SynikaL's Brawl Impressions: "When Hearts Cry" Edition

[Proven]

But I never claimed it was an accurate assessment, I simply stated that I'm 100% confident in my belief system. Yes, I openly stated this is a very much prejudice opinion of the game. I also, stated that I'd eat an Aids infested v@gina if I somehow turned out to wrong. What more do you want from me?


-Kimosabae

Hmm, I guess either have more of a debate about it? Why else would you need to post your opinion on a discussion board rather than a blog or private journal?

 

[SynikaL]

You want me to debate the semantics of an openly prejudice opinion? What are you stupid? Go outside or something.

A blog or private journal? WTF would I post impressions to a video game to myself, or anyone else outside the fanbase?
-SynikaL

 

[Gavisi]

Huh. Didn't notice the part about you potentially eating a v@gina.

I guess I'm not used to people making claims with 100% confidence while admitting that their assessment may not be accurate. Seems like a contradiction. But whatever.

 

[Mooplet]

@ Dogenzaka:

What are you even doing on smashboards?

Slig ripped apart your argument.

Melee was a perfect game in that it catered to advanced players as well as casuals.

You might want a game that takes ten minutes to master, (bitter from your poor melee performance? i often hear people saying that they hated melee because the good players were 'too good') but the rest of us want a scalable game that will allow for practice to make perfect.

And those videos you linked us to are boring / uneventful.

Like someone said earlier in this topic, go back to giggling about costume colors and what character is your favorite.

We're here to play professionally.

 

[omG_A_coW]

the game focused on multiplayer-madness-and-fun more as a selling point.

I have always found that multiplayer-madness always loses in the long run.

Imagine you're doing a 4 player match with tons of items and its a blast. How many times can you use that item before its the exact same thing over and over again. I know when I play item matches its only fun for a while until I need a break from it. 4 people playing at once is also fun but it doesn't take long until the "multiplayer-madness"is once again replace with a 1v1 match up.

Same goes for other fighting or party games. The ones geared toward more "serious" gameplay are always fun for the longer amount of time. (can't think of any other games right now. Hmmm Street fighter? Mario Party? Counter Strike? Rayman raving rabbits?)I'm sure you can think of some more.)

Multiplayer madness fun only lasts for so long.

oh and hoorray 100th post!

 

[Proven]

Pro's may still win but they won't like it as much as winning in melee.



Yes. If you read his interview. Follow the dojo. See the footage of this game, read the impressions and understand nintendo's new philosophy than it's pretty **** apparent. Besides that I follow a gamedesign education my self and you have to understand these things to do any good over there. I just think it's the worst way you can approach the problem for a competitive point of view. It is the perfect way for a party game point of view since battles will be very very hecktick with all the random crap happening.

Besided that it becomes very apparent in the level design which have all kind of aditions that will interrupt the gameplay in a unpredictable way. Adding random stuff is a common way to balance games and it seem they took the same approach here. There is a reason why boardgames have a die for example just as they added this kind of stuff to brawl.

Like synikal I really hope we are wrong about this though but the movement as I see it now seems very annoying and sluggish.

I'll admit, I'm losing you here. One thing that was apparent from the first stages shown on the dojo is the amount of stages revealed that would be tournament fair. From the new Battlefield to even the Animal Crossing stage. We have two Pokemon Stadiums, Lylat Cruise (a little weird with the platform tilting), etc.

We already know items will be off, and I'm one of those that also feel that Final Smashes are not tournament viable whatsoever. The biggest complaints I see from synikal involve stuff like gravity and edge guarding that will be completely different thanks to different physics and attack properties. The only real viable complaints I see are his random control problem (that is really ****ing weird and needs to be figured out) and tripping, which I'm also 99% sure is not random but we'll never know until we can get AR on this thing and test frame by frame.

Basic control should be fluid from the get go. Melee ran way more smoother than ssb64 for example and that was one of the wow feelings i got from the game besides the new characters and all the new additions. It just felt like a giant step up. There is only so much you can alter with new discoveries. If a character just sluggishly stops than that is how that char is gonna stop. You can't alter a characters move. if the speed of the move is slow or the knockback is weird than that is just what you have to deal with. You might find a way to act fast after it but if it just takes a long time to come out that that is that.

