post.

[Fizz-sama]

I love playing against skilled players that whoop my ***. I just save the replay and look at what I did wrong.

 

[Criosphinx]

I love Tager.

So much.

 

[DFEAR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBTpdR2AiWw

more inspiration for tager.

mike z tearing up the supposed best hakumen o.o.

why arent we all maining tager. and why is he still low tier!?

 

[Laijin]

Cause Tager actually sucks.
One person being good does'nt mean everyone is good with that character.

 

[Criosphinx]

Cause Tager actually sucks.
One person being good does'nt mean everyone is good with that character.

I'm pretty decent with him.

Anyone going to HERB? MM my Tager?

Edit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBTpdR2AiWw

more inspiration for tager.

mike z tearing up the supposed best hakumen o.o.

why arent we all maining tager. and why is he still low tier!?

/Uncomfortably Happy.

 

[GA Peach]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBTpdR2AiWw

more inspiration for tager.

mike z tearing up the supposed best hakumen o.o.

why arent we all maining tager. and why is he still low tier!?

...you know Tager has an advantage on that man, right? once magnitized, Haku-Men is in serious trouble...
besides, as Laijin said, Tager is just a bad character. i like how only Mike Z has been doing well in US tournies with Tager, and suddenly, he needs to not be low tier any more. Mike Z may be good, but Tager is underpowered.

 

[Luisthepanda]

Im not saying he shouldnt be low tier or something, but theres people other than MikeZ placing with him like Jan

 

[Curlz]

There's also people placing with Pokemon Trainer at Brawl tournaments but he's still low tier.

The tier list is dependent upon the character and not the player. Players who place with low tier characters are the reason for Anti-Tiers. Tager's overall matchups are bad and is an underpowered character which is why he remains low. How people use him is a different story.

 

[0megaZer0]

I have JUST heard of BB and I'm really looking to get into this!

 

[Dreadz18x]

camping doesnt equal zoning

v-13 zones.

rachel is better than v-13.

v-13 has holes in her game its much easier to get in on her. that is all

 

[GA Peach]

yeah, i agree that rachel may contend for the best spot, as i feel rachel is more well-rounded. but, for now, it seems nu holds the top spot. also, Mike Z has been getting scraped as of late. he had 3 impressive placings before sbo quals, but i think his competition has been figuring out Tager, sadly...

and, so far as pokemon trainer goes, only person i know placing well with him is Reflex...maybe i'm wrong.

 

[ZIO]

I love playing against skilled players that whoop my ***. I just save the replay and look at what I did wrong.

Oh my. I wish I had this game for that right there. I'm getting tired of losing without really knowing what I'm doing wrong other than I'm not moving fast enough.

 

[Winnar]

So what happened to scheduled BB rooms?

 

[CRASHiC]

Tager could be an amazing character. But he is screwed up the games engine. How? Let Serlin explain.

The makers of Guilty Gear just released a new game called BlazBlue. Evolution did feature a BlazBlue side tournament, with the top 2 players playing on stage on finals day. I mention this game because I wonder if it will replace Guilty Gear in next year's Evolution lineup. I will now tell you why this game is kind of a disaster, in my opinion. At least it's *easily* corrected, but I wonder if the developers will be willing to do it. The problem: throws are terrible.

Street Fighter 4 throws have 3 frames of startup (way too long compared to the 0 frame startup of SF2 and Guilty Gear). Also, you can tech (throw escape) and take zero damage, and you have plenty of time to tech. Compare this to SF2 where you can only reduce the throw damage by about 50%, or all Guilty Gears before Accent Core where you can't reduce throw damage at all. If you thought SF4 throws were ineffective though, you haven't seen anything yet!

