The "best" players

[UltimateHaxor123]

1. mango - he's just too good
2. hbox - he's too good with puff
3. armada - sry armada, but u always lose to mango and lost to hbox @ apex
4. amsah - i love this guy. he's the reason i didn't quit melee :D
5. jman/pp/axe/wobbles/darkrain/jeff/everyone else who's really good lol

The reason m2k isn't on here is because of his recent "declaration" of quitting smash. I don't know how true this is but his lack of passion makes me consider him a dead player. I still love mew2king though. I can't count the number of times i wanted to give up on marth and switch to spacies but then i watched some m2k vids.

Mango is just too frkin good.

i feel that as gay as hbox's character is, he has proven multiple times that he's the second best. Plus if jiggs was as broken as everyone claimed, then why hasn't everyone switched to jiggs and started bairing. That alone proves that it takes skill and we should respect hbox

Armada...is a frkin awesome player lol. I really wanted to put him as first or second (his dedication to the game by coming to america so many times in like...a 12 month period) but i couldn't seeing how mango and hbox beat him when they are trying.

Amsah is the reason i still play the game today. I rmbr this time i felt like quitting because no matter how much i improved, my friend could still beat me. But then i watched amsah's amazing comeback and realized that he didn't give up even when things looked hopeless (either that or he stopped sandbagging lolz). I still go back and rewatch that video every now and then.

I can't really say who's number 5 right now mainly because of the inconsistent tournament rankings. But i definitely want to point out that axe and wobbles and taj are top tier players without tier whoring. I <3 arizona

 

[V3ctorMan]

hahahah, another test post please ignore this... ^^

 

[Mind Trick]

there are friendlies at pound 4 of m2k vs amsah... m2k beats him in sheik dittos and beats his sheik with marth. yes, they were recorded

amsah is notorious for not playing focused in friendlies.
until they meet in the bracket of a tournament, you can't say anything about who beats who.

 

[Luma]

amsah in friendlies can suck so hard, i saw him getting 4 stocked and stuff like that from players he'd absolutely destroy if they would meet in the brackets....

 

[Nø Ca$h]

yeah amsah deff wasnt thinking things out in those friendlies when compared to his set vs jman.

 

[t3h Icy]

Mango: Cause of obvious stuff.

Hungrybox: I honestly think he's the best Jigglypuff in the world, whereas Mango is just a better player (if that makes sense). Hungrybox is more capable with all the Rest tricks and techniques, and he's extremely good at all aspects (spacing, DI, etc, etc).

Armada: Has a Jigglypuff problem, but doesn't lose to anyone else. Armada was actually beating SS in friendlies before their set, and he did manage to beat Hax. I'm uncertain what would happen if Armada meets any of the top Falcons again, but I think he can do it. He struggles with Falcon, but Jigglypuff seems to be a major problem for him.

I want to see Darc vs Armada.

M2K/Amsah: Honestly, you can't really say who's better at the moment, until they either meet in bracket (hopefully at Pound 5), or there's a very obvious difference elsewhere in the bracket. Until then, they're 4th/5th.

Axe: Like I said before, if he can continue placing in the top spots at Internationals, he can be objectively considered a top 10 player. Until then, there are some doubts.

Wobbles: Is seriously underrated. Likewise with Axe, I'd like to see how he does at more Internationals until placing him anywhere. He might be a top 10 player too, we'll have to see.

Spacies galore: Dr.PP is the 6th best and Jman perhaps for 7th, though from there, it's debatable. Jman, while consistently placing very high, always seems like he could be doing better. Maybe he'll get a break one national and win the whole thing.

And from there are the same as always: Zhu, Shiz, etc, etc.

I also think that if Mango doesn't win an international for a good 6 months or so, we might have to call Hungrybox the world champion. He is the 2nd best right now, and if Mango retires (either through not playing as best as he could or actually retiring), well then he won't be winning, and if he's not winning he's not champion. Still the best though, but if there's a noticeable improvement in Hungrybox, it might become skeptical. (inb4flaming)

And as always, there's still more international players we need to see. I think the most popular choice at the moment is Calle W.

