SynikaL's Brawl Impressions: "When Hearts Cry" Edition

[MajinSweet]

It ain't that fresh. And one of the first things people did was check out everyone's basic movesets. That's why every single character specific area's got threads discussing it now. Heck, for most of them, it's possible to watch each of the moves in action simply by watching gameplay vids.

If you honestly think we already know all the best kill moves and how to use them based on one week of play, you have already made up your mind.

Well you see, Zelda's better but she's not that much better from what I can see. Her moves are still pretty weak (except for the Fair/Bair) damage-wise and she's never been much of a comboer either.


Yeah, only it lags a lot to switch between them.

Yeah, a lot of moves have lag. Doesn't mean there unusable.

Which very few characters have. Most characters that have spiking moves only have meteor smashes, which are now easier to cancel than ever because of the added freeze frames.

I heard meteor cancel was out.

 

[Magus420]

Dude. Transform now takes a number of seconds to do and takes literally about twice as long as before. It's not something you're going to be able to do freely in a match without being SEVERELY punished for it. If they have that much damage so that you can knock them far enough away with Sheik to safely transform, it's probably at the point where a weakened kick from Zelda would be able to KO them anyway and defeats the purpose of saving the power of the kick by using Sheik to build up damage for it.

 

[SynikaL]

^Let's not forget that it is much harder to get to people than in Melee due to the overall slower pace of the game. At least for now.


-Kimosabae

 

[Yojimbo]

It ain't that fresh. And one of the first things people did was check out everyone's basic movesets. That's why every single character specific area's got threads discussing it now. Heck, for most of them, it's possible to watch each of the moves in action simply by watching gameplay vids.


Well you see, Zelda's better but she's not that much better from what I can see. Her moves are still pretty weak (except for the Fair/Bair) damage-wise and she's never been much of a comboer either.


Yeah, only it lags a lot to switch between them.


Which very few characters have. Most characters that have spiking moves only have meteor smashes, which are now easier to cancel than ever because of the added freeze frames.

The game just came out not even a week ago. Sure, we have tons of videos but Melee's play changed drastically from when it came out. How in the world you define that as a game not being fresh is beyond all kinds of thinking. Great Job!

I won't comment on character discussion since I haven't picked it up. I don't think videos are enough to judge how a character feels because everyone has a different playstyle. We're only judging by potential and initial plays. Not enough time to grasp a firm hold on advanced techniques which took a long time to develop in Melee.

People need to give it time.

 

[Yuna]

The game was leaked before that and it's been available as a demo longer than that. The moves didn't magically change since the demo, just some techniques.

And we're talking about the basic moves here. Of course people tried them out since it came out. If a move was severely altered, people would've noticed by now. There's not going to be a new magical below 100% KO move being discovered tomorrow because, gasp, no one had ever thought of using it until now!

 

[FenrirIII]

I'm still trying to understand why this game is being played just like Melee is and then you guys whine that it isn't the same.
Like, duhhhh. :| It's Brawl, not Melee. Get used to the new system, try out new things with it and find the combos and advanced techniques like you did for Melee. Did you guys complain this much during the 64>Melee transfer? I wouldn't know, I wasn't even around these parts. I'm just curious because I know that Melee's system is pretty different from 64's and yet everyone seemed to adjust just fine.

 

[phanna]

ATTN: People who don't like this game.

Don't play it.

Stop trolling and go play Melee for the rest of your life. Nobody cares about your fear of what's in, or remorse of what's out. Nobody cares about your opinion on what was or was not a glitch in Melee. Nobody wants you to cry on their shoulder about your analysis of a days-old game, for match-ups, combos, strategy, or otherwise.

Although, I can't say you don't have your niche here in smashboards, as one of the headless chickens running around crying "the sky is falling" - because you at least generate some conversation for those of us waiting for the game, to pass our time.

 

[Ryan-K]

It's not like he's talking about techniques, he's talking about using a characters moveset in which testing should barely take ~10 minutes in training mode or something. He's talking about the power of certain attacks which isn't advanced in any way shape or form. It doesn't take a genius to point out "this move is weak" or "this move is strong", lol. There may be hidden little sweetspots or whatever but if there are that doesn't change the fact that characters in brawl last much longer.

 

[TheShredder]

Here's to hoping anyways. I'm a firm believer that Brawl can still have a deep competitive scene, it'll just take a while to learn new things and adjust to the new style of play. Will it be as deep as Melee? Only time will tell, but I'm certainly not writing it off yet.

