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The Big MI Discussion Topic

H

HiddenBowser

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Reezy989 said:
Its so funny how one persons opinion can be. "you're all WRONG" this is how everyone thinks and also why america (politically) is so ****ed up. but thats a whole nother topic. sorry for being preachy. brawl is slower than melee. so the F what. Melee still exists. If you like it, play it. The amount of hate people have for brawl is ridiculous. I hate cottage cheese. EXTREMELY. That doesnt mean i sit at the computer all day and list reasons why i hate it.
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Stop being a whinny little *****, you're killing the mood.
 
SamuraiPanda

SamuraiPanda

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Vayseth said:
Um, no, you can't make a blanket statement like that. Scotu's comment was one of the smartest I've seen and he IS right. You can't just say that.
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I can, and I did. I've argued this point to death in person and online, so forgive me if I just don't feel like giving an in-depth rebuttal anymore. And most of the posts I make on these issues are generally in the SBR and what not, so I can't exactly link you to it, either.

Also, it is VERY apparent that Metaknight is way at the top of the game. However, it is also apparent to note that MANY people have learned how to play against him and have done really well in tournaments without Meta. I think the reason so many metas are still at the top of placings is because the top players are the ones using him. If Anther used Meta, he'd still win by as much as he is currently. The top players would be at the top still if Azen and M2K used Lucario and Dedede and if DSF used Snake, they'd still be at the top of their regions just because the players themselves are good.

He doesn't deserve a ban, and it would be awful to good Meta players like Dojo, who have basically reinvented him, to have to drop them because people are getting sick of him. EVO was already calling us a bunch of babies for banning stages and items, if we ban a character now we couldn't show our faces to them.

Meta should not be banned. He's not that hard to beat. It's just like playing the ICs. They're annoying and you can die with seemingly little effort by your opponent, but you CAN win, even if it is hard.
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.....
This is a hot topic everywhere in the Smash community right now. Including the SBR. Trust me when I say that I've seen both sides of the issue for quite some time now, and the debate hasn't slowed down much at all. Again, I'm not going to directly respond to the issues you've raised here, because you're merely just repeating one of the sentiments held by the group that doesn't want to ban him. Its nothing new. Well, except for your comment about EVO. We don't give a flying **** about what EVO or SRK think, not now and not ever. I don't see why anybody would lose sleep over what they think.

To give you an idea of the debate, here is something I recently said in response to M2K in the thread where we're discussing MK:
SamuraiPanda said:
Well, one of the biggest problems with MK is just that he doesn't really have any even matchups or bad stages. He can't be counterpicked per se (with the possible exception of Diddy on FD, but I don't think Diddy can handle MK on many other stages).

Let me make a scenario for you to illustrate the biggest problem with MK so far. Lets say I use Mario in tournaments. Mario has a nearly unwinnable matchup against MK (or so I hear), so I need to use a secondary to take care of MK. But who do I pick up? Snake? No, MKs have learned how to beat all but the best Snakes out there. G&W? No, he still doesn't do great against MK. So I pick the one and only character that can handle MK: MK himself. Then I play with MK until I'm good enough to have him as a second... but then I start to realize that I'm winning matches much more easily, I can't be counterpicked against, and I begin to rely on MK more and more whenever I feel pressured. And thats when I discover that my MK, a character I only recently picked up, is better than my Mario in every possible situation. Soon I just stop playing Mario altogether because it is so much simpler and more effective to just play MK.

But lets assume there is no MK anymore, and Snake is the second best. Mario has a pretty tough matchup against Snake, so I have to pick up a secondary to beat him. Who do I pick up? Well, I have my choice from DDD, ROB, Falco, Lucario, Pikachu, etc. There are quite a few characters I can choose from that do well, or even have an advantage against him (he even has a few hard counters, too). But each of those counterpick characters have their own inherent problems, bad matchups, and what not, so I can't really rely on them whenever I feel pressured against a character that goes even or has an advantage against them. In the end, I continue with Mario as my main and I use my second for Mario's difficult matchups but not much else.


Thats the biggest reason people are calling for MK's ban. In theory (and its actually happening currently), everyone will eventually switch to MK because they all need some sort of answer against him. I can honestly see MK getting banned in a few months if a counter or two is not found soon.
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Zankoku

Zankoku

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Needle of Juntah said:
lol Scotu..... play M2K then tell me how many option you had
Until any of you play M2K at melee, just stop talking about is vs brawl. brawl is better
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It's funny how you complain about people talking about Anther being ridiculously good and then bring up M2K for Melee.

Well if you're gonna bring up M2K, may as well take a look at how the EC plays.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awI8Zz1EIE8
 
Vayseth

Vayseth

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LOL @ Ankoku. Love that vid.

