Super Smash Bros. Sterilized aka "The End of Smash" "Wii Sports: SSB" "SSB goes Pop"

[Xengri]

My head is cool, I have no fever

I enjoy the smash competitive scene, but at the same time not stressing out over Brawl's depth.

I disagree with you automatically judging that "Brawl's tourney scene will not surpass that of melee."

We barely know anything about the game so stop assuming Sakurai forgot his dream or w/e the hell you call it

My post before this one still stands

This is starting to look like a classic case of my opinion= fact

And your last paragraph is freaking me out... are you ok?

Why did you edit your post to add those last two lines of a poem which you already posted?

 

[Gilgamesh]

I know this is contradictory but **** this is going too far because both sides are acting like arrogant ***** with out actually understanding the other side. Man both of yall suck.

You're right, it did sound very, very contradictory.

 

[LavisFiend]

Somebody call the whambulance!

 

[Cojiro]

I think it's obvious that a bunch of people playing a demo with unfamiliar controllers will give a clear and complete indication of the game's depth.

I don't even know why they made this game, they have made far too many changes.

Seriously, hook me up buddy, I need the good stuff to get as high as you.

 

[NES n00b]

You're right, it did sound very, very contradictory.

Because it was.

Edit: I did say that both sides seem to not know where the other is coming from especially the casual side. that is my opinion but whatever. That was the main point. Not me *****ing. lol

 

[Zant3tsuken]

The Brawl scene being bigger than the Melee scene just might happen due to other factors. Hopefully online play has a way to match you up with people of good ping (ie local) bringing more people in. Whether organised competitions get more commercial backing could also affect this... and it's much more likely to happen with Brawl being a new game, and the commercial success of the wii.

I think a lot of people are looking at Brawl, seeing the learning curve and (apparent) lack of tech. A technical game isn't the same as a deep game folks. Til this day a simple game such as Street Fighter 2 is still being played competitively for that very reason.

 

[Sariku]

I just saw NESN00B and felt like it was my duty to post.

If you guys are complaining about Brawl's Depth... stop.

Brawl will be a different game. It will do things better than Melee. Melee will surpass it in others. Who cares if Melee has a bigger Tourney Scene? Yeah, I hope Brawl has a nice sized one too, but complaining won't change anything.

Besides, from the best Brawl Update Ever, given by Gimpyfish...

THIS GAME IS FREAKIN' FUN!

Isn't that enough?

 

[Cojiro]

Isn't that enough?

Apparently not, it has to have infinite competitive depth.

 

[Red Exodus]

If Sakurai gives us free Wiis and Brawl we'll all shut up. Until then casual vs competitive war continues.

 

[kinghippo99]

Auto edge grabbing
Walking off edge and push back to grab...wow intense.
Auto lag cancel
Everyone floating like Jigglypuff
Wiimote
The general appearance of the characters and stages
The music, specifically the Snake track lifted directly from that pirate movie
Awkward subspace Emissary vids
The abomination that is Sonic
The pimping of Snake

These are just some of the things that set off red flags for me. Everything about this game reeks with the stench of a Star Wars prequel. The music is phony, the marketing of this game is phony, the nintendo reps and their cheerleaders are phony. CO-OP mode in SE looks extremely awkward with the other player being left off the screen constantly, the pathetic minions just begging to get killed. It's over. A critical and financial success, a casual phenomenon, but a competitive failure. That's how this game will be described two years from now. Promise.

Proceed to flame.

you'll be drooling over it when it comes out... if u don't ur not part of this community

 

[Michael Blaine]

That was pretty funny. Maybe I will, maybe. I do enjoy Wii sports sometimes. I expected more from Brawl, but I understand the lure of money is too much to give up. Many criticize the supposed sellout, but they would have done the same thing themselves. Unfortunately, those who remember the best of times can only enjoy halfheartedly the shiny but mediocre product in front of them. don't let the hype wind you up too much. not all that is gold may glitter, not all those who wander are lost...

 

[Xengri]

Over dramatizes yes?

You're acting like Melee magically disappears come February 10th. Nothing is stopping you from playing Melee once brawl is out. If you thing Melee>Brawl then... play Melee.

Another +1 off of another worthless repeated topic for me.

 

[_X_]

Auto edge grabbing
Walking off edge and push back to grab...wow intense.
Auto lag cancel
Everyone floating like Jigglypuff
Wiimote
The general appearance of the characters and stages
The music, specifically the Snake track lifted directly from that pirate movie
Awkward subspace Emissary vids
The abomination that is Sonic
The pimping of Snake

These are just some of the things that set off red flags for me. Everything about this game reeks with the stench of a Star Wars prequel. The music is phony, the marketing of this game is phony, the nintendo reps and their cheerleaders are phony. CO-OP mode in SE looks extremely awkward with the other player being left off the screen constantly, the pathetic minions just begging to get killed. It's over. A critical and financial success, a casual phenomenon, but a competitive failure. That's how this game will be described two years from now. Promise.

Proceed to flame.