I know you're not me, but the change from 64 to Melee was hard for me. Everybody felt so freaking different. I could easily beat level 9 computers in 64, and yet had to start over from level 1 in Melee because of the different physics. Once again we're getting a very drastic change of physics and it's screwing us up because we're still used to another physics system, and techniques and mechanics that have completely changed. I mean, when astronauts go up into space, they have to get a ****load of special training first because of how different it is up in space compared to earth. And even when they get back, they can't even walk at first because they still have to get back to used to Earth's gravity again. You don't even walk like on Earth on the moon, you can't at all, and I'm saying that Brawl, when it comes to comboing, KOing, and edge guarding, are all different in the same sense. Heck, someone even said that people that have never played Smash Bros before are learning the nuances a lot faster than casuals who have. Wasn't the same thing happening in Melee?

But perhaps I'm the overly optimistic one as usual. I still won't call this a crappy game without at least a month in my own hands.

 

[Low Sweep]

If they are taking out guarenteed follow ups and combos are hard to do because of how floaty the characters are then i believe sakuai wanted the people to have a even playing field. If your constantly getting knocked away then the system wants you to be able to recover so that you can have another chance. To competitive players this makes no sense because you messed up and got hit but now the system is saying "it's ok you get to try again because we made sure that there is either no guarenteed follow ups or low damage ones". Also with the removal of most or all ATs, you are trying to win with less options that you had before. Brawl to me just looks like melee with nothing but the basics. All brawl appears to be is just a bare bones fighter. Attack,block, and grab.

 

[Yuna]

We had our differences in the past (like once 3 years ago), but I agree with you whole-heartedly. People have been flaming me for being so negative towards this game (despite it being deserving of my venom) and it's nice to see yet another person (we're growing in numbers!) giving the game what it deserves (a severe thrashing).

It'll undoubtedly be fun to play and and make a good side tourney. But it's not tournament worthy. It's like opting for Dead or Alive 4 when you've got Virtua Fighter 5 standing by.

 

[Mambo]

It's good to be aware of all this, but for several of your points (like Falcon's upB) you're expecting it to do something different than what it acctuatly is. Same with the fact that people live longer, you're just expecting them to be knocked off sooner, rather than going for the kill moves, though I could see DI being the problem here. All you're points are true though, it just sounds like shock of Brawl being so different.

 

[billywill]

u guys need to lighten up just because all your wishes about the game aren't coming true
think of melee like riding a bike with training wheels
then think of brawl like riding a bike when u take off the training wheels..takes some time getting used to
least thats how i look at it

 

[Sliq]

You seem to be unaware that Nintendo Power is not a Nintendo-made magazine, it's a fan-made publication. So Nintendo Power mentioning it is about as significant as IGN talking about it

Except for the fact that Nintendo Power is dedicated solely to Nintendo.

My point wasn't that it was officially sanctioned by Nintendo, but the fact that the noobs at Nintendo Power knew about l-canceling because of it being in Smash 64 (as a glitch then, but in Melee it was purposely implemented). Furthermore, they knew about it before the game was even ****ing launched when they wrote the guide. The guide was released almost the same time as the game, so you can't even act like l-canceling is a glitch considering it's presence in Smash 64 and then Melee, and then its inclusion by a magazine filled with people who think c-sticking is cheap.

Brawl may be fun and everything, but comparison based off of what we know implies that Melee is a much deeper game
(simply because Sakurai chose to remove a lot of elements and reduce the skill required for certain actions (auto ledge sweet spot, wtf)).

Also, in those videos someone posted, they are playing as Peach, an already admittedly great character, vs. Sheik, a fast character. Slow characters weren't played, so its hard to base character balance off of only two characters playing.

I hope that Brawl will be sweet, but it seems like it isn't. I don't know. I guess we'll have to cross our fingers and see.

Also, anyone who thinks that AT's are "cheap" or "glitches," I will 100$ money match you in Brawl.

 

[phanna]

That's a pretty harsh review, but I can tell you walked in with the same hopes and aspirations as I have, so I can't really correct you where I haven't even played the game.

Still, I think one thing bears over all others, which you did caveat your post with, and that's that people don't know anything about the game yet. People have and will continue to claim to know things about the game, from before it was announced, to before it was released, to before it was played, to before it will be well understood. Time will clear all things, and I am confident that Nintendo hasn't botched their golden child, and that this will be the greatest fighting game ever made.

