Mario Universe SWF Mario Kart Events Thread [Definite Return for Mario Kart 8 :)]

BSP

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I agree with the 49/50

Most of the items aren't that bad. The worst imo is a really good Lightning use on a bad course which lets you zoom to first in 10 seconds.

Most good courses + good racers won't let you do that though.
 

Dre89

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What about things like blue shells and bullet bills? Bullet bill might not take you to first but it can get you a few places up the ladder.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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What about things like blue shells and bullet bills? Bullet bill might not take you to first but it can get you a few places up the ladder.
Maybe, but once the Bullet Bill is finished, one item attack, and you're pretty much back in dead last again.
 

Z'zgashi

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Bullet is more of a dodge item than anything (and sometimes it rapes you cuz you cant get rid of it) and blues are predictable and get blocked a lot easier than youd think. They also can be used tactfully to hit other people along with you to make it not as bad.
 

BSP

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What about things like blue shells and bullet bills? Bullet bill might not take you to first but it can get you a few places up the ladder.
You still have options against the blue shell. You can dodge it, take others with you, or you can just get enough of a lead to where 1 blue won't get you wrecked, which isn't that hard if you're clearly the best.

The perfect example of a lucky blue (ie last lap, just in front of the finish line) doesn't happen too often, and that's the one that can screw you over the most imo. That's why a TO should just increase the number of races so that freak occurrence doesn't screw up the results. Otherwise, blue shell isn't so bad that it stops the best from winning.

As for Bullet, it's pretty double edged. As Z'z said, you can't get rid of it by conventional means without using it, and it also stops you from getting anything else. MSG is right in that one item hit will send you right back down, and this is extremely likely because you can't pick up anything while the Bullet is active. More often than not, if you don't dodge lightning with your blue, you're getting hit by a red shell not too far in the future. There's also the ever present danger of it dropping you off the track or into a bad situation as well.

That being said, bullet can still give someone a lucky break, and it does happen, but that's why you do a lot of races and don't pick dumb courses. Luck won't save you 12 times in a row.

I believe that MKW's luck factor only really interferes when people are close in skill. When it's hard to establish a dominant lead, then it might come down to who gets what. Otherwise, the better person will get ahead and most likely stay there.
 

Shök

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The bill can actually take you to first. Just depends where and when you use it.
 

Gatlin

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What are considered the good tracks?

:phone:
This is actually kind of a hard question to answer in a way, since what is considered "good" is kind of up to the person.

Probably the majority's vote as to what are considered the best tracks would be popular ones such as Delfino Square, all Bowser Castles, Toad's Factory, etc. Those are the tracks you will definitely see the most being picked.

Then you have tracks which are generally viewed as bad, or "luck tracks". These would include tracks such as Luigi Circuit, Peach Beach, Mario Raceway 64, Shy Guy Beach, Mario Circuit 3, etc. The reasoning as to why these are deemed lucky is due to them being wide and very open tracks which allow for easy targetting, as well as their item box placements. Length also can and will have a deeming factor as well since Luigi Circuit and Peach Beach are both very small tracks which would allow anyone with a Golden Mushroom or Bill to rocket up in placement quickly.

Then finally you have the "front running" tracks, which in my opinion are the tracks which will actually show your skill as a racer. These tracks would include Rainbow Road, Moonview Highway, Ghost Valley 2, Toad's Factory, etc. These are the tracks which will allow the person(s) in top placement(s) to get a breakaway from the rest of the pack. These tracks have several turns and/or obstacles which get in the way of shells and items, which really only leaves room for the Blue Shell, target shocks, or a mistake on the racer's end to mess up their lead.

LOL what's the hell is wrong with the flower, the tail, and the blue shell that actually somewhat helps the person that throws it?

Especially the last one.
The flower is the equivalent of throwing like 4 Green Shells a second and you can spam it backwards and forward and repeatedly hit the same person. The tail has the ability to swipe away items without being affected as well as hit multiple people around you again, without having an affect on the item's time limit. I personally view them as being too OP. There is nothing wrong with the blue shell.
 

BSP

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I disagree with this weird bandwagon of some of you making the items seem like they're extremely less a part of the game than they really are lol.
Don't get me wrong, I think they're part of this game, but not enough to where the best players won't show through.