How about 7 frames of startup on throws! Also, you have 13 frames to tech for zero damage. Also, if you enter the command to tech, even if you weren't thrown yet, you become unthrowable for the next 11 frames. Now, it's also true that once those 11 frames are over, there's another window (not sure how long, some say 12 frames, some say 24, I don't know) where you cannot tech throws at all. This is to prevent you from mashing throw tech. Solution: don't mash throw tech, just easily tech throws in the 13 frame window + 11 more frames of leeway. Better yet, easily jab throws out of their absurdly long startup time. Or jump, because pre-jump frames (the time it takes you to leave the ground after you hold up) are 3 or 4 frames, depending on character. So if you repeatedly jump, air attack, jump, air attack, etc, you actually can't be thrown because you're never in a throwable state long enough for these slooooow throws to work. On and by the way, teching a throw pushes you almost full screen away from the opponent for some reason.

It gets worse. Maybe you want to play the throw guy, Tager, to get some decent throws. Tough luck, because his throw startup on his two normal throws are 6 and 7 frames, too. He also has two special throws. The high damage one is 8 frame startup (even longer!) and the low damage, but long range one is 11 frames! It's true that frames 3-11 of that are invulnerable, but you can't use the throw as a reversal (Potemkin in ggxx can, Zangief in SF2 can) and the opponent can easily jump out because 11 frames is a long **** time.

Just for completeness, there's also a new system where you can throw the opponent out of hitstun or blockstun. This is kind of a non-feature because the opponent has 27 frames (not a typo) to tech out of that. It's possible to make a sandwich or pitch a tent, then tech the throw in that case. Why are these developers so afraid of anyone throwing each other? I've played jaby, jab games before (CvS2) and I've played games where throws are good (SF2 and GGXX) and throws being good is just better all around. More offense, more mixups that matter, more strategy. Dear Arcsys: please implement 0 frame startup throws and damage scaling to reduce post-throw combos if necessary. Thanks. I'd hate to have to play this no-throw game as it is at Evolution 2010.

given, Serlin does not like GG or BB

And now for some boring stuff about Guilty Gear and BlazBlue, followed by exciting stuff about Soul Calibur.

GG and BB >> SF and SC

 

[Zero_Gamer]

Put it in the OP!

So what happened to scheduled BB rooms?

I am hosting nightly BB friendlies at 9:00 PM eastern. This room will be invite only. So add me on friends list and I'll invite you. Send me a message if you want to reschedule and we'll work things out.

XBL: X_the_Derp



Also, didn't realize the frame data for grabs was so... meh... Gurren Tager is still fun.

And Tager ditto mm at Herb, Criosphinx, BRING IT!

 

[Criosphinx]

With all due respect to Sirlin, Tager's throws, even at the professional level, are not teched extremely often. Many of his command grabs are extremely difficult to tech.

 

[DFEAR]

With all due respect to Sirlin, Tager's throws, even at the professional level, are not teched extremely often. Many of his command grabs are extremely difficult to tech.

remember if u grab any character before they grabs u and ur grab misses u cannot tech anything for 7-11+ frames. same goes for if u try teching a throw before the game engine allows u too. so make sure u are frame precise when it comes to teching...never mash B+C.

 

[NES n00b]

Tager could be an amazing character. But he is screwed up the games engine. How? Let Serlin explain.



given, Serlin does not like GG or BB



GG and BB >> SF and SC

Sirlin likes GG. I don't get where you got the impression he doesn't.

Edit: Also command throws cannot be teched unless you were in hitstun. I don't even own the game and I know that.

 

[nevershootme]

Sirlin likes GG. I don't get where you got the impression he doesn't.

Edit: Also command throws cannot be teched unless you were in hitstun. I don't even own the game and I know that.

doesn't apply to all games, try teching Zangief's SPD

unless you were mentioning BlazBlue, then yea. wouldn't it be that the tech window is super tighter than the basic throw...

 

[NES n00b]

doesn't apply to all games, try teching Zangief's SPD

unless you were mentioning BlazBlue, then yea. wouldn't it be that the tech window is super tighter than the basic throw...

No command throws in Blazblue cannot be teched unless it is part of some combo in which the time window is stupidly large. Probably can boil some water and make some ramen then eat it at that point. It was like half a second or something?

