The Best Players (Post Apex 2012)

[Levingy]

Yeah Armada is the best now. Hard to say surely who comes next. Hbox was very convincing at apex, but he didn't do as good before that. I would say second place is now between Hbox and mango. PP is third, though Javi might deserve that spot too. It's just that he has been only one national, which doesn't necessarily tell the whole truth. I mean, remember Amsah got like 3rd in his first national usa-tourney, and now he got something like top40 (divided 33rd). So it's impossible to say, but yeah Javi deserves some respect imo.

I think that atm Armada's biggest threat is Hbox. Hbox has clearly learned more about jiggs vs y.link matchup, and it's hard to say what will happen next time when these two take on it. Armada has to improve his y-link game, or figure something new out again. For some reason, I don't see mango or pp threatening armada anymore. Mango could be a threat if his mental healthiness(mindset and stuff) allowed him to play Jigglypuff again. But I don't see it happening as the mental block being too huge for him to overcome it. But if it happens, then armada's first place is in danger, because mango has so many good other characters than puff. If armada used y.link to counter mangos puff, then mango could use falco, fox or even sheik to counter it. As for pp, idk, i just think armada is going to be one step ahead of him from now on. I think PP also lacks peach training, as armada gets lot of training in falco and other spacies. Also, I don't think PP will beat armada with marth in tournament matches.

 

[Armada]

Secondaries dosen´t count?

Then it should not be a question at all to put be before Mango since Falco is the best char he has but he NEVER play him against me cause he says he can't beat me with that char.

=)

 

[Bing]

lmao owned in the face. By this standard, Hbox is first

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

i don't ever see kevin beating armada in marth-peach, *****es don't know armada in that matchup.

also armada, i personally consider you the best (dat 1st place prediction), but i still wonder if you consider picking young link against hungrybox your full potential, or more so are you fully proud of it? do you see it as a "janky" win at all?

I was amazed when you picked YL the first time, not because it was YL but because you were playing a different character, instead of learning how to level up further which seems like what you always do, go back home and learn more. is puff really that impossible? do you not see yourself winning vs hbox in that MU?


i've personally never been a fan of picking a character based on your opponent, just because you know your opponents character, and essentially you are counter-picking them before the match even starts, i feel like in a perfect tournament world, people should choose their character before they even know who theyre up against next.

don't think picking YL is wrong at all, it's just not something I would find myself doing. I just was curious how you feel about winning with YL against him.


original post by wobbles
lol trolled

 

[Habefiet]

This is an interesting point, mostly because I don't really understand why you find this so obvious. Could you elaborate a little bit on this? I find AJP's arguments legit.

(If Cactuar also wants to explain, I'd be glad to read him too)

You (and anyone else who is not interpreting the post well) should really go reread that, because Wobbles is very blatantly being sarcastic and giving examples of how many other players that have been considered the best have used different characters.

In my brief time actually posting here, I've found a good rule of thumb is to assume that AJP's arguments are intelligent and legit.

Armada (if you have already addressed this, then please anyone tell me and I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time, lol), what made you choose Young Link particularly? When choosing your counterpick, how did you decide on Young Link instead of, say, Fox? Or any other character with a good or at least decent match-up with Puff?

 

[Biglard]

You (and anyone else who is not interpreting the post well) should really go reread that, because Wobbles is very blatantly being sarcastic and giving examples of how many other players that have been considered the best have used different characters.

In my brief time actually posting here, I've found a good rule of thumb is to assume that AJP's arguments are intelligent and legit.

Armada (if you have already addressed this, then please anyone tell me and I'm sorry for wasting everyone's time, lol), what made you choose Young Link particularly? When choosing your counterpick, how did you decide on Young Link instead of, say, Fox? Or any other character with a good or at least decent match-up with Puff?

Woah, I don't know if I'm tired or if I just have to go practice my match up against sarcasm...

 

[Merkuri]

If PP is down 2-0 against Armada next time, then he should definitely try Marth. No point in picking up a secondary if you're never gonna use him when it really matters.

 

[Beat!]

I laughed so hard at Wobbles' post.

