TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[Sgt. Baker]

Ahhh it was Rajput Warrior from India, I was off haha

And yes I remember the sword-whip wasn't that much effective but also they were testing the whip on armor clad test subjects. How would a secret agent with a business suit fare?

 

[JOE!]

that sword whip also isnt quite like Ivy's, her's would have a seratted effect, no?

 

[UncleSam]

I wasn't referring to those either. They are manly but not the manliest.

Gurren Lagann is the manliest thing ever!

False.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2LzBrnREB4

you already showed me this.

 

[ElPanandero]

Since time is not a factor here (all match-ups are in or near the present, no?) so i think this adds another dimension to Ivy`s sword whip. With today`s technology I`m sure there is a plausible way to take a segmented swordwhip and compact them into a shortsword. the reason it hasn`t been done i basically because it`s not needed in today`s world. Also, could we use Ivy`s alt costume`s or something? I feel like losing due to having limited mobility because of her costume an unnessecary handicap, seeing as she might already lose this as is.

 

[Nova9000]

you already showed me this.

I know. But it's still manly.

 

[JOE!]

Pandero:


You *may* have a point as Soul Calibur doesnt really have a set "time" where it's events took place....does it?

 

[payasofobia]

Oh, it most definetly does. Proof of that is the ending of Soul Blade that shows the Soul Edge being discovered by a modern day scuba diver.

The games take place in the rennaisance days. That said, that doesn't strip away Ivy's chances of having a functional whip.

Let's take Link who has access to equipment like honest-to-god modern day grappling hooks. He obviously comes from a medieval fantasy setting. Doesn't mean the thing can't work.

 

[payasofobia]

Also, only one of these is manly. Choose wisely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u84cH_bmTA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTYtH28esTg

 

[REL38]

Also, only one of these is manly. Choose wisely.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2u84cH_bmTA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTYtH28esTg

The first

Without any question


Anyways, Ivy got this

A serated blade whip ain't too shaby of a weapon
Very usable and effective

Viper ain't got no weapon
Electro-gloves are close range; whip eliminates it's usefulness
She's as good as dead

 

[Nova9000]

the first

without any question


anyways, ivy got this

a serated blade whip ain't too shaby of a weapon
very usable and effective

viper ain't got no weapon
electro-gloves are close range; whip eliminates it's usefulness
she's as good as dead

QFT.

10qft.

 

[ElPanandero]

Oh, it most definetly does. Proof of that is the ending of Soul Blade that shows the Soul Edge being discovered by a modern day scuba diver.

The games take place in the rennaisance days. That said, that doesn't strip away Ivy's chances of having a functional whip.

Let's take Link who has access to equipment like honest-to-god modern day grappling hooks. He obviously comes from a medieval fantasy setting. Doesn't mean the thing can't work.

Plus at Zaslamel's(sp) ending has him in the furture on an island with what looks like a modern city and he's riding a helicopter, but it says something about a long time passing (I have the number 400 years in my head for some reasons, may not actually be anywhere in the game),

so yeah there is a set time, but Ivy could use a modernized realistic version of her blade with actual functionality.

 

[Nova9000]

Unless her blade can't cut, I don't see why she doesn't win this. Blades>>>>>>fists, and Viper can't come anywhere close without threatening her own safety.

 

[Big-Cat]

Viper ain't got no weapon
Electro-gloves are close range; whip eliminates it's usefulness
She's as good as dead

You're forgetting her Seismic Punch.

 

[Nova9000]

You're forgetting her Seismic Punch.

Elaborate plz...

 

[JOE!]

Dont you rmember? Thats how ganon wins his MUs

 

[Sieguest]

Elaborate plz...

It's just like how Ganondorf can cause earthquakes by punching the ground.

Completely legit obv.

ninja'd by JOE! ffffffffuuuuuuuuuuu--

 

[Big-Cat]

Elaborate plz...

