The "best" players

[Nø Ca$h]

kage beating mango?

lol when did that happen? kage could never beat mango.

 

[B_AWAL]

1.Mango
2.Hbox
3.Armada/M2K/Amsah


Mango - Obvious... He even wreck wit Mario
Hbox - Obvious
M2K/Aramada - I only say Armada wins bcuz of freakish things happening even though its consistent... Although Armada legit wins M2k cud still pull it off in all honesty they can go back & forth all day. Until 1 beats the other twice in a row I cannot b convinced that 1 is definitely better than the other.
Amsah - Beats Armada so he obviously has 2 b up there


O & M2K beat Hbox about a month ago in a set(WF) Lost 1st set in GF & proceeded 2 not care cuz he wanted to focus on beating Seibrik & FL best brawlers

M2K never focuses completely on 1 game... I honestly think that if he focused on 1 game or other top Melee players focused on both games M2K cud & wud beat em or @ least wud have a better chance
Every1 else is beast and no1 can obviously b considered better than sum1 else

 

[JPOBS]

^ lol at No cash, cant tell if serious

 

[Bamesy]

mango still has a ****ton of interest in melee i think

just no competition! and no interest in ****** the same ppl over and over

He knows ^

the colors...

LOL yayayaya

How about Japanese players?
Any word on that?
I've heard rumours and stories popping up, but nothing can be confirmed yet I suppose.
:O

 

[Iron Dragon]

lol @ people trying to compare people from old metagames and trying to speculate how they'd do now even though mango is easily and undisputably the greatest melee player of all-time.

^____^

 

[Nø Ca$h]

^ lol at No cash, cant tell if serious

yesss! im getting better at trolling ^_^

 

[JPOBS]

Im not sure ken/Isai/Azen etc would be anywhere close to top level if they came back, and even if they started to play seriously again.

they were the best back then, but thats because everyone else was terrible. The average level of skill has jumped by leaps and bounds the past 3 years.

Look at PC chris for example. Sur ehe still makes it out of pools when he attends cuz he's just THAT good, but he goes like 0-2 or 1-2 in bracket and isnt all that much of a threat.

Nothing against the old guys and their memories will live on as they have built this game into what we know and love, but none of them would be better than "really good" today imo.
But if they simply had never stopped playing like m2k, then thats something worth discussing i guess.

 

[FoxLisk]

You guys are making it like 64 and Melee are drastic departures. People confuse a simple analysis with dickriding simply because they disagree. Personally, I don't care if Isai came back to Melee, because even if he did it would be just for sport. I can see why he wouldn't care either way.

Isai stated before that he never really practiced Melee and only really played in tournament, and even then he only cared about placing in teams with Ken. Not that much of a shocking revelation since they were the #.1 team for years. Considering his lackadaisical attitude towards much of the game, he was considered to be the best Falcon player for quite a while.

If one was to honestly analyze their playstyles you would understand what I'm talking about. Both play very similar and can adapt blindingly fast to the point where their own habits and tendencies gets masked in the foray and they can't be easily read. This is why even the creme de la creme of top players get lulled into unfavorable situations and second guess themselves when playing against them.

There are major technical differences between 64 and Melee, but the fundamentals haven't changed. The fundamentals are why Super Turbo players like John Choi and Alex Valle (for those who know them) can be in the top of their game in SF4, and why Isai was a top player in a game he played semi-competitively.

using long words and capital letters doesnt make your argument less ********. never forget that. you have no valid points and you're wrong.

@underdogs: m2k was beating ken consistently for a while before ken retired. pc and kdj were beating him too.

