Surpise Spike on Recovery

[HADOOKEN]

werd marf mains,

hopefully most u know this, but i doubt most use it,... i'm just starting to get the hang of it,

i guess i'll call it suprize spike: 4 now....

when your drifting back to the ledge and you have a good feeling that "opponent" is going to hop out atchu and try to atk/ ko, you can spike with out havin to double jump before by doing one of two things:

1. already beholding down before fast fall initiates and spike
2. TILT down to spike, dont press all the way down.

this way you can meteorsmash em' without fastfalling... often to marf's doom.

i'm starting to impliment this and i'm getting out of DDD's wall o pain and this also stops DK players that like to jump out and FowardAir, and many other examples


EXPERIMENT, cuz i've never seen this in anyones vids but i'm starting to excell @ it AND SO CAN U BE!

 

[∫unk]

I didn't understand a single word of what you said.

l2english

 

[ADMJP]

I had to use the altavista moron to english translator to understand this only to see that he isnt mentioning anything worthwhile.

Basically hes saying that while you recover, and your opponent is trying to edgeguard you, try to spike them instead of securing your recovery.

 

[feardragon64]

I told myself I would cut back on my flaming

But that's ********.

Edit: The idea. I'm not going to address the language.

 

[TLMSheikant]

What junk in the trunk said is the truth. 10 English lessons. And im totally in for this i dair my opponents because its so safe! And my priority while im offstage isnt to recover its just to spike my opponents. Wow this thread fails so hard.

 

[Johnny Pteran]

 

[Zeallyx]

I didn't understand a single word of what you said.

l2english

isn't it: learn2english or lrn2english though

anyway, the topic creator has a point I guess, it can work

 

[SuSa]

weird marth mains,

Hopefully most of you know this, but I doubt most use it... I'm just now starting to get the hang of it.

I guess I'll call it surprise spike: 4 now....

When your drifting back to the ledge and you have a good feeling that your opponent is going to hop out at you and try to attack/KO you, you can spike with out having to double jump before by doing one of three things:

1. Already be holding down before fast fall initiates and spike
2. TILT down to spike, don't press all the way down
3. Footstool them first so you don't die/// added by Havokk (the smart mans way)

This way you can meteorsmash them without fastfalling to your doom

I'm starting to implement this and I'm getting out of DDD's wall o pain and this also stops DK players that like to jump out and fair, and many other examples


EXPERIMENT, because I've never seen this in anyones vids but I'm starting to excel @ it AND SO CAN YOU!

Fixed.

10fixes... and 2 edits.

 

[Daea]

lol although everyone has a point about the op's poor english and about how dair is a poor move to use in general - I've actually experienced what he's talking about. The situation arises when/if you're at a very high percent, and have been knocked high and away from the stage - while you're drifting down diagonally towards the stage, it actually is quite easy to dair an opponent that you anticipate will try and jump out to meet you. It works because as long as you are approaching from above, and they're coming from below, the spacing for the dair is easier/optimal to meteor with. Also, if you time it relatively well, even if you clank with your opponents aerial that they're meeting you with, you'll quite often spike them, whereas you yourself will be hit up again, so you can recover quite safely. This way, even fastfalling the dair isn't that huge of a worry, because you know your fall will be interrupted. Interestingly enough, I've managed to pull this off sparingly against MK players above all, perhaps maybe because there are more of them, but also because they're more prone to off-stage chasing given the numerous jumps.

For the record: I rarely if ever choose this option because your general priority after being knocked out, like everyone else has said, is to safely reach the stage. However, if the opportunity arises where your opponent is trying to chase you coming from underneath, and you are recovering quite high, it really isn't that bad of an option. If you do manage to pull it off, it does condition them against chasing off the stage a fair bit, and is surprising enough to fairly guarantee you the kill if you do connect the tipper'd meteor.

I think yall shouldn't flame the OP that much - don't knock it til you've tried it

 

[feardragon64]

lol although everyone has a point about the op's poor english and about how dair is a poor move to use in general - I've actually experienced what he's talking about. The situation arises when/if you're at a very high percent, and have been knocked high and away from the stage - while you're drifting down diagonally towards the stage, it actually is quite easy to dair an opponent that you anticipate will try and jump out to meet you.

