The BlazBlue Thread: all the imports!

[Lythium]

Guys, Tager will be forever bottom until they give him Potemkin stuff. And it's not even because he's super bad. It's more like he's a great character cast in a game against excellent characters.

Also, Yaya, what's the point in bashing a game you don't even play?

 

[Rutger]

Tager is always going to have issues when there are characters with Unlimited Blade Works going on.

I can't see Tager becoming good as he is now without becoming overpowered or really changing how he plays.

 

[Lythium]

I agree that Tager's options against zoning are indeed terrible, but he does okay against the traditional zoners (for a grappler). He has tools to get past zoning attempts that root the user in place. His really bad zoning matchups are against the characters who can zone while moving, like Mu and Hazama. Double jump would go a long way, and faster walk speed would make those matchups more tolerable, but they wouldn't really make him much more viable.

What really holds him back are his bad matchups against characters that have no business winning easily against grapplers. Logically, Tager should destroy Tsubaki, Bang, Jin, Platinum, Noel, Makoto, and Tao. They all need to play in his space, but because he doesn't have a solid safe way to escape their pressure (like a good 5A), they get to run all over him. No amount of mobility buffing will solve the problems he has in those matchups.

I imagine balancing Tager is surprisingly tricky. So, they never go overboard with him ever.

 

[Wave⁂]

Also, Yaya, what's the point in bashing a game you don't even play?

Welcome to the internet.

 

[Scamp]

Was Tager the worst in CS1? I thought it was Hakumen.


Anyway, I say give him a Heavenly Tager Buster and he'd be fine.

 

[Thino]

Tager should get a air grab

 

[Lythium]

Welcome to the internet.

Oh, right.

Was Tager the worst in CS1? I thought it was Hakumen.

Uh, Hakumen was pretty good in CS1.

 

[Wave⁂]

Tager with an air command throw? That'd be hilarious

 

[Jam Stunna]

Looks like litchi is getting hit really hard.
I didn't think she was that big of a problem. Definitely much better than she was in cs1.

I don't think they even have a solid idea of how they want her to play like yet...

I'm just...sigh. I'm really considering not playing this game anymore.

 

[Rutger]

Lythium, your Kohaku avatar makes me jealous.

I don't have access to my old Kohaku avatars right now, I'd have to make a new one.

 

[Minato]

I'm just...sigh. I'm really considering not playing this game anymore.

Remember that people thought she was going to be bad in CS2 because of the changes.
I think people should just wait it out considering they do multiple builds in the loketests.

 

[Rutger]

People thought Makoto was going to be bad in CS2 as well...

And Hazama...

 

[Spelt]

I agree that Tager's options against zoning are indeed terrible, but he does okay against the traditional zoners (for a grappler). He has tools to get past zoning attempts that root the user in place. His really bad zoning matchups are against the characters who can zone while moving, like Mu and Hazama. Double jump would go a long way, and faster walk speed would make those matchups more tolerable, but they wouldn't really make him much more viable.

What really holds him back are his bad matchups against characters that have no business winning easily against grapplers. Logically, Tager should destroy Tsubaki, Bang, Jin, Platinum, Noel, Makoto, and Tao. They all need to play in his space, but because he doesn't have a solid safe way to escape their pressure (like a good 5A), they get to run all over him. No amount of mobility buffing will solve the problems he has in those matchups.

I imagine balancing Tager is surprisingly tricky. So, they never go overboard with him ever.

This is a great post.

Also, the matchup got 2234563x easier for me when i realized all i had to do was 3c when i was magnetized and his 6a was rendered useless.

I'm just...sigh. I'm really considering not playing this game anymore.

What the others said. I imagine they're just trying a bunch of stuff out right now to figure out what works best with litchi. Just wait until the actual game comes out before making any decisions.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Agreed. I'm going to stay with it and still stick with my main regardless but, I'm going to be hopefully optimistic until it officially comes.

 

[Lore]

I'd like to think that Jubei would come first. Mostly since BB is very story driven and Kokonoe publicly detests to using her powers, I think there would have to be some major event in the 3rd game's story that makes her change her mind and want to join the action.

I suspect that the next game will have a "get rid of her nukes!" plot, and after realizing her nukes are really useless to defeat Terumi (after a boss fight!), she'll join the battle personally with a glorious mixture of science, magic, power, candy, and pure badassery. :3

I'm also a huuuuuuge Kokonoe fan, so I'm really hoping this is the case.