Or, as Dre mentioned, I don't think they're powerful enough to kill competitive drive.
:phone:
 

Z'zgashi

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Then nobody would play MKWii and the game would be a joke.
Just gonna mention that this was more a joke than anything lol. Imo, Tail/Fire Flower are badly designed, they heavily encourage spamming, and you get a lot for it working out, and nothing bad for missing or screwing up. Other items, like Bombs, shells, etc, if they work out for you can be huge, but on a mistake can blow you up/ricochet and hit you, to punish a mistake. You dont have ANY repercussions for screwing up with Flower/Tail, when they hit you can demolish other players stupidly easy, and they quite frankly are just too spam happy/impossible to counter imo. As for Lucky 7, I think its actually a great Power item. While it gives you so much, you have to actually be smart with it as another player running into the star or shooting the bomb with a shell can ruin it for you, making it have some risk to go along with all that reward. A good item imo, would definitely not be against seeing it brought back in the future. The Blue shell change I have mixed feelings on; I dont think its OP since it follows the middle of the track and people hug corners making it usually miss, but I dont think a non power item should be able to do as much as that specific blue does, so while I dont mind the changes, I do think in order to keep it how it is, it needs some tweaks in its hitbox size, how to trigger it, what places you can pull it, etc. So basically, Lucky 7 = Good item, New Blue = Needs some tweaks but I dont mind the concept, Tail/Flower = Badly designed items.

As for Bullet, it's pretty double edged. As Z'z said, you can't get rid of it by conventional means without using it, and it also stops you from getting anything else. MSG is right in that one item hit will send you right back down, and this is extremely likely because you can't pick up anything while the Bullet is active. More often than not, if you don't dodge lightning with your blue, you're getting hit by a red shell not too far in the future. There's also the ever present danger of it dropping you off the track or into a bad situation as well.

That being said, bullet can still give someone a lucky break, and it does happen, but that's why you do a lot of races and don't pick dumb courses. Luck won't save you 12 times in a row.
This. Bullet along with Lightning are both undeniably the most powerful items from a potential reward standpoint, but both have repercussions, weaknesses, or strategies to overcome them. Bullet is the highest priority item in the game, in beats out everything, gives you the highest speed of any item, makes you a giant moving hitbox, etc. From that, youd think its overpowered, but its weaknesses, or downsides, are that for one, you cant control it, meaning you cant do shortcuts with it without chaining, it lasts less long the faster you go up in place, meaning it can have unpredictable durability times and can drop you on items at the end, its power and fact that you dont want to waste it, means you have to hold it which means no other items until you use it or lose it, and in order to get one, you need to be in one of the VERY bottom spots. For lightning, while it shocks everybody and slows everything down but you allowing you to pass everyone if used right, a lot of things dodge/cancel/block it, meaning it can disable a lot of the reward, the target shock areas are the best way to get reward out of it, but at the same time that makes it more predicable to go for the highest reward, like the bullet you need to be in one of the very bottom spots to get it, and also, it gives you no personal buff, it just hits everyone else, youre still vulnerable to EVERYTHING when you use it and if youre hit as/after you use it, you lose your chance to get much of anything out of it.

The bill can actually take you to first. Just depends where and when you use it.
So can a good Lightning, so can a blue shell, so can a snipe with a Shell/Naner/Fib, so can a single shroom shortcut, etc. All items can get you into first, and the best ones at doing so require you to hit the very back of the pack in order to get them.

What are considered the good tracks?
There arent so much 'Good Tracks' so much as Popular Tracks. Then to counter that, there are basically 'Luck Tracks', and 'Ultra Shortcut/Glitch Tracks'. The Luck tracks (Luigi Circuit, Shy Guy Beach, etc) are easy to abuse with items, whether it be through item box placement, massive shortcuts at the end, etc, meaning a single good item at a specific time can win you the game even if you didnt do too great. Then for the Glitch Tracks (Grumble Volcano, Coconut Mall, etc) are stages that arent so much bad, just that they have easy to abuse glitches that are impossible to beat without doing them yourself when theyre done correctly, that in tournaments and such have those cuts banned. While they are definitely not bad courses, you need to make sure not to go there against people who will abuse said glitches or you will lose and there is no way to avoid it (aside from the players doing the glitches messing them up.