If it's that obvious then just counter or dolphin slash. It'll be a hell of a lot safer.

10counters

 

[Remzi]

Lol I actually didn't understand it until havokks translation. Anyways, if you guess wrong you eat a fair. Not really worth it.

 

[Punishment Divine]

Wow, we are all *******s.

On that note, cool story bro

 

[Daea]

If it's that obvious then just counter or dolphin slash. It'll be a hell of a lot safer.

10counters

Well yeah, but that's low-risk, fairly-low reward, whereas this would be moderate risk, possibility of high reward. Plus, people going for the chase/juggle will wait for your air dodge, your counter, your etc. when they get close to you, but almost none will air dodge in such a situation, since they are the aggressor. As such, this is a good surprise scare tactic - whereas you might whiff the counter (ds not so much, but I don't like the idea of using your last recovery move when you're still relatively high away from the stage), unless they miraculously predict you and air dodge, you're going to connect with the dair if you space/time it correctly.

Like I said before, it's not something to use often at all, but it's something to consider when the situation does arise, because under the right circumstances and execution, it does work. You can't go around playing the game 100% safe 100% of the time, you'll inevitably need to take some risks to reap high rewards.

 

[Cloud Cleaver]

Probably not that useful in an immediate tactical sense, but great for mindgames, like Daea said. If you pull it off, they'll think twice about repeating the behavior, allowing for easier aerial recovery next time.

 

[TLMSheikant]

Probably not that useful in an immediate tactical sense, but great for mindgames, like Daea said. If you pull it off, they'll think twice about repeating the behavior, allowing for easier aerial recovery next time.

Or they could think: "nah, he just got lucky" and repeat it but this time theyre more aware and u dair and they swat u away with a fair. sorry but i doubt this would work against smart opponents.

 

[Daea]

Or they could think: "nah, he just got lucky" and repeat it but this time theyre more aware and u dair and they swat u away with a fair. sorry but i doubt this would work against smart opponents.

This has absolutely nothing to do with being "smart" or not. When you aggressively chase someone off the stage, are you going to air dodge before you try and hit them back out? The way I see it, there are two ways for your stated scenario of "you dair and they swat you away with a fair" to work. Number one, is if the person chasing you has amazing predictive abilities and air dodged your dair, and then hit you with a fair. But let's be honest, how many people who chase others off the stage air dodge themselves before they go for a hit? If anything, they expect their opponent to air dodge, and thus may wait for their opponent to do so - this is why I said something reactive like counter may not be as good of an option.

Number two scenario for "you dair and they swat you away with a fair" - this would entail that you missed the dair (either through mistiming or misspacing) - meaning that it was YOUR mistake. Dair's range is not in anyway poor. There aren't that may attacks that will completely outprioritize and outrange you, and like I stated earlier, if you two trade hits, they will be the one meteor'd, while you'll be hit up higher where you have a better chance at recovering. If you whiff the dair, only to be hit by a fair, that's YOUR fault for mis-timing or mis-spacing the dair. I don't understand your logic - your point is like arguing that you shouldn't air dodge because "you'll air dodge and then they'll swat you away with a fair."

Lastly, the point of this is a one-time deal. If you manage to pull it off, you just earned yourself a free kill, whether low, mid, or high percentage. You're not going to do it every single time they chase you, so if they think "he got lucky" and come after you again, you're going to do something different like air dodge, counter, DS, w/e. You're assuming the mindset of a scrub predictable marth that does the same thing over and over again.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Hay GuYs!

Ded U Know TAt If YUo put 1 foot In fRunt Ov De oTher aNd RetpeaT Za moTion , den You kan Wak In a straiGht lin?????

Ded You Know tat GUYS?

Edit: when im sarcastic i write in hot pink.

 

[Daea]

Hay GuYs!

Ded U Know TAt If YUo put 1 foot In fRunt Ov De oTher aNd RetpeaT Za moTion , den You kan Wak In a straiGht lin?????