Based on your review, I don't think you truly accepted the warning people like GimpyFish and HugS have been sounding off, and that is that this is a totally different game. There is no reason to assume dash dancing this, wavedashing that, edge-guard this way, combo that way. When you walk in with all your Melee assumptions, even though you say you know it's a new game, of course you're going to be dissapointed and frustrated when it misbehaves.

I am going to do the same thing I did with Brawl as I did with Melee:

#1 Get the game and play it, as a video game, not some platform for my ego of how good I am. Accept that I suck, and not attempt to force-feed my character moves I'm told are good (or should be good, or were good in Melee).

#2 Through my enjoyment of the game, remember what I observe. Effects of button combinations. Items. Stages. Priority. character and player habits. What is good for adding %, what is good for finishing off. How to prolong my own stock.

#3 Get involved in the community, as a lurker. Don't run out and go "omgwtfbbq luk wut i fownd" posting some totally useless crap, simply because it was new to you. Instead, take in all these ******** posts by others. Take in the response they get. Some will actually have meaningful applications, as time will tell.

#4 Apply your knowledge. Go out and play people, on-line random matches, friend wifis, local smashfests, and eventually, tournaments. Continue having fun with the game, but apply everything you've learned. Never in this process should you force some weird play-style on yourself, either from what you would have expected from Melee, or what you were told to expect from Brawl. Let it flow.

#5 Having played through the game thoroughly, unlocked everything, played many matches with many characters on many levels, saw many "unusual" things which through the discourse of the community become more understood, you are now, at this point, MONTHS after the game comes out, equipped to analyze the game, and to discuss technique & strategy. At this point truly advanced techs will be emerging, which will then only be possible because of the context of mundane established by everyone freaking over every minutiae of the game.

#6 Now it is a competitive, well-understood game that you can have intelligent discourse in. Smash reached this stage about 3-4 years after it's release. So everyone needs to untwist their nuts and follow these steps.

Syn, only the 1st 3 lines of this post were directed at you btw. The rest is just stream of thought ranting, that your post induced because it was very insightful.

 

[Proven]

Except for the fact that Nintendo Power is dedicated solely to Nintendo.

My point wasn't that it was officially sanctioned by Nintendo, but the fact that the noobs at Nintendo Power knew about l-canceling because of it being in Smash 64 (as a glitch then, but in Melee it was purposely implemented). Furthermore, they knew about it before the game was even ****ing launched when they wrote the guide. The guide was released almost the same time as the game, so you can't even act like l-canceling is a glitch considering it's presence in Smash 64 and then Melee, and then its inclusion by a magazine filled with people who think c-sticking is cheap.

No, I'm pretty sure L-canceling was not a glitch/exploit in Smash64 simply because it was mentioned on the Smash Dojo for Smash64, which was supposedly run by Sakurai as well. Had it's own little section, as much as one button commands had sections, to itself.

Also: http://www.youtube.com/user/WifiWarsVideos

Edit: After looking at phana's post, I remember how good it was to be a lurker here...

 

[Demon Kirby]

These poeple need to not lighten up, they need to shut up.

These arguments never go anywhere. Nobody's opinions is changed. Why is that? Because both sides are ignorant, both of them. You cannot judge a game if you haven't played it and just go by what you see, and you cannot say that everything someone says is wrong. Brawl IS floatier. Brawl IS slower. Some people like these changes and others do not. That's what we call an opinion. Everyone has a different one. Some people say Brawl is a piece of dog crap, and others say it will be the greatest game of all time. Neither are right, and neither are wrong, because they are opinions. And bad ones at that, both of them.

Saying Brawl cannot be competitive is impossible to say for now. I honestly thought Smash 64 would never be competitive, and I was wrong. I am not perfect, and neither is anyone else on these boards. Unless you have a time machine or can see the future, then all you can do is make guesses. Some guesses are better than others, but they are still guesses.

Brawl is a new game that follows new rules. Saying that it cannot be competitive because it does not follow Melee's rules is just plain stupid. You cannot play Brawl the same way you play Melee. Smash 64 and Melee again follow different rules themselves, but both are competitive. What will make Brawl different?

Some people say it deserves a thrashing. Some say it deserves praise. Both are wrong until they play the game, and even then they are still wrong because everyone has a different opinion.

Let me say this for a millionth time: wait a year or two or three or maybe even four. Melee couldn't be fully judged until years after its release.

