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The Bakery - Realised I can still edit the thread title!

C

-Cross-

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So I've been getting a lot of Marth MU exp, and just some fun combo's you can do against Marth when he has RCO lag. At around 20~%'s while CG'ing, if you know he'll DS, then just shield and let him. While he's descending dair him into the ground, he should be low enough percent that he cannot tech. He actually gets double hitstun, because after the hitstun of the dair, he lands on the stage and suffers hard RCO landing lag. This lets you continue the CG or even SH FF dair for more combos, the possibilities are ridiculous.

It's also possible to take advantage of Marth's RCO lag at higher %'s with dair even though you won't get the guaranteed RCO lag. What you do is dair him and if he doesn't tech, then jab/jab2 and unless he SDI's and jumps, he'll immediately hit the ground and suffer hard RCO lag. At higher %'s, with a guaranteed f-smash, you can net some earlier kills. Obviously all these tricks work against anybody with RCO lag, but I find that the dair trap works most often against Marth, because he's in the air most often after he DS's, and the tendency of Marth main's to DS more often than other characters. Just a nice gimmick for those that don't know
 
1PokeMastr

1PokeMastr

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To be honest.. I learned the CG on Marth and can buffer it fine.

And, as for RCO Punishing... For damage racking purposes, I use Dsmash since it has the same damage output as Fsmash, just twice as fast. I will admit, Jabbing someone into Hard Rco is amazing. I just need to work on my Punishes for it. And honestly, you don't even need to do Dair -> Jab. You can Jab them right off the bat.



Another thing. Even though I can't Dacus/ BDacus.. After watching numerous Falco videos.. I still don't see a great use for it. Still appears to be useless. Especially when Falcos try to land a BDacus at Non Kill Damages.
 
kismet2

kismet2

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@cross that's amazing lol i really want to start implementing the jab rco lag fsmash.

@pokemastr the usmash at mid percents give you juggles for more percents. you'd be surprised at how many people hold away also you can react to your opponent's di to see if you should bdacus or not.
 
#HBC | Ryker

#HBC | Ryker

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Conversely I see that guy (^) play and it makes me wish I would put in the lab time necessary to consistently do it. It's hands down the best punish for someone who's going to DI away from you. It puts them in the air where you can continue to pressure their landing and puts them in a position they didn't expect to be in.
 
C

-Cross-

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@Poke, you do the dair b/c you can rack up damage. Of course you could just jab them, but then again you could also just let them land.

Also sourspot dair combos are amazing, especially at mid %'s where it can lead to guaranteed bdacus. Too bad the timing still throws me off, need more practice.
 
E

Elyssa Xey Hexen

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^Try sourspot dairs out of a chaingrab or spike which does not make them hit the ground or bounce off it.
1PokeMastr said:
Another thing. Even though I can't Dacus/ BDacus.. After watching numerous Falco videos.. I still don't see a great use for it. Still appears to be useless. Especially when Falcos try to land a BDacus at Non Kill Damages.
Click to expand...
I am of this opinion and in a similar situation regarding Bdacus. I have only ever spent 5 minutes working on it.

I think its horrible option except in the case of an air release attempt on MK. There I totally agree with using it. But, out of a dthrow as the most common case I think the better option is dash forward. Bdacus is completely ruined by anyone DI'ing up and you waste an opportunity if you fail or they do not DI away.

A single dash forward gives you time to see if they DI'd away or up. If up, you can full hop and give chase with Bair. If they DI away, you can keep dashing forward. Say they are at lower percents and DI away, you can shield to avoid damage from an aerial and regrab or punish an airdodge. At higher KO percents, you can keep dashing forward and wait for an airdodge or attack, then go into a regular Dacus once you confirm what they did.

Hard reads and punishes on habits is good and always nice to keep around for easy damage against worse or predictable people, but I'd rather practice the more guaranteed follow-ups.
 
teluoborg

teluoborg

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Yeah Bdacus is overrated because there are no true combo setups so it means you're forcing a follow up without having the time to look if it's suited for the situation. The only real use I can see is when it's buffered from a shielddrop.
Dacus, on the other hand, has the advantage to not need buffering, so you can use it as a long range punisher

Also I see you're talking about Late Dair, but all of Falco's sourspots are broken, late Bair and dash attack are even better than Dair imo.
Late dash attack eats landings so well it's ridiculous, and it pops the enemy up in a perfect jab/grab position.
 
kismet2

kismet2

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bdacus can be used from plenty of defensive options that you can use to bait for a bdacus kill like rolling, sidedodge, or airdodge. from dthrow it's definitely overrated but if people hold away and you know how to do it, may as well. i think most players di away from falco at high percents until they see a bdacus, because at high percents if you hold down after dthrow falco can only give chase with a phantasm to keep pressure. bdacus isn't godlike but it's definitely a gimmick that scares your opponent into di'ing the dthrow up.
 