Well, aside from the proper term being Seismic Hammer, this attack acts something like a projectile. Viper punches the ground and creates a concentrated shockwave that raises the opponent. Her LP, MP, and HP versions all hit at certain points away from her, but the EX version will anyone within a certain range.

Therefore, as long as Viper keeps herself away from Ivy, she can hit her safely.

Two other things that Viper has are her Burning Kick and High Jump. She can use these two together to jump in and attack or just to escape. This is one action mom you don't want to mess with.

 

[IsmaR]

Get at him, boys.

 

[JOE!]

first off: how can she send a shockwave throygh the ground?

answer me that 1st

 

[Sieguest]

Well, aside from the proper term being Seismic Hammer, this attack acts something like a projectile. Viper punches the ground and creates a concentrated shockwave that raises the opponent. Her LP, MP, and HP versions all hit at certain points away from her, but the EX version will anyone within a certain range.

Therefore, as long as Viper keeps herself away from Ivy, she can hit her safely.

Two other things that Viper has are her Burning Kick and High Jump. She can use these two together to jump in and attack or just to escape. This is one action mom you don't want to mess with.

This is a contest of real world fights between members of the cast of super smash brothers, as well as other games! This means no magic, no game physics, no ph1r3, and realistic as possible.

We're putting the fights into a real world situation. The lightning punches and fire kicks are allowed due to them being something that could exist in future technology. However a punch that sends a shockwave from the ground is beyond human reason. Her gloves aren't shockwave generators after all.

 

[Big-Cat]

Ok then. I'm not really sure as to how she could do seismic punches, but I'm no expert on seismic activity like earthquakes. There's still her high jump. She can pretty much fly around with that, and if necessary, she can shoot fire as a getaway tactic.

I still don't exactly get these rules.

I think who wins this depends on whether either person gets in her preferred range. Ivy's going to want long range as her sword-whip is its most efficient there. Viper needs close range, if she can just touch you, you're dead.

 

[Sieguest]

Ok then. I'm not really sure as to how she could do seismic punches, but I'm no expert on seismic activity like earthquakes. There's still her high jump. She can pretty much fly around with that, and if necessary, she can shoot fire as a getaway tactic.

She'd have to hit the ground EXTREMELY hard to do much of anything. As to the rest, seems reasonable enough to me (I don't nitpick too much anymore. lul)

I still don't exactly get these rules.

Consider Link vs. Marth. In putting them in a real life situation. Link's boomerang won't have a tornado with it and the Master Sword won't fire shock waves. He doesn't have any of those fairies or magic potions like there are in the games. He just has a regular old sword, shield, boomerang, bombs etc. Marth won't have a whole rag-tag army with him and his Falchion won't be some uber holy sword. He'll just have his blade and whatever he's wearing.

We basically take the characters out of their games and stick them in a fight following real world physics. No magic or anything out of possible reason. Some items such as CVs gloves and boots are allowed because they could exist in futuristic technology, but that's the only type of leeway given.

Hope that explains it a bit better

I think who wins this depends on whether either person gets in her preferred range. Ivy's going to want long range as her sword-whip is its most efficient there. Viper needs close range, if she can just touch you, you're dead.

Basically yes.

 

[MarthTrinity]

So forgive me if this isn't entirely likely or anything but, you have to consider how fast Ivy can swing that thing safely (as in, how fast she can pull it back without it lodging in her own brain).

Judging from how far apart the bladed bits of the whip are, it seems -POSSIBLE- that Viper could actually grab it and either yank it from Ivy or give it a jolt of electricity. I mean yeah, that's a pretty big risk and all but Cloud can disarm Crono and people in real life can do crazy stuff like catch arrows if they're trained properly. I assume Viper's spy training would at least give her not only heightened combat abilities but she'd probably also need pretty good reaction speed if push came to shove.

Plus Ivy's got those weird heels on; if Viper gives her a good tug, it's possible that, with Ivy's poor footwear choice and with the surprise of having her weapon tugged on quite hard that she'd lose her balance. Granted Ivy could also pull it back and tear at Viper's hands but she's still vulnerable when she's not swinging. Viper's a spy; she's fast and deadly; if she can get in, Ivy's as good as dead.