I disagree with this weird bandwagon of some of you making the items seem like they're extremely less a part of the game than they really are lol.
Name one non-gimmicky tournament we've EVER had that items effected to the point where it screwed up results? The better players have always won, and the less good players have always lost. Shok/Travis always take a top spot, regardless of how bad the items where, and outside of some jumbling in the middle with close people in skill (like me, box, bsp, etc), the results have NEVER been crazy, even with the items. While items CAN effect some races, better players will do better on the other stages, and make up for it, in the end making the results end up how they should be. Besides, its not only items that skew results, its the courses to, theyre just as bad, if not worse in some instances.

This is actually kind of a hard question to answer in a way, since what is considered "good" is kind of up to the person.

Probably the majority's vote as to what are considered the best tracks would be popular ones such as Delfino Square, all Bowser Castles, Toad's Factory, etc. Those are the tracks you will definitely see the most being picked.

Then you have tracks which are generally viewed as bad, or "luck tracks". These would include tracks such as Luigi Circuit, Peach Beach, Mario Raceway 64, Shy Guy Beach, Mario Circuit 3, etc. The reasoning as to why these are deemed lucky is due to them being wide and very open tracks which allow for easy targetting, as well as their item box placements. Length also can and will have a deeming factor as well since Luigi Circuit and Peach Beach are both very small tracks which would allow anyone with a Golden Mushroom or Bill to rocket up in placement quickly.

Then finally you have the "front running" tracks, which in my opinion are the tracks which will actually show your skill as a racer. These tracks would include Rainbow Road, Moonview Highway, Ghost Valley 2, Toad's Factory, etc. These are the tracks which will allow the person(s) in top placement(s) to get a breakaway from the rest of the pack. These tracks have several turns and/or obstacles which get in the way of shells and items, which really only leaves room for the Blue Shell, target shocks, or a mistake on the racer's end to mess up their lead.
This.

Don't get me wrong, I think they're part of this game, but not enough to where the best players won't show through.

Or, as Dre mentioned, I don't think they're powerful enough to kill competitive drive.
:phone:
Also this.
 

Dre89

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I'm learning so much right now.

Are other characters apart from Funky and Daisy viable? What about other vehicles apart from the Mach and Flamerunner?

:phone:
 

Z'zgashi

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Imo Id say the tier list is something like:

Top Tier: Funky Kong, Daisy
High Tier: Heavy Mii, Rosalina, Baby Daisy, Bowser
High Mid Tier: Wario, Dry Bowser, Baby Luigi, Medium Mii, Small Mii
Mid Tier: Peach, Luigi, Donkey Kong, Toadette, Baby Peach
Low Mid Tier: Waluigi, Birdo, Diddy Kong, Bowser Jr., King Boo
Low Tier: Yoshi, Mario, Dry Bones, Koopa Troopa
Bottom Tier: Toad, Baby Mario

And as for Vehicles:
**** Tier:
Flame Runner, Mach Bike, Bullet Bike

Still Good Tier:
Spear, Sneakster, Magikruiser, Jet Bubble

Doable Tier:
Dolphin Dasher, Quacker, Flame Flyer, Wild Wing, Mini Beast

Good Luck Tier:
Shooting Star, Jetsetter, Honeycoupe, Piranha Prowler, Sprinter, Super Blooper, Blue Falcon

Garbage Tier:
Phantom, Standard Bike L, Standard Kart L, Standard Bike M, Zip Zip, Standard Kart M, Standard Bike S, Tiny Titan, Standard Kart S

Holy **** WTF Are You Doing Tier:
Wario Bike, Offroader, Sugarscoot, Classic Dragster, Daytripper, Bit Bike, Cheep Charger

It's Funny Cuz Baby Mario Tier:
Booster Seat
I remember there were 1 or 2 things that I wanted to change in that vehicle list, but I cant remember what they were... Regardless, I still feel its a good idea of the list is and should be quite reliable.
 

Z'zgashi

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You worded that wrong lol. You mean 'I'm not disagreeing that skill overrides items.'