Ded You Know tat GUYS?

Edit: when im sarcastic i write in hot pink.

How about you not be a prick and contribute something useful? Unless you yourself have implemented this to perfection and know all about its merits and weaknesses prior to this thread, then how is this in anyway obvious? The obvious thing to do when being chased is air dodge or counter - most people do not consider using the dair - as such your comment doesn't really have a place here.

You know, it's really heart-warming to know that there're people like you around that will make an effort to randomly capitalize letters and spell words incorrectly just to put others down and get your post count up by one. It's really a productive way to spend your time.

 

[∫unk]

daea calm down

this is still a bad thread

 

[K 2]

lolz...the marth boards are big bullies >.>

Wouldn't fair be the safest option, given its speed, range, and unpunishablilty?

 

[3xSwords]

Probably not that useful in an immediate tactical sense, but great for mindgames, like Daea said. If you pull it off, they'll think twice about repeating the behavior, allowing for easier aerial recovery next time.

This has nothing to do with mindgames.... -_- This is basically punishing anybody that mis-spaces their aggressive approach at Marth which is probably one of the worst options in the scenario described.

Or they could think: "nah, he just got lucky" and repeat it but this time theyre more aware and u dair and they swat u away with a fair. sorry but i doubt this would work against smart opponents.

Of course it wouldn't.

This has absolutely nothing to do with being "smart" or not.

Yes it has everything to do with whether or not the opponent is smart. If the opponent is smart then he will realize that he is giving up optimal stage positioning in order to go after Marth. In the scenario described in the OP Marth is above the stage and descending, therefore the correct option is for the opponent to stay where he is. Of course everybody can be stupid once in a while and it's nice to get that freebie kill. (That and there is also conditioning and whatnot so....)

The only thing you should get from this thread at all is..... tilting down on the analog stick without FF'ing and then c-stick down will stop you from FF dair'ing while descending with c-stick set to smashes.

 

[Daea]

I'm not mad at all Junk, I just figured that somebody needed to say it, given his post had no purpose whatsoever other than to insult the OP and up his own post count. You are right about the thread though, given the relatively poor quality and explanation of the first post.

@K 2, just read through the original posts, if you're talking safety and want a low-risk, low-reward option, then yes, something like fair, counter, air dodge, would be the "safest" option. However, the OP's point was that to mix things up, you could try to dair as well. Like I stated earlier, dair's range and priority is not poor, and against someone approaching from below, is a viable option. This is an option if you are looking for higher-risk, high-reward, i.e., if you're at a very high percentage and your opponent is a medium percent, you just might turn the tables if you pull it off. It's not anything to use often at all, but can be pulled off under the right circumstances.

3xSwords, I guess you're definitely right about the stage positioning part, but realistically, sometimes even a smart opponent will attempt a higher-risk option and chase you, even though it might be the safest option to stay where he is and maintain control of the stage. All I'm saying is that it's not as stupid as it might seem at first, that's it.

Imo, there's too much of an emphasis around the marth boards on always doing what's "safe." Granted, it is extremely important to play it safe in brawl, but I don't think always doing what's safe, never taking any risks, is the way to go. You can kind of think of it as a race between two individuals. If these two individuals are perfectly matched, and play it perfectly safe, it's as if they maintain an identical pace, and will ultimately reach the finish line almost at the same exact time, and the race will be decided by a little bit of "luck," per se. But let's say one opponent does something "unsafe," something "high risk, high reward" and does manage to pull it off. In terms of the race analogy, he invariably ends up ahead of his opponent, and if they both keep on "playing it safe," the person who took the high risk will win. In this way, although it is necessary to play it safe a majority of the time, can you always win by playing it by the book? If you suddenly find that you're behind because your opponent didn't play it safe and came out on top, you're inevitably going to have to do something also high-risk, high reward yourself, in order to pull closer to him. That's why I think it's somewhat closed-minded for people to dismiss something as pointless simply because it's not the "safest" option.

