Elemennopee
Smash Journeyman
Oh yeah, i forgot about all that. Besides, i've only been here for a month. What would i know?
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a) Yoshi's actually really bad, and should stay where he is.I think yoshi should be higher, along with C.F. and definatley G&W... i mean if you know how to use G&W hes really hard to beat... and the marios should be a tad lower
a) Yoshi's actually really bad, and should stay where he is.
b) C.F is good, but the people above him are better
c) G&W is good where he is.... if you know how to use fox, falco, marth, peach, c.f, ect ect (long list) you can easily beat a good G&W
d) (AND ALL OF YOU PAY ATTENTION TO THIS ONE!) Definitely is spelt like this
QFT, sadly enough.The tier list is who does better vs Space Animals in order.
Then it isn't just a list of who's better against the Space Animals then.Well Marth would be above Shiek if Shiek didn't do so well against Marth.
Pichu destorys Fox unless the Fox player knows how to play....Sheik actually destroys Marth unless the Marth player knows how to play.
Really? I thought that the chain throws, D Smash, and Float cancels would mean something. Is it because Fox can vert KO, Shine combo, and outspeed Peach easily?Cort said:No she's not. Peach does far worse against Fox than Marth does. Far far worse. What Doodah said is only true to some degrees.
Hmmm, how do you have so much green rep?Then it isn't just a list of who's better against the Space Animals then.
Which it never was to begin with anyway.
No, it was voted for in the back room, and the back room consists of a COUPLE(like maybe 2 or 3) people who know what they're talkin about, and then there is the mods and admins(no offense).The list was made based off metagame. And then some close voting, probably. It'll never be perfectly accurate..
Basically yeah, however, Fox and Falco are just as good as Shiek and Marth. Fox and Falco just have a move that comes out in one frame, giving them the edge at times.And because most competitive people use the space animals, the list essentially becomes who does the best against them.
Shouldn't G&W move up then, thanks to Dire?lol I guess the tier list is based on tournament results from what I've heard
generally, most low tier players have an edge because the people their playing against aren't used to it. if their mindgames are equal, the person who recognizes the matchup better should win.Shouldn't G&W move up then, thanks to Dire?
Not quite, as a matter of fact, the list was made by far more members than moderators and admins, almost no mods or admins actually DO visit the Sbroom.No, it was voted for in the back room, and the back room consists of a COUPLE(like maybe 2 or 3) people who know what they're talkin about, and then there is the mods and admins(no offense).
See, I agree that Shiek should have been top, and it was by a very, narrow margin that Shiek did not make top tier. In reguards to Marth, he has always been an issue on which direction to go with him, the real question is; is Marth top tier, or is Ken top tier? Ken is really just about the only really, really good Marth player out there, though there are other players good with marth a bit lower, they aren't exactly winning tournaments. M2K started using marth effeciently, you might see Marth make it back up top next list if he continues to use Marth.If this list was close to accurately show caseing the current metagame, then Marth and Falco would be on top(and KDJ's Shiek), because THAT'S who win tournies not Fox.
The MBR should have just put Shiek and Marth up top with Fox and Falco.
This list is flawed but w/e.
Shine comboing is a big edge, but as I said, I beleive at the least Shiek needs to be up there too. Fox doesn't really have any *terrible* stages that he can't overcome as a character, or any awful matchups either. He's really either even or at an advantage against nearly everyone. Falco is rediculously good if you can play really well, but human error usualyl leads to falcos losing in tournaments, as it impacts him more with his lesser recovery. I still beleive those two, and Shiek should be top tier. Marth I'm still split on.Basically yeah, however, Fox and Falco are just as good as Shiek and Marth. Fox and Falco just have a move that comes out in one frame, giving them the edge at times.
