Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Baskerville]

Why exactly was Doc chosen anyway? I'm curious to know.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Why exactly was Doc chosen anyway? I'm curious to know.

Sakurai liked the Dr. Mario theme... I'm not joking.

 

[TheTuninator]

Wasn't he just one of the people they shoved in as an easy way to pad the roster? Or is that just an unsubstantiated rumor?

 

[Moon Monkey]

Sakurai liked the Dr. Mario theme... I'm not joking.

I remember reading that a fan requested Dr. Mario as a alternate costume, and Sakurai said something along the lines of "That wouldn't work, Dr. Mario doesn't shoot fire balls." and he decided to make Doc his own full-on character.

 

[FalKoopa]

Or is that just an unsubstantiated rumor?

Sakurai says that on the Melee dojo.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Well I liked the theme too. Dr.Mario was my most first Mario-game ever.

 

[kackamee]

Does anyone else think it would be a really cool idea to make Sakurai a gift and send it to him sometime? I think at the next national or something we should get together and figure out something to do for him o:

 

[Fatmanonice]

While on the topic of Melee, here's some little known facts about Melee's development:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=36534

 

[N3ON]

Yeah Doc got in due to Sakurai looking for clones and thinking Wario (who was apparently considered before Doc) deserved more than being a clone (I guess Ganondorf didn't ), with the Dr. Mario theme likely pulling Doc ahead of other versions of Mario.

Does anyone else think it would be a really cool idea to make Sakurai a gift and send it to him sometime? I think at the next national or something we should get together and figure out something to do for him o:

He certainly deserves one after all the worrying and stress we put him through.

 

[Z1GMA]

Great, thanks to Kuma and Z1GMA, I want to see King in Smash Bros.

Thanks for making me hyped for something that won't happen, guys.... -_-

If only...

King is so cool, I don't mind that he beat Haggar in the SFXT promotions.

Great pic. King's frame is perfect.

Well, IF Namco Bandai decided to throw in a character of their own (which they won't), they better throw in King.
He'd make minced meat out of Little Mac on that Ring Stage.

We have to make everyone at Smashboards put King as their avatar and signature, and hope the developers sees it, har har.
Starting tomorrow.
I'm off to bed now.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I know you have it, but try not to let it get to you. Now be a good boy and hold my heels while I go make more sense than you.

Sakurai liked the Dr. Mario theme... I'm not joking.

To be fair, it sounded excellent in Melee.

 

[N3ON]

While on the topic of Melee, here's some little known facts about Melee's development:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=36534

I think the only points that aren't already in the Directory Thread are:

• It was decided early on to separate the newcomers into two even groups for balance reasons: fan favorites (as determined by a survey) and unique, unexpected characters.
• Bowser, Peach, Mewtwo, and Marth were culled from the fan survey.
• Zelda, Sheik, Ice Climbers, and Mr. Game & Watch made up the other group.
• Ganondorf was the last character added to the game

Still, that's very interesting to know. Might affect the ratio of popular to unexpected characters this time, though I think it will lean towards the popular side moreso than the unexpected side.

EDIT: Though the guy claims to know the results of the Brawl poll past Sonic and Mega Man, so... I'd take what he doesn't have a source on with a grain of salt.

 

[Big-Cat]

Great pic. King's frame is perfect.

Well, IF Namco Bandai decided to throw in a character of their own (which they won't), they better throw in King.
He'd make minced meat out of Little Mac on that Ring Stage.

We have to make everyone at Smashboards put King as their avatar and signature, and hope the developers sees it, har har.
Starting tomorrow.
I'm off to bed now.

They should throw in Nina Williams.

Oh wait, Zero Suit Samus is probably in.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Does anyone else think it would be a really cool idea to make Sakurai a gift and send it to him sometime? I think at the next national or something we should get together and figure out something to do for him o:

I don't see what we could possibly give him besides like a drawing by the two or three people that actually know how to do so.

