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TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

Skadorski

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It's pretty much tied.
Ivy fails at melee range ( I found out a way why Ivy's weapon wouldn't retract but it's pretty much common sense so I won't post it), and Viper has no approach. The only reason I think Viper gets it 50% of the time is because she may be able to dodge the weapon since she's pretty much an agent of the CIA.
Either tied or Ivy wins. Depends if JOE! will allow leeway with Viper's training.
Let it stay for a few more days, maybe someone can come up with some more info.
 

Nova9000

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It's pretty much tied.
Ivy fails at melee range ( I found out a way why Ivy's weapon wouldn't retract but it's pretty much common sense so I won't post it), and Viper has no approach. The only reason I think Viper gets it 50% of the time is because she may be able to dodge the weapon since she's pretty much an agent of the CIA.
Either tied or Ivy wins. Depends if JOE! will allow leeway with Viper's training.
Let it stay for a few more days, maybe someone can come up with some more info.
This MU has been up for too long. We need to move on before friday. Otherwise, this MU would have lasted for almost two weeks.
 

REL38

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Laughing while sayin' "idunno" with heav
A tie?

Really?


Ivy has more going for her than Viper
A serated whip that can be used to space and secure an eventual kill is better than a spy that has to worry about penetrating Ivy's spacing and risk being slashed by said whip.
Heck, I'm highly doubtful that spy training would include dodging a whip
 

JOE!

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and advanced martial arts/military training doesnt teach adaptation to it's trainees?


CIA agents train with the SEALS and such....
 

REL38

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and advanced martial arts/military training doesnt teach adaptation to it's trainees?


CIA agents train with the SEALS and such....
And it isn't like Ivy is some random scrub who uses a serated whip

Then again, I'm using assumptions for both of these characters since I have next to no clue about either of their backgrounds

From what I can tell, Ivy has plenty of experience dealing with weapon wielding foes wherelse Viper has shown next to none

If Ivy was shown to have little skill with the whip, then I'd be inclined to believe Viper can move in to seal a deal, but that isn't the case

From what you're suggesting, I'd suppose Viper could close in on varies other limited range weapon fighters as well such as Ike
Despite the clear range advantage

The point being, Viper has much more at risk than Ivy


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kkWt3ktlBA&feature=related

Given, Ivy's whip would be different than the vids due to weight and such, but I sure don't wanna get hit by that
:/
 

Nova9000

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I have to agree with REL. I don't see how Viper has any type of advantage when she has to take advantage of an opening. I could see this being close, but not a tie. This is Ivy's win. What exactly can Viper do against a weapon like that?
 

Skadorski

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And it isn't like Ivy is some random scrub who uses a serated whip

Then again, I'm using assumptions for both of these characters since I have next to no clue about either of their backgrounds
Backrounds:
Wikipedia on Ivy said:
As introduced in Soulcalibur, Ivy was raised by the Valentines, a noble family in London, England. Ivy's father became obsessed with the cursed sword Soul Edge, and worked himself to death. Her mother died shortly afterward, and revealed to Ivy that she was not their biological daughter. Becoming an alchemist, Ivy learned of her father's obsession and decided to destroy Soul Edge. She created an animated, segmented sword, bringing it to life by unknowingly summoning Soul Edge's current host, Nightmare, and was convinced to become one of his servants. After learning the truth, and that her real father was the sword's previous host Cervantes, with her intended to be its next, she departed. Continuing her quest to destroy the sword in later games, Ivy was attacked by Cervantes and her soul consumed in Soulcalibur IV. Using an artificial soul to keep herself alive, her body began to crystallize once depleted. However, her sword sacrifices itself to save her, and deciding to live, she heads towards an uncertain future.
Not much battle experience really...
This doesn't mean she's a scrub, but she really relies on her animated sword. The sword wouldn't retract IRL(or all of the pieces would slide to the bottom of the whip).
Street Fighter Wiki said:
Though employed by S.I.N., she is actually a mole for an American intelligence agency (most likely the CIA) investigating the BLECE project
The CIA gives intense training...
She has LOTS of battle experience.
HOLOpaW said:
http://www.wikihow.com/Become-a-CIA-Agent said:
14:participate in job training.
For some positions, particularly those in the clandestine service, you may have a probationary training period during which you must successfully complete training for your specific position. You may have to relocate during your training period (about six months), and the Agency will usually not pay for relocation of your family during this time. You will not be an official case officer until you pass the rigorous training, which, depending on the position, can be very difficult.
Rigorous training.
I'd imagine this would mean combat training.