1PokeMastr

1PokeMastr

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Actually, the ONLY time I see BDacus being Useful is out of an Air release.
Which works on quite a few Characters. It works on the Same Characters that Ike can Dash Attack out of an Air Release.

>>>> http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5721949&postcount=2

We may not have a Guaranteed Air release on some of those Characters, but, hey. It's an Option that can be Used for a free Kill if they force themself to air release.
 
#HBC | Ryker

#HBC | Ryker

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kismet2 said:
bdacus can be used from plenty of defensive options that you can use to bait for a bdacus kill like rolling, sidedodge, or airdodge. from dthrow it's definitely overrated but if people hold away and you know how to do it, may as well. i think most players di away from falco at high percents until they see a bdacus, because at high percents if you hold down after dthrow falco can only give chase with a phantasm to keep pressure. bdacus isn't godlike but it's definitely a gimmick that scares your opponent into di'ing the dthrow up.
Click to expand...
That's what I was getting at.
 
E

Elyssa Xey Hexen

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A long time ago I ended up making a list of who Falco could force air releases on (now I just need to find it again). The list was really short and no one was worth noting from what I recall. There was weird stuff too like grabbing squirtle in the air is an auto air release regardless of terrain. But if grabbed on the ground, no forced air release possible.

Although, there is certainly a decent list of people who Bdacus who I can imagine it working on. From memory: squirtle, MK, and Falco have pretty bad air releases. Shiek, bowser, falcon, wolf I know Snake has stuff on, so Falco can likely get a Bdacus on these characters as well.
 
E

Elyssa Xey Hexen

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There are probably more characters it works on, but from memory this is all I can imagine at the moment. With the extra height on the Usmash we could probably get something like hitting jigglypuff lol
 
teluoborg

teluoborg

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Well I made a chart for the air releases distances (for Falcon) more than a year ago, and Xeylode named pretty much everyone that releases on the ground, the other notable ones that release close to the ground should be Lucas and MK (maybe more, I'll post the chart when I get home). The other chars are too far for Falco's mobility. Maybe it's possible to get à FH Uair/Bair on Jiggs (Falcon can Uair, but Falco jumps way higher), but I'm not sure.
 
kismet2

kismet2

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we should make a chart for characters that we can do stuff out of air release and list our options.

EDIT: sooo i don't know if i'm late or what but apparently you can platform cancel with JUST the control stick lmao it's pretty awesome and alot easier to time

:phone:
 
teluoborg

teluoborg

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Welp you can land a dash FH Uair sur Jiggs when she air releases, just tested it. Don't know if it's a true combo though, but Falco has the mobility.
 
E

Elyssa Xey Hexen

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It somehow manages to derail to back to smash somehow. I do not really understand it either. Someone tell me if MIB3 is any good to go and see. A decade year old series sees a new release.
 
kismet2

kismet2

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i shall my falco birdling. we can also critique you any recent videos of your falco that you'd like to share. but hit me up on my aim though if you ever want to chat about falco things.
 
Xzax Kasrani

Xzax Kasrani

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kismet2 said:
i shall my falco birdling. we can also critique you any recent videos of your falco that you'd like to share. but hit me up on my aim though if you ever want to chat about falco things.
Click to expand...
i got a new AIM. xzaxfromthe215 add me dude.

@keitaro lemme come over friday night before this weekend. are you gonig to whobo?
 
M@v

M@v

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Watching keitaro on stream this weekend made my brain hurt.

Loses to tech chase, then 2-0s shugo, both his falco and mk. Haven't really ever seen shugo lose that bad before either.
 
Keitaro

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I'm currently 50/50 about going to Whobo. It mainly depends on how many entrants I get for SKTAR. If I get more than planned I may end up with extra funds that I can use to go to Whobo and help support Xyro's event.

As for Shugolicious, I have also beaten him last year 2-0 in pools of COT. I only cg spiked him once that set like I did this one but if he knew how to sdi the cg spike it could have change the set around.

I taught him how to do it after COT but it looks like he forgot already lol. As for his MK, I just got a pretty big lead early on so he was unable to catch up. Next time I see him I'll make him practice SDI-ing the spike until it is stuck in his brain.

He lost to DEHF 1-2 in Apex bracket so he is clearly good at the ditto, considering I played DEHF in friendlies for over an hour and never took a match lol.
 
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