And no one is saying that they dont affect nothing, no one ever has, we're just saying that in the end of tournaments and such, skill will be enough of a factor that people wont rank higher than they should have been due to items.
 

Brickbox

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Yah items and luck do play a big role but at the end of the day skill shines through.
 

Dre89

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I don't see how lightning is dodgeble though. I mean yeah you can dodge it, but you guys are making out it's so easy to dodge it's not really a problem. Only a few items block it, and you have to know when the opponent is going to use it, which is pretty hard to predict even if you know when the bottom positions pass through item blocks.
 

Shök

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I don't see how lightning is dodgeble though. I mean yeah you can dodge it, but you guys are making out it's so easy to dodge it's not really a problem. Only a few items block it, and you have to know when the opponent is going to use it, which is pretty hard to predict even if you know when the bottom positions pass through item blocks.
It's pretty much like you said. It can come down to predicting or it can come down to luck.

For example, one way to predict is to put yourself in that position. What if you had the shock? You know the course. Which set of boxes are the most optimal to chain your shock at? Maybe if the pack is really close and there is a set of boxes coming up, you might want to chain it there. Maybe they want to target shock the guy in first because he's close to the pack. So on and so forth. You have to keep these things in mind when you want to predict a shock. Also, if there is a "noob" in the room (like a random named Ben with 6000 VR) they will most likely simply spam the shock since that's what they always do. Ha ha.

Keep in mind that the shock is obtainable around 25-30 seconds into the race and the next shock cannot be obtained until 25-30 seconds have passed, so you can also play around that.

However, there is also the luck factor. You can be in a dodge (mega, star, bill, cannon) the WHOLE race and a shock will not happen. Or, the shock will be used very randomly (keep in mind that some players do this on purpose so it cannot be predicted). Or, there might even be up to 3-4 shocks a race.

So, as you can see, those are some things to keep in mind.
 
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I don't get why Baby Luigi and Baby Daisy are not listed nearly as high up as Daisy on that list of your Z'zgashi. By stats alone, they only lose to her by a point of speed and a sizeable chuck in weight when they are on the Bullet Bike. The rest of the stats they beat Daisy in other categories from 1 or more points except acceleration where they whoop her. Ignoring the minor differences of the small points, the choice of character seems to come down to size, acceleration, and weight. Although, I am not sure which should carry more weight.

Then again, weight seems to make a bigger difference than I give it credit for usually. Going off jumps in a heavier kart versus a lighter one makes such a huge difference.
--------------
Anyway, how the hell am I suppose to consistently get 3 star in all cups? Unless I get really unfortunate will item selection getting one and two stars are no problem any more. But, I can never seem to get the three star even though I get 60/60 on a cup and hit nearly every trick and wheelie I can think of. I think how often you hit the others makes a difference, but I do not see how that could help. If I am hitting every trick, wheelie, and turbo-boost I can you get pretty far ahead of the other karts and it makes it hard to ever land a hit on someone relying upon luck that they run into the item.
 

BSP

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Ninja'd

So look at this instead: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AvUtRe6w8dU

Nutshell

Get 60 points
DO NOT FALL OFF
Don't hit course hazards
Stay out of positions 9-12
Don't drive offroad without boosts

Try to hit CPUs if you can, but the important things are the above list.

Tricks, mini turbos, boosts, CPU's hitting you, dragging items, etc. have no effect on your rank. So actually, staying in first doesn't matter outside of getting 60 points, but it seems that way because doing everything to stay in first will decrease your total time, which makes everything else look less important.

This person has a whole series proving his observations. Take a look.

I feel stupid now. Staying in first means almost nothing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pCWwnGNMeo
 

Brickbox

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I don't get why Baby Luigi and Baby Daisy are not listed nearly as high up as Daisy on that list of your Z'zgashi. By stats alone, they only lose to her by a point of speed and a sizeable chuck in weight when they are on the Bullet Bike. The rest of the stats they beat Daisy in other categories from 1 or more points except acceleration where they whoop her. Ignoring the minor differences of the small points, the choice of character seems to come down to size, acceleration, and weight. Although, I am not sure which should carry more weight.
Well at a high level(meaning other players are mostly funky/daisy) weight is super important. You could have the best stats in the game but with no weight and everyone else having lots of weight in 10 or more person room your almost guaranteed to get bumped in a way that your going to lose a lot of time.
If the tier list was based on say a 2-4 player room they would be much higher on the list. Lightweights are good but I can almost guarantee no matter how good you are your gonna get weight wrecked at least once a cup.
 
