The Best Players.

[KirbyKaze]

It's not really being humble...

I didn't play anyone hard until Mango and he decided to don his ScorpEhDorp alter ego for the tournament. So he went Falcon. And I "play hella gay" (his words) in a really dumb matchup so idk. I'm fairly convinced he could have won with Falcon LOL but idk he's impossible to tell with.

Then I had Vanz and Vanz ***** but I played hella gay and somehow won. Normally Vanz ***** me LOL.

Then I had PP. And I liked our sets. They were fun. This one especially. I did cool combos. And people were still cheering for me

Then I had M2K, who destroyed me utterly.

Then I had another fun set with PP. And we were on a boat. Doing flips and ****.

My bracket was a good Sheik bracket.

No Jman, no Eggm, no RaynEX, no Unknown.

No random Ice Climbers.

No Hungrybox.

It was a really nice bracket for me.

 

[Bing]

I kinda like how Mango is using more and more character, yet he still finishes high everytime. Like, when he first became Scorp, he was ****in **** up with Mario, not quite as hard as Jiggs or Falco, but still doin pretty solid.

 

[Dr Peepee]

F u kirbykaze you're really good shut up lol. Good enough to be discussed here? Sure, why not?

RC <3

=p

 

[Dr Peepee]

...Okay, I'll try not being sarcastic this time.

HBox constantly takes second. Nobody is willing to acknowledge that he deserves his rank of 2nd best player, despite constantly beating everybody that isn't Mango. Why? Because they don't like his style.

So many Smashers want to rate players that fit what they *think* is a "good" playstyle rather than what wins consistently. Sometimes those two qualities mesh together, sometimes they don't.

Like I used in my other post, PP and JMan are prime examples. Are they great players? Yes. Were they overrated as **** compared to people who kept placing higher than them, more consistently? Also yes. PP would get pretty high and lose, but everybody was saying "def top 5 material." JMan was constantly losing and placing outside of the top, but people still wanted to put him at 5th or whatever because... they wanted to believe that's what his style was. Same thing is happening with Axe, who gets 5th at one huge tournament and people are saying that he's obviously top 8.

Now remember when HBox was ****** errbody and people were claiming "gay," "boring," "campy," "people don't play the matchup right?" People were saying he'd have to win WAY more before he could be considered great.

Axe comes along with his Pikachu, beats a bunch of space animals that let themselves get gimped repeatedly, and people are saying he's one of the best in the country. Off performance at a few tournaments, against people with limited experience against his style of play. Do you see the hypocrisy? Do you see how ridiculous it is to say that because PP beat HBox at ROM this time, he's suddenly 2nd best?

And bear in mind, this is from somebody who knows firsthand how god**** good these players are. I know exactly how good Axe is because I played him multiple times in tournament as he was getting to be that good. Do I believe he's a top player? Maybe. He has to actually play against all the people who are clearly above him, and play against them several times to really determine it. Do I think his playstyle is awesome, fun, and entertaining? Absolutely.

Dr. PP: played him at APEX, played him in a lot of friendlies at TO6. His playstyle is ****ed hard to fight because it's precise, sharp, intelligent, and vicious. It's exactly what a top player needs. Does that mean he is 2nd best, or whatever? No. Just because his style echoes what we want a top player to look like doesn't make it so.

He beat HBox and M2K at ROM. I'm very happy for him. If he can do it again, and soundly, we can seriously consider ranking him higher.

I think it's ridiculous that people apply double standards based on who they like and what playstyles that they prefer to see. And in order to keep from backtracking, people will change their views on what makes a playstyle "good" to keep thinking their favorite players remain "good." Against Axe at APEX, JMan was relying almost exclusively on dash-dance camping into u-throw u-air to get most of his stocks. The kind of playstyle that would normally get a Fox labeled gay. But it's JMan, so it's cool. HBox spams b-air, he's gay. JMan spams u-throw u-air and camps, he's smart and amazing.

Seriously, some of you people astound me.

tl;dr: consistent tourney results over a period of time, and stop biasing based on what you'd like to "think" makes a good style.

Sorry for double posting, but I agree with this.

I don't know what I deserve anymore after RoM3 but it certainly isn't being above Hbox(I'm still comin for you though <3). I've gotta rematch Armada and win once or twice, beat Amsah once or twice, and stop blowing vs Mango's Fox lol, along with beating Hbox to make our more recent records look better for me before I can convince myself I could be much higher than anything above a pp/m2k/amsah split. That's just me though.

Those are my goals/criteria to be really good if anyone cares, and regardless of what you tell me, I can't believe in myself as much as you all do. XD

All I can say for now is I'll do my best guys, whether you want me to or not. =)

 

[KirbyKaze]

F u kirbykaze you're really good shut up lol. Good enough to be discussed here? Sure, why not?

