Legality Tentative: MBR Official Ruleset for 2012

[Beat!]

Just learn the matchup. >_>

 

[Cactuar]

Omg gais. Gais. I just had.

The best.

Idea.

We should run separate tournaments.


Where only non-viable characters are legal.

:slowpoke:

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

 

[Geenareeno]

Define non-viable.

 

[Cactuar]

Nonviable
adj.
1. Not capable of living or developing: a nonviable fetus.
2. Not workable or practicable: a nonviable idea.

 

[Kal]

Oh hey, I like this discussion. My favorite part is when people come in and explain how "non-viable" is a stupid term. Because, you know, it's totally reasonable to expect that Link will win a tournament in the future.

Though Geenareeno may just be looking for a cut-off. I say, as long we get rid of Falco, I'm ok with whatever cut-off Cactuar picks.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Well if you define viable as winning a national in the past 2 years, I think falco, puff and peach all should be banned.

Fox and Sheik mains rejoice!

 

[Cactuar]

Viable is: Capable of winning a national. It has nothing to do with actually have won a national. As such, the actual break point of viable/non-viable is entirely opinion. It is possible for a character to drop from viable to non-viable over time due to metagame progression, as well as a character to rise from non-viable to viable.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Players are capable of winning tournaments and players play characters, therefore a viable character is a character that is played by a player.


After every character that players play is banned, we will be left with Game and Watch.

 

[Cactuar]

I play Game and Watch. I guess this is why low tier tournaments don't exist anymore.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Shhh cactus you're hurting the conspiracy

 

[Cactuar]

I am the conspiracy

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I know but they don't know tha--

Damnit.

 

[Cactuar]

Edit2: I'm just gonna...

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Did you just make angelina jolie's butt a metaphor for your posts in this thread?

 

[Cactuar]

Catherine Zeta-Jones' butt, but yes.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I should have guessed, jolie's butt is bigger than that

 

[Kal]

Cicero.

Chicago was an awesome musical.

 

[DeadLastClown]

Fox and Sheik mains rejoice!

Ah yes, the Bun ya toofs.

 

[Bing]

Cicero.

Chicago was an awesome musical.

And all that Jazzzzzzz


<3 Chicago <3

 

[N1c2k3]

Umm...

This might be coming from complete ignorance since I don't keep up with the competitive rules much anymore, but this seems pretty darn weird.

I feel like a noob saying this, but what happened to playing Melee for fun? For clarity's sake: I firmly refute anyone that says playing this game at a competitive level isn't fun; there's nothing to me that's more enjoyable than playing cuthroat Melee as hard as you can, using every cheap trick/tactic you know to destroy your opponent, but I firmly believe you have to think about how a rule is going to affect the fun factor as well, even in a competitive setting. To me, more variety = more fun. Maybe that's not a generally-shared sentiment, idk.

I guess I just don't understand the logic behind the limitation of more and more stages making it more fair for more characters. I personally think that more of the cast (Mid-tier and down) have some non-neutral stages that benefit them more.

And speaking of G&W: I almost 4-stocked Dire on Brinstar once with Falco. It was his counter-pick. Should Brinstar be banned to protect G&W? Or should he just maybe not CP Brinstar against Falco? To me, the 2nd option makes more sense.

I don't have the time to read through the whole thread, so if there's something similar to this that was address earlier, please let me know.

 

[stelzig]

I think you'll find that alot of people are against those stages exactly because they don't enjoy playing on them as much.

 

[KrIsP!]

@nick
Simple answer is simple. Friendlies=for fun. Tourney matches= for results. You can learn or have fun from both but in the end, why should someone lose because the stage gives more of an advantage than it should. you can play whatever the hell you want in friendlies but there are actual reasons for each stage ban and each reason is because it effects results in some way.

Also, you can still ask to CP pokefloats, if no one's worried about it being broken and the TO is looking the other way you can go ahead and have some fun.

 

[RaphaelRobo]

It's been 2012 for a while. Is this ruleset still tentative?

 

[Bing]

I want to play a legit tournament set on Jungle Japes!

 

[Xyzz]

Also, you can still ask to CP pokefloats, if no one's worried about it being broken and the TO is looking the other way you can go ahead and have some fun.

Most tournaments use gentlemen's rule anyways, so the TO can actually watch as well

 

[Kal]

snip

Hey man, I agree with you wholeheartedly. The problem is that most of the community sees otherwise. In my opinion, if you learn to handle these stages properly, they become fun, the same way you learn to enjoy (or at least tolerate) matchups that suck (e.g. playing against Jigglypuff or Falco).

The community's trend is a scrubby one, and it always has been. Players decide they don't like something, so they ban it. Some of them will be explicit and just ban things because they are disliked (an obvious slippery slope), but others will explain why they dislike it and ban it for reasons other than brokenness. Such is the way of the scrub.

"It's unfair that I have to learn the timing of Rainbow Cruise in order to fight there."

Don't get me wrong. Some things are broken and worth banning. Some, in fact, are very obviously worth banning (Hyrule, for example). But most of the bans are just "I don't like that stage."

 

[Strong Badam]

I really don't know why you keep bringing up that characters are comparatively annoying/dumb to deal with. We use different banning criteria for stages than for characters, and it's for good reason, otherwise I could easily see half of the cast being banned.

 

[Kal]

I don't think that post made any claim that there shouldn't be different criteria. Just that this feeling of disliking the stages arises from a lack of experience and understanding, the same way a feeling of disliking a matchup arises.

 

[Strong Badam]

You assume that the MBR dislike the stages due to a lack of experience and understanding; while this is certainly true for a large amount of newer players, it is not true for much of the MBR and the stages were banned based on the criteria we've explained approximately 80million times in this thread, not because we dislike the stages or feel that they're dumb. Hell, we even tried to reintroduce Jungle Japes into doubles, which received a lot of backlash and most TO's decided to not include it regardless, and even if it was most players didn't CP there. Like ever.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

We use different banning criteria for stages than for characters, and it's for good reason, otherwise I could easily see half of the cast being banned.

That goes both ways. If we used the same criteria for banning characters and stages, I could easily see half of the stages being legal. Depends on which criteria you end up using.

 

[Kal]

I guess I should have made this clearer, but I use the phrase "most of the community" to refer to most of the community. Not necessarily the MBR. The MBR has made it clear that many players have different justification for banning these stages, though most of it falls down to "I don't like that stage."

And really, your reasons for disliking a stage could not matter less. Unless your reasoning is "that stage is broken." Which it's not for most of the stages.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I wish I argued against Rainbow Cruise being banned harder. I love that stage.

 

[Kal]

That stage is so ****ing awesome. <3

 

[Twin_A]

Question (and not sure if it's brought up yet since I haven't had a chance to read):
If there are two banned stages in teams, won't that give teams that rely on floaties an unfair disadvantage due to the two larger stage options both possibly being banned at once (Kongo and dreamland)? While it's true that there are other decent sized team stages, there is no denying the usefulness of selecting those stages with high ceilings (much like a fix would counter pick yoshis or stadium due to the low ceiling).

 

[Oracle]

Look at it as more of eliminating a huge advantage than providing a disadvantage

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I actually saw the two ban things a few weeks ago when i was making tourney thread but forgot to mention it. I don't remember if we ever discussed this

 

[Geenareeno]

So Cactuar what did you gather from the 166 pages of discussion that went on?

 

[Cactuar]

Haters gonna hate.

 

[The Star King]

So Cactuar what did you gather from the 166 pages of discussion that went on?

That some people should really switch to max posts per page.

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