 

[Yaya]

I'm not bashing Blazblue, I have played the game, I just don't actually play it (lacking a current gen console does that). What I'm saying is that I don't like the way Arcsys does loketests, and also that it's gotten to a point where I just expect the worst for Tager.

I'm sorry if it looks like I hate this game, but I don't.

 

[Spelt]

Loketests are pretty dumb but I really don't see any way to make them better.
People would probably like them better if they could actually participate instead of sitting around waiting for badly worded/translated definitions to pop up randomly somewhere on the internet.

I suspect that the next game will have a "get rid of her nukes!" plot, and after realizing her nukes are really useless to defeat Terumi (after a boss fight!), she'll join the battle personally with a glorious mixture of science, magic, power, candy, and pure badassery. :3

I'm also a huuuuuuge Kokonoe fan, so I'm really hoping this is the case.

Yeah, I was thinking something along the lines of that, too.

I can't wait for a kokonoe vs jubei theme.

 

[Yaya]

Well, the KoF13 loketests were fairly well received because they only made small changes to the game in attempt to balance, instead of adding new gimmicks into the game like Arcsys did with the 25% meter for bursting.

It's pretty crazy how we went from bursting being the end of the world in CT to being rewarded for it in this loketest.

 

[Spelt]

They're trying stuff out. That's what loketests are for.


& CT bursts were dumb.

Imo every game so far has been an improvement mechanically.
I didn't think I would like CS at first because of how much they ***** rachel but once I played it I realized how much better of a game it was in general.

If they'd just make it harder to mash out of pressure, this game would be amazing.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

It's pretty crazy how we went from bursting being the end of the world in CT to being rewarded for it in this loketest.

>_>

Didn't you get a smidgeon of meter for defensive Bursts in GG, in general? Or was that just in Midnight Carnival?

Smooth Criminal

 

[Rutger]

I don't like the meter for green bursts, but I'll have to wait and see if that stays.


Gold bursts in GG gave 100% meter, blue didn't.

 

[Minato]

>_>

Didn't you get a smidgeon of meter for defensive Bursts in GG, in general? Or was that just in Midnight Carnival?

Smooth Criminal

Defensive bursts gave you no tension. At best, if they were hit by a defensive burst, your Burst meter doesn't reach zero (but close to it).

 

[Spelt]

I am neutral about green bursts giving meter. I'm liking gold bursts giving meter, though.

I'll just have to wait and see how it turns out.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I don't like the meter for green bursts, but I'll have to wait and see if that stays.


Gold bursts in GG gave 100% meter, blue didn't.

Defensive bursts gave you no tension. At best, if they were hit by a defensive burst, your Burst meter doesn't reach zero (but close to it).

Thanks, guys.

Yaya's post made me reminisce about GG for a spell and I thought I remembered some sorta meter gain in one of the iterations of the series for a defensive burst. Lol.

Overall I'm with Spelt. I'm kinda neutral on the meter gain for defensive Barrier Bursts. I think meter-building in CS2 got it just right, but we'll see how it affects things with time. It is a loketest so it may or may not stay.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Wave⁂]

Was any character actually buffed in the loketest? It seems like they're nerfing all the characters, while buffing defensive options in the form of blocking and bursts.

 

[Turazrok]

CS2 discussion??

Info on rachel?

 

[Spelt]

I think Ragna and hakumen overall have been buffed.

 

[Lythium]

Guys, guys, guys. They're slowly turning BB into GG. Hence the crazy burst changes. Except the no midscreen damage thing. And getting meter from green bursts is silly. Also, I'm a little tipsy right now, so I'm not gonna bother multiquoting everything.

@Rutger: thanks!

@Jam: whatevs, Litchi is still pretty godlike. Just wait and see how the build turns out, they might not keep those changes.

@Wave: Mu and Lambda got some nice buffs. It kinda looks like they're trying to make zoning less weak in this game, but that could just my interpretation of it.

@Turazrok: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/show...rsion-loketest-8-11-11-UNHELPFUL-POST-TEMPBAN

 

[Smooth Criminal]

:3

Have a few more drinks for me, girlie.

<3

Smooth Criminal

 

[Lythium]

Dat sangriaaaaaa. <3

More info on Relius: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/show...POST-TEMPBAN&p=1102818&viewfull=1#post1102818

 

[Spelt]

lol Lythium, you are great.