Personally-and not everyone will agree--I think that Brawl's first matches look more fun than Melee's first, and I am willing to bet that the first Brawl tourney will look more fun than Melee's first tourney to me. Some people will say different, but nobody should really care about their opinions of what they love because it's just that: their opinions.

My opinion? Brawl will be more fun than Melee, but for its competitive play that is up in the air at the moment, as was Smash 64's and Melee's at first.

 

[S2]

Phanna I think the most important point you made was your #6 - that it took Melee 3-4 years to become what it currently is.

While people are justified in simply not liking Brawl, first impressions are not a reflection of how deep or competitive it is.

I haven't played it, so I'm not going to defend Brawl as being good. But within less than a week after release, its impossible to give final judgement over it. After how much many members here played Melee, its going to be hard to judge Brawl on its own merit and not simply based on Melee. Since essentially all comparisons to Melee are biased in Melee's favor due to familiarity.

 

[Ryuker]

With all due respect but ss'b64's competitive scene never got close to the level melee's got. Melee's was approaching a national sports league if it 'hasn't reached it already while isai was ****** everyone with 0n to death comboes in the n64 scene. You can see the big options from the get go after having so much experience with smash and you see what potential it has and looking at brawl it will have to endure some major tweaks. I hope there is a ton of stuff still to be discovered cause it is needed to make this reach the level melee did. Really people don't seem to realise how great melee is sometimes.

Now the argument is not why brawl is a good game or a fun game. It's if it has potential to turn into something more then a fun party activity. We'll see...

 

[LoVer]

I think you blew everything up and out of proportion. Looking back on early MElee videos, I would have thought "is this really Melee"? Same for Smash 64. They were so slow and oher things it somewhat shocked me.

Please STOP all of this until the game is out after AT LEAST a year or two.

You said it. These pre-sale nay-sayers are likely same people that think they know everything about any given subject even when they have little to no experience in it.

Wait for release plus a few months, they we'll really see how the game plays.

 

[Adi]

My big issue is not really with the competitiveness but how slower characters are going to fare against faster characters without L-canceling, their metagame really suffers without any attacks they can use effectively.

 

[SynikaL]

Phanna:

I've been involved in competitive video game communities for a very long time, so I am very familiar with the idea of having preconceived ideals generated from a prosperous competitive title influence my initial opinions of the sequel.

I can say with confidence that change is not Brawl's inherent problem, it's the philosophies that clearly govern the game's mechanics. I know it's too early to call, but the point is, when you become aware that the restrictive philosophy behind this game play design is VERY real ( it will become VERY apparent to someone like you, especially, as I know you were quite intimate Melee's inner workings), you'll find it permeates itself throughout the game play, creating a very inauspicious view of the game's future.

Basically, the very game's mechanics are imposing their own restriction of growth. I'm concerned that any truly high level techniques (if any) will be breaches of these mechanics -- true glitches. That's disconcerting to me.

The game will be competitive w/o a doubt, because it will popular. But I'm concerned that will be its only merit.

-Kimosabae
(http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=88277&page=2)

 

[Card]

#1 Get the game and play it, as a video game, not some platform for my ego of how good I am. Accept that I suck, and not attempt to force-feed my character moves I'm told are good (or should be good, or were good in Melee).

The bolded part of what I quoted above is probably the best sentence in this entire thread. In my humble opinion, it pretty much sums up why we should be taking everyones criticism and praise on Brawl for a grain of salt. I have the Japanese copy of Brawl, and even I feel that people should take the impressions I write on my own blog with a grain of salt (Click my signature for the link).

Smash Brawl is not a piece of ****, nor is it a gift from the gods. Right now it is simply a brand new game, just waiting to be analyzed.

#5 Having played through the game thoroughly, unlocked everything, played many matches with many characters on many levels, saw many "unusual" things which through the discourse of the community become more understood, you are now, at this point, MONTHS after the game comes out, equipped to analyze the game, and to discuss technique & strategy. At this point truly advanced techs will be emerging, which will then only be possible because of the context of mundane established by everyone freaking over every minutiae of the game.

Good post altogether phanna. *cheer*

 

[Zoz0]

Wow Phanna, nicely put. I was going to try to post something to the same effect, but you did it more eloquently than I ever could have. Everybody just needs to relax and realize advanced techs will come, just not overnight.

