The BlazBlue Thread: all the imports!

[Spelt]

The problem with Ragna in CS was that he was extremely autopilot and people could do crazy 4-5k midscreen meterless combos extremely easily. I was able to do the double belial edge combo on my first try. Tao's loops and combos take more technical skill and practice. You have no idea how long it took me to learn taunt loops, and I still couldn't really do taunt loops consistently near the end of CS's life.

Now in CS2 Ragna's combos aren't super easy and he takes quite a bit of skill to use properly. Most characters do very little damage midscreen. 2k combos midscreen, 4k combos in the corner, 5-6k combos with heat. That's pretty on par with the rest of the cast, he definitely doesn't need to do more. Ragna isn't supposed to play like Tao or Valkenhayn. Hell, they're not even supposed to play like each other.

Also, dead spike is already a godlike move. It has huge reach, breaks a primer, catches rolls, on counter hit/air hit it can lead into nasty combos, and it's a great corner carry tool. It doesn't need to be buffed anymore imo.

 

[Kuraudo]

Yeah, I get all that. Appearance-wise I was a fan of the Double Belial Edge and Ragna's playstyle in the original CS. That's just a personal thing though. Can't say I'm complaining about CS2 when I still find that he's awesome to play as even with the difficulty boost. It's just to me I feel that a dash-cancellable Dead Spike would benefit him greatly. Of course, timing the 5D to Dead Spike midscreen still takes some timing and it's not auto-pilot, but landing that 5C is so silly at times. ESPECIALLY online where you can't even begin to dream of getting those strings unless you breath the game.

Guess I am asking for it to be easier, but I definitely don't want all the challenge sucked out of it at the same time.

That, and people like Hazama or Makoto are landing BS in the corner on the amount of damage they can do by comparison. And Ragna's limited automatically by bursts alone so those 5-6k combos are even MORE situational for him because you burn 50 heat for nothing if the opponent doesn't burst. It's a game of chess for sure, and I know it all applies to everyone, but imo, Ragna's high-damaging combos are rare and inbetween, it feels like. He's averaging 2500-3000 in most situations without counters or fatals, and lots of his attacks don't come out as quickly as others do that can just get a nice hit confirm and go for the big combo.

I know I'm no hot shot at this game, but I guess this is just from my perspective on the whole situation. We all want our favorite characters to be good. And Ragna still is obv, just with a few "blargh"s inbetween.

Ah, and I was mostly talking about Tao's other loop she's got in CS2. I'm no good with her terms or whatever, but the one where she juggles you in the air a good few times, most times until she's hit 3k and then gets the free 4000+ from her aerial combos. It seems so easy to get the hit confirm and while I'm sure it's a lot of practice and skill for the timing of it, the fact that Tao can go into it from seemingly just about ANYTHING?

idk, it is kind of dwarving when Ragna's supposed to be the definitive rushdown type, but Tao and Valk run pressure circles all day and faster it feels like.

And yes, I spent a lot of my time getting bodied by a really good Tao player that didn't just rely on online shenanigans. XD He got the hit confirms and he was pulling the beast combos. Forget his name but he mods the Tao boards on dustloop actually. Fun matches regardless, especially since I learn something new every day.

QQ? lol a little. only difference is i'm still playing and practicing. /crosses fingers for dash cancellable Dead Spike for CS2+ anyway

I should play more. The only game I'm competent in is Smash. Don't devote enough time to the more traditional fighter. x.x

[EDIT]

Yeah, Dead Spike is already an awesome move, definitely. I just think that the midscreen link between a 5D (first) -> Dead Spike -> 5C should be a little more forgiving. If it sacrificed catching rolls or something, I'd be for it.

