The BlazBlue Thread: all the imports!

[Spelt]

I honestly don't think cs2 rachel is that good.

People get zoned by her too easily imo.

 

[Lythium]

I think they just need to figure out what they want to do with Rachel. It seems like they keep shifting their focus of her playstyle with every iteration.

Zone or get zoned.

 

[Minato]

I actually think Rachel's really good in CS2, because of her corner game and okizeme.
That along with her rushdown and mixups, she doesn't really need to zone anyways.

Some players may not agree with me on this, but I think Rachel has always been rushdown (even in CS1).

 

[sakuraZaKi]

I think so too, from experience.

*rawr* :grimer:

 

[Darky-Sama]

I think CS2 Rachel has quite a bit of potential since her pressuring issues were fixed (compared to CS1 at least, yikes). Still, I can't really my mind around using her properly. With 4 Wind and 50% heat, I can do her 5.5k combo on hit confirm, but I don't have amazing technicality when it comes to abusing her drive for mixups.

I was somewhat surprised to see that Rachel would have her j.2C > j.5C back, but then I realized it's only going to be on hit confirm, not block. If it even stays, that is. :/

 

[Lythium]

I agree, I don't think Rachel was ever meant to be a zoning character, it's just the way that I see a lot people play her, especially American players.

Rachel's mixup is really good, and requires a lot of guesswork (especially against a good Rachel). Her zoning is pretty meh, unless she uses wind+lobelia, which I think makes it harder for her to capitalize on her mixup, which is only second to Carl's unblockable setups imo. Rachel's oki is pretty strong, due to being able to force a neutral tech in the corner, and I think she can usually get good 50/50 mixup on her opponent.

I think she doesn't do well in Japan right now, due to being a difficult character to play correctly imo. I think, maybe in a few more months, we'll see more Rachel winning.

 

[Minato]

Mazohime (Matsu) is like the only Rachel I see a lot (actually there's like 1 more but I forget his name).
I like how CS2 Rachel turned out, so I'm hoping CS2+ turns out well for her.

The main problems I see her having even though she's like A tier is meter gaining (compared to the top characters), keeping them in the corner if you used up wind just to get them there and you're out, and getting out of pressure without heat because of her slow normals.

Once Rachel has them in the corner with heat, she practically needs one reset and they're almost done. I like how in CS2 she can gain back all 4 wind during her BnB and set up a frog oki afterwards.

 

[Spelt]

I think her mixups and pressure are really strong, and I agree that she was never meant to be a zoner.

Trying to zone with her in cs1 was an absolutely terrible idea.
She couldn't do anything against jump ins and a grab was basically the death of her, even if she broke it.

cs2 Rachel is definitely great at rushdown, but her oki seems mediocre at best, to me. Basically the only thing she's good at preventing are rolls. George meter and slower lobelias limit her a lot, you can neutral tech and then jump out of the standard setup that she ends 90% of her corner combos with, and the only way to stop them is to iris, and it's not like Rachel's are going to be wasting their pole all of the time just to stop a jump out, especially when the best it can lead to is around 2k meterless. And that's assuming george doesn't accidentally zap them after they get hit by the iris too.

It would've been a much simpler fix to just get rid of george meter and give him repeat proration.

A lot of people lack matchup experience against her because she's so hard to use, therefore people don't know how to properly counter a lot of her strategies. A lot of the people i've faced say Rachel is my best character even though I've spent very little time learning her, which is infuriating because I always see people getting hit by a bunch of stupid stuff that could've been easily avoided, and then I get rewarded with a 5k combo + corner carry because of it.

I think the top changes in this loketest will make her corner oki much better, but for now, I just don't see her as being as good of a character as most people think. Yeah, she's good and still viable and whatnot, but to me she's still a little overhyped.

 

[Lythium]

I definitely agree about people not knowing the matchup. Even in my scene, which isn't huge, but we have almost every character represented, except one or two, and Rachel is one of them.

It's the same problem with a couple characters. They're so unpopular or difficult to play, so no one knows the matchup, so they get blown up by the silliest things.

 

[Minato]

cs2 Rachel is definitely great at rushdown, but her oki seems mediocre at best, to me. Basically the only thing she's good at preventing are rolls. George meter and slower lobelias limit her a lot, you can neutral tech and then jump out of the standard setup that she ends 90% of her corner combos with, and the only way to stop them is to iris, and it's not like Rachel's are going to be wasting their pole all of the time just to stop a jump out, especially when the best it can lead to is around 2k meterless. And that's assuming george doesn't accidentally zap them after they get hit by the iris too.

Hm, I always thought that 3C then frog gave enough time for a meaty 2A so they can't jump out. It's been awhile though.

 

[Spelt]

I never have enough time for anything after the frog.
Especially against noel, who only gets hit with 2 of the hits.

****ing Noel.

 

[Wave⁂]

Throwing out George and the pumpkin should give Rachel invincibility frames

 

[Minato]

I never have enough time for anything after the frog.
Especially against noel, who only gets hit with 2 of the hits.