 

[raphtmarqui]

I don't understand why the dev team had to try and fix something that wasn't even broken/

 

[Xengri]

To restate what some have said in a visual manner:


Brawl in its early stage.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5142fHYDdBc&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kBpCXNnqD6A


Melee in it's early stage
http://youtube.com/watch?v=O-xSNzYqHGg
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MNTEqCUYG0g

Melee now
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mj8ro3oLLtk
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vtAVvtbrwtE&feature=related

Summary:
You can't judge a fighting game's competitive potential right from the get go. Do you think back when Melee first came out any of us had any idea of what it would become later on?
Wait after a year to judge Brawl., maybe two.

( If you don't like the vids, that's not the point -_-... you still get what I'm talking about)

 

[SynikaL]

Referencing early Melee to Brawl simply does not apply. The community not only wasn't nearly as vast at Melee's introduction, the community in general wasn't as knowlegdable about the prior game or Smash's system in general. These are large factors to consider when moving from one game to next and how quickly people are able to tap into the next game's potential.

SoulCalibur 3 had a gamebreaker glitch introduced within a few days of its release (a more potent form of a glitch from SC2!). Capcom Fighting Jam didn't take very long to be considered non-viable. I could go on.

I'm not trying to be purposefully pessimistic, but you have to understand that the Smash community lacks much perspective when dealing with competitive games. Check the post in the link I gave in my last post.

-SynikaL

 

[Ryuker]

To restate what some have said in a visual manner:


Brawl in its early stage.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5142fHYDdBc&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kBpCXNnqD6A


Melee in it's early stage
http://youtube.com/watch?v=O-xSNzYqHGg
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MNTEqCUYG0g

Melee now
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Mj8ro3oLLtk
http://youtube.com/watch?v=vtAVvtbrwtE&feature=related

Summary:
You can't judge a fighting game's competitive potential right from the get go. Do you think back when Melee first came out any of us had any idea of what it would become later on?
Wait after a year to judge Brawl., maybe two.

( If you don't like the vids, that's not the point -_-... you still get what I'm talking about)

Besides whay syn said I would like too say you can see a lot of potential on the vids of the early stages of melee. They look a lot more appealing then the brawl vids do... . It just shows melee was awesome and the later vids show it got absolutely amazingly awesome. Let's see what we manage to do with brawl.

 

[Dan-E]

this is disappointing to the millionth degree.

To sum up what I think Synikal is saying, Brawl is regressing from Melee. Not simply adding stuff like what happened from SSB64 to melee, but intentionally removing things that were proven to add depth to the game. While there are things that were added such as multiple air dodges, they came at the cost of other things.

Blegh. Anyways good post Synikal. I hate life right now because of you but good post.

 

[Rose]

wow, I appreciate this thread so much. cool to know that my fears of brawl being terrible because of the design paradigm were justified.

But seriously, this board in general pisses me off. Every time someone (even someone with clout) speaks ill of brawl a cascade of n00blets with join dates in late 2007-2008 begin a chorus of "MELEE 2.0, MELEE 2.0" as though they wanted to make it absolutely obvious that they can't think for themselves and have never had an original idea in their entire life.

 

[SynikaL]

Yeah, when I see the phrase "Melee 2.0" or any implication of the concept I simply add that user on ignore.

It's really cleaned up the forums for me, actually.


-Kimosabae

 

[sHy)(gUy]

wow, I appreciate this thread so much. cool to know that my fears of brawl being terrible because of the design paradigm were justified.

But seriously, this board in general pisses me off. Every time someone (even someone with clout) speaks ill of brawl a cascade of n00blets with join dates in late 2007-2008 begin a chorus of "MELEE 2.0, MELEE 2.0" as though they wanted to make it absolutely obvious that they can't think for themselves and have never had an original idea in their entire life.

u call out noobs for trying too protect their game and not having original ideas yet u go along with someones opinion with out even playing the game, nice job

 

[ama(m/t)]

You pretty much took all my thoughts and organized them into a large, coherent post with punctuation and all that business.
Actually I'm pretty sure you saw my separate impressions, since you linked to this topic from the topic in which I was complaining.

I'm just here to declare support for everything in the opening post, and to say that I really hope that Brawl comes out with something fun for competition.

 

[sHy)(gUy]

Yeah, when I see the phrase "Melee 2.0" or any implication of the concept I simply add that user on ignore.

It's really cleaned up the forums for me, actually.


-Kimosabae

by that logic u should ignore phanna because that is what he was trying to point out to you, that the game fell short of your expectaions because of melee and u dont want to admit it...