Just for reference, at FC3's low tier tournament first and second went to Azen and Ken, while third went to CHEXR- a midwest G&W player. This more or less backs up the mindgames/talent as Azen and Ken still got first and second, and a G&W player grabbed third.generally, most low tier players have an edge because the people their playing against aren't used to it. if their mindgames are equal, the person who recognizes the matchup better should win.
also, there are some extremely talented low tier players out there who basically defy tiers and are infinitely better than other players of that character. namely dire, taj, chudat, and many others. let's just say the top ten or so characters are basically set in stone, but anything lower than that is pretty vague and is all a matter of mindgames, talent, and matchups.
honestly, i'm iffy about tiers ever since i watched taj vs forward friendlies.
can anyone say O M G MEWTWO.
Ice climbers do pretty poorly on Peach. (zomg teh dsmash??)ChuDat doesn't count because he uses Ice Climbers, which in my opinion are cheap because they can fight evenly against everyone and have big advantages against some characters like Sheik. Their zero death grab combos, desynches, agility, strength, and wavedashing make them very, very good characters.
K, he uses Pichu too, but that's it.
lol <.<; I gotta give you that, at the time this tier list was made, Azen was still in his "low(mid) tier are teh win" phase and wouldn't play Marth. Yeah... I wouldn't be too surprised if Marth didn't make it back up >.> 2 good Marth players in the top... 5? I'm unaware of the current power rankings. And possibly a third with M2K.Ice climbers do pretty poorly on Peach. (zomg teh dsmash??)
and about the post above.... how about Azen >_> he's top with Marth... but I guess if you're not counting Ken, you don't count Azen either.
1.) Dire is pretty much the only good G&W player. Characters don't move up just because of one player.Shouldn't G&W move up then, thanks to Dire?
I thought he got 13th at a MLG. Maybe I was misinformed...but then again that's just one tourney.1.) Dire is pretty much the only good G&W player. Characters don't move up just because of one player.
2.) Dire doesn't win tourneys nor does he place very high in the major ones.
Iggy: When does Fox win tournies? The tier list should be made like this:
Top(3 or 4 characters): Characters that win tournies and characters that take out characters that win tournies(and win tournies 40%of the time anyway).
Falco
Shiek
Fox
(Marth)
High(3 or 4 characters): Characters that CAN win tournies,but have a hard matchup or beat a character in the "top". This is why I thinks its hard to place Marth, because
in the shiek vs marth match, Shiek definitely has a strong upperhand. But Marth does better than every other character vs spacies.
(Marth)
Peach
ICs
(C Falcon)
(Ganon)
Mid(6 0r 7): Characters that have a small chance of winning tournies,but may require another character to counter pick thier characters hard matchups.
(C Fal)
(Ganon)
Jiggz
Samus
Doc
Mario
Luigi
(Link)
Low(6 or 7): Characters that suck. Theses characters are used soley for couterpicks. Good Luck.
Dk
Pika
Young Link
Roy
Zelda
Ness
Game and Watch
Crap(5): Worthless. Why are these characters even in the game.
Bowser
Yoshi
Mew2
Pichu
Kirby(WHY IS HE SOOOOOO BAD?!?!?!)
characters in () are able to be in either tier. Characters are not ranked within tiers.
Bring on the flames.
Because after they lose one stock to the swallowcide, chances are they neer fall for it again. He lacks any sort of kill move, has little combo potential, short range. About the only plus side for him is his Duck, and Kirbycides. His recovery is predictable as hell, and most good players catch onto his playstyle about halfway through the match.I must say I love this post. +rep for you.
but why you gotta hate on kirby? I mean yeah he sucks, but he can be good if you use him against some one who hasn't played a good kirby. also you can suck people in and float to the bottom of the level and recover.
The tierlist cannot be based around how good they are against a bad opponentbut why you gotta hate on kirby? I mean yeah he sucks, but he can be good if you use him against some one who hasn't played a good kirby. also you can suck people in and float to the bottom of the level and recover.
kirbycide isn't a plus. it's worthlessAbout the only plus side for him is his Duck, and Kirbycides.