 

[JavaCroc]

While on the topic of Melee, here's some little known facts about Melee's development:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=36534

Interesting information. Thanks for posting. I had read most of it before from other sources, but there were some new tidbits like Ganondorf being the last character added to Melee and Dedede being the other possibility Sakurai considered in the 1-6 scenario (that is, 1 unique character vs. 6 clone characters). Wario did deserve better, although I am not a big fan of his heavy WarioWare influence in Brawl.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

What? Where was it EVER said that space was an issue? You're literally just assuming things.... both 3DS cartridges and Wii U disks can hold more then the Brawl DVD, after all.

The only reasons that have ever been stated for "cuts" is balancing the game, technical limitations of the 3DS (duel characters), and lack of time.

Uh, no. That's part of the reason.

They can't fit nearly as much on the 3DS because it's smaller. That's why we're having a reduced roster. Because again, the 3DS can't have as much as he wants. He did actually say that the roster is small because the 3DS can't handle as much as the Wii U. I'm not assuming things, I'm going by what he actually said.

 

[Croph]

Hmmz. We could always give Sakurai a virtual hug.

poor guy probably needs one irl. :<

I'm sorry for the questions (I used to have the info on me) but...

When exactly was SSB4's roster finalized?

Is it possible to have late additions after the finalization date (let's assume that the late addition will not affect anyone)? When I say late additions, I mean deciding to add someone in now (let's say due to recent popularity). If so, is it more likely to see that character become a semi-clone (perhaps due to time restrains/resouces)?

 

[---]

I think the only points that aren't already in the Directory Thread are:

Nice try, but this time I do have them all.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Uh, no. That's part of the reason.

They can't fit nearly as much on the 3DS because it's smaller. That's why we're having a reduced roster. Because again, the 3DS can't have as much as he wants. He did actually say that the roster is small because the 3DS can't handle as much as the Wii U. I'm not assuming things, I'm going by what he actually said.

From my understanding, 3DS games are capped at 2GB right now, but can actually go up to 8 GB, which is larger then the Brawl disk. Remember, Brawl was the first game to use a Duel Layer disk so it would make sense that Smash would be the first game to up the 3DS disk space.

These are Sakurai's quotes about the 3DS:

"The reality of the situation unfortunately is that there are certain limitations on the 3DS," and "So we're forced into the situation where we may need to reduce some characters to a certain degree. but we're really working hard in order to include as many characters as possible."

That does not mention ANYTHING about space, so unless you show me another quote you ARE assuming. I'm not saying you're wrong, and it would make sense that space would be an issue, but until something is said it is jsut an assumption.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

"The reality of the situation unfortunately is that there are certain limitations on the 3DS," and "So we're forced into the situation where we may need to reduce some characters to a certain degree. but we're really working hard in order to include as many characters as possible."

That does not mention ANYTHING about space, so unless you show me another quote you ARE assuming.

That's exactly what it means. That there's less space on the 3DS to use than the Wii U so the roster won't be as big as it many players want.

It also means someone like Pokemon Trainer is less likely to make it before someone like Lucario because PT takes up more overall space. He's more likely to be reduced in some way. He could be removed, or reduced to a single Pokemon. I.E. Rocket Grunt with Meowth.(I would like this)

 

[Jaedrik]

I'm pushing it, I know it, but it's driving me crazy, new ideas are popping into my head constantly, new arguments are being manufactured and shut down on both sides, but there is one character that wins every argument I have in my head.
Please, folks, do seriously consider, even if you have no interest in Fire Emblem, there is levelheaded and clear discussion to be found, it's not that bad and not so virulent, there's no real reason to continue on like this.
Please consider educating yourselves about Anna, she fills all of Sakurai's criteria better than any other choice. So many things that have been said in article after article shine ever a more favorable light on her.
Serenes Forest, Fire Emblem wiki, heck, even play Awakening and check her out there.
And of course, please do participate in our local Fire Emblem discussions, yes there can be a lot of HHNNNNNNGGGGHHHHH sometimes, but there will always be a bastion of reason.