****ing Noel.

I think you only have time if you did 3C Sword iris 3C summon Frog since you'll have more time, and the lobelia there isn't a situational one either since it should be there after the 1st frog after BBL. Although I'm still not sure if it's a perfect frame trap though so I could be wrong.

When CS2+ comes out, I'll probably just focus on mostly Rachel and maybe Platinum.
Like CS1, I only liked to use Hazama for maybe like a few weeks and then drop him for some reason.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Throwing out George and the pumpkin should give Rachel invincibility frames

I would agree with Impish Gypsophila having invincibility on startup (since she does do a spin like she's dodging something), but not on George. Invincibility on George would just be silly for getting around pressure close up. Just picturing that makes me laugh.

Once CSII+ comes out, I'm going to practice Rachel a bit more considerably. Learn matchups, proper pressure, stuff like that.

 

[Spelt]

I was talking about 214a > 236a corner oki, minato.
If we're talking midscreen they can just roll away.
Of course she can chase them but that's not character specific, lol.

 

[Lythium]

Once CSII+ comes out, I'm going to practice Rachel a bit more considerably. Learn matchups, proper pressure, stuff like that.

Why wait? You can learn stuff like that, and it'll carry over to future iterations.

 

[Minato]

I was talking about 214a > 236a corner oki, minato.
If we're talking midscreen they can just roll away.
Of course she can chase them but that's not character specific, lol.

Now I'm confused lol. After remembering her combos now, her corner oki is great since the opponent can't roll since there's a pole and also a frog after her corner BnB with heat. It also is a frame trap also so they should be able to just jump out.

And of course her midscreen oki is weaker since they can roll away (assuming she's not using meter). Usually I'll just use a frog or a pumpkin if I don't feel like spending 2 wind just to get them into the corner. Midscreen with meter is actually pretty good though too.

Edit: But yeah, I agree with you. Her oki isn't as good as the top characters.

 

[OFY]

i can play tonight darky sama and tomorrow

also can we have one of these tournies again sometime soon, i wanna get in on the ps3 tourny this time

 

[LivewiresXe]

I'd be up for another one of these. Maybe next time I'll use my stick and see if it works out. Huh, reminds me, I've got to see if I'm gonna be ready to use it at the 9/3 and 9/25-9/26 tournaments coming up.

 

[Lore]

Wait wait wait... What's CS2+?

 

[Wave⁂]

Isn't it just balance patch and Relius?

 

[Lore]

Relius and STILL no Kokonoe?

I hope that CS doesn't become BB's Street Fighter 4. At least it hasn't had any major disk releases (for home consoles) since CS released...

 

[Spelt]

It's not like this is the first time Arcsys has done something like this... A lot of fighting games have a bunch of balance patches.

I'm guessing they're trying to get it as balanced as possible so they can forget about it for awhile and start on the next GG.

 

[Minato]

Relius and STILL no Kokonoe?

Hopefully there should be more characters coming. I can't see them adding only one character.

 

[Spelt]

Wouldn't they want the other new characters to be apart of the playtesting too though? D:

I heard there might be another one during SBO though so maybe the new character(s) will be announced there...

 

[Lore]

Relius does look pretty cool though. He's like the Carl I always wanted to play.

 

[LivewiresXe]

Carl but with less whiny-ness, weird shorts, and much more EEEEVIILLLL?

 

[Minato]

Wouldn't they want the other new characters to be apart of the playtesting too though? D:

That's what I'd like to think.

I guess the only time I can recall where characters were not available for playtesting in a recent game were Oni and Evil Ryu in AE. But hopefully they're just not done putting the final touches on Kokonoe the soon to be revealed characters or something.

 

[Spelt]

I'd like to think that Jubei would come first. Mostly since BB is very story driven and Kokonoe publicly detests to using her powers, I think there would have to be some major event in the 3rd game's story that makes her change her mind and want to join the action.

 

[Rutger]

Carl but with less whiny-ness, weird shorts, and much more EEEEVIILLLL?

Relius is totally going to help good guys at the end, that mask just screams it. Or he will be against everyone.
He's a freakin Char.


I'm hyped for Relius, he looks really fun. :3

I'd like to think that Jubei would come first. Mostly since BB is very story driven and Kokonoe publicly detests to using her powers, I think there would have to be some major event in the 3rd game's story that makes her change her mind and want to join the action.

Kokonoe doesn't need to fight everyone once she becomes playable just because it's story driven. Hazama pretty much sat in one place while Noel cooked in CS except for when he went for his little adventure in his story mode. Kokonoe could be pretty similar once she's playable.

Hell, Makoto, Valkenhayn, and Platinum haven't really done any fighting yet. :/

 

[Spelt]

That's not what I meant...

I don't really care how much she fights. It's the fact that in CT/CS's stories she basically said she had no intention of ever fighting and hated magic so she detested using her own. I'm just saying that it seems like they'd want to change that first before she randomly comes out as a playable character even though she's stated multiple times that she has no intention to.

Hazama was already an extremely adept and powerful fighter, even if he did sit in the background for most of the time.


