That rat, and his ensured damage

[ZTD | TECHnology]

yea thats the reason why i lurked into this thread. Its pretty sad to see a thread here upset about guaranteed damage when falco has the second best CG in the game and has the best follow up options out of dthrow



No technical, Falcos CG and transcendent laser are what give him his top tier status. His CG is like guaranteed damage, the CG forces those vulnerable to play more campy or be forced to eat a free 0-32% or even 0-65% damage. His CG alone can end in many different and creative ways, so you end up with about 70-80% damage after the CG is over.

It's a critical component to CG as Brawl falco especially if you want the stock lead. All you have to do is grab your opponent low % and play very well and it's easy to win the set.

Where Falco gets ***** ironically enough is when characters out damage him in the CG department, since a standing CG renders him pretty much incapacitated if done correctly. What a fitting way to counter Falco honestly.

I'm saying in comparison to Pikachu's good MUs not in general. I never said it wasn't animportant part of his game lol

 

[Enochuout]

yea thats the reason why i lurked into this thread. Its pretty sad to see a thread here upset about guaranteed damage when falco has the second best CG in the game and has the best follow up options out of dthrow



No technical, Falcos CG and transcendent laser are what give him his top tier status. His CG is like guaranteed damage, the CG forces those vulnerable to play more campy or be forced to eat a free 0-32% or even 0-65% damage. His CG alone can end in many different and creative ways, so you end up with about 70-80% damage after the CG is over.

It's a critical component to CG as Brawl falco especially if you want the stock lead. All you have to do is grab your opponent low % and play very well and it's easy to win the set.

Where Falco gets ***** ironically enough is when characters out damage him in the CG department, since a standing CG renders him pretty much incapacitated if done correctly. What a fitting way to counter Falco honestly.

You too are an idiot. Falco's CG requires space, its utility is limited by percentage, and at best, nothing is ensured after the opponent reaches 58%. Spouting about Falco's great CG follow ups or anything of the sort holds no relevance here. To repeat once again, we are discussing the issue of ensured damage. No degree of skill can prevent a Falco player from falling withing kill range once grabbed by a Pikachu player. The same sentence cannot be truthfully said with the players reversed.

 

[Juushichi]

My impression of this thread tells me to tell Falco's worrying about this MU you have three options:
- Get ***** by the occasional Pika you run into.
- Learn to beat, then beat the occasional Pika you run into.
- Chose a secondary.

It's just like me (a Mario co-main) vs D3 or me (as a Sheik co-main) vs Pika or IC's.
Now it's Sheik/Zelda vs D3, Mario vs Pika/IC's.
???
Profit.

 

[Enochuout]

DERP

Every time you make a mistake against Ike when above 50% he can kill you with a Fsmash. It's ENSURED, so it must be broken.

DERP AGAIN.

If Pika grabs you after you passed the 40% line you can footstool him out of his CG.


PS : please keep deciding who's an idiot and who's not, it makes you look so smart.

Idiot. Your statement about Ike implies that a mistake on your part ensures the outcome you described. Reading my statement that you quoted, I see that my word usage implies it is Pikachu's success in taking advantage of the situation that ensures Falco reaches kill range. Rather different situations don't you think? I'll quote it here again for you since it seems you had trouble interpreting it the last time you read it: "... Pikachu's success capitalizing on that mistake ensures Falco reaches kill range."

As for Falco being able to footstool out of the CG if it's started past 40%, I have not seen anything to confirm that. I've been told by everyone that if the Pikachu buffers the grabs correctly, there is no escape. I'd certainly welcome a link with evidence supporting your claim.

P.S. I'll continue to point out the blatant idiocy and humorous nature of those that keep blathering at me with such poorly thought out foolishness. Thanks.

 

[swordsaint]

Yeah enoch you're a prick, but you're legitimately wrong about Pikachus cg. anywhere after about 50% or so pika can't cg us.

the dthrow cg is from 21% > 50ish% at start. Sure pika can start at 0 and end at 100 but from 0-21 he needs space too. thats why being at a ledge removes his cg for the first 21%. And he can't start it after 50ish %.

So basically, Pikachus cg is VERY limited too. Perhaps moreso than Falco's. It's deadlier. But there is only a 30% gap in which he can perform it providing you're playing the Matchup right.

this is why our cg on them, removes theirs on us. If we get them above 50% (by getting the first grab). We can platform camp. They either get timed out or lose their cg.

You're *****ing is pathetic dude. You have no right to tell people they're stupid or idiotic because they disagree with you. Were you not born with nuts?

