TDB: SEASON 2! LEON (RE4) vs LARA CROFT

[ElPanandero]

I'm thinking it'd be training because that what skill boils down to, and Roy has still fought enough to be battle tested.

 

[JOE!]

2 things:

1) Holy crap, this is almost a year old, and coincedentally today is the beginning of season 2 of the deadliest warrior, be sure to check it out

2) Next week ill be actually able to jump back in once finals are over, but i have this to point out: Is it just me, or except for snake and ganon, do all the characters who were good in Smash, suck in RL, and vice versa?

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

vs. = Why? Because a an angry man with a hammer is going to beat a little kid with a yo-yo.

vs. = Why? Do I even need to explain?

vs. = Why? Look at the ness match up but swap the word yo-yo with stick.

vs. = Why? Because apparently Peach is a skilled bomb thrower.

vs. = Why? Because he has a sword and is a better bomb thrower than peach will ever be.

 

[HotWings]

OMG i promise i was sooo about to make a thread about this because the deadliest warrior marathon is on and i felt like making a deadliest brawler thread... looks like you beat me to it xD.

I cannot wait until tonght for season 2

Well ima finish reading all the matchs and so far... i have agreed to everything that has got the edge.. it all sounds legit to me.

Nice work

 

[UncleSam]

OMG i promise i was sooo about to make a thread about this because the deadliest warrior marathon is on and i felt like making a deadliest brawler thread... looks like you beat me to it xD.

I cannot wait until tonght for season 2

Well ima finish reading all the matchs and so far... i have agreed to everything that has got the edge.. it all sounds legit to me.

Nice work

oh they're starting season 2 now?
I gotta start watching that again.
EDIT: JOE ganondorf is underrated in this thread, he has so much potential

 

[HotWings]

Yep... there is a marathon on right now and then tonight is the first episode of season 2. You just cant miss it lol.

 

[payasofobia]

Want input on Roy vs Marth?

Main difference between Marth and Roy:

Marth is a lil bit stronger than Roy, but Roy is fairly more accurate than Marth. The rest of the stats are pretty much equal. They even had incredibly similar experiences in their campaigns, fighting a multitude of dragons, a mad king from the strongest army in the continent and the strongest shadow dragons in their universes.

Marth has a pretty **** ****ty SKILL stat. Even at his max level, it only gets to 14 on average. Meaning that any fast character (HINT: Roy) will easily dodge his unskilled attacks.

You could argue that this is balanced by Marth having a lighter sword than Roy, but the truth is that the difference is minimal with only a single point separating them. And then there is the fact that the sword of seals also has a sharper edge than the falchion, giving it a wooping 6 points more of attack than the falchion.


If I had to give a summary for the reasons why Roy wins, it would be because Roy deals equal or even perphaps more damage than Marth without sacrificing accuracy.



Scenario: Marth attacks like a ******** barbarian, Roy dodges/spars the blow and then he deals a critical hit to Marth's abdomen.



http://www.serenesforest.net/fe6/average/roy.html
http://www.serenesforest.net/fe11/average/marth.html

http://www.serenesforest.net/fe6/sword.htm
http://www.serenesforest.net/fe11/sword.html


And no, I did not compare their MAX stats, I compared their stats at unpromoted level 20.

 

[payasofobia]

Double post.

 

[JOE!]

Hmn, on the note of that, paya, would marth actually still beat charizard?

I mean, assuming we take in skill....Charizard has fought things like scythers...which are >>>>> marth

 

[HotWings]

Hmn, on the note of that, paya, would marth actually still beat charizard?

I mean, assuming we take in skill....Charizard has fought things like scythers...which are >>>>> marth

But then again, marth has exp. in fighting fire breathing dragons.

 

[JOE!]

yeah, but they suck compared to

 

[Nova9000]

@ JOE!:
Glad to see your alive lol...
But Zard is still only 5 ft tall and a ft of that is all neck. marth is taller than Zard. He could run circles around him. And you don't have to be that good to slash his neck or tail.
Oh and I can't say everyone is the same; Jiggs and Yoshi still suck lol.