 

[Yuna]

I'm still trying to understand why this game is being played just like Melee is and then you guys whine that it isn't the same.
Like, duhhhh. :| It's Brawl, not Melee. Get used to the new system, try out new things with it and find the combos and advanced techniques like you did for Melee. Did you guys complain this much during the 64>Melee transfer? I wouldn't know, I wasn't even around these parts. I'm just curious because I know that Melee's system is pretty different from 64's and yet everyone seemed to adjust just fine.

I'm perfectly fine with Brawl being a new game with new options. What I've seen so far, however, is disconcerting because the new options are very limited. You can only take a very limited game that far.

These very limits makes it very hard to come up with new combos. In fact, the limits pretty much makes it impossible unless someone finds a new truly game-breaking glitch that obviously wasn't programmed in (why would they program a game where it's really hard to combo unless you do this one game-breaking thing which is neither obvious or easy to discover?).

ATTN: People who don't like this game.

Don't play it.

Stop trolling and go play Melee for the rest of your life. Nobody cares about your fear of what's in, or remorse of what's out. Nobody cares about your opinion on what was or was not a glitch in Melee. Nobody wants you to cry on their shoulder about your analysis of a days-old game, for match-ups, combos, strategy, or otherwise.

Although, I can't say you don't have your niche here in smashboards, as one of the headless chickens running around crying "the sky is falling" - because you at least generate some conversation for those of us waiting for the game, to pass our time.

I wanted Brawl. I wanted to be better than Melee. I wanted it to trumph every other fighter on the market in terms of what appeals to me. And if some groundbreaking things are discovered that will make this possible, I'll be all for it.

What "we need" is some honest opinions and analysis of the game. What good does it do to the boards, the masses at large and even you if all of the opinions and analyses are all shallow and along the lines of "I love this game! It's so much fun! Fire bad, tree pretty!"? I mean, what do you possibly learn from that and what possible discussion that possibly stem from 29 threads about just that?

Yet, every time someone says something remotely negative, they're labeled Negative Nancies, told to stop trolling, to go away, to let people enjoy the game. How does SynikaL and me disliking X and Y things about the game in any way hamper your enjoyment of it? We're not standing over your shoulder whispering or shouting it. We're presenting out views and perceptions for others to read and take part of.

I'll play the game. It'll probably be fun. I'm not impressed so far, though. I don't tell you to what to and what not to do or say and even if you're a moderator, as long as what I do or say doesn't break any rules, you have no right to tell what to and what not to do or say either. In fact, as a moderator, you should know better than to say something like that. That's like giving the masses permission to troll and flame anyone who's negative citing "Well a mod said this".

It's not like he's talking about techniques, he's talking about using a characters moveset in which testing should barely take ~10 minutes in training mode or something. He's talking about the power of certain attacks which isn't advanced in any way shape or form. It doesn't take a genius to point out "this move is weak" or "this move is strong", lol. There may be hidden little sweetspots or whatever but if there are that doesn't change the fact that characters in brawl last much longer.

See, this is a person who obviously reads a post before replying to it. I wish more people would do that before flaming.

 

[Sanji]

I have Brawl, unlocked all the characters, played some online matches with a fellow smasher, and i completely agree with SynikaL.

I know its hard to believe, given Brawl has only been out for a few days, but think about it this way...

Almost everyone here played SSB64 and SSBM. Those games came out a long time ago. We should know every lil trick about each game, by now. People are saying Brawl has some hidden tricks we dont know about yet - i beg to differ. Think of how many people have the game right now constantly trying to find new AT's. I also have tried and cant find anything. Honestly, and i really hate to say it, but if Brawl does become competitive, every match will be close cuz of the limits, and dumb.

A good way to imagine the gameplay of Brawl...

Remember when Melee first came out, before you started playing with all the smashboards and competitive community, you most likel played with ur friends without knowing any advanced techniques (before you looked them up). This is how Brawl games are right now, and i fear/foresee that this isnt gonna change. I have tried so many ways to mind game and its like impossible. THey really screwed up by ruining the dash dancing physics.

 

[Crushed]

Remember when Melee first came out, before you started playing with all the smashboards and competitive community, you most likel played with ur friends without knowing any advanced techniques (before you looked them up). This is how Brawl games are right now

I don't get it.


Where's the bad part?

 

[TheShredder]

I'm perfectly fine with Brawl being a new game with new options. What I've seen so far, however, is disconcerting because the new options are very limited. You can only take a very limited game that far.

These very limits makes it very hard to come up with new combos. In fact, the limits pretty much makes it impossible unless someone finds a new truly game-breaking glitch that obviously wasn't programmed in (why would they program a game where it's really hard to combo unless you do this one game-breaking thing which is neither obvious or easy to discover?).