Sorry about the mispelling 3xS, and for the record, I'm not looking for recognition for telling someone he's a jerk. I don't do things because I want to "get a medal" for them - I do it because someone needed to put that guy in his place. If I did want any recognition, I would be the one going around playing mod and upping my post count just so my title says "Smash ________" instead of "Smash Child."

 

[3xSwords]

I'm not mad at all Junk, I just figured that somebody needed to say it, given his post had no purpose whatsoever other than to insult the OP and up his own post count. You are right about the thread though, given the relatively poor quality and explanation of the first post.

@K 2, just read through the original posts, if you're talking safety and want a low-risk, low-reward option, then yes, something like fair, counter, air dodge, would be the "safest" option. However, the OP's point was that to mix things up, you could try to dair as well. Like I stated earlier, dair's range and priority is not poor, and against someone approaching from below, is a viable option. This is an option if you are looking for higher-risk, high-reward, i.e., if you're at a very high percentage and your opponent is a medium percent, you just might turn the tables if you pull it off. It's not anything to use often at all, but can be pulled off under the right circumstances.

3x3, I guess you're right about the stage positioning part, but realistically, sometimes even a smart opponent will attempt a higher-risk option and chase you, even though it might be the safest option to stay where he is and maintain control of the stage. All I'm saying is that it's not as stupid as it might seem at first, that's it.

Ok at least get the abbreviation right it's 3xS.

Btw your not going to get a medal for standing up to "internetz bully" but it's nice to know that you have that sense of honor. That also means you probably don't belong here XD.

 

[Darxmarth23]

This entire thread had really no purpose considering everyone know that this.

You standing up against me isn't going to prove anything.

And for the "Don't knock it till ya try it" thing, i have tried a d-air before. In both way's the op had explained. I think we all knew you could do that and that it isn't too usefull.

There isn't much usefull to contribute except "Don't do that" which has also beenpretty much bought up.

consider it knocked.

lulz

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

lol, then you guys wonder why the Marth boards have such a bad rep.......

 

[Punishment Divine]

Hay GuYs!

Ded U Know TAt If YUo put 1 foot In fRunt Ov De oTher aNd RetpeaT Za moTion , den You kan Wak In a straiGht lin?????

Ded You Know tat GUYS?

Edit: when im sarcastic i write in hot pink.

hey, you got that from...someone!

 

[mdmfromdaridge]

3xSwords probably has a small *****.

 

[Darxmarth23]

hey, you got that from...someone!

lulz

oh yeah. sorry about that. i had to think of something fast and i had to go real bad. then i remembered what you said.

wait...was it you?

 

[Remzi]

lol, then you guys wonder why the Marth boards have such a bad rep.......

Bad rep? Since when? We're pretty respected....

Anyways, the idea presented in this topic makes no sense, because nobody's gonna jump below you to edge guard, your opponent wont come within your dair hitbox unless they do something TERRIBLY wrong. They will stay to the side of you, you will whiff a dair, and you will eat an aerial and likely die.

 

[VietGeek]

3xSwords probably has a small *****.

I bet mine is smaller. Cuz you know, I'm Asian and whatnot. xD

Bad rep? Since when? We're pretty respected....

He means this board is considered elitist to the point where some of it is just plain idiocy. At least it seems that way from the view of others.

Just saying it as it is.

 

[Remzi]

Yes, we are overly elitist, but most people see us as possibly the most knowledgeable and fastest moving board.

 

[3xSwords]

3xSwords probably has a small *****.

lol wut? I bet yours is a **** load smaller....

anyway... random much? Seriously where did this come from?

 

[Zeallyx]

*makes weird motion with hands*
you guys: what are you doing?
me: I'm cutting the tension



/unfunnyjoke

 

[∫unk]

wow swf sensor fail

 

[Hype]

lol^

10fails

 

[Remzi]

LMAO, sensor ****.

EDIT: fixd

 

[feardragon64]

wow swf sensor fail

Good thing I have a big monitor.
(figured out the url pen1s)

 

[magikguy]

the rabbit just pawned you guys

 

[Darxmarth23]

Just because we are the marth boards, we have the biggest pen1ses.

Lulx think how small the other boards are.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

3xSwords probably has a small *****.

Go away.

kthnx.