Then I scrolled down, only to find several posters who, for some reason, couldn't see the blatantly obvious (and hilarious) sarcasm in it.

Ah well.

Your sig is awesome btw, Wobbles. =p


@trahh
M2K switches between Marth and Sheik constantly, and only ever uses Fox for floaties. Are his victories "jank" (seeing as he doesn't fulfill your criteria for "tournament play")? What about Mango? And what does "jank" even mean and why does it matter if you keep winning?

 

[Ørn]

Lol @ the people missing the obvious sarcasm in Wobbles' post

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

oh wobbles is being sarcastic? fvck the internet, i don't know wobbles damn online persona

lol beat i hope you don't think im downplaying armadas victory at all, before i even bother responding. Seems like you're seeing it that way.

 

[Jonas]

Give him some credit, man. He did his best to write the most bull****ty post ever and you thought he was sincere =/

 

[Beat!]

oh wobbles is being sarcastic? fvck the internet, i don't know wobbles damn online persona

lol beat i hope you don't think im downplaying armadas victory at all, before i even bother responding. Seems like you're seeing it that way.

It certainly sounded a bit like it. My bad, then.

 

[Bing]

lmfao yay finally someone said it!

 

[Armada]

trahh: Winning two nationals in a row in America (no matter char) makes me proud.
Impossible is not the right word to use but I think Puff beat Peach with a big margin to be honest.

Even if Fox maight me the worse MU for Peach she still has a lot of stuff that she is better on then fox. VS puff I feel that puff is a bit better at everything and that's why I really don't wanna play that MU.

And since when would not counterpicking be legit?
A lot of players use it all the time but if I use it Im not better even if I have outplaced him three times in a row?

Btw PPs Marth is the best against Peach I think but in tournament I have full confident I would not lose to a single Marth player.

Habefiet: I wanted a char that had at least a decent MU against Puff but also a char he would not be ready for (Pound5). Hbox has a lot of experience against Fox and no one in Europe is that good with Puff (tekk is a upcomer but back then I didn't even know that guy). That scenario gives me a bad position since I have no one really good to practice against and that's a big reason why I think Y link would make it hard for HBox to train against Y link too.

 

[ajp_anton]

Marth is Armada's favourite matchup IIRC.

 

[Beat!]

PP's Marth is better against Peach than M2K?

whaaaat

Can't wait to watch those friendlies.

 

[Jonas]

Lol if Armada won the tourney with Peach only, I bet they would all go like "yeah, but Mango is good with several characters!"

 

[Habefiet]

Habefiet: I wanted a char that had at least a decent MU against Puff but also a char he would not be ready for (Pound5). Hbox has a lot of experience against Fox and no one in Europe is that good with Puff (tekk is a upcomer but back then I didn't even know that guy). That scenario gives me a bad position since I have no one really good to practice against and that's a big reason why I think Y link would make it hard for HBox to train against Y link too.

Makes sense to me! Thanks for answering. I've been curious about it for a while. Props for making that low tier of a character look that good. You're ridiculous dude.

Lol if Armada won the tourney with Peach only, I bet they would all go like "yeah, but Mango is good with several characters!"

True words you speak.

 

[Wobbles]

Yeah but even if PP COULD beat Armada 100% of the time with his Marth he still wouldn't be able to call himself the best because okay this is silly.

*

The issue with this argument is the same issue that occurs in all debates everywhere, which is "how do we define X." And in this case, X = the best player.

I always had a simple definition which was that being the best meant you won the most using tournament legal means. It doesn't matter if your tech skill is better than the other guy but you can't handle his simple spacing, or if your spacing is great but you get tricked into throwing out moves at the wrong time because he's unpredictable. It doesn't even matter if you're smarter AND faster but you lose because he gets, for instance, four rests every match; the end result is that his gameplan is superior because it results in more victories.

Now take a player who has a very solid gameplan against 99.9999% percent of players. He can beat EVERYBODY in ANY matchup with a single character. Except one guy. And for that guy, he has another character the dude has yet to beat anyhow. So this player just wins against everybody.

Oh wait we have that person here right now.