To clarify. Our ensured damage, REMOVES their ensured damage.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Eyo tech chase, You can ask anther who pikapika is, any body who is a pikachu main knows who he is.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I heard he uses more MK now =/ But I know who he is. I just forgot where he lives lol

 

[teluoborg]

Idiot. Your statement about Ike implies that a mistake on your part ensures the outcome you described. Reading my statement that you quoted, I see that my word usage implies it is Pikachu's success in taking advantage of the situation that ensures Falco reaches kill range. Rather different situations don't you think? I'll quote it here again for you since it seems you had trouble interpreting it the last time you read it: "... Pikachu's success capitalizing on that mistake ensures Falco reaches kill range."

Soo, let me get this straight : you're actually saying that Pika grabbing you doesn't require a mistake on your part ?
I didn't know Pika's grab was so broken. lol.

As for Falco being able to footstool out of the CG if it's started past 40%, I have not seen anything to confirm that. I've been told by everyone that if the Pikachu buffers the grabs correctly, there is no escape. I'd certainly welcome a link with evidence supporting your claim.

Well maybe you'd have noticed it if you had played the game instead of theorycrafting.

 

[DEHF]

@swordsaint I think Pikachu can start doing the dthrow chain grab before 20%, it's happened to me a few times, but I might just be bad at getting out of it.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

I also thought that the full grab can be started earlier than 20%. Then again I don't play this MU anymore. It's happened to me as well and I thought that I read it somewhere in the Pika boards.

 

[Ussi]

I heard he uses more MK now =/ But I know who he is. I just forgot where he lives lol

He uses MK for san. Don't know about him using it for anyone else..

 

[da K.I.D.]

He uses MK on me and san only.

I know pikachu way too well.

 

[Enochuout]

I swear I remember Michael Hey showing me that Falco can't do anything at all, even if first grabbed post 40%. I'd love to be wrong in that regard, so I'd still like to see a link to a reputable post showing evidence that Pikachu's CG initiation is limited to the 19-40% window.

 

[swordsaint]

I swear I remember Michael Hey showing me that Falco can't do anything at all, even if first grabbed post 40%. I'd love to be wrong in that regard, so I'd still like to see a link to a reputable post showing evidence that Pikachu's CG initiation is limited to the 19-40% window.

Instead of ignoring people, you'd know it's 21% > 50 odd percent.

Of course it can be done post 40 if the beginning chance ends within the 50 range.

Dehf: It sounds like you're bad at getting out of it, if you hold towards pikachu when he dthrows you before 21% and jump you footstool pikachu.

Enoch, the reason it doesnt work after 50 odd percent is because the knockback falco recieves is increased, but the dthrow isn't staled enough to keep falco in CG range.

The reason I say pikas is more limited, is because our cg percent and space perfectly counters theirs. To clarify;

Pikachus 0-21 requires space, falcos CG requires space. Falco's ability to remove Pikachus 0-21 by staying at a ledge but retain his own means he's in a better position there.

Falco has the chance to get the grab first because his starts at 0, whereas pikas starts at 21% (assuming no dthrows)

 

[PikaPika!]

Why do people keep saying I use MK, I use him on Goggles, San, and every now and then for doubles otherwise my MK is complete trash and my pika does much better

 

[Tagxy]

Dang, what a long thread on this subject, lol.

Pikas CG goes from 19% onwards. It might be a little earlier then 19% though. Around 50%ish pika cant start the CG anymore, but I dont think falco can ever footstool out unless the CG is started too early. And the later its started the less damage it does.

Also the cg technically start at 0%. I cant remember if it was ever tested, but pikachu has a boost pivot grab as well. Ive used it on DDD before to CG but havent really learned to do it well or to test if it works on falco.

Also while its certainly a feat to beat pikpiks, I think its generally regarded that hes not good at the Falco MU and cant cg properly. Hes said so himself.

I think falco can do OK in this MU, but that might mostly be because pikachu players dont really bother to learn much about the MU anymore. It might be awhile to see how well falco really can do in this MU when both players of about equal skill know the MU well. I've played larry quite a few times so I think Im learning the MU pretty well, but he's much better then me overall . However given equal skill and knowledge in the MU, I think that Falco should not be winning too much.

Last note, I think flat stages like FD are better for camping then trying to platform camp. SV might be better then FD though.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Why do people keep saying I use MK, I use him on Goggles, San, and every now and then for doubles otherwise my MK is complete trash and my pika does much better

Name search bait.

 

[Choice]

I swear I remember Michael Hey showing me that Falco can't do anything at all, even if first grabbed post 40%. I'd love to be wrong in that regard, so I'd still like to see a link to a reputable post showing evidence that Pikachu's CG initiation is limited to the 19-40% window.

For a fresh dthrow cg window is 18-46%.

the more stale the larger the window.

 

[Vlade]

Let's keep the discussion civil and not degrade to "lmao you're an idiot because you disagree with me"

You guys are better than that

 

[Enochuout]

For a fresh dthrow cg window is 18-46%.

the more stale the larger the window.

Thank you.