 

[kackamee]

That's exactly what it means. That there's less space on the 3DS to use than the Wii U so the roster won't be as big as it many players want.

It also means someone like Pokemon Trainer is less likely to make it before someone like Lucario because PT takes up more overall space. He's more likely to be reduced in some way. He could be removed, or reduced to a single Pokemon. I.E. Rocket Grunt with Meowth.(I would like this)

Characters don't take up much space at all. Space is one of the least likely reasons a character won't get in.

 

[Curious Villager]

I'm pushing it, I know it, but it's driving me crazy, new ideas are popping into my head constantly, new arguments are being manufactured and shut down on both sides, but there is one character that wins every argument I have in my head.
Please, folks, do seriously consider, even if you have no interest in Fire Emblem, there is levelheaded and clear discussion to be found, it's not that bad and not so virulent, there's no real reason to continue on like this.
Please consider educating yourselves about Anna, she fills all of Sakurai's criteria better than any other choice. So many things that have been said in article after article shine ever a more favorable light on her.
Serenes Forest, Fire Emblem wiki, heck, even play Awakening and check her out there.
And of course, please do participate in our local Fire Emblem discussions, yes there can be a lot of HHNNNNNNGGGGHHHHH sometimes, but there will always be a bastion of reason.

Anna would be the best Fire Emblem rep in my opinion but I can't see her making it in unless she has more games where her roles are at least as big as Fire Emblem Awakening. At least I want her playable in more Fire Emblem games first.

I would love love love to see Anna in smash though.

 

[Banjodorf]

It also means someone like Pokemon Trainer is less likely to make it before someone like Lucario because PT takes up more overall space. He's more likely to be reduced in some way. He could be removed, or reduced to a single Pokemon. I.E. Rocket Grunt with Meowth.(I would like this)

Y'know, honestly, I could dig that. I'm gonna assume he'd just have Charizard, because he fits all of Sakurai's Pokemon criteria, and is pretty badass. (He also had a recent reappearance in the anime, etc.) Sweeeet.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Characters don't take up much space at all. Space is one of the least likely reasons a character won't get in.

And yet, that's the only reason for reduction of the roster. Because they overall take up too much space with too many. The 3DS is smaller. This means some characters might not make it in.

There's no other reason to take out someone like PT. He takes up more overall space than others. In fact, he's four characters in one(albeit, it's only Trainer that takes up little space. The rest take up far more)

@Banjodorf: To be honest, while Charizard is nice and all, people will complain if the other two aren'tin. But if we have only Meowth, at least they were all either kept, or all left. It's kind of hard to explain, but I guess it's better to annoy all of PT's fans than reduce it to a Broken Base of in-fighting.

 

[ToiseOfChoice]

"We decided early on that characters were less important than songs and movie clips."

At least three 3DS games use the 4GB cart, and 4GB is more than enough for whatever Sakurai wants to add, let alone 8GB.

 

[kackamee]

And yet, that's the only reason for reduction of the roster. Because they overall take up too much space with too many. The 3DS is smaller. This means some characters might not make it in.

There's no other reason to take out someone like PT. He takes up more overall space than others. In fact, he's four characters in one(albeit, it's only Trainer that takes up little space. The rest take up far more)

@Banjodorf: To be honest, while Charizard is nice and all, people will complain if the other two aren'tin. But if we have only Meowth, at least they were all either kept, or all left. It's kind of hard to explain, but I guess it's better to annoy all of PT's fans than reduce it to a Broken Base of in-fighting.

I dunno, maybe you know more about it then I do, but from the discussion in this thread about this topic, it seemed pretty clear that space was not an issue in the slightest. The only issue would be the 3DS' processing power when it came to characters like Ice Climbers and Olimar.

 

[Spazzy_D]

And yet, that's the only reason for reduction of the roster. Because they overall take up too much space with too many. The 3DS is smaller. This means some characters might not make it in.