 

[Spelt]

Yeah, I get all that. Appearance-wise I was a fan of the Double Belial Edge and Ragna's playstyle in the original CS. That's just a personal thing though. Can't say I'm complaining about CS2 when I still find that he's awesome to play as even with the difficulty boost. It's just to me I feel that a dash-cancellable Dead Spike would benefit him greatly. Of course, timing the 5D to Dead Spike midscreen still takes some timing and it's not auto-pilot, but landing that 5C is so silly at times. ESPECIALLY online where you can't even begin to dream of getting those strings unless you breath the game.

Well, you shouldn't judge combo difficulty online. It'll get easier the more you practice though, even online.

That, and people like Hazama or Makoto are landing BS in the corner on the amount of damage they can do by comparison. And Ragna's limited automatically by bursts alone so those 5-6k combos are even MORE situational for him because you burn 50 heat for nothing if the opponent doesn't burst. It's a game of chess for sure, and I know it all applies to everyone, but imo, Ragna's high-damaging combos are rare and inbetween, it feels like. He's averaging 2500-3000 in most situations without counters or fatals, and lots of his attacks don't come out as quickly as others do that can just get a nice hit confirm and go for the big combo.

Well ... that's why Hazama and Makoto are top tier, lol. Ragna's limited by bursts just as much as anyone else. If makoto gets a really good combo starter and hit confirms it most likely people are gonna burst out. She has some really damaging combos that rely on spending meter near the start as well. Like 236236d combos where they only do the 2 first hits then continue the combo, or parry combos which always require a rapid.

Honestly, you should look at it less as "Damn. I just wasted 50 heat." and more as "Oh, cool. I just made my opponent use one of their bursts (and possible got rid of half their primers)."

Plus, after you use blood kain you still get the moves buffs even if they burst out, while RC combos don't get that liberty.

Ah, and I was mostly talking about Tao's other loop she's got in CS2. I'm no good with her terms or whatever, but the one where she juggles you in the air a good few times, most times until she's hit 3k and then gets the free 4000+ from her aerial combos. It seems so easy to get the hit confirm and while I'm sure it's a lot of practice and skill for the timing of it, the fact that Tao can go into it from seemingly just about ANYTHING?

She can only reach near 4k with fairly meaty starters. CH j.d, 3c when the opponent is RIGHT next to them, or else she can't follow up at all, etc.

She can do the loop off of pretty much any start but most do significantly less damage. If started from 2a/5a it's only going to be doing around 2k, which is pretty standard damage.

idk, it is kind of dwarving when Ragna's supposed to be the definitive rushdown type, but Tao and Valk run pressure circles all day and faster it feels like.

Well he's not THE definition of a rushdown character. He's just ... a rushdown character. It's not like Arcsys just randomly went "Oh. Ragna is going to be a rushdown character, but he's going to be a BAD rushdown character." He's not as good as some of the others but that's not because of his character persona or anything, it's just because his balance changes didn't end up holding as well as other's did. And he's still GOOD, he can pretty much hold his own against the whole cast, just not as well as some others.

Yeah, Dead Spike is already an awesome move, definitely. I just think that the midscreen link between a 5D (first) -> Dead Spike -> 5C should be a little more forgiving. If it sacrificed catching rolls or something, I'd be for it.

So you're gonna sacrifice a positive character trait for leniency on a combo?

Really, the combos will get easier the more you practice.

 

[Kuraudo]

I could always be selfish and just say, "**** it all. Ragna gets his Double Belial Edge AND Dead Spike/5D combos AND soft wall bounce straight punch. 4/5/6k combos universally all around without heat. with dash-cancelled Dead Spike and catching rolls."

but that would make him banned. LOL

--

In all seriousness, I do agree with you on all fronts except for the Tao thing. hard for me to keep track, but he kept getting the solid 3/4k and + on his loop to the aerial combo finishers, NOT counting !! throws that work/don't work based on your reaction timing. But yeah, you're right though. And I wasn't judging combo difficulty from online. XD It's hard online at first regardless.