One question: Are you going to buy the game?

 

[Mama]

Obviously he has the game. Look how he knows everything there is to know about the game already. Seriously though. Someone get this failure locked. And don't feed the troll anymore than this last post.

 

[Mr. Ocax]

It's the eye of the Smasher
it's the thrill of the fight
Rising up to the challenge of our rivals
and the five stock survivor taunts his prey in the night
and hes watching us all with the eye...OF THE SMASHER.

Someone shoot this guy... PLEASE!

 

[Maben]

Brawl will be an excellent game. I don't care if every post from now until 2/10/08 talks about how much it sucks, i'll still buy it. And to agree with earlier posters, Melee will still be around and will still be the great game it is today. I LOVE SSBM, i love playing it with my friends, local tournies, whatever. I still pick up SSB 64 all the time and we play it just for a change of pace I guess. You know why? Cause it's still a good game.

 

[heety9]

Go die.

Now.

 

[Zink]

Ugh. Is there no end to the whining?

 

[Silfa]

I was just playing SSB 64. Awesome game.

Melee being there will never stop that, as Brawl will never stop Melee from being great. Just play what you like.

 

[baheffron]

Although I do have some of these fears, I am a little more optimistic about Brawl . I don't know if it will be as good a tournament game as SSBM was, but it can't be all that bad... I'll reserve my judgment until I have played the finished product.

 

[yoshi_fan]

2nd place for this pic!

 

[Rash]

I expected more from Brawl, but I understand the lure of money is too much to give up.

What are you talking about?

This game is already exceeding a lot of expectations. Production value is through the roof. What more are you asking for? And what would make this less about "the lure of money"? Seriously, I can't fathom what you've actually expected from this game.

 

[WeXzuZ]

To thread creator:
You must be AWESOME! I mean, you can see how a game will be even when its not even OUT!
I bet a guy like you is a MUST at IGN and Gamespot etc. Just imagine it:
Preview of Kirby Wii:
"Dont even bother looking for it, its not worth it, our master journalist and futureseer
Michael Blaine just said so"

I'm sooo saving that one!

 

[Volrec]

CRY SOME MOREr

 

[Darqion]

What are you talking about?

This game is already exceeding a lot of expectations. Production value is through the roof. What more are you asking for? And what would make this less about "the lure of money"? Seriously, I can't fathom what you've actually expected from this game.

Hes talking about how companys tailor their endproduct to the biggest consumor. in this case, the casual player, as with 99% of all the other games out there. If it wasnt for the casuel player, showing interest in the first smash, melee would never have been made, so really... the casual is not only more important for their current income, but also for their future sales

He believes a game made for "normal" people, for casual play cant have fun stuff, tho melee was already just that. The so called "advanced" stuff however seemed to be not what they wanted the game to be, and since they dont NEED to care about that 1% competitive crowd out here, they changed stuff around

The fact stays that EVERY game i have ever played, will have a few things the programers "missed" , and these things will be used by the pros to win. Timing importants, strategy and overal reflexes will still win you the match, nothing chaged there. im sorry you need to wavedash because you are somehow incappable of tapping movement stick around a bit. MEH

 

[Adi]

The thing is the inclusion of wavedashing would have had no detrimental effect on the casual players. The removal of wavedashing is the equivalent of removing depth, so it makes it harder for Brawl to turn out as a competitive game. It's future lies in accident now, and the hope that we, as the players, find more glitches and exploits to furthur the competitive aspect of Smash.

 

[flyinfilipino]

@ The thread starter, who seems to already know everything about Brawl: Why are you overdramatizing and making all of these assumptions based on a few videos of a demo of a game that is still in development and not coming out for another three months?

And also, @ NintendoWarrior, who seems to have a personal vendetta against Sakurai for delaying the game: Sorry, but when it was announced that the launch date was to be Dec. 3rd, they said that it was going to be a goal they wanted to reach, and that they were working hard to try and meet it. No guarantee. So yeah, too bad it was delayed, but it's only to make the game even better than it might've been. Nothin you can do about it, really.

 

[Makkers]

I wonder if people complained this much when something like Tekken 3 was different than Tekken 2.

Want a good example of a fighting game that barely had advanced techs compared to today's fighting games yet still gets serious play? Street Fighter II. Know why? Because the developers balanced the game around the characters, not ATs. Another example of a game that's balanced and still gets play despite the dated gameplay engine lacking anything "advanced" is Starcraft. Starcraft may not be as complicated as a whole as Company of Heroes but each race offered so much variety, it doesn't need it.

What's my point? If Brawl can somehow get most of it's characters not only balanced but unique enough while keeping a few advanced techniques here and there, the game will not only be competitive but it'll have legs. Brawl, at the moment, seems to have just about enough techniques outside of character techs to satisfy the competitive crowd with more begging to be discovered. Hell, Trip Canceling (No, I'm not going to call it 'Ink Drop' ) seems to be an interesting juking mechanic that will surely play a huge role in battle as well as the rumored aerial cancel/fake as seen in one of the videos showing Sonic.