There's no other reason to take out someone like PT. He takes up more overall space than others. In fact, he's four characters in one(albeit, it's only Trainer that takes up little space. The rest take up far more)

@Banjodorf: To be honest, while Charizard is nice and all, people will complain if the other two aren'tin. But if we have only Meowth, at least they were all either kept, or all left. It's kind of hard to explain, but I guess it's better to annoy all of PT's fans than reduce it to a Broken Base of in-fighting.

You're assuming that what he meant by 3DS limitations was space, when in the same interview he said he was having trouble with the Ice Climbers.... so he wasn't (explicitly) talking about space.

 

[Spazzy_D]

"We decided early on that characters were less important than songs and movie clips."

At least three 3DS games use the 4GB cart, and 4GB is more than enough for whatever Sakurai wants to add, let alone 8GB.

Wasn't the size of the brawl roster only 2 GB?

 

[kackamee]

Wasn't the size of the brawl roster only 2 GB?

Subspace Emissary took up the most space overall with the cutscenes and all.

 

[Big-Cat]

Uh, no. That's part of the reason..

They can't fit nearly as much on the 3DS because it's smaller. That's why we're having a reduced roster. Because again, the 3DS can't have as much as he wants. He did actually say that the roster is small because the 3DS can't handle as much as the Wii U. I'm not assuming things, I'm going by what he actually said.

Storage issues are least of his concerns. The Brawl roster took up 2GB, something that is greatly reduced when you make everything at a lower resolution. Even then, Tekken 3D has all 41 characters of Tekken 6's roster. Tekken's characters have always had way more moves than Smash characters have ever had. Then there's the fact that they included a full movie with the game. Movies take up way more data than characters. The cartridge was probably no more than 4 GBs when all was said and done.

The bigger issues at hand are AI processing and having enough RAM for the transformation characters. This would likely mean that transformation characters may be separated (also bringing up the possibility of Sheik > Impa) and that Ice Climbers and Olimar may be completely revamped (though ICs need it).

 

[Jaedrik]

http://www.joystiq.com/2013/06/19/xbox-one-80-microsoft-reverses-xbox-one-drm-features/

Oh. Well.

Looks like Microsoft is rescinding those controversial things.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yes, I find space to be the issue.

It could also be processing power too. It can be both.

And as noted before, they have to load extra characters for guys like PT, and that's not easy. Which means that less transformations is probably something he's looking at.

 

[Deleted member]

Around 0:25 in this video.

Also, has anyone noticed that this timed match lasts 1:30 instead of an exact quantity of minutes (like 1:00 or 2:00)? Maybe we will be able to set the time in 30 s increments or maybe even 10 s increments?

That would be cool to see.

Oh and great video as well, really liked that one.

In other news the Chrom fanboys are in full defense mode on gamefaqs.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/66506659

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-for-wii-u/66506789

The thing I dislike about many Chrom supporter on GameFAQs is how much they rely on his likelihood for support. I've noticed how many of these people associate their support with Chrom for being likely and on that topic, quite a few people said "deal with it, Chrom's in".

Fire Emblem is the one franchise we shouldn't be going around calling characters shoe-ins. Ike, Roy and Chrom have their positive and negatives, but they are not guarantee by any means.

At least Roy supporters don't go around declaring their character as a shoe-in and are more realistic.

Given all of his talk so far, I am pretty certain that we'll see at least one or two cuts. Most likely the expected ones like Lucario, but I doubt that he'd be going on about how stressful cuts are and how carefully they are made if we weren't losing at least one fighter.

That said, I sincerely doubt that we will see the kind of mass cuts that are being hysterically predicted so frequently around here.

I don't think Lucario will be going anywhere unless we see four or five cuts. Unlike Toon Link, he's very unique and he's not third-party as well. I'd say that Snake, Sonic and Toon Link will all face the axe before Lucario and I really doubt we will see more than three cuts.

More articles
Not enough time to bring back every Smash Bros character

How Pokemon characters are chosen

The first article doesn't really change anything, just the same thing we already knew. Cuts will probably happen, but with Sakurai stressing how much he despise cuts, I'm thinking no more than three and still think Lucario and Ike will be safe even if three cuts occur (since they would likely go to Snake, Sonic and Toon Link).