 

[FoxLisk]

armada doesnt 'have a jigglypuff problem,' hungrybox is just better than he is.

 

[Iron Dragon]

Mango: Cause of obvious stuff.

Hungrybox: I honestly think he's the best Jigglypuff in the world, whereas Mango is just a better player (if that makes sense). Hungrybox is more capable with all the Rest tricks and techniques, and he's extremely good at all aspects (spacing, DI, etc, etc).

Armada: Has a Jigglypuff problem, but doesn't lose to anyone else. Armada was actually beating SS in friendlies before their set, and he did manage to beat Hax. I'm uncertain what would happen if Armada meets any of the top Falcons again, but I think he can do it. He struggles with Falcon, but Jigglypuff seems to be a major problem for him.

I want to see Darc vs Armada.

M2K/Amsah: Honestly, you can't really say who's better at the moment, until they either meet in bracket (hopefully at Pound 5), or there's a very obvious difference elsewhere in the bracket. Until then, they're 4th/5th.

Axe: Like I said before, if he can continue placing in the top spots at Internationals, he can be objectively considered a top 10 player. Until then, there are some doubts.

Wobbles: Is seriously underrated. Likewise with Axe, I'd like to see how he does at more Internationals until placing him anywhere. He might be a top 10 player too, we'll have to see.

Spacies galore: Dr.PP is the 6th best and Jman perhaps for 7th, though from there, it's debatable. Jman, while consistently placing very high, always seems like he could be doing better. Maybe he'll get a break one national and win the whole thing.

And from there are the same as always: Zhu, Shiz, etc, etc.

I also think that if Mango doesn't win an international for a good 6 months or so, we might have to call Hungrybox the world champion. He is the 2nd best right now, and if Mango retires (either through not playing as best as he could or actually retiring), well then he won't be winning, and if he's not winning he's not champion. Still the best though, but if there's a noticeable improvement in Hungrybox, it might become skeptical. (inb4flaming)

And as always, there's still more international players we need to see. I think the most popular choice at the moment is Calle W.

I don't know. I really am liking this list in one way but at the same time I'm wanting to put Dr. Peepee at 5th right now. I've done some thinking and I really really like PP.

I think with the skill level he is at now in comparison to where he was at at Pound that he could beat Amsah now. The guy is mad impressive. You don't just come that close with Armada with little Peach practice. He aimed his goal at top 3 for Apex and got 4th, yet could have just as easily gotten top 3.

He had beaten Hungrybox back at HERB3 but did lose to Hbox recently at TO6 but I think PP is more than capable of doing it.

PP if you read this I love you and your Falco <3

Also I would like to take some time to say of how much I love the Melee community. Even for as much as we argue and bicker at each other, it's all to keep this **** game alive. And it's alive, and it flourishes, and the discussion is constructive, and it's fun. **** <3333

 

[Archangel]

armada doesnt 'have a jigglypuff problem,' hungrybox is just gayer than he is.

hehehehehe, hahahahaha

 

[Dr Peepee]

Heck yeah <3 ID. =)

 

[ss118]

Meh everyone seems to just like putting up lists so I guess I will just put my opinion out there.

Mango - Pretty obvious, no one will disagree
Hungrybox - Well he wins, so he can have this.
Armada - I feel there are two bit of players who can take this spot, but both of them have lost to him in tourney so I can't say anything.
Mew2king - has to be somewhere. I would like to place him above Armada, but since he loses.... well, dayum. =/
Dr. PeePee - What's really cool about this guy is that he's still learning. In particular, he needs to learn about the Marth/ Peach/ Jiggs matchups(IMO), and other than that there's very little stopping him after that.

I think that is pretty much the guaranteed top 5 in the current smash world. everything else doesn't really matter; whether it be now or later, I'll beat everyone on it.....maybe....

