TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[UncleSam]

you're still taking into account gameplay mechanics

yawn, crap, tired, but I don't want to sleep.
EDIT: MRG I've explained multiple times Ganondorf isn't slow, my god

 

[ShinTwist-ScreamPaste]

Ganon can't see, he has a sword infront of his eyes, because he put it there to gaurd his face.. Link shoots his ungaurded arm-pits, and wins.

you're still taking into account gameplay mechanics

No, I'm not, I 'm taking canon information from the games. Know what IS a gameplay mechanic? Ganon blocking a lot.

 

[REL38]

@MRG

a jaguar is more nimble than a lion, but the lion's still gonna win by strength.

Besides, what are the chances Link's gonna be able to shoot Ganon's head while he's moving. Not very probable.

And if Link stabs at Ganon's leg, he's gonna be open so Ganon is gonna gut Link in the abdomin.

Gg

@new guy:
Sonic was able to crush robots by ramming into them. That's game physics. In RL, Sonic can't do all of that stuff. He lacks the visible leg muscles to run at high speeds.

So Link was able to stop gorons or whatever. How does that translate into RL?
So Link has muscles that are SOO compact that even though every muscle tissue is wafer-thin, they can support 100 lbs each?

No.

We can draw SOME game mechanics and physics into these MU's, but not many.

And the characters with guns have usually won.

Maybe you should lurk this thread by looking at older MU's to see how they've been turning out to get a better idea of how things are working here.

 

[Sieguest]

I understand physics, you're not understanding my stance on it. Real life physics involved in that would obviously kill a /normal person/. Link is not a normal person, at all. He also threw the Goron after stopping it, the boots anchored him.

I don't as of yet...but the way I see it now ...we would be eliminating the whole thought of physics then...
We can't let Link defy physics because of his canon...
true he is physically more capable...but Link's size compared to the amount of force he was impacted with in the goron encounter wouldn't be possible to survive...physically speaking

Link is human
humans have internal organs
internal organs hit with such a force would rupture=death
that is why something inhuman like that is not realistic...it still breaks real world physics

Except we saw Link win a sword lock, and we know these are not normal people. If we apply real life physics to them, we don't need to make them into normal people. It's only unrealistic for a normal person to do these things, a theoretical super human, which these two are, could do these things.

Even so, if we ignore the Goron thing, Link still wins in a sword lock, so Ganon's still not taking the advantage in strength.

Once again that's a game mechanic pulled from canon to further a plotline...it disregards real world physics in multiple ways...making it unviable, yes ganon blocking a lot is mechanic- but it is expressive of the fact that Ganon has ALWAYS been a formidable swordsman. He's not superhuman- be he's formidable enough to maybe master Link from what I've read

theoretically superhumans don't exist....
nothing on this planet breaks physics...physics governs how we even stay grounded on this planet...how we walk, why getting hit with somethings are dangerous.

 

[†Slader7†]

Ganon can't see, he has a sword infront of his eyes, because he put it there to gaurd his face.. Link shoots his ungaurded arm-pits, and wins.

No, I'm not, I 'm taking canon information from the games. Know what IS a gameplay mechanic? Ganon blocking a lot.

Yet again, he doesn't have to directly put his sword directly in front of his face:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBNOmcOmD1w
If Ganon's strength allows him to hold his sword with one hand and seeing how he is skillful with his weapon he could possibly do what happens in the video.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Football field = 100 yards.
1 mile = 1,617y (yards).
23mph*1,617y = 37,191 yph (yards per hour).
37,191 yph/3600s (one hour) = 10.33 yps (yards per second).
100y/10.33yps = 9.68s


Here it is.

 

[ShinTwist-ScreamPaste]

So Link was able to stop gorons or whatever. How does that translate into RL?
So Link has muscles that are SOO compact that even though every muscle tissue is wafer-thin, they can support 100 lbs?

No.

Except this would be a perfectly viable way to look at it in real life physics, so it doesn't break any rules.

Ignoring the characters actual abilities is a flawed way to argue, because it's not actually arguing the characters at all, it's arguing look a likes. Nothing about stopping the goron defies physics, because he has an anchor, it simply shows great strength and durability.

 

[†Slader7†]

Except this would be a perfectly viable way to look at it in real life physics, so it doesn't break any rules.

Ignoring the characters actual abilities is a flawed way to argue, because it's not actually arguing the characters at all, it's arguing look a likes. Nothing about stopping the goron defies physics, because he has an anchor, it simply shows great strength and durability.

Sorry man but I'm starting to sense denial in your arguments.