RC <3

=p

ur gay

and you don't play this game correctly

jumping is dumb

sheik is fine on the boat though so w/e

 

[Dr Peepee]

ur gay

You started it.


Edit: Yeah....I got scared LOL. Good shiz ****** me for that though, I learned my lesson.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Oh ***** it is on

Thank you for showing me how bad I am though

It will drive me to destroy you!

THE WARRIOR

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

edit: Poliwag is so cute :3

 

[Dr Peepee]

LOL okay KK. XD

 

[KirbyKaze]

Isn't Poliwag cute?

You're responding to the least important parts of my posts PP. Poliwag is more important than tournament results.

Step it up Kevin.

 

[JPOBS]

KirbyKaze got an extremely Sheiky bracket before PP

KK's bracket off the top of my head:
winners:
-bye
-second round idk
-Falco
-MANGO'S FALCON
- Vanz Peach/Puff (for the record he beat vanz's puff and peach once each)
- Dr. PP Falco
-M2K Sheik

losers:
Dr PP falco

how the **** is that a "sheiky" bracket? the only matchup in that list in his favor is falcon, and ffs it was mango's falcon

that couldnt be farther from a sheiky bracket honestly.

edit:i didnt see kk's post. lmfao at calling it a good bracket if he doesnt run into raynex and unknown. loool

 

[Iron Dragon]

Clearly the most important thing here is how cute Poliwag is >_>

 

[CloneHat]

Who is posting these vids? The only thing on YT is some videos of the crowd watching the matches take place.

 

[DJRome]

@wobbles:

how consistent have tiers been set? what is the difficulty in setting tiers?

do you think player rankings are any simpler to figure out? maybe you think that you need multiple data points to make a line, but then again, why would u use data to for a trendline when the data are taken under different circumstances. you wouldn't try to measure things using different conditions and changing venue/time is for sure a huge impact on how players do.

like i said, smash has always been about probability. much like the weather, you can speculate on how the past has been, but can u predict really what will happen between two likely things?

if it were so easy, you could provide stock counts and percents, but it's not. rankings have always been a reflection of what people think would happen should a tournament happen, but that is best reflected in the most recent history and given the current conditions. so no, that kind of old-fashioned notion of "data points" and "history" is just a bunch of hooey. i guess it's a hard concept to wrap your head around completely, but it's much better than what you're offering by a long shot

 

[Divinokage]

Warrior spirit + Polywag = wtf.

 

[hungrybox]

I lost to JPOBs sig

 

[Wobbles]

Poundslap:

I have bad news. You're illiterate.

My point is not, "HBox b-airs so give him mad proppppzzz," I'm saying that people should be recognized for winning REGARDLESS of playstyle, flashy or not. The method (provided it's legal) is irrelevant. You're saying that it's gotta be flashy and baller and **** or else it doesn't matter. I say **** you, because winning matters more than turning your tourney sets into combo videos.

It's NICE when that happens and it gets lots of hype and it's cool, but if somebody is given the choice of playing for the win or playing to make people like them, I give more props to the guy who says "this is my match and nobody else's, I'm winning it for me."

DJRomo: Obviously you don't take sets from years ago into account. But when two players have such a substantial history behind them with an overwhelming trend in favor of one, and the other one finally manages to win ONCE, you treat it as an upset, an outlier. It is NOT the new defining trend until proven to be such.

Does getting one strike make you a pro bowler? Does the concept of being off your game mean anything to you?

How about this: I will sit and money match Mango for a few hours (probably lose a dozen or so) until I finally win one, then stand up, start dancing, and shout about how "I'm better than Mango" because I won our most recent set. Sound dandy? Sound sensible? I hope to God not. Otherwise, what's the point of stuff like rivalries? What's the point of saying two players are equals or closely matched? "Dan just won in tournament so now he's better. Wait, no, he just money matched Bill and Bill won, now Bill is better. Wait, they're playing Pichu dittos and Dan 3 stocked him."

Unless you are the best by a very substantial margin, you will NOT always be on your game at every tournament, and you WILL occasionally lose. HBox has a tournament record that's not only overwhelmingly consistent, but recent to boot. It's not ancient history.

"PP's got this guys. He's gonna beat HBox next time." "Okay it was close he's got it figured out." "Stack it up you'll get him next time." "OH **** HE WON HE'S BETTER NO YOU SHUT UP PP FOR PRESIDEEEEEENNNNNTTTTTTTT."

(I would vote for PP for president)

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

Wobbles i'm surprised you're putting forth so much effort into such a ******** poster, more than once.

