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Legality Tentative: MBR Official Ruleset for 2012

unknown522

Some guy
Joined
Aug 17, 2005
Messages
8,048
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Cactuar, you should edit this. Currently the DSR and DSRM are backwards. For myself personally, that is why I had them mixed up, but when Sheridan explained it on the MIOM stream, they were opposite to this:
  • Standard DSR: A player/team may not counterpick to a stage they have won on.
  • DSR Modified: A player/team may not counterpick to the stage they last won on.
 

Grim Tuesday

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
13,443
Location
Adelaide, South Australia, AUS
If the first stage of the set is actually neutral, as it's supposed to be, there's no real reason for a player to not be able to pick it again in the set
It just gives the player who loses the first game 1 extra stage ban than the winning player, like it's punishing them for winning lol
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
If the first stage of the set is actually neutral, as it's supposed to be, there's no real reason for a player to not be able to pick it again in the set
It just gives the player who loses the first game 1 extra stage ban than the winning player, like it's punishing them for winning lol
My ruleset addresses that. :cool:
 

FerrishTheFish

Smash Ace
Joined
May 22, 2011
Messages
633
Location
Hyrule Honeymoon
I think the intent, if not the effect, of the DSR and variants is to diversify the stage selection in a given set. The legal stages are legal because we've decided they test skills worth testing. There is no real reason that any one legal stage should be favored over any other legal stage in determining the winner of a set.

DSR and variants prevent a player from skewing the result of the set by the selection of a specific stage upon which they have already won. I don't really see it as a punishment per se.

But I can see how CPing could allow a player to skew the result of the set by the selection of a specific stage upon which they expect to win.

Instead of stage-striking, banning, and CPing, I vote we have each player permanently ban one stage (out of all six legal stages) for the entire set, and for each game select the stage randomly without repetition.
 

Beat!

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
3,214
Location
Uppsala, Sweden
Instead of stage-striking, banning, and CPing, I vote we have each player permanently ban one stage (out of all six legal stages) for the entire set, and for each game select the stage randomly without repetition.
I'm not sure I want this to happen, but I'd definitely be interested in trying it out.
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
Joined
Mar 10, 2006
Messages
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Philadephia, PA
Cactuar, you should edit this. Currently the DSR and DSRM are backwards. For myself personally, that is why I had them mixed up, but when Sheridan explained it on the MIOM stream, they were opposite to this:
The way it is currently is how it was in the previous ruleset and every ruleset before it afaik, as I just copy and pasted that particular piece. "I thought they were the other way around" is not an excuse when definitions are provided within the ruleset regarding what each means. Dave himself saying that it is one way or the other is not important, as the nature of language and definition is democratic, and the reviewing group for the ruleset, which was the entire MBR at the time including Sheridan and you, all agreed to this (or glanced at it instead of reading it thoroughly, because everyone in the MBR did essentially nothing).

I'd rather just remove the titles of DSR and DSRM and insert a line like:

Stage Elimination: Stages may one be used once per set.
or
Stage Elimination: Players may not counterpick to any stage that they have previously won on.
or
Stage Elimination: Players may not counterpick to any stage they have previously counterpicked to.

Associating the titles of DSR/DSRM with an assumed meaning has created problems. I'm really tired of people trying to put a name on these rules because they want some kind of credit. It instantly makes it feel less professional/polished.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
I don't think anyone named the rule trying to get credit. It's just easier to refer to a rule by a name rather than by explaining it every time. If you host a local, you can say "we're using DSR" or "wobbling is banned" much more concisely than if you had to say "you cannot pick the last stage you won on" or "Ice Climbers players are not allowed to lock players in continuous stun during a grab for more than X seconds".
 

Cactuar

El Fuego
BRoomer
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Philadephia, PA
Wobbling is unanimously agreed upon in definition. DSR/DSRM is not. You're also bringing up an example of a thing that would be complicated to explain if the person had no prior knowledge of it and trying to compare it to something that is very simple.

The current problem is that people say "we're using DSR" and then the response is "errr... which one is that?"

I'd much rather just be able to ask "What type of stage elimination are you using?" and have the response be "You can't use the stage you last won on" or "You can't use any stage you've won on". If you really need it to be more concise than that...

I think you have a problem with this because if someone were to ask "What type of stage elimination are you using?" and you replied "BSR", the explanation would be longer than 8 words. Please keep in mind that I don't care about BSR in my prior statements, and that I'm not referring to your proposed rules, only existing ones.

If your proposed rules ever became a thing, it would definitely be easier if everyone simply knew what it was before hand and called it BSR, but "Alternating Bans w/ No Repeats" sounds better. It is slightly less concise, but gives more of an idea of what the actual rule is than "This is Bones' Stupid Rule". I don't like DSR/DSRM because the names themselves give no indication whatsoever as to what the actual rule is.
 

Bones0

Smash Legend
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
11,153
Location
Jarrettsville, MD
Wobbling is unanimously agreed upon in definition. DSR/DSRM is not. You're also bringing up an example of a thing that would be complicated to explain if the person had no prior knowledge of it and trying to compare it to something that is very simple.

The current problem is that people say "we're using DSR" and then the response is "errr... which one is that?"

I'd much rather just be able to ask "What type of stage elimination are you using?" and have the response be "You can't use the stage you last won on" or "You can't use any stage you've won on".
Well it was agreed upon until the MBR ****ed it up... :cool:
 
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