 

[UncleSam]

Yet again, he doesn't have to directly put his sword directly in front of his face:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBNOmcOmD1w
If Ganon's strength allows him to hold his sword with one hand and seeing how he is skillful with his weapon he could possibly do what happens in the video.

I saw that episode, katanas can cut through bullets

 

[ShinTwist-ScreamPaste]

Sorry man but I'm starting to sense denial in your arguments.

And I'm starting to realise a lot of yours won't make realistic sense. You've already linked a video to a fictional fight between ficitonal characters in a turn based game as part of an argument.

If we go by your 'Ganon blocks his face', argument, his arm pits are exposed. That's how plate armour's set up.

 

[Emperor Time]

So, like, uh.

What's so hard about pulling your sword back and thrusting it?

EDIT:Don't include my single post into it. Ofc one doesn't take in the full scope of the game and say that's the MU. We apply nerfs and whatnot. It wasm erely a creative example of how one with the stature/power of Ganon could overpower Link. Nothing else.

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Football field = 100 yards.
1 mile = 1,617y (yards).
23mph*1,617y = 37,191 yph (yards per hour).
37,191 yph/3600s (one hour) = 10.33 yps (yards per second).
100y/10.33yps = 9.68s


Here it is.

Unless Ganon is a super athlete, like ZSS, he won't dodge the arrow.


ET:

That the darksword is like this:

Stabbing someone with it is out of the question.

 

[†Slader7†]

And I'm starting to realise a lot of yours won't make realistic sense. You've already linked a video to a fictional fight between ficitonal characters in a turn based game as part of an argument.

If we go by your 'Ganon blocks his face', argument, his arm pits are exposed. That's how plate armour works.

Did you even see the video I posted? Ganon doesn't have to block his face to stop an arrow.

 

[ShinTwist-ScreamPaste]

So your argument is Ganon stops every one of Link's arrows with no injury?

Won't happen, ever.

 

[REL38]

Except this would be a perfectly viable way to look at it in real life physics, so it doesn't break any rules.

Ignoring the characters actual abilities is a flawed way to argue, because it's not actually arguing the characters at all, it's arguing look a likes. Nothing about stopping the goron defies physics, because he has an anchor, it simply shows great strength and durability.

Maybe you should check out the "If chars. Were True to their Games" thread. Because everything you're saying would fit alot better in that thread.

@MRG

Human reaction time would give Ganon enough tome to dodge. An arrow goes pretty darn fast, but human reaction is faster.

 

[Sieguest]

Except this would be a perfectly viable way to look at it in real life physics, so it doesn't break any rules.

Ignoring the characters actual abilities is a flawed way to argue, because it's not actually arguing the characters at all, it's arguing look a likes. Nothing about stopping the goron defies physics, because he has an anchor, it simply shows great strength and durability.

Link doesn't have that anchor this time now does he...

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Maybe you should check out the "If chars. Were True to their Games" thread. Because everything you're saying would fit alot better in that thread.

@MRG

Human reaction time would give Ganon enough tome to dodge. An arrow goes pretty darn fast, but human reaction is faster.

Yes, but moving your body is another thing.

 

[Emperor Time]

Unless Ganon is a super athlete, like ZSS, he won't dodge the arrow.


ET:

That the darksword is like this:

Stabbing someone with it is out of the question.

You telling me that if Ganon shoved that thing in Link's belly, it wouldn't do anything?

Hell, no.

 

[ShinTwist-ScreamPaste]

Maybe you should check out the "If chars. Were True to their Games" thread. Because everything you're saying would fit alot better in that thread.

@MRG

Human reaction time would give Ganon enough tome to dodge. An arrow goes pretty darn fast, but human reaction is faster.

Nah, that thread's full of no-limit fallacies, gameplay mechanics, and bias. They use HP bars..

Keeping a character true to their canon isn't a gamplay mechanic, it's simply true ot the character. Link in TP overpowers Ganondorf, why then, are you all assuming Ganondorf has a massive strength advantage?

Link doesn't have that anchor this time now does he...

Ganon's not several tons of rolling stone in motion, now is he?

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

No it wouldn't. It cannot pierce, it can only slash. Chainmail will protect link.

Again, Arrow=GG.

 

[Sieguest]

Ganon's not several tons of rolling stone in motion, now is he?

But he's a couple hundred pounds! plus rush acceleration
Still a force

 

[†Slader7†]

No it wouldn't. It cannot pierce, it can only slash. Chainmail will protect link.

lol, the chain mail only prevents cuts and amputations, however, the motion in which Ganon's blade is going is still transferred into Link's body, causing internal bleeding and the loss of his kidneys (lol)
involuntary bowel movements are also expected

 

[Memorable_Random_Guy]

Hehe, if he COULD hit Link.