From what I can tell, Ivy has plenty of experience dealing with weapon wielding foes wherelse Viper has shown next to none

If Ivy was shown to have little skill with the whip, then I'd be inclined to believe Viper can move in to seal a deal, but that isn't the case
Ivy has weapon exp but not much...

From what you're suggesting, I'd suppose Viper could close in on varies other limited range weapon fighters as well such as Ike
Despite the clear range advantage
First, if it was Ike vs. Viper she would lose. Ike's sword is all sword. Ivy's weapon is half metal half wire...
Next, 8 feet isn't long... Ivy would only be able to get a few pieces of the sword in Viper...
Ivy has a disadvantage in melee range.
Viper has a disadvantage in long/middle range (and Ivy doesn't have long range).

The point being, Viper has much more at risk than Ivy
I disagree and agree...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kkWt3ktlBA&feature=related

Given, Ivy's whip would be different than the vids due to weight and such, but I sure don't wanna get hit by that
:/
I always loved watching those crack. I saw a professional do it at Gatorland. ^_^
Let's look at the physics of whipcracking.
Wikipedia; Whipcracking said:
The whip's crack is produced when a section of the whip moves faster than the speed of sound and creates a sonic boom. The creation of the sonic boom was confirmed by high-speed shadow photography in 1927.

The high speed of the tip is explained by the law of the conservation of momentum. The initial motion is applied to the handle, and the initial wave along the whip's thong has a much larger mass than the end wave at the whip's tip or popper (a thin flexible piece of material tied at the end of the whip). Since the momentum is the product of the mass and speed of the moving object, the smaller the mass, the higher the speed, hence the light popper moves extremely fast.
Look at the bolded parts.
Ivy's weapon wouldn't be able to crack like that. The tip of the "whip" is, I'd imagine, pretty heavy.
Also, that guy is flipping his whip at nothing; it'll be slower if he was hitting something.

I'm pretty sure this would be tied. Ivy's weapon is very deadly, but due to length and damage issues, Viper should be able to get close enough to Ivy to taze her with her gloves, then it's all over.

That would hurt if the parts hit you, but it wouldn't go far into your body.
If they were like SPIKES on either side of the parts, then this would be different.

:038:
 

JOE!

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blargh



well, im gonna be gone for the weekend, so i guess this will have to fester till sunday nite/monday >_>
 

JOE!

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well, im ready to move on but I have one dillemma:

Aside from school/vacation/GF johns...


I need a Sonic the Hedgehog boss, any thoughts?

(also cant be Robotnik himself)
 

UncleSam

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guys I'm back, where's my MU?
EDIT: guys, Ivy's sword will act NOTHING like a whip and here's why.
a whip is a solid piece of leather, Ivy's sword switches between wire and a block of metal, there'd be no way to do stuff like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od7JBEIQj7M&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3MtYhhZ7ls&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKOu5OwU3_U

kay maybe the last one, but you aren't going to get the same solid movements as you would a whip it'd be clunky and slow. If vipers boots are metal all she'd have to do is stop it with her boot and it'd be over for Ivy.
If you don't understand how it wouldn't be solid think of it this way, the blades can't bend the same way a wire can, so when you swing it only the little wired sections would swing ruining the flow of the entire sword.

EDIT: I know you guys might think this is BS or something (IDK what you ppl think these days)
but really have you ever tried whipping around a chain?
same thing, it's clunky, sure it hurts but that's because it's a chain and you were stupid enough to hit yourself with it. If you block it correctly it becomes a waste of space.
 

ElPanandero

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guys I'm back, where's my MU?
EDIT: guys, Ivy's sword will act NOTHING like a whip and here's why.
a whip is a solid piece of leather, Ivy's sword switches between wire and a block of metal, there'd be no way to do stuff like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od7JBEIQj7M&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3MtYhhZ7ls&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKOu5OwU3_U

kay maybe the last one, but you aren't going to get the same solid movements as you would a whip it'd be clunky and slow. If vipers boots are metal all she'd have to do is stop it with her boot and it'd be over for Ivy.
If you don't understand how it wouldn't be solid think of it this way, the blades can't bend the same way a wire can, so when you swing it only the little wired sections would swing ruining the flow of the entire sword.

EDIT: I know you guys might think this is BS or something (IDK what you ppl think these days)
but really have you ever tried whipping around a chain?
same thing, it's clunky, sure it hurts but that's because it's a chain and you were stupid enough to hit yourself with it. If you block it correctly it becomes a waste of space.
You may have a point with the the Sword not being as flexible as a leather whip (or whatever they're made of), but on the chain point, I'm not sure, but I think if someone put enough time and effort into learning how to, they could effectivelly use a chain as a weapon.