 

[GA Peach]

yeah, throws kinda suck in BB, which is unfortunate. throws are an intrical part of mixups in fighting games, but since this game, like every other new game, is geared towards newer players, they want to limit offensive options that serious players could take advantage of. it is VERY hard to do normal grabs in BB...

then again, i'm not sure if i want the 0-frame grab back again like in ST, either. i also like the chance to be able to get out of a grab and take no damage. but, the window should be smaller(i.e. 3rd strike).

 

[Winnar]

No command throws in Blazblue cannot be teched unless it is part of some combo in which the time window is stupidly large. Probably can boil some water and make some ramen then eat it at that point. It was like half a second or something?

27 frames, so nearly half a second.

Sorry I wasn't on last night. I think I'll be on tonight, though. Probably.

Also 0 frame startup inescapable grabs are stupid. Especially grabs that lead into combos.

Stuuuuuupid.

Edit - Grandmother just died, I'll be going to her funeral for the next few days.

whoo

 

[Laijin]

Okay I need some clarification.
When the two pink exclaimation marks appear, I'm assuming thats the 27 frame window for grab techs?
And when the green one appears I'm guessing thats my 11 frame window?

 

[Winnar]

When you try to grab someone and the green exclamation mark appears they have a 13 frame window to tech out of it. That's just under 1/4 of a second.

When you try to grab someone out of a combo and the two purple exclamation marks appear your opponent has 27 frames to tech out, or nearly half a second. Basically your opponent has twice as long a window to tech out of the grab.

The average reaction time is 215 ms according to this source. That's roughly 1/5 of a second.

So then there's 1/20 of a second leeway between when the average person is able to react and the maximum allotted time to react on normal grabs and a 2/5 second leeway on combo grabs. Interesting.

That seems like a reasonable way to do things, but I'm not sure that the combo grabs should have longer tech frames. It seems kind of unnecessary since the only thing you'll probably be doing while you're getting combo'd is waiting for the grab or ukemi.

I dunno, just me thinking about stuff.

 

[nevershootme]

here's an interesting article posted by Sirlin

BlazBlue: Throws Are Bad

The makers of Guilty Gear just released a new game called BlazBlue. Evolution did feature a BlazBlue side tournament, with the top 2 players playing on stage on finals day. I mention this game because I wonder if it will replace Guilty Gear in next year's Evolution lineup. I will now tell you why this game is kind of a disaster, in my opinion. At least it's *easily* corrected, but I wonder if the developers will be willing to do it. The problem: throws are terrible.

Street Fighter 4 throws have 3 frames of startup (way too long compared to the 0 frame startup of SF2 and Guilty Gear). Also, you can tech (throw escape) and take zero damage, and you have plenty of time to tech. Compare this to SF2 where you can only reduce the throw damage by about 50%, or all Guilty Gears before Accent Core where you can't reduce throw damage at all. If you thought SF4 throws were ineffective though, you haven't seen anything yet!

How about 7 frames of startup on throws! Also, you have 13 frames to tech for zero damage. Also, if you enter the command to tech, even if you weren't thrown yet, you become unthrowable for the next 11 frames. Now, it's also true that once those 11 frames are over, there's another window (not sure how long, some say 12 frames, some say 24, I don't know) where you cannot tech throws at all. This is to prevent you from mashing throw tech. Solution: don't mash throw tech, just easily tech throws in the 13 frame window + 11 more frames of leeway. Better yet, easily jab throws out of their absurdly long startup time. Or jump, because pre-jump frames (the time it takes you to leave the ground after you hold up) are 3 or 4 frames, depending on character. So if you repeatedly jump, air attack, jump, air attack, etc, you actually can't be thrown because you're never in a throwable state long enough for these slooooow throws to work. On and by the way, teching a throw pushes you almost full screen away from the opponent for some reason.

It gets worse. Maybe you want to play the throw guy, Tager, to get some decent throws. Tough luck, because his throw startup on his two normal throws are 6 and 7 frames, too. He also has two special throws. The high damage one is 8 frame startup (even longer!) and the low damage, but long range one is 11 frames! It's true that frames 3-11 of that are invulnerable, but you can't use the throw as a reversal (Potemkin in ggxx can, Zangief in SF2 can) and the opponent can easily jump out because 11 frames is a long **** time.