You seem to have a better understanding of the videos we've seen so far than myself, so I figure it's worth asking even if it is a bit of a digression: Is there really next to no way to combo right now? I mean, I saw Gimpy pull off an amazing combo at the end of one of his Luigi's Mansion rounds, but it never really donned on me that things aren't as combo happy at the moment. I guess I should have been watching a bit more analytically, but I did notice that spacing and general mobility seemed to be extremely important at the moment.

 

[NES n00b]

I don't get it.


Where's the bad part?

loligag?

If you do not go to tournies, why do you care about the opinions of future tourney scene?

 

[Sanji]

Too limited -- all close matches. Any random nub can pick up brawl and put up a good fight...


Also, all the people hating on the idea of Brawl not being competitive reminds me of when we found out the leaked roster...

No one wanted to believe it even though it made the most sense...funny.

Edit: So my overall opinion is... Brawl is good for the nubs and bad for the good players.

 

[Erave]

I'm getting a little tired of Melee, I'd like something different actually. I could care less about advanced techs, though it is fun to wavedash with Luigi on FD.

People are taking this game way too seriously. You're not supposed to play it like Melee. Durr.

 

[Crushed]

all close matches. Any random nub can pick up brawl and put up a good fight...

Still not seeing the bad here.

 

[Sanji]

Still not seeing the bad here.

if you were any good at melee, and cared about competition, you would understand me.

 

[TheShredder]

Too limited -- all close matches. Any random nub can pick up brawl and put up a good fight...


Also, all the people hating on the idea of Brawl not being competitive reminds me of when we found out the leaked roster...

No one wanted to believe it even though it made the most sense...funny.

Edit: So my overall opinion is... Brawl is good for the nubs and bad for the good players.

I'm trying to be respectful here, but I don't completely understand where you're coming from here. Granted, at the moment Brawl is certainly less tech heavy, more limiting, and more friendly to casuals, but this will by no means close the gap between so called scrubs and pros. Sloppy/stupid playing is still going to get you killed.

 

[Sanji]

TheShredder i have one question for you...

Have you played the game yet?

 

[Crushed]

if you were any good at melee, and cared about competition, you would understand me.

Well that's a logical statement. If someone doesn't get you, they're bad; because they're bad, they don't understand you.


That's not circular at all.

 

[TheShredder]

TheShredder i have one question for you...

Have you played the game yet?

Nope, I'm just basing this on Gimpy's new videos, where it looks to be the case. It wasn't intended as a personal attack, I'm genuinely trying to understand where you're coming from.

 

[Angrylobster]

Thats honestly not the problem, players like Crushed are still going to get owned without "glitches" just because of their mind set. The problem is if the game is interesting between competitive players themselves or not. If the ceiling for improvement is too low, the game will become boring and stale pretty quickly for competitive players.

This obviously matters not for the casual players, so I don't understand why they have to come into threads that are geared towards competitive players and troll when the matter at hand doesn't concern them.

 

[Rang Flash]

if you were any good at melee, and cared about competition, you would understand me.

I'm a pretty competitive player in Melee, and I don't really see how this is bad. They might be close matches, but the pros will still always win. If anything, the game being easy to pick up and put up a good fight will expand the competitive scene because there will be so many new people.

 

[sv3]

if you were any good at melee, and cared about competition, you would understand me.

If you knew anything about competition and its relation to fighting games, and didn't sit around getting spoon fed a meta game, you probably wouldn't be complaining as much.

That goes for a lot of people on these boards.

 

[NES n00b]

Well that's a logical statement. If someone doesn't get you, they're bad; because they're bad, they don't understand you.


That's not circular at all.

This all leads back to my question. If you do not care to get better at this game with alot of things to learn or a tourney scene that has lots of hard competition, then WHY DO YOU CARE?!?!?!

You obviously don't, so why do you persist to disagree to do so?

 

[TheShredder]

Thats honestly not the problem, players like Crushed are still going to get owned without "glitches" just because of their mind set. The problem is if the game is interesting between competitive players themselves or not. If the ceiling for improvement is too low, the game will become boring and stale pretty quickly for competitive players.

This obviously matters not for the casual players, so I don't understand why they have to come into threads that are geared towards competitive players and troll when the matter at hand doesn't concern them.

Now that actually does have me worried. If there's not enough there, will Brawl have any real staying power? I'm still being optimistic about where the game will be a year from now though.