And I personally (please say so if you feel differently) don't feel that catching the weapon would be entirely out of the realm of possibility; look at a picture of Ivy with the whip sword out (I'd post one but be banned for pornography probably, thanks Namco), there are huge gaps between the blades that are what I assume to be either metal or rope which could easily be grabbed. Plus, as I actually look at the image, it would appear that the blades have a flat side where it would slot together if it were going to reform into a sword (as it does in the game, not in TDB). That would possibly mean a "safe" area for Viper even if Ivy tugged it back.

Just my two cents...

 

[IsmaR]

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Appeasement be ****ed. Unless I'm doing it wrong.

 

[MarthTrinity]

Hmmm.....that looks rather different in game (been a while since I've played SC, at least with Ivy). I was basing my entire post above moreso on this official artwork.

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If that were the case it looks like there's more than enough safe room to grab...her weapon, not her-...nevermind.

 

[ElPanandero]

Even if she could grab them, Ivy would simply need to retract the blade to short sword form, whioch would effectively sever Viper's hand.

 

[IsmaR]

I don't think a real-life version of a chain whip could switch functionality so quickly. What, for example, is stopping Ivy from hitting herself/being hit with the recoil once it is retracted? If it even retracts that quickly/at all. On top of this, I don't think she'd have the reaction time/time to realize what is going on by the time Viper would tug her down. The latter would only need a small window of opportunity to make her move. I am a bit ignorant in this MU/this particular weapon, but is only my observation.

 

[ElPanandero]

I don't think a real-life version of a chain whip could switch functionality so quickly. What, for example, is stopping Ivy from hitting herself/being hit with the recoil once it is retracted? If it even retracts that quickly/at all. On top of this, I don't think she'd have the reaction time/time to realize what is going on by the time Viper would tug her down. The latter would only need a small window of opportunity to make her move. I am a bit ignorant in this MU/this particular weapon, but is only my observation.

How come we're building up Viper's abilities, but we're crediting Ivy with having no reflexes or combative ability at all?

Ivy knows every inch of her blad very, very well, which leads me to believe she'd be aware of such a blatant weakness as the vulnerability of the space in between the segments. She would surely have the fighting ability (she isn't like Chrono, without any experience or technique) and the ability to counter someone attempting to off-balance her.

I'm gonna stand by my notion that she has the ability to retract the blade and sever Viper's hand before Viper can disarm/disbalance/etc. her.

 

[IsmaR]

I built up nothing and didn't doubt or belittle any of Ivy's abilities. Chances are a spy will have the upper hand against a woman from medieval times, no matter how trained and even with a weapons disadvantage to a lesser extent. As I said, I am only stating what I take from observations. And she can have all the training you say, it'll still be difficult to keep balance in that scenario(given her footwear/outfit(even going by alts), the likely lack of preparation for that scenario(doesn't seem likely anybody would risk trying that in any previous combat/in those times without having proper armor/protection), and generally the difficulty in going from swinging a weapon to suddenly being in a tug-o'-war with it).

But as I said before, I'll stay out of this since I haven't got the proper knowledge to argue for either side. Just trying to point out/support the notion that this isn't as one-sided as people would make it out to be and that asinine claims are asinine.
(only Ganon can Seismic Pawnch obv)

 

[ElPanandero]

The only thing i was pointing out is that a tug-of-war scenario is moot because of the speed the sword can retract. the moment her hand lands and begins pulling, she retracts the blade and severs Viper's hand, glove and all (and I imagine grushing a glove with the power to generate electricity will do a number to the wearer's hand). and her alt in Soul Calibur 4 has fine footwear (flat boots like Viper's IIRC)

 

[UncleSam]

The only thing i was pointing out is that a tug-of-war scenario is moot because of the speed the sword can retract. the moment her hand lands and begins pulling, she retracts the blade and severs Viper's hand, glove and all (and I imagine grushing a glove with the power to generate electricity will do a number to the wearer's hand). and her alt in Soul Calibur 4 has fine footwear (flat boots like Viper's IIRC)

look @ Ivy's pic a few posts ago, the sword sections are very far apart.

just sayin, you can put together the rest...
I hope
also the inner layer of Viper's gloves would be rubber to prevent her hand form getting shocked in the process

obv.