By then, he is beheaded.


Point is, only fast sword motion Ganon has (trust) is rendered useless. Instead, he will have to go with slow slashes.

With a lot of lag.


But it Wo't come down to that because Link has arrows, and sword is not long enough to cover head and legs at the same time.

Ganonj loses.

GG.

 

[ShinTwist-ScreamPaste]

But he's a couple hundred pounds! plus rush acceleration
Still a force

So is Link, Link doesn't have to approach either, he's got a bow, and in close combat, he has a shield. He's obviously got the upper hand physicly, the onyl physical advantage Ganon has in your scenario is his mass. Link doesn't have to stand there and try to halt Ganon.

 

[Emperor Time]

Weight of blade+force exerted on armorless area=no damage?

Not feeling it.

EDIT:Link's shield wouldn't last long vs Ganon's power IMO. We also have too take into account that Link can still be damaged/stunned while shielding.

 

[Uffe]

I'd think this one is clearly a no-brainer. Let's see now. If Link has his Master Sword, assuming that's what he is using and a shield, then he's a bit safe from Ganondorf's blade. If Link only has regular arrows, no Light/Silver included, then that's not going to do much and Ganondorf won't really have to worry much about dodging them. Is Ganondorf mortal or immortal in this?

 

[Sieguest]

So is Link, Link doesn't have to approach either, he's got a bow, and in close combat, he has a shield. He's obviously got the upper hand physicly, the onyl physical advantage Ganon has in your scenario is his mass. Link doesn't have to stand there and try to halt Ganon.

*points to previous methods of ganon blocking*=>body tackle=>manhandle


EDIT:*sigh* nevermind....imah go lurk before I go to bed
good night world!

 

[†Slader7†]

Hehe, if he COULD hit Link.


By then, he is beheaded.


Point is, only fast sword motion Ganon has (trust) is rendered useless. Instead, he will have to go with slow slashes.

With a lot of lag.

lol your posts always amuses me
First of all, Ganondorf has a massive body build so basically compared to his body size, his sword fits him well
Sword ratios- Person to Sword Length
Link 3: Sword 2
Ganon 6: Sword 4
So with that, Ganon is able to handle his dark sword with ease

 

[ShinTwist-ScreamPaste]

*points to previous methods of ganon blocking*=>body tackle=>manhandle

If he covers his fac,e his arm pits are open, and Link shoots there instead, and Ganon's blocking. Ganon can't rush, because Link can keep firing, Medieval archers could fire an arrow once every six seconds, and Ganon will be blind if he covers his face. If he rushes, he's left open, and if he gets in close, Link has a sword and shield, and is stronger, and less restricted in his movements. Link's sword has a point, and can get at Ganon's unarmoured sections, and once Ganon's lost momentum, and has engaged in close combat, Link's superior strength comes into play.

 

[REL38]

@new guy

So that means that Sonic shoulda just gone Super Saiyan and wiped out the opposition because it's completely canon and thusly realistic?

Or how about the fact that Olimars Pikmin were able to pierce steel in their games, but not able to pierce reptile scales against Bowser?

And how about Pikachu being able to use Thunder, a devastating attack, to win MU's.

None of that would transition into RL.

Just because it was possible in game doesn't mean it's possible IRL.


We're taking this stuff if it were real. That means throwing certain things put the window, like god-like strength. It doesn't make sense.

 

[day-day]

If he covers his fac,e his arm pits are open, and Link shoots there instead, and Ganon's blocking. Ganon can't rush, because Link can keep firing, Medieval archers could fire an arrow once every six seconds, and Ganon will be blind if he covers his face. If he rushes, he's left open, and if he gets in close, Link has a sword and shield, and is stronger, and less restricted in his movements. Link's sword has a point, and can get at Ganon's unarmoured sections, and once Ganon's lost momentum, and has engaged in close combat, Link's superior strength comes into play.

So if Link shoots an arrow at his head and ganon blocks it then Link fires another at his pit. So ganondorf won't have the ability to move his sword just a few inches to cover his pit? Ganon wouldn't need to rush as would he not be able to dodge and block arrows until Link ran out? He will eventually. Medieval archers would have to train for years just to get that speed and it doesn't take more than 6 seconds just to move a sword to another part of your body. So once Links out of arrows he'll have no choice but to approach and just because Link stopped a gordon or whatever it's called makes him automatically stronger? I'll give him the less restricted part. Just because Link's sword has a point doesn't mean Ganon can't dodge it. I still think the whole Link's stronger thing is bull of course he'd win in a swordlock though since he's the hero. Link's shield isn't going to just absorb all the impact from Ganon's shield either, a hit from that thing will send him flying if not stunned for a moment of which Ganon can do whatever he wants. Just because Ganon's huge does not mean he's slow as heck and have the reaction time of a sloth either.
Just Ed's two cents..