Just for completeness, there's also a new system where you can throw the opponent out of hitstun or blockstun. This is kind of a non-feature because the opponent has 27 frames (not a typo) to tech out of that. It's possible to make a sandwich or pitch a tent, then tech the throw in that case. Why are these developers so afraid of anyone throwing each other? I've played jaby, jab games before (CvS2) and I've played games where throws are good (SF2 and GGXX) and throws being good is just better all around. More offense, more mixups that matter, more strategy. Dear Arcsys: please implement 0 frame startup throws and damage scaling to reduce post-throw combos if necessary. Thanks. I'd hate to have to play this no-throw game as it is at Evolution 2010.

 

[vZakat]

Yo, I just started playing this a few days ago and I like it a lot. I've been using my brother's XBL account (BboySpaz) and I'll add everyone here on his friends list while I'm home. I main Rachel by the way.

 

[Winnar]

here's an interesting article posted by Sirlin

Already posted just one page back, it's what we were talking about.

Thanks though.

Edit - Are we still on for that BB session tonight? :O

Edit 2 - Guess not, but I played anyway. My findings: This game...is AMAZING

AMAZING, I say! Every time I think "Meh BB's alright, but it's starting to get stale. Perhaps those comparing it to TvC are correct?" I go and actually play the game and am completely blown away all over again.

I love this game <3

 

[DFEAR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx0SyVXGwg4
would indeed make a beastly ringtone xD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGW8L61KzAU&feature=related
.:full song:.

 

[Zero_Gamer]

Sorry, I'm not hosting nightlies until tomorrow. Big tournament going on...

vZagat, let's have Rachel dittos... lol

 

[Winnar]

****...I lost twice in a row to the same guy in ranked matches.

I should have won both times. :|

I broke his guard when he had like almost no health and instead of doing a simple 6C to finish him off Hakumen decides to jump and then dash back.

Wat.

 

[Fizz-sama]

I'll update the first page with the new gamertag's listed later today.

 

[Winnar]

Thanks Fizz :D

 

[Fizz-sama]

Havin' a BB room up on the PSN right now if anyone wants to jump in. PSN is Fizz-sama.

Edit: Wow...I knew I sucked, but didn't realize that much, XD.

 

[Luisthepanda]

Tager Vs Tager Should Be At Every Finals No Matter What God **** Awesome!!!! Too Good!!! O_o Argh!!!!
Isuyaru too beast, if only the game allowed me to tech lol too good.

 

[Fizz-sama]

Sorry to have disbanded the room like that, but I didn't know of any other way. Regardless, GG's guys. You all were beastin' me pretty hardcore, but I appreciate it and I'll learn from those losses. Good stuff.

 

[DFEAR]

^ fizz is by far the best person at adapting. took him a round to adjust. too beast.

Isuyaru, u sir are beast. i have 0 carl experience, i did not know how to approach or how to runaway lol. u are so god **** awesome! O_< my god, (looks up how to setup carl into 6cloop o.o)

btw that tager vs tager match will be uploaded for all to see. luis, me, couple friends were all like OH OH OOOOOOHHHHH during it. too epic.

 

[ZIO]

When I do get this game.... Is there going to be anyone left for me to play against online? I'll be getting the XBX version. It'll be a while before I get it only because paying for classes have severely drained me. :.

 

[Mike G]

I'll be getting this game soon.

PSN: MastaChen. but if you see me on its not me but my uncle lol i'll be with my ps3 once again in about a week.

 

[Laijin]

Isuyaru is good.
I have no idea how to fight his Carl. lol.
I'll play you guys sometime this week.

 

[Zeu$]

**** who knew smashboards had a blazblue thread.

I too played this isuyaru in a first to 5 game. he beat me like 5 to 2. I felt pretty good about that since that was the first carl I'd ever played. he then preceded to pull out a gay ***(but good) nu on me lol.

if anyone is up for some games the PSN is WhiteDahlia.