" I'm saying that people should be recognized for winning REGARDLESS of playstyle, flashy or not."

This, and everything below that, should be known facts to anyone with a REAL mentality on smash (lolcomboez)

You should've just stopped after the quote, cause if he's disagreeing, he's bad.

 

[DJRome]

once again, you fail to note the fact that circumstances change. you MUST take that into consideration. in your case of mm'ing mango, that is the same day. but in considering players of big names, it is much less frequent and with a change in venue.

im not saying hbox doesn't have a good history, but the thing about other players seems quite off. i stand by that you can only make solid conclusions about what would happen NOW based on what last happened given that it is even recent

 

[Luma]

djrome you cant make a ranking out of 1 tournament, so just stop it...

 

[PoundSlap]

Poundslap:

I have bad news. You're illiterate.

My point is not, "HBox b-airs so give him mad proppppzzz," I'm saying that people should be recognized for winning REGARDLESS of playstyle, flashy or not. The method (provided it's legal) is irrelevant. You're saying that it's gotta be flashy and baller and **** or else it doesn't matter. I say **** you, because winning matters more than turning your tourney sets into combo videos.

It's NICE when that happens and it gets lots of hype and it's cool, but if somebody is given the choice of playing for the win or playing to make people like them, I give more props to the guy who says "this is my match and nobody else's, I'm winning it for me."

lol wobbles i never said u must play flashy to be good. apparently u dont get my point either. but what i said is that u can be better than somebody and still lose due to the playstyle. lets assume that ssbm has only 2 characters; fox and ganondorf. and that theres only one stage which is smaller than yoshis story and has walls on every edge. the fox basically has only one technique to master to be better than ganon, waveshining. the matchup against ganon would be 100 - 0 for fox and regardless how top leveled the ganon is there is no chance of winning because the fox can RELY ON GAY **** THAT WORKS IN EVERY SITUATION. and the same is with hungrybox. he is not smarter than armada, m2k, peepee, amsah or a lot more. seriously. and what is more hungrybox often needs those random rests to win. yes, he can win against them. he CAN. but this does not make him better.

 

[DJRome]

djrome you cant make a ranking out of 1 tournament, so just stop it...

if read what i wrote, i was not in favor of making rankings in the first place

 

[KirbyKaze]

Warrior spirit + Polywag = wtf.

The warrior does not understand the complexity of the mindgames at work.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

lol wobbles i never said u must play flashy to be good. apparently u dont get my point either. but what i said is that u can be better than somebody and still lose due to the playstyle. lets assume that ssbm has only 2 characters; fox and ganondorf. and that theres only one stage which is smaller than yoshis story and has walls on every edge. the fox basically has only one technique to master to be better than ganon, waveshining. the matchup against ganon would be 100 - 0 for fox and regardless how top leveled the ganon is there is no chance of winning because the fox can RELY ON GAY **** THAT WORKS IN EVERY SITUATION. and the same is with hungrybox. he is not smarter than armada, m2k, peepee, amsah or a lot more. seriously. and what is more hungrybox often needs those random rests to win. yes, he can win against them. he CAN. but this does not make him better.

lol, just stop here guy.

trolling or not, you sound like an idiot

your posts sound more like johns for players that arent beating hbox more than anything

lemme re-cap your post.

you're saying that a fox vs a ganon on a walled in small stage is equivelant (or even close to)to hbox ****** people with techniques that work?

you're basically saying hbox does everything right in every situation but HES GAY FOR IT WAHHHHHWAHHHHHHH

qq more


[to post below]
who said i couldn't read your post? your post is just a wall of johns about how jungrybox's playstyle is a counter towards players you like.

obviously hungrybox 5-0'ing armada at apex wasn't enough to prove his smarts, i guess since he can't do better than 5-0 in a set he'll never be able to be smarter than armada.

your logic is insanely flawed

 

[PoundSlap]

you sound like an idiot if you cannot read my post. my logic is actually well explained i dont know whats so hard to understand.

 

[DJRome]

you sound like an idiot if you cannot read my post. my logic is actually well explained i dont know whats so hard to understand.

who gives a **** who is "better"? the complexity of evaluating "skill" is far too high to be measured accurately by anything other than WHO WINS.

if you WIN, you are better. Everyone starts the game with the same tools at his disposal. if you can take advantage of the situation (everything included) enough to win, you are BETTER

 

[Pengie]

Why is it that when one troll goes away another one pops up? After VBM we had MikeHaggar, and now that he's gone we have Poundmyass Poundslap; Smashboards has revolving door of trolls.