People like us probably couldn't do it (I lack the ability to use a regular whip so...), but Ivy knows how to use her weapon and she'd be aware if it was slow. She porbably won't be doing the crazy fast paced combat that she does in the games, but with the right manipulation, I still believe it could act as a decent weapon...probably a defensive one...

Though I will submit the win to Ivy, her blade is still to ineffective to win a majority of he time.
 

UncleSam

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HOLOpaW we discussed this on the xat.
her boot.
her boot is made of metal all she has to do is kick the chain as Ivy swings it towards her and it effectively negates the attack.

my earlier post][color=silver] If vipers boots are metal all she'd have to do is stop it with her boot and it'd be over for Ivy.[/color][/quote] [COLOR="silver said:
your coming back strong but you still aren't reading posts.[/COLOR]
Though I will submit the win to Ivy, her blade is still to ineffective to win a majority of he time.
wait wut... I think you're contradicting yourself.
 

Skadorski

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HOLOpaW we discussed this on the xat.
her boot.
her boot is made of metal all she has to do is kick the chain as Ivy swings it towards her and it effectively negates the attack.


your coming back strong but you still aren't reading posts.
I wouldn't think her boot would be metal if the jet boots wouldn't work but w/e.

:038:
 

UncleSam

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after that...
you were talking about the flying concept at that point, you said steel...
I was talking about them but I wasn't talking about using them...

EDIT: *is waiting for JOE to start asking stupid questions*
 

ElPanandero

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HOLOpaW we discussed this on the xat.
her boot.
her boot is made of metal all she has to do is kick the chain as Ivy swings it towards her and it effectively negates the attack.


your coming back strong but you still aren't reading posts.

wait wut... I think you're contradicting yourself.
Ha, just kidding, that should be Viper, not Ivy. My B.
 

Nova9000

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IIRC, Ray's hydro pump cuts through metal correct? And looking at Met. Soncic gone ugly, he has a bunch of limbs that can be split rather easily. Also, Ray has speed on his side, so I see Ray winning this.
 

IsmaR

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Overlord/Madness shoots 'spine/claw' missiles, blasts of what look like ice(or glass or w.e breaks like that on impact) from his chest, has a spiked tail/spines on his back, enough strength to sink your battleship, and evidently a flamethrower in his right pincer/arm thingy. I don't see how he would move at all since he'd need his "wing" appendages/tentacles to stay upright(or else just get tipped over = gg), and it isn't really touched on how strong his armor is(cue Sega doing the whole final boss = invincible to everything but Sonic), so idk how to really judge that. More than likely though, if RAY was designed to kill REX, it can most likely pierce heavy armor.

RAY's water jet cannon can cut somewhere between rock and dense armor(should work irl methinks), has the obvious(yet questionable, as it would seemingly be somewhat easy to knock over/keep balance, though I'm assuming we're going with the Brawl/original version that has a tail) mobility advantage, has even more weapons(pair of Gatling guns under the wings, homing missile pods on the back, and more missile pods on the knees for 'ground defense') and is more versatile(not that important considering the neutral battlefield clause, I think). RAY's armor is made out of a ceramic-titanium alloy, which'll tank light to medium projectile assaults, not so much the heavy stuff/physical damage, hence REX beating the original RAY prototype in MGS4 and the mass produced ones being easier to destroy. Overall, however, doubt that Metal Sonic's weapons would do as much damage as RAY will being giving him. If RAY severs Overlord's arms and keeps away from his tail (I highly doubt the lolicelazers will do much) then all he has is spines/biting. lol

tl;dr - Hydro Cannon > Flamethrower.
 

Sieguest

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One correction IsmaR. It isn't that the Final Boss in Sonic Heroes was invincible to everything but Sonic. It was invincible to everything but Team Blast. :cool:

But yeah. Metal Gear Ray says "LOL IMAH USE A POGEYMAN MOVE ON YOU 'CEPT I DON'T HAVE TO RECHARGE."
GG Metal Overlord and your crap mobility.
 

Skadorski

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EDIT: Metal Overlord is dead.
Only thing I can think of is if RAY's weapons knock him over...
Metal Gear Wiki said:
RAY's initial and most prominent armament was a "water jet cutter" housed in the jaw area. Powered by a massive pump, water would be sucked into an internal tank and then expelled as a narrow stream under extremely high pressure, approaching astronomical speeds. As RAY's primary weapon, its purpose was to sever and slice almost anything that stood in its way, even dense armor (i.e., Metal Gear REX's).
This will kill Metal Overlord.
Even if Metal Overlord freezes RAY he can still shoot water from his mouth.
 
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