I spent a good couple hours just SOLELY trying to get Challenge 7 down. I can link the 5D to Dead Spike mid-screen. But most times I'm either out of range of the dash to 5C, or whatever. But whenever I try to do another little mini dash to get the first hit of 5D as it shows in the demonstration of the combo, I always come out with either a 6D or whatever because I'm not fast enough to do a rapid double tap of the stick to a 5D all of a sudden to a 214D. lol

In the end though, it is what it is. Practice makes perfect.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Oddly, I'm having more difficulty with playing against good CSII Ragnas than I did in CSI. It wasn't too bad at first, but when people started adjusting to the new metagame, holy **** I started getting wrecked.

 

[Spelt]

Most tao's don't go into the loop unless started off of the better hits, which is why they usually end with high damage. For the less damaging hits, they usually just do a simple ground combo ending with some sort of reset attempt.

But yeah, sometimes combos just don't work altogether because of spacing problems. :/

Oddly, I'm having more difficulty with playing against good CSII Ragnas than I did in CSI. It wasn't too bad at first, but when people started adjusting to the new metagame, holy **** I started getting wrecked.

Lol me too. I get bodied by dead spike, especially in the corner.

 

[Kuraudo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJZInsw9btk

lol at top rated comment

 

[Darky-Sama]

I lol'd. I think that comment has more 'likes' than most of Lady Gaga's videos.

 

[Scamp]

Oh whoops. For some reason when I saw "CS1" I was thinking "CT". Tager still sucks regardless, everyone agrees.

I really don't want another GG though. I just want BB to be less new-user friendly.

GG is BB if you make it less new-user friendly. In a nutshell, anyway. So, logically IMO, if you want BB to be less new-user friendly then you want a new GG.

GG bursts were cool, imo. You build them over time in a match and you gained them faster with lower health. Bursts are (or at least seem) faster than BB's. Bursts were grab-able and characters can't do anything after a failed burst until they reached the ground. If it worked, then they're fine.

BB's bursts are cool too though (the latest ones at least).

More specifically bursts in GG are air-grab-able and not just grab-able. You should also mention that a gold burst gives you full meter and not the spinny combo starter thingy you get in BB. I like that way more.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Good games, Spelt. A bit laggy, but I can tell your Jin's gotten a lot better; even with the lag making you drop combos. And wtf Rachel demolishing my characters. You should really stick with maining her. lol

 

[Spelt]

GG is BB if you make it less new-user friendly. In a nutshell, anyway. So, logically IMO, if you want BB to be less new-user friendly then you want a new GG.

Not really...
It only really needs a few minor changes. Most have already happened.
That wouldn't make it another GG.
Why would we even want 2 games that are almost exactly the same? They've already even expressed their interest in making a new GG anyways. Blazblue's mechanics are for the most part fine, just because all of the mechanics aren't exactly like what they were in GG doesn't make them bad.

I see a bunch of people complaining about the tech/grab/etc systems on dustloop but nobody ever brings up a good reason why they need to be fix besides "that's not how they worked in guilty gear."

So much

Good games, Spelt. A bit laggy, but I can tell your Jin's gotten a lot better; even with the lag making you drop combos. And wtf Rachel demolishing my characters. You should really stick with maining her. lol

Sorry, my internet seems a bit off today. :S
Thanks, and you too!
I can tell you've gotten better too, especially your lambda.

I will, I just kinda steer towards playing jin a lot because I feel more comfortable with him.
Slowly working on my rachel though. Maybe i'll feel solid with her too by the time + comes out, lol.

 

[Turazrok]

Y u no buff rachel ark works.

 

[Minato]

Y u no buff rachel ark works.

Maybe no news is good news? Kinda like how it was for Noel in CS2's loketests.
If she stays the way she's at while all the characters above her are getting nerfed, that's pretty good too.

 

[Kuraudo]

so I played some offline CS2 s'more with a friend. Save for practicing Dead Spike midscreen combos, I'm starting to remember just how terrible online is and what a bad taste it leaves in my mouth. LOL

 

[Lythium]

Noel, you so OP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgY0kyMdinA

 

[Spelt]

why would anyone use that anyway?