 

[t3h Icy]

Armada/M2K Sets:

Genesis

1: Final Destination, M2K wins, 1 stock, 24% (Marth)
2: Mute City, Armada wins, 1 stock, 44% (Marth)
3: Final Destination, Armada wins, 2 stocks, 184% (Marth)

Pound 4

1: Final Destination, Armada wins, 1 stock, 177% (Marth)
2: Pokemon Stadium, M2K wins, 2 stock, 82% (Fox)
3: Battlefield, Armada wins, 1 stock, 90% (Fox)

Apex

1: Final Destination, Armada wins, 1 stock, 72% (Marth)
2: Pokemon Stadium, M2K wins, 2 stock, 84% (Fox)
3: Battlefield, Armada wins, 3 stock, 99% (Fox)
4: Pokemon Stadium, M2K wins, 1 stock, 8% (Fox)
5: Battlefield, Armada wins, 1 stock, 55% (Marth)

So from this, not only is Armada 7-4 in games and 3-0 in sets, but the only games M2K wins are the very first one and when he's Fox on Pokemon Stadium. Granted, all but two of Armada's wins were 1 stock.

So to anyone that honestly believes M2K and Armada are still even, you're dumb.

 

[Deleted member]

Stuff

Hmm, that's a good point, didn't know that.

 

[B_AWAL]

Armada/M2K Sets:

Genesis

1: Final Destination, M2K wins, 1 stock, 24% (Marth)
2: Mute City, Armada wins, 1 stock, 44% (Marth)
3: Final Destination, Armada wins, 2 stocks, 184% (Marth)

Pound 4

1: Final Destination, Armada wins, 1 stock, 177% (Marth)
2: Pokemon Stadium, M2K wins, 2 stock, 82% (Fox)
3: Battlefield, Armada wins, 1 stock, 90% (Fox)

Apex

1: Final Destination, Armada wins, 1 stock, 72% (Marth)
2: Pokemon Stadium, M2K wins, 2 stock, 84% (Fox)
3: Battlefield, Armada wins, 3 stock, 99% (Fox)
4: Pokemon Stadium, M2K wins, 1 stock, 8% (Fox)
5: Battlefield, Armada wins, 1 stock, 55% (Marth)

So from this, not only is Armada 7-4 in games and 3-0 in sets, but the only games M2K wins are the very first one and when he's Fox on Pokemon Stadium. Granted, all but two of Armada's wins were 1 stock.

So to anyone that honestly believes M2K and Armada are still even, you're dumb.

but... but... M2K is my HERO!!!

I agree... I hope that they play again & M2K wins tho

 

[ruhtraeel]

Yeah it's hard to speculate how people would do if they came back, especially Ken. I think unrelated to the ranking he got, he still would have a very good chance if he started up again. Yeah, the metagame wasn't nearly as developed back then, but people like Ken developed it. If he came back, he would probably continue his natural skill of adaptation and just adopt the new game style.

M2K needs to stop johning and start placing if he thinks he deserves higher than 5th.

Mango... adapts very very well and does stuff that works. Also very consistent. I wouldn't say he's really really creative, but I found after watching him play Falco etc. "Why didn't he do this? This is proven to work... Oh. Because what he did was even better. It seems so obvious now, why didn't I think of it?" I think he actually really thinks about the game while playing it, but a lot of people (like me) get sucked into just pure tech skill, aggro, not really thinking, and just remembering "this follows up to this at this percent"

Amsah has sheer skill and knowledge, just like Shiz. IMO best Sheik and funnest Sheik to watch. Lucien's pretty cool too.

Armada has a very good mix of pure skill and adapability/creativity/consistency.

Hbox just does stuff that works so well, and I respect him so much for that. He also seems to genuinely care about the community, unlike Mango at times.

Zhu is the greatest.

Mitchell Tang is the best player in the world.

 

[marthsword]

I feel like listing all our potential candidates.

Amsah
Armada
M2K
Hbox
Dr.PP
Shiz
Zhu
Tang
Kage
Mango
Jman

Idk if I forgot anyone. Also, I'm not a hater. But it's debatable that Mango is the best smasher of all time. Ken revolutionized the metagame. Chu revolutionized a character. Now Mango has revolutionized Puff. There's speculation that he's going so far as Ken did, and with his talent, could go farther. But until then, Ken reigns supreme. I mean, the only way you can really judge this is by accomplishment since Ken is retired. When Mango reaches farther than Ken ever did, then I would gladly give him the title.