 

[Yuna]

You seem to have a better understanding of the videos we've seen so far than myself, so I figure it's worth asking even if it is a bit of a digression: Is there really next to no way to combo right now? I mean, I saw Gimpy pull off an amazing combo at the end of one of his Luigi's Mansion rounds, but it never really donned on me that things aren't as combo happy at the moment. I guess I should have been watching a bit more analytically, but I did notice that spacing and general mobility seemed to be extremely important at the moment.

You mean the Bowser vs. Peach video where the Peach constantly kept rolling into Bowser and failed to ceiling-tech anything, thus opening up for a combo? If you're talking about aother video, please link me to them and I'll check it out.

 

[Crushed]

Thats honestly not the problem, players like Crushed are still going to get owned without "glitches" just because of their mind set. The problem is if the game is interesting between competitive players themselves or not. If the ceiling for improvement is too low, the game will become boring and stale pretty quickly for competitive players.

This obviously matters not for the casual players, so I don't understand why they have to come into threads that are geared towards competitive players and troll when the matter at hand doesn't concern them.

My "mind set"?

"Casual player"?

This all leads back to my question. If you do not care to get better at this game with alot of things to learn or a tourney scene that has lots of hard competition, then WHY DO YOU CARE?!?!?!

You obviously don't, so why do you persist to disagree to do so?

Uh, I do care about getting better at the game.

See, you guys have defined these things so narrowly that anybody who disagrees with you must not be "competitive" or "doesn't want to get better" or is "casual."

 

[TheDuplexDuo]

So to seem if this following input has no meaning within this thread but yet I feel it has about as much reverlence as half the comments in this thread. You can moan all you want, don't say THIS comment is useless I have already made a single substantial comment RELATING to the topic . Eg. The first post.

So allow me to say this;



YOU GUYS ARE RUINING PANCAKE DAY! ​

 

[Yuna]

Thats honestly not the problem, players like Crushed are still going to get owned without "glitches" just because of their mind set. The problem is if the game is interesting between competitive players themselves or not. If the ceiling for improvement is too low, the game will become boring and stale pretty quickly for competitive players.

This obviously matters not for the casual players, so I don't understand why they have to come into threads that are geared towards competitive players and troll when the matter at hand doesn't concern them.

I have had to repeat this very same thing over and over again, yet few people seem to grasp this point.

 

[Sanji]

NES n00b forget about Crush, hes hopeless as we can all see.

Anyways, i see alot of people are disagreeing or questioning my thoughts on the game, and i think its funny how im pretty sure not one of them has played the game and if they have, definitly not over an hour or so.

Guys, we could argue about this forever seeming as though you have never played the game. You dont know anything yet, so dont act like you know what you are talking about.

This just goes to show you how many people there are in fear that Brawl wont be a good competitive game.

 

[NES n00b]

My "mind set"?

"Casual player"?



Uh, I do care about getting better at the game.

See, you guys have defined these things so narrowly that anybody who disagrees with you must not be "competitive" or "doesn't want to get better" or is "casual."

You obviously don't since you practically said "I don't see the problem of the skill gap being that of one where you don't know what you were doing in Melee." It is a paraphrase, but that is what you implicitly said.

 

[TheShredder]

You mean the Bowser vs. Peach video where the Peach constantly kept rolling into Bowser and failed to ceiling-tech anything, thus opening up for a combo? If you're talking about aother video, please link me to them and I'll check it out.

Yep, that's the one. There's a nice looking combo around the 3:50 mark, but you're correct, there's not a lot of combos going on.

 

[Crushed]

You obviously don't since you practically said "I don't see the problem of the skill gap being that of one where you don't know what you were doing in Melee." It is a paraphrase, but that is what you implicitly said.

"Paraphrase" is an interesting way of saying, "I'm lying about what you said."

It's also cool how you shrugged off what I was actually saying with a simple, "no u are obviously a causual."

 

[Sanji]

AngryLobster: Funny post, lol, but youll be surprised man. Even players like Crushed have a chance of beating a "pro" Brawler, ill bet. Like i said before think of it as playing with your friends in Melee b4 you knew anything at all. Try playing a tournament like that...how exciting...

 

[Chexr]

Brawl is Melee 0.5

 

[Sanji]

Brawl is Melee 0.5

i would agree to that. maybe .3

 

[Crushed]

I love how the argument is now, "If you disagree with us, you must suck at the game."

 

[Sanji]

I love how the argument is now, "If you disagree with us, you must suck at the game."

Crushed, your an idiot. Seriously, what do you not understand about the game being noob and why thats a bad thing for competitive players, please tell me.