It only leads to like 3k midscreen.
Terrible.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Noel, you so OP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgY0kyMdinA

Ah....the greatness...*wipes tear*

 

[sakuraZaKi]

Jin's car is a nii-san.

 

[Minato]

Jin's car is a nii-san.

You still enjoy that lame joke. XD

 

[LivewiresXe]

I swear that's gonna turn into one of those "my other car is a..." or "my other shirt is a..." shirt things at some point, lmao.

 

[Kuraudo]

http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/974732/angry-armor-armpits-asymmetrical_clothing-black_le

Best Noel/Mu-12 picture I have EVER seen. If they somehow combined their gameplay styles in the third BlazBlue whenever we get it, that'd be so hype.

 

[Wave⁂]

Goddamn Noel-12 doesn't wear much clothes

 

[Rutger]

Didn't Noel loose her guns at the end of CS?

I think we might see some big changes to the characters in BBX, when we go to Ikaruga.

And we'll get a Ragna/Tao team character that will function like the Melty team characters.

And it'll be awesome.


/speculation

 

[Minato]

http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/974732/angry-armor-armpits-asymmetrical_clothing-black_le

Best Noel/Mu-12 picture I have EVER seen. If they somehow combined their gameplay styles in the third BlazBlue whenever we get it, that'd be so hype.

Wow, that's a pretty awesome picture.

 

[Spelt]

Goddamn Noel-12 doesn't wear much clothes

mu-12 doesn't wear much clothes.

BB is all about the fan service.

 

[Wave⁂]

Didn't Noel loose her guns at the end of CS?

Is it possible for Noel to lose her guns? She sort of just "summons" them from thin air in one of her intro sprite animations, doesn't she?

 

[Spelt]

Well, they broke, or something.

 

[Zajice]

Something about needing them to become Mu or something.

I wouldn't try to understand the BB plot.

 

[Lythium]

Noel is the true possessor of the Azure, and her emotions broke her guns which had a limiter to keep her in check. Unleashing Mu, which is Noel's true form after fusing with the Azure.

So, Noel is Mu when consumed by the Azure or some **** like that. Mu is Noel when she's not on her period.

 

[Rutger]

Once you've seen enough anime, you realize BB's story is pretty straitforward.

It's Type-Moon + Trigun + more shonen-niss.

We're in the training arc now.

 

[Spelt]

That's exactly why I don't watch anime.

The plots are dreamed up by a ballpit full of 7 year olds on crack.

 

[Lythium]

I'm okay with that. :3c

 

[Spelt]

Well, on a different topic, I just played some Ranked Matches.

These are the characters I fought against:
7 Noels
1 Ragna
1 Tager
1 Tsubaki

 

[Rutger]

PSN is infested with Hazamas.


Anyone want to play?
PSN of course.

 

[Lythium]

Daaang, I would if I was at home.

 

[Rutger]

Daaang, I would if I was at home.

I'll probably be willing to play for a couple more hours.

I kind of want to get away from ranked matches, it might make me to want to get better with my characters if I'm not fighting silly matches. I think I will try to play people here more often.

And maybe make use of that Dustloop account I have. :/

 

[LivewiresXe]

I might play some online later. Depends on some things and how comfortable I am with my stick. Also, you should make use of that Dustloop account. Informative group of people there. Even though Circuitous seems...a bit uptight.

 

[Minato]

If anyone sets up a lobby, can I join in? I want to see if online works for me. Training mode and stuff does, but not arcade.

 

[Rutger]

This is because your PS3 isn't working correctly, right?

Yeah I can try.

 

[Minato]

This is because your PS3 isn't working correctly, right?

Yeah I can try.

Actually yeah, never mind. It's having issues again but at the very start on trying to load the disc.
Oh well, I guess I can try it another day.