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

using long words and capital letters doesnt make your argument less ********. never forget that. you have no valid points and you're wrong.
.

Such an intelligent retort, I have learned the error of my ways thanks to it. I like how you actually addressed my points too. Much thanks.



marthsword: I understand what you're saying in regards to Ken, but I think you have to realize Mango faces even more closely matched competition all the time, not only from his region but from abroad as well.

Before there used to be handful of excellent players but now there is a sea of closely ranked "bronze medalists" (not to be derogatory) who probably are equivalent in skill now. So the top of the top have qualities that are even more unique.

This isn't to say Ken couldn't come back with a vengeance (same could be said of KDJ), esp. in this mindgame-heavy metagame where tech skill has basically been maxed out.


Actuality > Potentiality, which is why tournament records are the best determinants of skill. However, like with both our arguments, we recognize that talent in these competitive games take as much raw talent as it does practice and dedication.

 

[Merkuri]

using long words and capital letters doesnt make your argument less ********. never forget that. you have no valid points and you're wrong.

@underdogs: m2k was beating ken consistently for a while before ken retired. pc and kdj were beating him too.

Just correcting information here. M2k only beat Ken once in tournament after he switched to Marth(granted it's the only time they played) and imo Ken had some legit johns. KDJ beat him more cuz of character match up than skill(KDJ would beat Mew2king as well). PC and Ken would go about even; the last match they played in tournament(evo 2007) Ken beat him.

 

[FoxLisk]

iirc m2k has a plus score against kdj. and i wasnt saying pc and kdj couldnt lose to ken, just that they were beating him. i know m2k beat ken with fox at least once, and beat him in tournament (also in crews once or twice) with marth. i dont think that after m2k beat ken the first time he lost to him again, although i could be mistaken.

 

[Merkuri]

iirc m2k has a plus score against kdj. and i wasnt saying pc and kdj couldnt lose to ken, just that they were beating him. i know m2k beat ken with fox at least once, and beat him in tournament (also in crews once or twice) with marth. i dont think that after m2k beat ken the first time he lost to him again, although i could be mistaken.

Mew2king does not have a plus score against KDJ, when he was acclaimed to be the best a lot of his **** riders just made that up. When you say PC was beating him, it implies that PC was beating Ken more often than not, and that simply wasn't the case. Mew2king's fox has an awful record against Ken, he's taken sets from Ken with Fox before but I think they're record is like 8-2 or something.

 

[PB&J]

its my turn next..oh

kage- bring your sword at all future tournies

 

[Mahone]

its my turn next..oh

kage- bring your sword at all future tournies

im not gonna lie, after watching you vs. drpp yay, i now know that you do in fact play this game

u still gotta step your singles game up though XD

iirc m2k has a plus score against kdj. and i wasnt saying pc and kdj couldnt lose to ken, just that they were beating him. i know m2k beat ken with fox at least once, and beat him in tournament (also in crews once or twice) with marth. i dont think that after m2k beat ken the first time he lost to him again, although i could be mistaken.

Wow, m2k dickrider right here, m2k never "beat" ken, whenever he beat ken, ken didn't care/had legit johns. None of you m2k dickriders understand that if ken came back right now he would **** hungrybox and armada (and mabye even mango)

king of smash.... forever

 

[Nø Ca$h]

ken and mango had different motives. ken needed money to go to college. mango just wanted pride. mango achieved his pride. after all, every list on here has mango at #1.. and ken went to college.. so hes deff not coming back lol.

hbox on the other hand just wants to be a part of the community. <3

still though... isai rules 64, mango rules melee, and m2k rules brawl.

 

[Geist]

still though... isai rules 64, mango rules melee, and m2k is banned from Brawl.