So what if Brawl is not as fast as Melee? That works to the franchise's advantage since it's always mixing it up with every entry. Just accept that Brawl may favor the calculating and defensive over the constantly aggressive and speedy. Personally I don't mind that change since I'm a big Virtua Fighter fan anyways.

 

[Gilgamesh]

The removal of wavedashing is the equivalent of removing depth.

Ok, this is Mega Hyperbole. Like the game won't have depth from other sources. Please check Mama's thread about this subject.

 

[Adi]

Note that I didn't say that it implied a lack of depth, but it is from any angle, indeed the removal of depth. There is no possible way you can argue that the inclusion of wavedashing brings nothing to the field. Therefore it's removal eliminates any depth it could have brought to the field.

 

[Xanderous]

I was going to agree with the guy, but he's just so ****ing stupid.

 

[DSB]

Imagine if in SSB64 all attacks coudl be L-cancelled. Then, in Melee, they removed this feature, making only aerials L-cancellable, and then only half lag at that (like they are)? Would you be complaining then? Yeah. But Melee was still a great and deep game.

Hmm I never thought about b moves being cancelable...

 

[Terrorcon Blot]

Note that I didn't say that it implied a lack of depth, but it is from any angle, indeed the removal of depth. There is no possible way you can argue that the inclusion of wavedashing brings nothing to the field. Therefore it's removal eliminates any depth it could have brought to the field.

It replaces RUNNING. I'm sure that's totally what the programmers wanted. Having characters hopping around like spastic nitwits as the only noise they make is their air dodge grunt. I'm not even going to make the clack-clack-clack joke.

Things change, you get over it. Ever play Guilty Gear? Sol had a near infinite combo that was devastating.

Come the next game, they took this combo away. You know what happened?

People found newer, cooler combos to work with! Discovering new things and learning, in a video game, isn't it crazy!

 

[Makkers]

Note that I didn't say that it implied a lack of depth, but it is from any angle, indeed the removal of depth. There is no possible way you can argue that the inclusion of wavedashing brings nothing to the field. Therefore it's removal eliminates any depth it could have brought to the field.

Yet you can't come to that conclusion of the elimination of depth due to the fact that advanced techniques such as wavedashing was never in Brawl, perhaps compromising the direction Sakurai wanted Brawl to go. To say that removing WDing is eliminating depth is like saying excluding MvC assists from Street Fighter III is removing depth. To come to that conclusion would require wavedashing to actually be a major part of Brawl's original game design only for it to be removed.

Just accept that Brawl is it's own game. Whether or not it's an evolution of Melee is besides the point.

 

[Adi]

It may or may not be a greater game with the removal of wavedashing. Regardless of which way it turns out the possibilities that would have been brought with it. The removal of broken tactics, such as Sol's infinite combo, is a different scenario as the combo in itself was detrimental to the game's development. Wavedashing merely added more to the field and enhanced the gameplay. The removal of it is counterproductive and does not serve a particular purpose.

 

[~N9NE~]

The original poster is spot on. Brawl has no advanced techniques or depth of any kind at all. In fact, Pong has greater depth then Brawl.

 

[Makkers]

It may or may not be a greater game with the removal of wavedashing. Regardless of which way it turns out the possibilities that would have been brought with it. The removal of broken tactics, such as Sol's infinite combo, is a different scenario as the combo in itself was detrimental to the game's development. Wavedashing merely added more to the field and enhanced the gameplay. The removal of it is counterproductive and does not serve a particular purpose.

Street Fighter III could have been a combo intensive game when you think about the Capcom vs X games out during that era. However, removing that aspect and going for a more reactive experience rather than a "I'm going to literally throw everything at you for 5000 hit combos" changed the way players approached that game. Would you consider that move a removal of depth? Of course not because the developers want to take the game in a different direction. Same thing applies with Brawl. Changing the air dodge mechanic, changing the character weights and adding to the aerial game points to a different direction. See any similarities?

Plus may I point to the fact that wavedashing, no matter how you slice it, is a physics glitch? It was never intended, no matter how much it added to Melee. I'd rather Sakurai add in intended advanced techniques and rely on them than lament over unintended advanced techniques.

Personally, I'm more concerned over L-canceling (An intended AT) making the cut than wavedashing.

 

[Titan05]

Amazing how, no matter the effort, these threads still have some discussion in them despite an identical thread dying a day beforehand.

 

[ToXn]

This whole thread is such fail.

Including this post.

 

[Michael Blaine]

Most of you are way too optimistic regarding this game. It's a little cultish, actually. There is little to feel comfortable about, based on the demo.

"Oh, but there will be depth!! Remember, Master Sakurai is at the helm!"
"Time!! Just wait and you will be convinced!!"

Perhaps, but it's still nothing more than fanboy-speak. As of now it doesn't look that way. It might be better if some of you took a more balanced approach to what Nintendo feeds you from now on, somewhere between me and frothing aficionado.

The hype is setting all of you up for BIG disappointment.