 

[ama(m/t)]

He doesn't want to admit it, but he does actually.
His post consists of him talking about how the mechanics of the game are prohibitive of the development of the competitive side of the game, then going on to hope that someone finds something that makes the game competitive without having to break out of the confines of the mechanics.

 

[SolidSonic]

I know this may sound obvious, but I believe Brawl is more fun focused than skill. Though that doesn't mean there is no skill involved. Remember, it's fun focused, but it has skill in there somewhere

Thats the most mysterious usage of the word "fun" I've ever seen. Melee was hella fun focused, and at the same time it had a good amount of depth.

For most actual gamers out there (you know, excluding the kiddies and grannies that are buying the Wii), having technical depth that encourages competition just makes the game twice as fun.

" Skill in there somewhere ...... "

Isn't very encouraging.


This is not a shot at Brawl, just a shot at your post.

 

[Mr.C]

Noobs will always be noobs.

The people who have no idea how in depth Melee actually is....have no idea how watered down Brawl actually is. No one is saying Brawl won't be a good game. What the REAL competitive players are saying is that it is no where near as in depth and competitive as Melee.

Play 3rd strike then try going back to the original SF'ers, **** is pathetic.

 

[Zink]

Hmm. On one hand, I know Syn really knows his stuff. On the other, I can't imagine that Brawl will be so hopelessly shallow. Take the auto-sweetspot, for example. In Melee, when you "failed" to edgeguard, that meant your opponent had reached the stage and was now able to fight you. However, in Brawl, the "fail" state may only be that your opponent reaches the edge, putting more of a focus on intercepts and interdictions than on defending a set piece of turf. So in this case the shift is not really backwards, but sideways.
I don't deny that there may be serious errors, inimical to the competitive scene, made during Brawl's development. I do deny that they are insurmountable, whether through style changes or exploits.

 

[TheSpindoctor]

lol brawl sux. I CALLED IT!

end your life

 

[Mr.C]

Hmm. On one hand, I know Syn really knows his stuff. On the other, I can't imagine that Brawl will be so hopelessly shallow. Take the auto-sweetspot, for example. In Melee, when you "failed" to edgeguard, that meant your opponent had reached the stage and was now able to fight you. However, in Brawl, the "fail" state may only be that your opponent reaches the edge, putting more of a focus on intercepts and interdictions than on defending a set piece of turf. So in this case the shift is not really backwards, but sideways.
I don't deny that there may be serious errors, inimical to the competitive scene, made during Brawl's development. I do deny that they are insurmountable, whether through style changes or exploits.

Infinite upb stall IMO.

 

[DraginHikari]

wow, I appreciate this thread so much. cool to know that my fears of brawl being terrible because of the design paradigm were justified.

But seriously, this board in general pisses me off. Every time someone (even someone with clout) speaks ill of brawl a cascade of n00blets with join dates in late 2007-2008 begin a chorus of "MELEE 2.0, MELEE 2.0" as though they wanted to make it absolutely obvious that they can't think for themselves and have never had an original idea in their entire life.

From a neutal prespective that's not necessary the full reason why it's happening. First of all, insulting makes a majority of your point invalid to me but I will look at it like this:

The problem isn't the negative outlook in general but it's the OVERFLOW of this showing up, and for some people it does appear obixinous. Last week when the roster was revealed every other topic was someone complaining about either the roster or things in general. Even if it not directly complaining to alot of people that simply response with an attitude. Though it's not particular a good way to handle opposition unfortunely humanity in general has little self control when it comes to this.

Unfortunely I can say the same thing about the opposite side of the group as well... the casuals simply outnumber which makes them seem worse then it is... however some competitive players can be just as guilty about this, remember it doesn't matter how much you know about something if your attitude sucks.

 

[Zink]

Infinite upb stall IMO.

I suspect that will meet the same status as Peach wallbomb stall, as difficult as it is to ban such a vague technique (how many reps are "Stalling", for example?).

 

[Ryuker]

Yeah, when I see the phrase "Melee 2.0" or any implication of the concept I simply add that user on ignore.

It's really cleaned up the forums for me, actually.


-Kimosabae

Call me stupid but how do I do that? Nice to see the sensible players here don't respond with n00b or scrub but actually try to explain why. I don't know how many players I've replied too on the boards telling them there points for advanced techs being lame is absolutely dumb but atleast they stop after that.