Bowyer: I was going to post that too! Here it is for good measure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJIkk3dJ6P0

Panda: I agree with what you have to say. However, the way you're going about this is kind of ****-ish XD Just don't make blanket statements, it makes you look ******** and elitist when you go "I'd actually debate this with you, but I mostly post in the back room and I'd LOVE to show you guys that but, ya know, I can't, because I'm in the SBR, and um, you're not." Quoting yourself like you did is much better than just saying everyone's wrong and "I don't want to debate this with you." It's not that I don't think you haven't debated this issue before, it's more like, if you're not going to contribute here because you've already contributed in so many other avenues, why say anything at all?

BTW, we CAN and we WILL find stuff around Metaknight. It's just a matter of time. DK took a while to discover in melee <3

And now that I'm just reviewing over what was posted, you still haven't addressed where I said Scotu's comment was good. It seems like there's two issues going on here: Melee vs. Brawl and Metaknight = God tier bannable. I still think Scotu has said one of the smartest things regarding the melee vs brawl issue, and I also think that everyone is starting to stop hating brawl. If Bowyer is willing to play brawl again and thing he's "AMAZING at this game" again, then the melee vs brawl debate is officially over.
 
Zankoku

Zankoku

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...Yet he enjoyed approximately as much success and popularity as Mewtwo and Pikachu.
Not amazing characters are still not amazing.
 
SCOTU

SCOTU

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For the record, my comment which started some war between vayseth, joel, and panda, had nothing to do w/ the supremacy of melee over brawl.

Also, Just because M2K is **** awesome, it doesn't mean that you have any less options, it just means that M2K is **** good at not caring what you're doing, and ****** you anyways (unless you're mango).
 
Vayseth

Vayseth

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scotu said:
For the record, my comment which started some war between vayseth, joel, and panda, had nothing to do w/ the supremacy of melee over brawl.
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BTW, which is why I think it's so awesome. I know that you didn't post with that in mind, which allows me to appreciate that comment even more. Makes me wish I played Melee, even a little.

Ankoku said:
I was talking about DK.
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Gotcha. Point being, there was a threat to top tiers in at least one form eventually XD
 
Zankoku

Zankoku

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Vayseth said:
Gotcha. Point being, there was a threat to top tiers in at least one form eventually XD
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Yeah, no. Any characters that actually became viable threats to top tier were high or top tier, themselves. The only exception was the higher portion of mid tier, which had Falcon, Ice Climbers, and Jigglypuff. Anything else was simply a matter of matchup inexperience or sizable skill gap.
 
H

HiddenBowser

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Vayseth said:
Bowyer: I was going to post that too! Here it is for good measure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJIkk3dJ6P0
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omg, he rests him off the ship, lol.

Vayseth said:
BTW, we CAN and we WILL find stuff around Metaknight. It's just a matter of time. DK took a while to discover in melee <3
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DK beats MK :)

Vayseth said:
If Bowyer is willing to play brawl again and thing he's "AMAZING at this game" again, then the melee vs brawl debate is officially over.
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HAHAHAHAHA, thats going in my sig... somewhere...
 
Vayseth

Vayseth

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Rat said:
So like has brawl in Ann Arbor gotten better since the beginning of summer?
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I would say all of us have seriously improved. However, it's not like placings have changed much. All of us seem to be getting better at the same rate but we're all making progress. Anther is 2-0'ing and 3-0'ing people more frequently now, if that means anything. No more game 5s.
 
Rat

Rat

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Vayseth said:
I would say all of us have seriously improved. However, it's not like placings have changed much. All of us seem to be getting better at the same rate but we're all making progress. Anther is 2-0'ing and 3-0'ing people more frequently now, if that means anything. No more game 5s.
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ok, I've only been able to go to like 4 (maybe 5?) brawl tournaments over the summer. I probably suck comparatively =(. So yeah, I definitely want to play you guys and hang out again. (it was too much fun. A 1st person movie about watching cloverfield, lolz. Plus Lain and omni are just wacky.)




No johnz bowyer. You play a goofy robot and a puffball.
 
okiyama

okiyama

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scotu said:
I went to one tourney over the summer.... and played far more melee there...
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By the way were you sandbagging/sucking at rofa's? Cause my fox was doing better against your marth than it should have,
Your fox still destroyed me though.

I really really wish I preferred Brawl to melee, I really do because the scene is bigger and better but I can't really change that. I tried to like it, I hyped myself up for 2 months before it came out to the point where I was listening to SMYN episodes 3-4 times in a week and reading every bit of speculation, watching every video et cetera. But I got it and I just couldn't like it competetively.
The most fun I've ever had with smash was in the get your game on days. Playing everyday for 5-10 hours a day. Too good. It was casual so nobody cared if they one it was all just for ****s and giggles and to be all amazed at how sweet brawl is. But whatever, see you guys at the next tourney.
 
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