 

[ElPanandero]

why does it matter how far apart they are? They can still come together fairly quickly, definitely within the time it takes to grab something and pull someone off balance.

And when you sever the glove, the rubber could get damaged, If you slice through the glove whatever generates electricity could be damaged. I don't exactly know how to elaborate because I'm not entierly sure how her gloves are creating these shocks.

 

[UncleSam]

why does it matter how far apart they are? They can still come together fairly quickly, definitely within the time it takes to grab something and pull someone off balance.

And when you sever the glove, the rubber could get damaged, If you slice through the glove whatever generates electricity could be damaged. I don't exactly know how to elaborate because I'm not entierly sure how her gloves are creating these shocks.

oh so you didn't get it, it's what I feared.
IDK I thought it was obvious.
each section is relatively wide at the base so if you grab in-between sections it won't cut Viper, also if it does contract it's not going to cut her hand off there is just going to be a dull section pushing against her glove.
Now Viper wouldn't be able to shock her unless the rope part of the whip conducts electricity.

 

[ElPanandero]

So wait, when Ivy's blade comes together, the edges are not sharp?

Even if the base of each segment is not sharp, as the come together to form a semi-solid base, the edges will form sharp corners where they meet the next peice, these will stab at the very least, cutting potentially.

 

[Sieguest]

So wait, when Ivy's blade comes together, the edges are not sharp?

Even if the base of each segment is not sharp, as the come together to form a semi-solid base, the edges will form sharp corners where they meet the next peice, these will stab at the very least, cutting potentially.

If viper's hands were that wide. But they're not from my point of view. x.x

 

[ElPanandero]

Perhaps I was overestimating the width of the blade, but what about crushing damage? If something is designed to retract, and something gets in the way, it's gonna try pretty **** hard to try and retract anyway, which could crush Viper's hand and once again, the glove (though I'm still confused on why crushing her glove would not cause a malfunction/additional harm)

 

[Beren Zaiga]

...You guys do know there is a IRL equivalent to Ivy's Sword Whip right? Granted it is a very old weapon, but it can be used effectively by someone who is skilled with a whip and a sword.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urumi

I don't care if you say you have discussed it already, but I was just dropping by to say hi too.

 

[Sieguest]

Perhaps I was overestimating the width of the blade, but what about crushing damage? If something is designed to retract, and something gets in the way, it's gonna try pretty **** hard to try and retract anyway, which could crush Viper's hand and once again, the glove (though I'm still confused on why crushing her glove would not cause a malfunction/additional harm)

It has to produce enough force first. I haven't seen anything showing that the rate at which the parts retract is enough to crush her hand. If the initial collision isn't enough, then unless the mechanics of the sword itself produce enough "weight" that is more than what Viper's fist can take, that won't do anything either.

And is there anything showing that it can retract in the first place?

 

[ElPanandero]

We are assuming it can because of the fact that such a sword is theoretically possible, possibly even by today's technological standards. Meh, I'll give up the point, if you guys think Viper can win, give her the point, I can't prove my theory so I admit defeat.

 

[Sieguest]

We are assuming it can because of the fact that such a sword is theoretically possible, possibly even by today's technological standards. Meh, I'll give up the point, if you guys think Viper can win, give her the point, I can't prove my theory so I admit defeat.

Okay. I see.

As to deciding the victor, while the grabbing between the parts is no longer an issue, there is the issue of how many times out of 1000 can Viper do this especially considering how difficult this would be, and assuming Ivy just doesn't yank her off balance if Viper tries catching it while it is moving.

I'm still on the fence as to who would win.