@ Seph:
The EB kids have bombs.
Lucario beats Luigi....apparently....
And Weegee only has his vacuum unless we give him sonething else (Kuribo shoes )

@ Paya:
Thx for the advice; Roy beats Marth. So how does Marth fare against Pit? I wanna give it to Pit but his bow isn't that good.

 

[payasofobia]

Well, Charizard is still a pretty fail dragon. Considering it's physique, I wouldn't count on him being fast enough to dodge one of Marth's attacks.

I say Marth's accuracy problem dissapears because of this and his strenght has it's opportunity to shine. In short, neck cleave and it's over.

 

[Xiahou Dun]

But then again, marth has exp. in fighting fire breathing dragons.

No...

I object to comparing Marth and Roy by their ingame statistics as once you go down the road of ingame stats you leave absolutely no way whatsoever to compare characters NOT in the same game. I mean this says Marth has 33HP yet Charizards base HP is 78 and almost all of his stats are around 5 times that of Marth even Pikachu has more attack then Marth and that's WITHOUT a Light Ball. Stats are meaningless projections to fuel purely ingame mechanics and workings and nothing more and should not be considered as an actual part fo the characters once they leave the game and enter these hypothetical battles

I vote all stats be ignored. And still hold that neither Marth nor Roy holds significant advantage over one another.

 

[JOE!]

no, stats shouldnt be ignored alltogether, but sillyness base don stats should be:

for example, we can say Machamp moves mountains, lucario has a few less ATTK than him, can Lucario benchpress ocean liners?

No

but wht we infer is that Lucario has very impressive close-range/physical prowess for something it's size

 

[Nova9000]

So it sounds like Roy edges out Marth.
*waits for people to start discussing Pit*

 

[Xiahou Dun]

Marth has a significantly Higher Luck stat then Roy. Therefore he will win...

 

[Nova9000]

Are you seriously contradicting your own post here?

 

[dahighii]

Question: I can't tell who's being discussed here :/ Is it Charizard or Marth? Or Luigi like the title said?

 

[Nova9000]

well we finished Luigi. We gave Mario the throwing hammers and Luigi his vacuum and the hammer originally, but the hammer was proven to be too big for Luigi to use. And since no one found a adequate replacement weapon for him (Kuribo shoes), he just has a vacuum. So he's going to lose a lot of MUs now.

We're currently on Marth right now. Marth v. Roy and Marth v. Pit to be exact.
We had an earlier MU with Marth against Charizard, and Marth won because fire breath was proven to be unrealistic w/o suicide. However, I proved that fire breath can exist in reality, so JOE! brought back that MU for rediscussion.

So far it looks like Marth can beat Charizard still, but cannot beat Roy. And against Pit it's undecided yet; that's what we need to determine before we move on. And when JOE! updates the OP I'll update the chart.

 

[payasofobia]

Regarding Marth vs Pit:

If we are going with his Brawl appearance, then he can't shoot arrows because his bow has no strings to shoot with, making it useless.


If we are going with his canon appearance, he is a kid. A very small one at that. And while he has a short bow that would make it possible for someone as small as him to use, it would still be weaker than, say, an adult using a short bow.


Pit would have trouble pulling the string because of his diminished strength, and that would take away the core advantage short bows have: rate of fire.

So his arrows would be (relatively) slow, will have short range, low penetrating power and a slow rate of fire.

That is unreliable as hell.



But if we gave him the mirror shield, then maybe he would have a chance. If he knows how to parry and counter of course.

 

[UncleSam]

if you are going to go all the way to compare GAME MECHANICS in a thread that simulates REAL LIFE, then at least have the decency to compare the stats to their game,
does marth have good stats for his game?
does charizard?
these are the questions you should be asking.
IMO

Marth used stealth rock!
Charizard lost 50% of his health
Marth used quick attack!
charizard fainted...

sadly marth isn't that good.

 

[Xiahou Dun]

Are you seriously contradicting your own post here?

I was undermining with sarcasm.

 

[Nova9000]

Regarding Marth vs Pit:

If we are going with his Brawl appearance, then he can't shoot arrows because his bow has no strings to shoot with, making it useless.


