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The Big MI Discussion Topic

Flandy121

Flandy121

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
99
Location
Allendale, Michigan
Speaking of Johns lets take a second to tell some stories of Johns. In a day or two I'm going to load a sound file of my friend Jared saying one of the greatest Johns ever!
 
Z

Zelow

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
140
Location
Madison Heights Michigan
Kail said:
Zelow, they are every Thursday at some time. Not sure when seeing as I will be there after it starts.
There is also a tournament that is happening on November 8th.
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Melee or brawl and is there an entry fee? i think i migh "MIGHT" be able to show lol talking with my buddy about it (my ride lol but he is better then me) but were mostly just interested in melee
 
K

Kail

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
1,422
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
We play both, but mostly Melee. No entry fee but the store might like it if you bought a drink or something. Which are all under 2 dollars.
 
Zankoku

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
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NarutoShocker said:
How can playing something faster make you better at something slower? Melee and brawl don't even have the same techniques involved
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Brawl is so inherently limited speed-wise and technique-wise that you tend to unconsciously block out your possible options, as well. It takes playing a game that one is familiar with to start getting creative in Brawl.
 
SCOTU

SCOTU

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
6,636
Location
Northville, MI
NarutoShocker said:
How can playing something faster make you better at something slower? Melee and brawl don't even have the same techniques involved
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For starters, what techniques are involved are are a moot point; the root of the game relies in out thinking your opponent. In melee, for every situation, you have more options, thus more to consider, in both what your opponent is going to do, and how to counter it. Furthermore, the amount of time you have to figure out what your opponent is doing and what to do about it is less.

Now take away the speed, so you have more time to think, and take away a bunch of options, so you have less to think about, and if you could play melee, you've got enough thinking power to think farther ahead.

Thus, by playing Melee, a game that's faster paced, with more options, you can get better playing brawl, a game with a more limited set of tools and more time to decide how to use them.
 
Vayseth

Vayseth

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 28, 2005
Messages
3,015
Location
Southeast Michigan
scotu said:
For starters, what techniques are involved are are a moot point; the root of the game relies in out thinking your opponent. In melee, for every situation, you have more options, thus more to consider, in both what your opponent is going to do, and how to counter it. Furthermore, the amount of time you have to figure out what your opponent is doing and what to do about it is less.

Now take away the speed, so you have more time to think, and take away a bunch of options, so you have less to think about, and if you could play melee, you've got enough thinking power to think farther ahead.

Thus, by playing Melee, a game that's faster paced, with more options, you can get better playing brawl, a game with a more limited set of tools and more time to decide how to use them.
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What he said ~~~^
 
alcoady

alcoady

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 22, 2006
Messages
799
Location
M-F'in South Haven, MI
scotu said:
For starters, what techniques are involved are are a moot point; the root of the game relies in out thinking your opponent. In melee, for every situation, you have more options, thus more to consider, in both what your opponent is going to do, and how to counter it. Furthermore, the amount of time you have to figure out what your opponent is doing and what to do about it is less.

Now take away the speed, so you have more time to think, and take away a bunch of options, so you have less to think about, and if you could play melee, you've got enough thinking power to think farther ahead.

Thus, by playing Melee, a game that's faster paced, with more options, you can get better playing brawl, a game with a more limited set of tools and more time to decide how to use them.
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....you just blew my ****in mind...
 
H

HiddenBowser

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
3,511
scotu said:
For starters, what techniques are involved are are a moot point; the root of the game relies in out thinking your opponent. In melee, for every situation, you have more options, thus more to consider, in both what your opponent is going to do, and how to counter it. Furthermore, the amount of time you have to figure out what your opponent is doing and what to do about it is less.

Now take away the speed, so you have more time to think, and take away a bunch of options, so you have less to think about, and if you could play melee, you've got enough thinking power to think farther ahead.

Thus, by playing Melee, a game that's faster paced, with more options, you can get better playing brawl, a game with a more limited set of tools and more time to decide how to use them.
Click to expand...
hmm... but I thought brawl was faster than melee!?!?!
 
okiyama

okiyama

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
595
Location
Ann Arbor, Michigan
That's all very true like in brawl I've noticed that it seems to be merely a game of, you did this, I counter with that, obviously there are complex situations because it's a complex game but in comparison to melee where you have a falco approaching you and you have lasers at you every half second or so you must first consider how to counter the lasers while still keeping yourself from being open to him approaching and finally his attack which may lead to a combo(remember those?) In brawl the only way to compare this is if you have a snake dropping grenades and C4's everywhere then you must consider how to counter all of those while still countering the eminent snake attack. This is all at a slower pace though so you can think okay if I'm going to try to approach is he going to drop a grenade/is there already a grenade/C4 there? If not you can just go, if there is just wait. With melee everything is more... uncertain, like if you approach there is a good chance that falco will shut you down with a laser, so what do you do? perhaps a jump to clear the laser, that's good but then you have landing lag which leaves you in danger, maybe a waveland, also good but that as lag too so if you go towards him you'll be punished if you go backwards you are just stopping your approach. With Snake, there is no Grenades so you just go. Not really thinking if he's going to get one out because by the time he has that out you'll already be in his face and if he throws it it won't explode by the time it gets to you so there's less worries in your approach.

Note you can substitute and character in you want, and for the lasers/grenades you can substitute in say shield grabbing or some other anti approach move.

Brawl also has meta knight which makes me strongly dislike many of the matches I am in.
 
SamuraiPanda

SamuraiPanda

Smash Hero
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
6,924
I don't feel like arguing about Brawl's metagame anymore since I do it so much. Suffice to say you're all wrong. And MK is also very good, but that shouldn't matter to Michigan since we only have one MK. Hell, there are only 3 MKs in the midwest at all: Rofa, Kel, and OS now. Nobody else plays him.
 