 

[Dr Peepee]

Nah your opinion is right on me, I have a lot to learn still. That just comes from the general area I've grown up in(NC, as well as being at least an hour from any competition with only my now 14 year old Fox main brother for training), so I'm learning lots of obvious stuff the hard way lol.

No johns obviously, I'm just confirming these ideas. If I lose then I got outplayed and I have to adapt.

Edit: If anything, it could be argued that I should be lower on everyone's lists for that. It certainly plays into my list sometimes.

 

[ruhtraeel]

PP is 2 good.

What were the Falco only Apex results? I couldn't find them anywhere

But yeah, I'd put Hbox/Armada as 2nd/3rd and Amsah/M2K as 4th/5th.

I'm still tempted to put Silentspectre somewhere high cause he does so well against everyone... I wish he entered more tourneys so we could place him more solidly in the list

 

[Merkuri]

I really don't like how people keep placing Jman above Zhu, I believe that the majority of the evidence points to Zhu being better or at least them being even.

Zhu kind of wrecked Jman when they played at the Itunes tournament right before Apex. He is seemingly just as consistent at Jman in national tournaments and he doesn't appear to suffer from the same low tier problem that Jman does. Really the only thing Jman has accomplished that Zhu hasn't is beating DRPP recently, and although I believe in the no johns mentality, I believe that his victory was in large part Mango coaching him through the set. DRPP 3-0d him in a mm right after that.

 

[Mahone]

hehehehehe, hahahahaha

i ****ing hate people like you who don't give hbox the credit he deserves, i promise if you can even get in bracket at a national with jiggs i will give you $1000 bucks.......


*****

 

[Nø Ca$h]

LOL merkuri. jman has a low tier problem?? i guess thats why he always beats vanz and is the disciple of djnintendo (arguably the 2nd best pika).

shiz is said to be the best falco but axe 3 stocked him twice.

 

[GOD!]

i ****ing hate people like you who don't give hbox the credit he deserves, i promise if you can even get in bracket at a national with jiggs i will give you $1000 bucks.......


*****

He was just laughing at his edited quote (you know he changed better to gayer right?)

I chuckled too and I know hbox is good, but sometimes good=gay.

 

[Iron Dragon]

LOL merkuri. jman has a low tier problem?? i guess thats why he always beats vanz and is the disciple of djnintendo (arguably the 2nd best pika).

shiz is said to be the best falco but axe 3 stocked him twice.

a lot of people like to use this funny john for shiz regarding losing to axe....

and it's that he was too discouraged about losing to wobbles with the whole nana back throwing and just getting wobbled in general.

but if you ask me

i would think that going to a major tournament such as apex, and being how much dsw does go to tournaments.....

that he would make the most of how well he could do and where he could place. especially if someone PAID for your plane ticket.

 

[t3h Icy]

I really don't like how people keep placing Jman above Zhu, I believe that the majority of the evidence points to Zhu being better or at least them being even.

Zhu kind of wrecked Jman when they played at the Itunes tournament right before Apex. He is seemingly just as consistent at Jman in national tournaments and he doesn't appear to suffer from the same low tier problem that Jman does. Really the only thing Jman has accomplished that Zhu hasn't is beating DRPP recently, and although I believe in the no johns mentality, I believe that his victory was in large part Mango coaching him through the set. DRPP 3-0d him in a mm right after that.