Fixed

Jokes aside though, I don't think any one person dominates Brawl at the moment.
Correct me if I'm wrong though

 

[t3h Icy]

still though... isai rules 64, mango rules melee, and m2k rules brawl.

You don't rule a game if you keep losing.

 

[TP]

Fixed

Jokes aside though, I don't think any one person dominates Brawl at the moment.
Correct me if I'm wrong though

M2K isn't at Mango level domination, but he is still clearly the best. Has been for two whole years, except for one span where Ally was slightly better a year ago.

 

[(*Jman*)]

these list r aways so funny cause the people that r posting the names who they think r the best r never the ones on the list >_>

 

[Luma]

so what? you dont have to be good the be able to jugde someones skills, same the other way

btw hbox posted aswell =P

 

[(*Jman*)]

well get better and maybe u be on the list someday

 

[Luma]

are you even trying to argue or are you just saying retarted stuff?

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

didn't you quit for like the 1000000th time jman? why are you here

 

[PoundSlap]

i think armada is the best cuz he tries very hard to improve and always travels to other countries for a lot of money and i think this should be honoured more.

 

[joeplicate]

Just correcting information here. M2k only beat Ken once in tournament after he switched to Marth(granted it's the only time they played) and imo Ken had some legit johns. KDJ beat him more cuz of character match up than skill(KDJ would beat Mew2king as well). PC and Ken would go about even; the last match they played in tournament(evo 2007) Ken beat him.

m2k beat ken with fox at MLG new york, right after ken lost to azen

if being upset over getting ***** = legit johns, then i guess you're right


m2k also had a "horrible record" because he was still improving, and because ken was the best in the world while m2k was still improving


after he switched to marth it was pretty much common knowledge that m2k would beat ken (or at least, that was the consensus at the time).

the problem is, this is all arguing over what the results mean, and not what the results were, so since it's largely opinion, someone's bound to get mad and/or say something stupid.

 

[Comrade]

*cracks knuckles* Well well.. I see that I have to break faces once again. I am underrated it seems.

Edit: I don't go to enough tournaments, i guess it's expected.. however.. when I do, there will be blood.

At this point I don't think there's a debate that you're the best ganon. (Tipman idolizers aside...)

Beat Mango again. And while you're at it, beat EVERYONE ELSE. I believe!

 

[Archangel]

S_A vs PB&J Winners Finals?????

 

[(*Jman*)]

y do i need to argue with u if i never heard of u lol no point

but yea i did quit but i go on smashboards sometimes cause people say funny stuff sometimes lol

 

[Nø Ca$h]

jman if you decide to go to rom3 mm me

 

[Merkuri]

m2k beat ken with fox at MLG new york, right after ken lost to azen

if being upset over getting ***** = legit johns, then i guess you're right


m2k also had a "horrible record" because he was still improving, and because ken was the best in the world while m2k was still improving


after he switched to marth it was pretty much common knowledge that m2k would beat ken (or at least, that was the consensus at the time).

the problem is, this is all arguing over what the results mean, and not what the results were, so since it's largely opinion, someone's bound to get mad and/or say something stupid.

Improving or not, the fact remains that Ken ***** M2k too many times to count.

Also the only time M2k beat Ken in tournament with Marth was at 0c3, and ken literally did not sleep the night before because he had to coordinate the tournament. If you look at the matches between Ken vs PC Chris from that tournament and at Evo 2007 the difference is obvious.

 

[Luma]

srsly jman, just stop trying to argue with people, its not one of your strong points

 

[(*Jman*)]

im not argue with u I NEVER EVER HEARD OF U

get better and maybe i will

no cash ight 5$$

 

[Luma]

so you only argue with people you have heard of? AHAHAHAHAHAH ****ING ****** =D

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

lol jman, he's just ****ing with you.

quit saying you're gonna quit if you're considering taking peoples money at rom

YOU'RE A ****IN FAKE QUITTER

 

[Nø Ca$h]

haters gonna hate.