Anyway, some stuff that hasn't been added into the OP of the loketest thread yet:

Spoiler

バング
・5DCH時の壁バウンド削除
・コマ投げの補正きつく
・6DCHの受け身不能時間減少
・JDの発生鈍化
・J4Cの浮きが高くなって追撃しづらく

Bang
- Walbounce on CH 5D has been removed
- Command grab prorates hard now (low P1/P2 values to be clear)
- CH 6D has less untechable time
- j.D has slower startup
- j.4C causes opponent to fly higher on hit, making followups after difficult

レイチェル
・6Bのjc削除

Rachel
- 6B is no longer jump-cancellable

タオカカ
・コンボの補正が少し優秀に。CSと同じレシピで2B始動が2800が3200に

・しゃがみ食らいに対して5C、2C＞6Cが繋がる
※6Cのフレームは19フレーム以下らしい

Taokaka
- Combo proration has been tuned to be slightly better. You can use the same combo recipes as from CS1; a combo starting from 2B can get 2800-3200.
- 5C/2C > 6C works on crouchers
* 6C's startup is at least 19 frames

ラムダ
・5Dと2Dに4B、6Cのガトリングが追加
・4Dに4B、6Cのガトリング追加
・重力発生時間が短く

Lambda
- (the note about gatlings from 5D/2D to 4B/6C has been crossed out)
- 4D > 4B/6C has been added (I haven't seen this anywhere so :/)
- Gravity [seed] has faster startup

ツバキ
・衣中のD技の同技補正は別技扱いに
・小パンの補正きつく

Tsubaki
- Repeat proration for D moves does not apply to D moves that are used while in 214214D
- 5A prorates hard now (low P1 value most likely)

ハザマ
・ジャコウの硬直増加

Hazama
- Jakou has more hitstun

マコト
・コメットの発生鈍化、硬直増加。レベル3が壁バウンドしない
・空中投げの硬直増加
・JBCHの浮きが高く、接地前に受け看取られる
・シューティングスターLv3の全身距離が増加。パイルバンカー！
・マーズチョッパーがD系統でキャンセル不可。DDも無理
・ビッグバンスマッシュの硬直増加
・インフィニットラッシュの硬直が増加し、画面端で追撃不可に

Makoto
- Comet Cannon has slower startup, hitstun increased. Level 3 version does not wallbounce
- Air grab has more hitstun
- CH j.B launches the opponent higher, opponent will tech before they land on the ground (verify)
- Shooting Star's total range has been increased. Pilebunker!
- Mars Chopper cannot cancel into any D followup (verify). Cannot cancel into Distortion Drives either
- Big Bang Smash has more hitstun
- Infinite Rush has more hitstun, cannot followup even in corner

Seems like they're trying to make Tao more like she was in cs1 without the taunt loops.

I also think they're trying to make Tsubaki's mugen-like super useful.

 

[Rutger]

I really see no reason for Kokonoe not being a fighter. I think she started to use her magic when Relius pissed her off in a DS/PSP only story too.

Well, no matter.

バング
・5DCH時の壁バウンド削除
・コマ投げの補正きつく
・6DCHの受け身不能時間減少
・JDの発生鈍化
・J4Cの浮きが高くなって追撃しづらく
-Walbounce on CH 5D has been removed
-Command grab prorates hard now (low P1/P2 values to be clear)
-CH 6D has less untechable time
-j.D has slower startup
-j.4C causes opponent to fly higher on hit, making followups after difficult

(why are they nerfing him even more i don't understand)

Some Bang nerfs too.

Also, these changes might not be permanent throughout this loctest. The changes Spelt posted says one of Lambda's changes has been crossed out. A change I'm pretty sure was confirmed from the begining.

So take these with even less of a grain of salt than before?

 

[Spelt]

Yeah apparently they've been changing stuff, probably according to the feedback they've been getting.

people probably told them how useless the 2d/5d > 4b/6c gatlings were, lol.

 

[Wave⁂]

Bang nerfs

w at

 

[Spelt]

Maybe they're trying to make him tager tier so the red devil doesn't feel lonely.

 

[Kuraudo]

So long as the game remains awesomely balanced, I can't complain.

 

[Yaya]

Remember that time CS1 came out and Tager mains were all, "Well, at least we're not the worst in the game," and then they were the worst in the game at the end of CS1? Remember that time going into CS2 everybody was thinking, "Oh jayzus Tager so strong," and then 2 weeks later he was the worst in the game?

Maybe Tager mains should just expect the worst and be pleasantly surprised, if they already haven't reverted to that.

 

[Wave⁂]

The problem is that if Tager mains expect the worst, they'll be right.

 

[Yaya]

The problem is that if Tager mains expect the worst, they'll be right.

I know Arcsys' joketests never have an effect on the final product, but I'm just waiting for this to show up on one of the Japanese loketest sites:

"Decreased damage on 720C"

I'll just sit here laughing, I don't even play this game. I am interested in playing Carl and even more so Relius, though.

 

[Spelt]

Why do you care so much about this game if you don't play it?
Seems like you're 1 step away from being able to recite 100% of the changes for the second 2 iterations by heart.