If we are going with his canon appearance, he is a kid. A very small one at that. And while he has a short bow that would make it possible for someone as small as him to use, it would still be weaker than, say, an adult using a short bow.


Pit would have trouble pulling the string because of his diminished strength, and that would take away the core advantage short bows have: rate of fire.

So his arrows would be (relatively) slow, will have short range, low penetrating power and a slow rate of fire.

That is unreliable as hell.



But if we gave him the mirror shield, then maybe he would have a chance. If he knows how to parry and counter of course.

We made Pit a teenager with the bow from Kid Icarus. So he has a small bow and he can't use a quiver since it would interfere with his wings, unless he decided to put it on his side. The shield thing could work, but because of his wings he can't carry it at all unless he held it in his hands the entire time. And you can't shoot arrows and shield simultaneously. So I could see Marth rushing Pit down. However, if he get some shots off, they could be fatal to Marth.

if you are going to go all the way to compare GAME MECHANICS in a thread that simulates REAL LIFE, then at least have the decency to compare the stats to their game,
does marth have good stats for his game?
does charizard?
these are the questions you should be asking.
IMO

sadly marth isn't that good.

I agree; maybe Paya thought it was the other thread. But anyway, from what he posted, it looks like Roy takes Marth regardless. IDK why we need to rediscuss Zard when he had fire in tht MU and he lost.

I was undermining with sarcasm.

Just checking....

 

[UncleSam]

the big question here is JOE! was talking about marth, knew the marth discussion was going on, and knew that luigi was done.
...
yet he didn't update the OP

 

[Xiahou Dun]

We made Pit a teenager with the bow from Kid Icarus. So he has a small bow and he can't use a quiver since it would interfere with his wings, unless he decided to put it on his side. The shield thing could work, but because of his wings he can't carry it at all unless he held it in his hands the entire time. And you can't shoot arrows and shield simultaneously. So I could see Marth rushing Pit down. However, if he get some shots off, they could be fatal to Marth.

Shield would be impractical yes, but I see no reason why he should not have a quiver of arrows on his side.

 

[JOE!]

if you are going to go all the way to compare GAME MECHANICS in a thread that simulates REAL LIFE, then at least have the decency to compare the stats to their game,
does marth have good stats for his game?
does charizard?
these are the questions you should be asking.
IMO

sadly marth isn't that good.

this is what i meant by using stats: in relation to their own games:

Luigi has better def than mario in the M&L games, so we could assume he can take a hit better than mario can (granted its not that much when VS weapons...and Weegee cannot dish it in return...)

 

[dahighii]

As far as Pit goes, which of his powerups does he have? A glance at his Wiki page revealed that not only could he shoot flaming arrows (as opposed to the lasers in Brawl) but he also had a Sacred Bow which made his arrows fly further. He also had a Protective Crystal, which I feel could be retained in the form of the shield.

And speaking of his shield, who's saying he can't have it? While he may not be able to outright carry it, I see no reason why it couldn't be strapped to his forearm. This gives him full arrow capabilities, and he can easily whip it out when he needs to.

If these are taken into account, I feel like all Pit needs to do is keep flying at a distance and firing flaming arrows at Marth. Eventually his hairband or something will catch on fire and distract him, giving Pit the perfect opportunity to swoop in for the kill.

 

[IsmaR]

^Pit can't fly. Protective Crystal hardly is realistic, and his balance would be off due to his wings and holding a big shield/bow. Mirror Shield is pretty big to be strapped onto his arm. The flaming arrows could be plausible, but how would he set them on fire exactly? And sacred bow or not, his physique ultimately defines how far he can shoot arrows.

/inb4readOP

 

[payasofobia]

How strong do you people think Pit is? And how inbalanced does his wings make him?

Because if he is stronger than Marth and has the right amount of balance, then I can see him defeating Marth with just the shield and an arrow. No bow required.

He could break Marth's balance with the sum of his and the shield's weight and drop him to the ground and then use arrows as improvised spears to deal the finishing blow. After all, you should never understimate the defense a big shield provides:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU6ZtiElz_g

That is, if Marth can surivev an assault by Pit's arrows, which I doubt he can unless he camps.

