Those people suck. Only have experienced players told me that it's an even matchup.
2. It is incredible...compare it to the 26 other characters in the game. Only Falco, Sheik, and Marth come close.
6. Why is it that when people think shine, they only think of shine combos? Shine is used to control spacing, combo, edge guard, avoid shield grabbing, etc. It can be used very effectively on any given character.
10. How many characters can outspace it effectively? How many players know how to play against effectively? With that one technique.... didn't Mew2king **** numerous players?
Things you said I want to point out:
A lot of hard matchups you say...? Hmmm
There's a lot of characters that Falco go even with?....Hmm
Guys....Fox and Falco suck
Meh, I wish I looked at the
minor details of my post more carefully so that I don't have people constantly breathin down my back.
Fox's combos are about 2-3 hits on average, what makes them so good is how critical they are. This is why it isn't incredible, but definitely good. Shine has its uses, but uses such as the ones you point it out don't occur as primary points in battle. The point is you are trying to kill your opponent and you do that by primarily combos with fox typically based around the shine. Controlling spacing, and avoiding shield grabbing are things I didn't mention. However is it really ever used to avoid shield grabbing intentionally? I have yet to see that the nair is cheap, but as far as I know every character that has a good amount of range (good being greater than fox's). I didn't mention M2K gets ***** by people who know how to deal with it I said that he mentioned there are numerous characters that outrange fox.
let me reword what I said: Fox doesn't have a lot of hard match ups, but when you are versing someone that knows how to use their character against fox its a pretty hard match, its not like the fox is having the easiest ****ing time in the world while the other person is working their *** off trying to play against him. He can get comboed horribly by characters regardless of tiers. Fox can get comboed by characters he himself should do well against.
About falco: Generally speaking, Falco goes even with everyone in upper, and (w/e is below upper). He does really well against fox, cf, sheik, and goes about even with everyone else. Even meaning its not harder or easier for either character.
Lastly I'm not trying to prove that fox and falco suck just that they are overated because of their position on the tierlist because of how well they do in tourneys as a result of their popularity. Eventually you are going to find a good enough falco or fox player that is better than you in a tourney and the final round will generally consist of fox and falco players, because all the people that played other characters eventually lost to a fox/falco that was better than them.
If Brawl was delayed a year or two, I'm sure opinions of fox and falco would eventually change drastically.
ControlFreak: Answer me this. Are Fox and Falco better then the rest of the cast overall. Excluding the other top 5 characters. In my eyes they are all too good. So answer me.
Look I tire of arguing with you. People in the thread have already positive repped me and supported me in the thread. So I take that to mean I know what I'm talking about.
FYI M2K = best Fox on the planet. He knows fox is a cheap gay *******. When he says Fox suxks he says that in regards to the other top 5 characters. He knows Foxes weaknesses and knows why he is broken. When he says fox sucks he doesnt mean it. He's mostly just talking. Plus he is tired of fox because he mastered him.
Anyway, the game has been out for 5 years already. That's plenty of time to see whop is and isn't good. And this is what we have today wtih the current list. And what inconsistencies with the list do you speak of. The top 5 have always been ranked more or less where there are. They might rise a few spots or drop one or two, but they have always been good.
But if nothing else. Answer my question.
Are Fox and Falco better then the majority of the cast overall? And yes. SHL is cheap. There is no lag, it combos, it can shield stab, screw up recovery, it can be done repeatedly, and it can stuff attacks that come out BEFORE THE ANIMATION OF THE SHL BEGAN.
Fox and Falco are great characters and are amongst greatest of the cast when played to the fullest, but that is only to the best of our knowledge at this point. This is my point, the tier list conveys who is doing the best tourney wise. What is that exactly supposed to imply? How good the character is. The only way to prove that fox and falco are really as good/broken as you claim they are is to have the fox/falco community narrow down to the same amount as the upper tiers and the tier below upper (forget whats its called =/)
You take it that you know what you talk about and that is in the eyes of those that agree fox and falco are broken for the same reasons you do. The tier list is a ****ing popularity contests which misleads people to believe fox and falco are too good for their own good. And that doesn't ****ing mean they suck it just means they are treated as greater than they actually are. Those people would have disagreed with me if you hadn't posted, you didn't change anyone's opinion by your statements.
Let me add I know that M2k is the best fox in the world which is even more fitting as to the fact that he thinks fox isn't so great as people portray him to be. So if M2K says that in regards to the other top 5 characters, does that make those 5 characters also broken and imply that he should be lower than them? The point being Fox has ****ing weaknesses and instead of abusing them ppl *****. If he was so broken he wouldn't have a hard time taking out the rest of the cast, but he does and in some cases he can get ****ing *****. By your statements it seems you know M2K really well. So he waists his time making posts against fox and thinks fox is broken while pointing out his weaknesses. If he was just bull****ting wouldn't that just be spamming the thread then?
Anyway, the game has been out for 5 years already. That's plenty of time to see whop is and isn't good.
I wonder if the low tier players that say there is more to be discovered (using examples such as moonwalking) would agree with this. Why couldn't we say the same statement when 'this game has been out for 4 years already.' Is the number 5 supposed to imply something more?
about shl: O yah? well yoshi can get people to 60+% with his dair, it must be cheap. Samus can shoot 2 missles in a row with missle cancel that must be cheap too especially because they can be used to ko and have greater knockback than shl. Luigi's wavedash is cheap because it covers so much distance and gives him really good combability. Pikachu's down b is cheap cause when time correctly people will get hit by it in every area they try to recover.
Shl is simply put annoying and again instead of dealing with what makes Falco, falco he is automatically cheap.
This is insulting to me because learning how to use fox wasn't that easy for me and to say that I'm using a cheap and broken character makes me feel as if my work is bull****.
I highly doubt it. Maybe Falco=Marth but I'm pretty sure Marth is better then Fox. Maybe not maybe I'm nuts