 

[KevinM]

Ok lets try and ignore the troll and not ruin a thread that was actually decent

 

[Luma]

poundslap just shut up

every good smasher i talked with agreed how smart hungrybox playstyle is, i mean if he is beating you with only 1 aerial he must be pretty good
and if its that gay how come not everone just does it?

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

who gives a **** who is "better"? the complexity of evaluating "skill" is far too high to be measured accurately by anything other than WHO WINS.

if you WIN, you are better. Everyone starts the game with the same tools at his disposal. if you can take advantage of the situation (everything included) enough to win, you are BETTER

I'm confused. You just said you DGAF who's better than who, and that it's too complex, but then right below it you go on to describe what being better means, in the simplest, most illogical form possible.

explain


and Luma, that was brought up in the argument vs poundslap. his theory on that is that 'no one can completely mimic a style, not even mine' which is lulsy.

Hbox's GAYASSSSSSSSSSSRAPE style only works for hbox. hrm.

 

[PoundSlap]

poundslap just shut up

every good smasher i talked with agreed how smart hungrybox playstyle is, i mean if he is beating you with only 1 aerial he must be pretty good
and if its that gay how come not everone just does it?

because as i said, you cannot copy someones style no matter how good or bad that person is. thats just impossible.
and the people you talked to are probably amsah and some other dutchies, people who dont care about winning so they tell this to keep their honour as respectable person.

btw if hungrybox was really that skilled he could win by doing show offs like armada or mango.

 

[MikeHaggarKJ]

Hbox has had to handle PP and m2k a million times, and armada's done it what... a grand total of once to PP, and 3 times to m2k?

so because armada hasnt had as many chances to play those people it makes him a worse player?
and when was the last time hbox proved himself to calle w, zgetto, hack etc?

 

[DJRome]

I'm confused. You just said you DGAF who's better than who, and that it's too complex, but then right below it you go on to describe what being better means, in the simplest, most illogical form possible.

explain


and Luma, that was brought up in the argument vs poundslap. his theory on that is that 'no one can completely mimic a style, not even mine' which is lulsy.

Hbox's GAYASSSSSSSSSSSRAPE style only works for hbox. hrm.

okay, i admit i didn't separate the terms well.

i meant, who cares who has more "skill" in the example of the fox vs ganon on the small stage.

the true "skill" evaluation isn't from tech skill, reading, etc etc. it's simply the ability to win. that is the real "skill"

 

[PoundSlap]

so because armada hasnt had as many chances to play those people it makes him a worse player?
and when was the last time hbox proved himself to calle w, zgetto, hack etc?

this is a good point we all forgot about it. thanks mikehaggar.

 

[TheGoat]

A troll's first goal is to attract attention; its second goal is to infuriate its target community, and then make said community appear like a bunch of morons. Let's not play their game, guys? Just ignore.

 

[KirbyKaze]

btw if hungrybox was really that skilled he could win by doing show offs like armada or mango.

Flashiness =/= skill. If that were the case we'd all have to bow our heads in shame for ever doubting Lovage's status as the best player.

Moreover... I would think that Fair Fair Resting PP offstage in GFs of TO6 would constitute showing off.

Or Resting Darkrain offstage in TO4 finals LOL.

Now that I think about it he actually Rests offstage a lot if it'll win or give him a big lead or tie the game up...

<__<

 

[Deleted member]

You all DO know that PoundSlap is MikeHaggar right? He's apparently mad about being banned.

Not just saying that because of what's happening now, I thought it was well known a long time ago.

Why are people responding to him like he's relevant?

 

[Luma]

ahahaha amsah doenst care about winning? dude stop it, just stop it xDD
btw i also talked with aniolas and armada when i housed them...

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

this is a good point we all forgot about it. thanks mikehaggar.

we didn't forget about anything, maybe you did. mikehagger has expressed that exact opinion about 10 million times since he started arguing for armada.

 

[PoundSlap]

A troll's first goal is to attract attention; its second goal is to infuriate its target community, and then make said community appear like a bunch of morons. Let's not play their game, guys? Just ignore.

i really dont like to be called a troll if i actually put EFFORT into my posts and reflect my opinion.
also theres a contradiction in your post, if theres really a troll and you do posts like that it already gives him attention.

@KK: skill is more than winning. my ganon fox example should describe it. you can overall be more skilled but consistently lose. that means you JUST lose against that person but youre still better.

 

[ZoSo]

so because armada hasnt had as many chances to play those people it makes him a worse player?
and when was the last time hbox proved himself to calle w, zgetto, hack etc?

I'm pretty sure he proved himself when he trashed Armada at APEX (so much for Armada's free win, huh?), while nobody on your side of the pond has taken a set off him in... a million years or so?

Why are you even talking about Zgetto? He had a chance to "prove himself" at P4 and he got **** on.