 

[dahighii]

Wait, does Pit have wings or not? Nova said just a minute ago that he did; this is the reason he would need to carry his shield all the time.

Also: does he have his swords? If so, he's double-wielding, and, with enough skill, this would be a definite advantage against Marth's solitary sword. I figure they've got pretty good close-combat training in Palutena's army, and if they give you two swords then they're gonna be d*mn sure you can use 'em.

 

[IsmaR]

He has wings, but flying with them would be impossible outside of video games/fantasy. I was stating mostly stuff I've seen said on here and whatnot. The wings are more hindering in real life than helpful.

And from what I can tell, he doesn't get both the dual-bow that splits into swords and the bow that shoots arrows, one or the other(Brawl Pit doesn't even have a string to shoot arrows with, while regular/canon Pit does but is seemingly younger than Brawl's version), methinks.

 

[payasofobia]

I still say all he needs is the shield and arrow-spears to win this fight.

According to the Spartan fight in TDW, large shields like the ones the Spartans had or similar ones can produce an incredible force of 45 Gs, enough to make a grown and athletic man lose his footing, which IRL means death by finishing blow almost 100% of the time.

Also, another item of interest:

http://kidicarus.wikia.com/wiki/Mallet

Pit got access to a hammer. And not a ****-huuuge one like the one's the Mario Brothers use. It's actually quite small.

 

[dahighii]

Hmm. Well if Pit can't fly, doesn't have his two swords, and doesn't have his mirror shield, I think he really runs out of options in an actual fight with Marth. Really the only weapons he has are his bow and his arrows; as payaso pointed out earlier, the arrows could be used as daggers, but this is extremely situational and I don't think he'd have a chance to do so.

He's also at a disadvantage because of his young age; he hasn't finished growing yet, meaning he's probably still very short, and as Marth has already finished his growth spurt Pit would have a terribly difficult time outrunning him. This renders his arrows skills basically null; he could try camping from a tree, but I feel like Marth would just move out of range and wait for him to come down.

This said, does anyone know what class Marth was in his original Fire Emblem? If he was a cavalier, then I might change this slightly; Marth probably wouldn't be as trained in long distance running if he's constantly on a horse.

 

[dahighii]

I still say all he needs is the shield and arrow-spears to win this fight.

According to the Spartan fight in TDW, large shields like the ones the Spartans had or similar ones can produce an incredible force of 45 Gs, enough to make a grown and athletic man lose his footing, which IRL means death by finishing blow almost 100% of the time.

Also, another item of interest:

http://kidicarus.wikia.com/wiki/Mallet

Pit got access to a hammer. And not a ****-huuuge one like the one's the Mario Brothers use. It's actually quite small.

OOOO, very interesting. This gives him a definite boost. I'm assuming it's small enough that it could be hung from his waist, giving him few problems with agility. In the case that the two of them did engage in close combat, Pit simply has to nimbly avoid some sword slashes and then land a hammer to the head; if it doesn't kill Marth it'll definitely stun him and diminish his skill greatly. However, I feel like if he's going to be quick enough to do this he couldn't be stuck carrying around a shield. Without a sword, he doesn't have many options since a sword obviously out-ranges a hammer and the sword is going to space Pit further away. Quick feet and good reaction time here would be his friend.


EDIT: Sorry for the double post, I saw yours after I posted mine, didn't think about how both of mine would end up right next to each other

 

[payasofobia]

Don't sweat it.

Also, like I said in my above post, a shield has enough force behind it to leave a grown man helpless if the user knows how to hold his ground properly. Basicaly, someone trained in the ways of ancient Greece's way of fighting. See what I am getting at here?

Pit uses shield likie a spartan to defend himself from Marth's blows just like in the Spartan vs Samurai video at the very end. Pit with hammer and Shield and Marth with sword.

Even though the Katana was incredibly fast and had incredible cutting power, it was still not enough to pierce the Spatan's defenses and the spartan ended up pushing the Samurai out of balance and then took the stun produced by the clash of the katana and his shield to strike a swift blow that made the Samurai fall to the ground. And after that, the Spartan could easily finish the grounded opponent.