Genesis:

Zhu's performance

Winners' bracket
Defeated Alex 19
Defeated SOS
Defeated dark mike
Lost to ShizWiz

Losers' bracket
Defeated Falcomist
Defeated vwins
Defeated Pink Shinobi
Defeated Hax
Defeated M2K
Lost to Hungrybox

Overall placing: 4/126

Jman's Performance

Winners' bracket
Defeated Ihavespaceballs
Lost to Axe

Losers' bracket
Defeated everlasting yayuhhzzz
Defeated DJ Nintendo
Defeated Romeo
Defeated SilentSpectre
Defeated Bob$
Lost to Lambchops

Overall placing: 13/126

Revival of Melee 2:

Jman's performance

Winners' bracket
Defeeated Bam
Defeated Tec0
Defeated Eggm
Lost to Dr PeePee

Losers' bracket
Lost to Mango

Overal placing: 5/32

Pound 4:

Zhu's performance
Winners' bracket
Defeated Eggm
Lost to Hbox

Losers' bracket
Defeated Adam
Defeated Th0rn
Defeated Zgetto
Defeated DarkRain
Defeated Silent Spectre
Lost to Amsah

Overall placing: 7/48

Jman's performance
Winners' bracket
Bye
Defeated Pc Chris
Defeated Zgetto
Defeated Plank
Lost to Mango

Losers' bracket
Lost to Amsah

Overall placing: 5/48

Apex 2010

Zhu's performance
Winners' bracket
Bye
Defeated Thorn
Defeated Cyrain
Lost to Armada

Losers' bracket
Defeated Hax
Lost to Dr PeePee

Overall placing: 7/48

Jman's performance
Winners' bracket
Bye
Defeated Diakonos
Defeated Dr PeePee
Lost to Mew2King

Losers' bracket
Defeated Eggm
Lost to Axe

Overall placing: 7/48

----------

Okay so:

1st: Mango
2nd: Hungrybox
3rd: Armada
4th/5th: Amsah/Mew2King
6th/7th: Jman/Zhu

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

I think we all have a general consensus on who he best players are, Mango is undisputed (even while trolling hard), Hungrybox is 2nd, and 3 (statisically Armada) but is a dice roll between Armada and M2K.

Personally speaking as far as potential goes, Dr.PP could easily secure his seat in the top 2-4 in the near future. I base this solely on his intelligent play he shows in all his matches and how he approaches each specific character matchup.

The man literally redefined the way the Falco plays against Jiggs, legitimately beating H-Box in tourney in a matchup that forces even Shiz to go Fox.

The way I see it, the only direction he can go is up from here on.

In regards to M2K/ Armada, both seem like players that if they peaked in a different era would've been the best player(s) in the world ongoing for years. Armada is the perfect blend of mindgames and tech skill, he's like the Ivan Drago of Smash, it's amazing that Mango could evolve so quickly at Genesis to defeat him. M2K's unmatched knowledge of the game and his equally advanced tech skill made him the best for years, however he's limited by zenith-level mindgames and his own personal frustrations.

As for Mang0, unfortunately the only player I think could outplay him (not just win) has little to no interest in Melee...

 

[joeplicate]

mango still has a ****ton of interest in melee i think

just no competition! and no interest in ****** the same ppl over and over

 

[JesiahTEG]

Ok I'd like to say a few things.

First of all, Amsah is most definitely up there with the top 5. (Mango, Hbox, Armada, M2K, Amsah) Those 5 are undisputedly the best players in the world right now. PeePee is the closest to breaking into the top 5.

Second, I can almost see and clearly point out each of those top player's weaknesses. That would take a long time though, and I don't feel I'm at the level needed for my opinion to matter as much, so for now, I want to leave a quote written by Bruce Lee, in a book of his I'm currently reading. This applies heavily to Smash, and it's one of the main things that can really describe Mango when he plays.

"The fighter whose movements seem awkward, who never seems to find the proper distance, is always being timed, never "out-guesses" his opponent, and always gives warning of his intentions before they become serious, is suffering from a lack of coordination. The well-coordinated fighter does everything smoothly and gracefully. He seems to glide in and out of distance with a minimum of effort and a maximum of deception. His timing is usually good because his own movements are so rhythmical they tend to establish complimentary rhythm on the part of his opponent, a rhythm he can break to his own advantage because of his perfect control of his own character. (It said muscles, i changed it to character for the sake of smash) He seems to out-guess his opponent because he usually takes the initiative and to a large extent, forces the reactions of his opponent. Above all, he makes his movements with a purpose, rather than with a doubting hope, because he has confidence in himself."