*

For awhile we called Mango the best and a lot of it had to do with how well he could use most characters at a very high level, and then his chosen few at the tip-top level. It reflected an innate understanding of the game and an ability to adapt and develop. And on top of that... he won. Convincingly, against many players, in high-pressure situations, all the fricking time.

Actually I have a personal point, which is that I make a distinction between the best PLAYER and the best COMPETITOR. And if there still is a doubt as to the best player for whatever reason, there really is no doubt for best competitor. There really is only one player who has demonstrated so consistently the ability to play well off his turf, to adapt to so many opponents, to counterpick--in what most people considered a gimmick style--and then repeat the feat multiple times, and to do it all in the high-pressure scenarios when everything is on the line, with so much of the crowd against him in so many instances that you can call him the best tournament player. And on top of that, he plays to win and doesn't give a **** if people like how it looks.

That's right.

It's me.

 

[Wobbles]

****. Wait. Sorry. It's Armada.

 

[Beat!]

You are seriously one of my absolute favourite posters. That ending killed me.

 

[Twinkles]

Wobbles is a genius.
All of his posts in this thread should go down in history as some of the best posts in Smashboards.
Right next to Star King's

 

[Habefiet]

It's me.

I died. Hard.

 

[Max?]

Armada is the best.

Falco players are fraud's, that character is easy as **** and a total scrub character.

 

[Warhawk]

Armada is the best.

Falco players are fraud's, that character is easy as **** and a total scrub character.

No character is easy to play at top level in this game on top of him probably not even being the easiest high tier character to play.

And there should be a like button just for Wobbles' posts, makes me laugh every time.

 

[Wake]

I wish I could sig that entire post Wobbles. Too good.

 

[erbanez]

Damn Wobbles, do work. I agree. How could you not say Armada is the best? He's humble, he's so skilled with a character that is viewed as the 5th best, he's faced so much adversity, and I'd love to meet him, he seems like a really cool guy.

On the other hand, you have an arrogant, cocky, overconfident player who doesn't feel that he has to try to be the best because there will always be idiots that like him because he can be such a ****** to other players in and out of playing.

I used to be like you. But then I saw the Armada.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Wobbles's sarcastic posts have been just killing everything. Sooo good. Now I'm just pissed that we didn't friendly at Apex.

 

[Max?]

No character is easy to play at top level in this game on top of him probably not even being the easiest high tier character to play.

I'm sorry sir, but you're just incorrect. Falco is easy peezy, and a scrub character, and anyone that uses him is in fact, a scrub.

 

[Strong Badam]

I hate falco

 

[twizzlerj]

I hate falco

this. I have to learn the match ups he pisses me off and I feel like the character is beating me half the time.

 

[Wake]

Hey hey cmon guys! Just float over the lasers! Fox is much much worse believe me.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

Hey hey cmon guys! Just float over the lasers! Fox is much much worse believe me.

Not everyone mains peach.

**** falco

 

[Deleted member]

falcos a *******

 

[Citizen Snips]

falcos a *******

PEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEWPEW DAIR 4-STOCKS

Summary of the matchup

 

[Deleted member]

falcon vs falco is probably my favorite matchup loool, really exemplifies one mistake = death

 

[Merkuri]

Anyone wanna bet on how long Armada's reign is going to last?

I'm worried that if he keeps ****** the U.S, he won't bother to come over here, because he has already proven that he is already the best player. I imagine he'll keep traveling here at least until the end of the year, so that he can have a legitimate reign as king, and not a few months where he was considered the best.

 

[twizzlerj]

what if falco makes a mistake nvm it doesn't matter what he does the ****..... might learn him just to counter pick falcos with him since I just can't really get peach.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

Anyone wanna bet on how long Armada's reign is going to last?

I'm worried that if he keeps ****** the U.S, he won't bother to come over here, because he has already proven that he is already the best player. I imagine he'll keep traveling here at least until the end of the year, so that he can have a legitimate reign as king, and not a few months where he was considered the best.

til the end of this year?

thats like 2 nationals at best.

we dont have a lot of time

 

[Citizen Snips]

falcon vs falco is probably my favorite matchup loool, really exemplifies one mistake = death

Yeah, and two good reads might be a stock? Maybe? Probably not.