I really don't want another GG though. I just want BB to be less new-user friendly.

 

[Jam Stunna]

My frustration has nothing to do with whether or not they buff or nerf Litchi. I'm just tired of all the changes. What, this will be the fourth version in two years?

 

[Wave⁂]

I'm just tired of all the changes.

Man, you must absolutely hate any sort of competitive game with a non-static metagame.

 

[Spelt]

Yeah, this is pretty standard procedure for competitive fighters. :/

CT was released november 2008 so it's been almost 3 years.
And i'm sure if we do get CS2+ on consoles it won't be until sometime next year.

SF4 was released in 2008 as well, and following the balance patch they're making for AE that'll be 4th version as well.

MvC3 was barely out for 4 months before they announced a new version, lol.

 

[Minato]

Guys, guys, guys. They're slowly turning BB into GG. Hence the crazy burst changes. Except the no midscreen damage thing. And getting meter from green bursts is silly. Also, I'm a little tipsy right now, so I'm not gonna bother multiquoting everything.

I just hope they make bursts easier to bait and punish like GG.
Speaking of which, are BB bursts vulnerable to throws like GG?

My frustration has nothing to do with whether or not they buff or nerf Litchi. I'm just tired of all the changes. What, this will be the fourth version in two years?

BBCT was in 2008, CS1 was in 2009, CS2 2010, CS2+ this year. This is of course in arcades.
The console ports make it seem like we're getting updates too soon considering consoles take half a year to get the update.

 

[Lythium]

Yeah, we don't even know when CS2+ will be released yet. All we know is that it's coming out sometime after the Vita is released, so late 2011, early 2012. Probably around the same time for arcades.

And nope, you can't throw through a burst in BB.

 

[Spelt]

GG bursts are practically useless.
I don't want GG bursts.

 

[Zero_Gamer]

I like the burst buffs. With the overall reduced damage output, bursts are more of a liability than in CSI. You're more susceptible to primer **** than ever and I seriously compare the current bursting to the likes of CT. I want a reason to burst at some point other than almost death.

I wish I played Guilty Gear so I could know how they worked :/ were they super easily baitable or did they have profound consequences?

 

[Minato]

I like the burst buffs. With the overall reduced damage output, bursts are more of a liability than in CSI. You're more susceptible to primer **** than ever and I seriously compare the current bursting to the likes of CT. I want a reason to burst at some point other than almost death.

I wish I played Guilty Gear so I could know how they worked :/ were they super easily baitable or did they have profound consequences?

GG bursts were cool, imo. You build them over time in a match and you gained them faster with lower health. Bursts are (or at least seem) faster than BB's. Bursts were grab-able and characters can't do anything after a failed burst until they reached the ground. If it worked, then they're fine.

BB's bursts are cool too though (the latest ones at least).

 

[Kuraudo]

After playing a lot of CS2 for the past couple or so days, I've come to the conclusion that while the game is still awesome, I kinda miss the way that Ragna played in the original CS. To me that double Belial Edge combo was really cool to me. Then again it also makes me scratch my head that people complained about his "derpiness", even I got in on it. And yet for repeating moves, it almost seems like in CS2, Taokaka has her own loop that repeats for far longer, and most of her combos end the same way too.

CS2 Ragna, really, isn't much different from his CS version in derpiness when you get right down to it. All he does now is either do 1500/2000 midscreen ending in Inferno Divider, or just loop 5Ds with a Dead Spike, 5C, j.C/Belial Edge/whatever, and ALWAYS ending in Inferno Divider in the corner. Overall he just stays basic, just now the timing is tighter for whatever leading into 5D -> Dead Spike -> Dash -> 5C. Practice makes perfect and it's rewarding, but it's such a pain in the *** to me if I'm midscreen. I ain't asking for easy peasy, but if CS2+ is gonna give Ragna ANY kind of buff? I want Dead Spike to be dash cancellable. If they're gonna remove Double Belial Edge, they can at LEAST make his midscreen link a slight bit more managable. Make him a REAL super rushdown threat. Hell, with the way that Taokaka and Valk (mostly wolf form lol) run around the opponent and keep the pressure on, Ragna imo feels dwarved at times.

Slight damage buff and dash cancellable Dead Spike. Wouldn't change anything else about him I guess. Giving him his Double Belial Edge back AND his corner Dead Spike combos would be overkill. lol