 

[ShinTwist-ScreamPaste]

@new guy

So that means that Sonic shoulda just gone Super Saiyan and wiped out the opposition because it's completely canon and thusly realistic?

Or how about the fact that Olimars Pikmin were able to pierce steel in their games, but not able to pierce reptile scales against Bowser?

And how about Pikachu being able to use Thunder, a devastating attack, to win MU's.

None of that would transition into RL.

Just because it was possible in game doesn't mean it's possible IRL.

Half of that falls into the magic category, and isn't allowe,d IE, Pikachu's thunder, and half isn't explainable by physics. Super strength =/= calling down lightning, and meshes with real world physics just fine.

 

[JOE!]

WOOT! ED HAS RETURNED! *gives him a jawbraker*




@Screampaste:

The problem with your arguments is this:

It's not that we do not take the characters, and explain how they can pull of the feats they do in their games, it is that we take them, and bring them into the REAL WORLD, and estimate what they could ACTUALLY do in real life.

Take Lucario for example. In his games, he had the aura and stats that allowed him to be a great pokemon.

In real life, stats dont really matter, and the aura cannot really exist. So lucario is then left with traits he should have based on how he looks/behaves. Like how he is swift, a good fighter, and how his spikes can be used as weapons.

Based on what you said, granted Link is a strong dude, someone of equal build could go into the street, provided they tied cinderblocks to their feet, and stop a car by pushing, seeing as theyre anchored.

While I appreciate your enthusiasm, the characters dont work that way in a real setting. The games have the heroes do these feats because:

A) theyre cewl

B) it make sthe story progress

C) the game must be BEATABLE


Would it be any fun if in Mario games bowser just roased you then ate you?


@ the discussion


What if Link shot Ganon's legs? I can see him being able to cripple ganon from range

 

[ShinTwist-ScreamPaste]

Fine, if the OP says Super strength is out, it's out, but I maintain my official stance that there's no reason you can't apply physics to super human strength.

That aside Link's winning based on his bow and shield, imho. Ganon cannot block all of those arrows, it's impossible, and Link's simply an incredibly good shot.

 

[JOE!]

Im not saying we cannot have super strength in our fights, i mean, look at donkey kong!

It is just that in REAL LIFE, how would you justify Link having such power?

 

[ShinTwist-ScreamPaste]

It's never actually justified in the games, though it is quite consistant, I didn't think the justification mattered all that much as long as none of it defied physics. There's no reason a being shaped as a man could not be as strong and durable as he is, and he's not technicly human. In physics, anyway, in biology, there are issues, but it is technicly possible.

And if we apply real life physics to his strength, it actually works out fairly neatly. I'm something of an uber-nerd and do this sort of thing for fun.

Thing is, by showings of power, Link in his main canon, the games, is actually stronger than Donkey Kong, for example. If you'd like, I can bring in numbers and calculations, supremely down rounded, of course, to guess the respective character's strengths in this thread? I'd only need screenshots or videos of the shows of strength, and could work from there.

I agree no normal human could stop a car if they were anchored, that wouldn't work, we're not strong enough, and our bones/muscles cannot handle the stresses. Fictional characters brought into a real world, would not defy physics, simply do extraordinary things within the limits of those physics.

 

[justaway12]

Maybe you should, I'm not disagreeing (sp?) right now since I haven't seen it, but maybe it would add to the discussion, which is always a good thing ^_^

 

[JOE!]

but how could even a superhuman's muscles work given the body structure?

link's muscles are way too small for this kind of strength

 

[ShinTwist-ScreamPaste]

but how could even a superhuman's muscles work given the body structure?

link's muscles are way too small for this kind of strength

Not necessarily. They could just be extremely dense, like carbon fibers, and as a result, capapble of surviving such extreme tensions. It doesn't defy physics at all, it messes with biology quite a bit, but he's not human.

If we accept that his muscle and bone structure is simply composed of something with muc hmore tensile strength than our muscles and bones have, it's easy to see how it could work. Link's not scrawny, is his muscles were composed of say, steel wire, they'd be easily able to support massive weights based on thickness alone.

 

[JOE!]

but how would he function as a living being?

all his energy would divert to his strength, and make him dumber...

We gave up our ape strength for Brains....and lost the muscles and build for such feats