I see Pit doing exactly what the spartan did in the video. Not giving Marth a chance to deal a solid blow, then use the shield to push Marth into the ground and then take this chance to use his slow hammer to strike him dead.


This would imply him not getting his bow and arrows, and him carrying the hammer and shield like this:

 

[JOE!]

anyways, what should I update the OP to?

 

[Sephiroths Masamune]

@ Seph:
The EB kids have bombs.
Lucario beats Luigi....apparently....
And Weegee only has his vacuum unless we give him sonething else (Kuribo shoes )

update the tread!

 

[IsmaR]

Doesn't/can't Marth use a shield as well? All those points were well made, but I'd imagine that Marth wouldn't be completely helpless if he were to be knocked down, especially if Pit's weapon of choice is a hammer. He's not being weighed down by as much armor as the samurai, I could see him rolling out of the way/tanking a hit with the shield with this being the case. Kinda iffy on the ladder, though; Pit's hammer is strong enough to break stone and does damage on par with the highest upgraded arrows. That should be enough to muster a kill, no?

 

[Nova9000]

Shield would be impractical yes, but I see no reason why he should not have a quiver of arrows on his side.

He could have a quiver on his side. I have no prob with that.

Wait, does Pit have wings or not? Nova said just a minute ago that he did; this is the reason he would need to carry his shield all the time.

Also: does he have his swords? If so, he's double-wielding, and, with enough skill, this would be a definite advantage against Marth's solitary sword. I figure they've got pretty good close-combat training in Palutena's army, and if they give you two swords then they're gonna be d*mn sure you can use 'em.

Yea he has wings, but he cannot fly with them. The most he can probably do is glide and that's considering how high he jumps and his form while doing so (look at how Pit glides in Brawl; he couldn't try to gain momentum and shoot an arrow simultaneously). And no he doesn't have his swords.

Don't sweat it.

Also, like I said in my above post, a shield has enough force behind it to leave a grown man helpless if the user knows how to hold his ground properly. Basicaly, someone trained in the ways of ancient Greece's way of fighting. See what I am getting at here?

Pit uses shield likie a spartan to defend himself from Marth's blows just like in the Spartan vs Samurai video at the very end. Pit with hammer and Shield and Marth with sword.

Even though the Katana was incredibly fast and had incredible cutting power, it was still not enough to pierce the Spatan's defenses and the spartan ended up pushing the Samurai out of balance and then took the stun produced by the clash of the katana and his shield to strike a swift blow that made the Samurai fall to the ground. And after that, the Spartan could easily finish the grounded opponent.



I see Pit doing exactly what the spartan did in the video. Not giving Marth a chance to deal a solid blow, then use the shield to push Marth into the ground and then take this chance to use his slow hammer to strike him dead.


This would imply him not getting his bow and arrows, and him carrying the hammer and shield like this:

That could work, but like you said before how strong is Pit?

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j75/JCudney/Kid_Icarus.jpg

That Pit looks strong enough to accomplish that feat.

http://www.players4players.com/fotosnoticias/6323830184a537121d93be.jpg

This one doesn't.
And you really want to give him a hammer he hardly uses in comparison to his bow and arrow? Because of the bow is why he won so many matches, so by stripping him of his bow you actually hinder Pit than help him.

Spoiler

Unless thats your plan...

anyways, what should I update the OP to?

V. Marth. Weegee loses all those MUs and Falco beats Zelda and loses to ZSS. And Our Boi beats Marth. So we're really just on Marth v. Pit.

Doesn't/can't Marth use a shield as well? All those points were well made, but I'd imagine that Marth wouldn't be completely helpless if he were to be knocked down, especially if Pit's weapon of choice is a hammer. He's not being weighed down by as much armor as the samurai, I could see him rolling out of the way/tanking a hit with the shield with this being the case. Kinda iffy on the ladder, though; Pit's hammer is strong enough to break stone and does damage on par with the highest upgraded arrows. That should be enough to muster a kill, no?

Marth has a shield? I never knew that...I thought it was only a chestplate.