H

HiddenBowser

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Messages
3,511
@Oki: you can't compare falco's lasers in melee to brawl in anyway because that's just a character specific nearly broken projectile, not a general melee thing.
 
S

Shaeden

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Messages
302
Location
Waterford
okiyama said:
I put too much thought into how melee is played.
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Yes.. yes you do. All the game is, approach with a nair, if that doesn't work, nair again. done.
then again, this is michigan so that's probably the reason that strategy works for me, or has worked for me in every michigan tournament.

The game is every bit as easy as brawl.
 
Zankoku

Zankoku

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Falco's laser's are annoying to deal with whether it's Melee or Brawl. Actually, a little more annoying to deal with in Brawl because powershielding them doesn't reflect any more.

Meta Knight is a silly character. Annoyingly enough, it seems the only standard setup he has is Neutral B.
 
Needle of Juntah

Needle of Juntah

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 25, 2003
Messages
2,580
Location
Rochester, Michigan
Shaeden said:
Yes.. yes you do. All the game is, approach with a nair, if that doesn't work, nair again. done.
then again, this is michigan so that's probably the reason that strategy works for me, or has worked for me in every michigan tournament.

The game is every bit as easy as brawl.
Click to expand...
once you play m2k you dont actually play melee anymore
 
Needle of Juntah

Needle of Juntah

Smash Champion
Joined
Nov 25, 2003
Messages
2,580
Location
Rochester, Michigan
okiyama said:
That's all very true like in brawl I've noticed that it seems to be merely a game of, you did this, I counter with that, obviously there are complex situations because it's a complex game but in comparison to melee where you have a falco approaching you and you have lasers at you every half second or so you must first consider how to counter the lasers while still keeping yourself from being open to him approaching and finally his attack which may lead to a combo(remember those?) In brawl the only way to compare this is if you have a snake dropping grenades and C4's everywhere then you must consider how to counter all of those while still countering the eminent snake attack. This is all at a slower pace though so you can think okay if I'm going to try to approach is he going to drop a grenade/is there already a grenade/C4 there? If not you can just go, if there is just wait. With melee everything is more... uncertain, like if you approach there is a good chance that falco will shut you down with a laser, so what do you do? perhaps a jump to clear the laser, that's good but then you have landing lag which leaves you in danger, maybe a waveland, also good but that as lag too so if you go towards him you'll be punished if you go backwards you are just stopping your approach. With Snake, there is no Grenades so you just go. Not really thinking if he's going to get one out because by the time he has that out you'll already be in his face and if he throws it it won't explode by the time it gets to you so there's less worries in your approach.

Note you can substitute and character in you want, and for the lasers/grenades you can substitute in say shield grabbing or some other anti approach move.

Brawl also has meta knight which makes me strongly dislike many of the matches I am in.
Click to expand...

without reading the whole thing i guess what you pretty much just said is

people have played melee for 7+ years and know every inch of the game and brawls been out for 6 months
 
Cosmo!

Cosmo!

nerf zelda's dsmash
Joined
Feb 5, 2008
Messages
2,368
Location
Chicago, Illinois
Bowyer said:
@Oki: you can't compare falco's lasers in melee to brawl in anyway because that's just a character specific nearly broken projectile, not a general melee thing.
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replace it with falcon/fox dd camping

or a marth spacing fairs right in front of your face

it still works

you need to think and adapt faster in melee period

... *goes back to wi thread*
 
Zankoku

Zankoku

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By the same token, you can easily dominate lesser players by spamming speed and safety in Melee. In Brawl too, only not nearly as fast because everyone falls slower and can airdodge a lot.

Players with average-to-poor reaction time don't have as harsh of an innate disadvantage in Brawl, I suppose.
 
Vayseth

Vayseth

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SamuraiPanda said:
Suffice to say you're all wrong. [...] Nobody else plays him.
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Um, no, you can't make a blanket statement like that. Scotu's comment was one of the smartest I've seen and he IS right. You can't just say that.

Also, it is VERY apparent that Metaknight is way at the top of the game. However, it is also apparent to note that MANY people have learned how to play against him and have done really well in tournaments without Meta. I think the reason so many metas are still at the top of placings is because the top players are the ones using him. If Anther used Meta, he'd still win by as much as he is currently. The top players would be at the top still if Azen and M2K used Lucario and Dedede and if DSF used Snake, they'd still be at the top of their regions just because the players themselves are good.

He doesn't deserve a ban, and it would be awful to good Meta players like Dojo, who have basically reinvented him, to have to drop them because people are getting sick of him. EVO was already calling us a bunch of babies for banning stages and items, if we ban a character now we couldn't show our faces to them.

Meta should not be banned. He's not that hard to beat. It's just like playing the ICs. They're annoying and you can die with seemingly little effort by your opponent, but you CAN win, even if it is hard.
 
R

Reezy989

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
43
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
SamuraiPanda said:
I don't feel like arguing about Brawl's metagame anymore since I do it so much. Suffice to say you're all wrong. And MK is also very good, but that shouldn't matter to Michigan since we only have one MK. Hell, there are only 3 MKs in the midwest at all: Rofa, Kel, and OS now. Nobody else plays him.
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Its so funny how one persons opinion can be. "you're all WRONG" this is how everyone thinks and also why america (politically) is so ****ed up. but thats a whole nother topic. sorry for being preachy. brawl is slower than melee. so the F what. Melee still exists. If you like it, play it. The amount of hate people have for brawl is ridiculous. I hate cottage cheese. EXTREMELY. That doesnt mean i sit at the computer all day and list reasons why i hate it.
 
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