 

[strawhats]

I think we all have a general consensus on who he best players are, Mango is undisputed (even while trolling hard), Hungrybox is 2nd, and 3 (statisically Armada) but is a dice roll between Armada and M2K.

Personally speaking as far as potential goes, Dr.PP could easily secure his seat in the top 2-4 in the near future. I base this solely on his intelligent play he shows in all his matches and how he approaches each specific character matchup.

The man literally redefined the way the Falco plays against Jiggs, legitimately beating H-Box in tourney in a matchup that forces even Shiz to go Fox.

The way I see it, the only direction he can go is up from here on.

In regards to M2K/ Armada, both seem like players that if they peaked in a different era would've been the best player(s) in the world ongoing for years. Armada is the perfect blend of mindgames and tech skill, he's like the Ivan Drago of Smash, it's amazing that Mango could evolve so quickly at Genesis to defeat him. M2K's unmatched knowledge of the game and his equally advanced tech skill made him the best for years, however he's limited by zenith-level mindgames and his own personal frustrations.

As for Mang0, unfortunately the only player I think could outplay him (not just win) has little to no interest in Melee...

Who would that player be?

My guess would be either kdj/ken because they adapted to their opponents so well and i doubt they'd have very little trouble adapting to the metagame.

 

[ruhtraeel]

If Ken went serious in Melee again, I would have no doubt that he could rule as number 1 again.

But yeah, Amsah is definitely top 5, with PP being the closest. I'd put Hbox and Armada on a similar level, and Amsah/M2K on a similar level.

 

[strawhats]

the funny thing is though, m2k and armada always have the most epic sets. (they are imo the most entertaining players to watch)

I'd love to see m2k and amsah play. (however m2k has begun to show little to no interest in melee)

controller and mlg dallas ban johns.

 

[pheX]

Going off Past year tourney results

Mango
hungrybox
armada
m2k/amsah
dr.pp

I'd just like to mention that this is the truth.

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

Who would that player be?

My guess would be either kdj/ken because they adapted to their opponents so well and i doubt they'd have very little trouble adapting to the metagame.

Isai.



Anyone who watches his Smash 64 matches and how he's performed over the years knows that his skills are absolutely unmatched. Even after all these years (practically a decade) he has made top players from all over the globe, many of whom devote their lives to mastering SSB64 look like kindergartners in even the most lopsided matches. Considering how that game has such a low margin of error and reduced options on a whole makes that an incredible feat not seen in any other competitive fighting game next to Justin Wong in Marvel vs Capcom 2 (undefeated for 7 years straight).

His uncanny ability to adapt and position himself is similar to Mango. In fact, their treatment towards both games are quite similar. Both are so good in their respective genres they will lollygag and sandbag and use low tiers (except in Isai's case he's an expert at every single character and stage). Their mindset and reactionary style is indicative of their mastery.

What edges Isai out is his intelligence and overall experience in both games. Isai simply doesn't have a passion for Melee so he never really tries unless the player or matchup interests him. Mango behaves practically the same way now , but since this is his home game he will try hard enough to net himself wins to keep himself occupied on the top ladder.

IM*H*O, Isai probably could've been the best at Melee if he actually tried, but that's just my personal speculation from seeing his prowess in the original game. His fundamentals are unparalleled.

 

[Deleted member]

^ This man speaks the truth, except for the fact that how much you enjoy the game does affect how well you do. If Isai doesn't enjoy playing melee, then his performance will suffer because of that.

Everything he said about game dominance though makes perfect sense.

 

[strawhats]

i actually agree with you.

Isai and mango have similiar mindsets and are just overall too good at their respective games.