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Okay, that is a huge help in deciding what to change. I do recall a lot of times where I would hit stage hazards and collide with the stage in someway even though I got the full 60 points.
Hmm... I have not played with many other people who are fairly decent, so I usually ignored weight in terms of colliding with other players. I usually only ever considered weight when going off jumps since I really noticed some really whacky things when going back and forth between the class weights. Although, that sort of brings up another question I had which I wasn't sure of regarding course routes.

Many courses have a couple of choices in the proposed route you could possibly take. Many of them involve small ramps placed in the middle of the track which could either be avoided or taken. For example, Moo Moo Meadows there is a small ramp which could be taken or avoided. Maple Treeway before the finish line there are a series of roots you can trick off of which depending upon the angle and how far up on it you go can give you massive air. In GBA Bowser Castle 3, there is another ramp which gives you massive air that you could trick off of or completely avoid it in favor of doing a wheelie. My question is how fast does a kart go when its in the air compared to on the ground? I always thought being in the air too long was bad because you got a higher speed on the ground than in the air. This also leads to my general concern about air, I think being more light weight gives you more air time than a heavier weight.
 

Muhti

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I always use Baby Luigi in Magikruiser. Once people start realizing Im the one always getting 3rd- 1st, they always use their weight to push me off (stupid Funky Kong)
 

Z'zgashi

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I don't get why Baby Luigi and Baby Daisy are not listed nearly as high up as Daisy on that list of your Z'zgashi. By stats alone, they only lose to her by a point of speed and a sizeable chuck in weight when they are on the Bullet Bike. The rest of the stats they beat Daisy in other categories from 1 or more points except acceleration where they whoop her. Ignoring the minor differences of the small points, the choice of character seems to come down to size, acceleration, and weight. Although, I am not sure which should carry more weight.
Flame Runner and Mach Bike are better than the Bullet Bike, Speed > All, and Weight is incredibly important (a big reason why Bowser is good).

And by stats alone, BDaisy easily has the best stats. The problem is, in actual high level races, Light Weights just arent that great. Luckily, her insane stats carry her up pretty high, but it still doesnt make her as good as the top Heavies and Daisy.
 

Brickbox

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Many courses have a couple of choices in the proposed route you could possibly take. Many of them involve small ramps placed in the middle of the track which could either be avoided or taken. For example, Moo Moo Meadows there is a small ramp which could be taken or avoided. Maple Treeway before the finish line there are a series of roots you can trick off of which depending upon the angle and how far up on it you go can give you massive air. In GBA Bowser Castle 3, there is another ramp which gives you massive air that you could trick off of or completely avoid it in favor of doing a wheelie. My question is how fast does a kart go when its in the air compared to on the ground? I always thought being in the air too long was bad because you got a higher speed on the ground than in the air. This also leads to my general concern about air, I think being more light weight gives you more air time than a heavier weight.[/QUOTE]
Messed up the quote thing to lazy to fox it since I'm not on a comp :p

I don't think you get more air time as a light weight I think it is the same? It comes down to track knowledge.
Like moo moo meadows it is not faster to take the ramp on 150cc but on 100 it is faster or the same to take the ramp and trick on it.(pretty sure idk for sure)

Maple treeway don't take the roots take the tree path to the left or the right(Right is preferred and faster).

Not sure if weight=Air time, I don't think it does.
 

kinghippo99

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Weight has no effect on air-time, and it's generally faster to stay on the ground when possible. Merry Christmas.
 

Dre89

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Does the difference in weight affect a collision between two characters?

What I mean is, if I hit BMario with the flame runner, will the affect be smaller than if i hit him with the piranha prowler?
 

Gatlin

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Now that I have internet and my Wii back and such, I'd be willing, Cam + any others.

I kinda wonder how alive this community still is though, some people are still around in Skype, but others I'm not sure still check around in this thread. It'd be pretty cool to have some sort of an event; but I don't want to if it'll just be like 5 or less people.
 
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