I'd love to Isai vs. mango (both super serious)

 

[Geist]

Yeah I totally agree with that.
I always see parallels between Mango and Isai, the way they combine creativity with flawless execution and adapt immediately to any situation is what separates them from the rest of the top.
imo Isai is still relatively at a higher level, I've heard he can beat any player in the world with any character (though the smaller community probably has a more scattered skill level or something to do with that).

 

[strawhats]

I just wish he would translate that to melee and challenge mango (he's the only person besides maybe ken, kdj, m2k, or armada that could even hold a flame to mango's candle).

 

[hungrybox]

Melee mango vs. N64 isai

the colors

the colors that would be seen

the colors...

 

[FoxLisk]

dude wtf. isai was never even that great at melee. he never beat ken in his prime, ken got curb stomped by m2k, and now mango has his way with m2k. there is no rational reason to believe isai could beat mango, that's just idol worship and random wishful thinking

 

[Merkuri]

^^ Actually Isai beat Ken numerous times while he was in his prime.

Just correcting you. I also believe Mango would have his way with Isai, I know a lot of people are just joking but all the Isai **** riding is annoying. If they would just stop with it, Isai may feel more compelled to play this game again.

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

Zhu kind of wrecked Jman when they played at the Itunes tournament right before Apex.

To be fair, it was really close (last game) and I lost to Eggm too in winner's. Losses matter too!

Agree with the HungryBox list

Mango
HBox
Armada
M2K / Amsah
PP

Within those top 6, I feel like m2k has the advantage within / out of those top 6. m2k beat Hbox the last time they played, and I feel like m2k would have a better chance of winning against PP as well. Armada is a tossup for m2k, m2k has always been close but still lost in the end while Amsah convincingly beat Armada (in NTSC). No idea about head to head, that'll just be something to look forward to. But outside those 6, I think it's safe to say that m2k has a better chance there too. I don't think m2k has really lost to anyone outside those 6 while Amsah seems to be slightly less safe (Hax / Lucky / Zgetto (?) / Remen (?)). Still hard to pick between the two though, it'll probably come down to the head to head if it ever happens!

 

[Nø Ca$h]

i personally think m2k is slightly better than amsah. all of amsahs sets vs armada (sans pound) werent nearly as close as m2ks sets with armada. and m2k also has closer games with hbox and has beaten him in the past..

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

You guys are making it like 64 and Melee are drastic departures. People confuse a simple analysis with dickriding simply because they disagree. Personally, I don't care if Isai came back to Melee, because even if he did it would be just for sport. I can see why he wouldn't care either way.

Isai stated before that he never really practiced Melee and only really played in tournament, and even then he only cared about placing in teams with Ken. Not that much of a shocking revelation since they were the #.1 team for years. Considering his lackadaisical attitude towards much of the game, he was considered to be the best Falcon player for quite a while.

If one was to honestly analyze their playstyles you would understand what I'm talking about. Both play very similar and can adapt blindingly fast to the point where their own habits and tendencies gets masked in the foray and they can't be easily read. This is why even the creme de la creme of top players get lulled into unfavorable situations and second guess themselves when playing against them.

There are major technical differences between 64 and Melee, but the fundamentals haven't changed. The fundamentals are why Super Turbo players like John Choi and Alex Valle (for those who know them) can be in the top of their game in SF4, and why Isai was a top player in a game he played semi-competitively.

 

[Theftz22]

dude wtf. isai was never even that great at melee. he never beat ken in his prime, ken got curb stomped by m2k, and now mango has his way with m2k. there is no rational reason to believe isai could beat mango, that's just idol worship and random wishful thinking

Isai never played this game seriously.

Also, Ken never got "curb stomped by m2k". By 2007 Ken had stopped playing the game regularly and it was only then that m2k was a serious threat to Ken.

 

[Divinokage]

*cracks knuckles* Well well.. I see that I have to break faces once again. I am underrated it seems.

Edit: I don't go to enough tournaments, i guess it's expected.. however.. when I do, there will be blood.

 

[unknown522]

kage beating mango again?