Actually, the second article is making me even more confident in Lucario's return. Would say Mewtwo as well, but I consider him all but guarantee ever since his new form was revealed.

No offense, but what does Roy bring to the table that any other FE rep doesn't in order to justify his inclusion? Most of his popularity comes from Smash itself, not FE, where a lot of people don't like him, and he's still just a sword-wielding Lord at the end of the day. Ike doesn't need to justify his inclusion because he's already here, but pretty much all of the criteria that can be employed to shoot down Chrom also apply to Roy.

One thing Roy has is his Sword of Seals which gives him the possibility of up to several new moves should he returns. As for Fire Emblem, FE6 was received really well in Japan and according to this, was the 2nd best received title in the series (only FE5 scored better and FE6 was tied with FE7). Notably, FE13 was the third lowest received game. So there are people in Japan that do want Roy back because they enjoyed FE6.

Not just GameFAQs, but also here. I mean the Chrom support thread got like over 500+ more posts in the span of weeks, and that was the same thread that was dormant for months.

It was because ChronoBound noted just how inactive Chrom support was on Smashboards. I think the thread revived because of ChronoBound's comment.

Yeah, it would strike me quite odd if Awakening didn't get a rep seeing as how popular a game it is. It's definitely more deserving than just an assist trophy imo.

There's a lot of way to represent Awakening (and no doubt it deserves a lot of content). Music, items, a couple of Assist Trophies, etc. A playable character could happen, although I don't think it needs one (really, all we need for Fire Emblem is Marth).

Honestly that article only confirms what we were all already speculating. Am still betting on:

Pikachu
PT Red
Lucario
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo

Pretty much, I'm having a hard time seeing anyone from here not getting in.

Is anyone else perfectly okay if DK and Star Fox wind up with four reps in SSB4? I used to be vocally against this but as long as everyone was fun to play as, I personally don't care, and I would rather have both K. Rool and Dixie and Wolf and Krystal playable then just one and then have one of the fanbases complain about it nonstop for 6-8 years.

I would absolutely LOVE to see four playable DK character with King K. Rool and Dixie getting in. Should happen regardless of K. Rool's recent absence.

I'm fine with Krystal as well, although I'm hoping for an unique move set.

If we get a bunch more reps from new franchises at the same time, yes. DK can justify four reps at least somewhat well, but Star Fox having four reps is just a massive stretch. There's plenty of other series out there that deserve one rep more than DK and Star Fox need four.

I'd also rather not see Krystal and Dixie as they will attract a bit of an unsavory audience along with the the true fans, but that's more of a minor concern.

I think we'll get eight new series this time around (including the ones already confirmed and the rumor); Takamaru/Mach Rider and Shulk/Isaac/Saki/Starfy. Possibly nine or ten if we get lucky.

If we have eight newcomers from misc. series and no cuts, that would bring us to forty-seven characters. There's a good chacnce we'll hit the early fifties with this roster, but we could have fifty-one characters and still add Ridley, a Fire Emblem rep (Chrom or Roy) and two DK newcomers. So I don't see how that's over-representing if Pac-Man, Mii and Little Mac are all in the game.

As for Dixie, I wouldn't worry about it. Unlike Krystal, Dixie's fan base is not infested by the furry community and DK in general doesn't have much porn overall. People who support Dixie do so mainly because they like the character, not because of sexual attraction.

Mario could get another rep, but at that point it'd be more exciting to bring a new fresh franchise that not only allows for more distinct and unique characters but a wider array of content added. If we keep cutting off more meat from a franchise, eventually we're going to be left with the not-so-good parts, so I'd rather just bring in a new one, even if its smaller. There's much more potential this way.Basically I'm pitching Paper Mario here

Also, if Toon Link is gone, would Ghirahim be anymore acceptable in the eyes of some of you here? I realize TL's addition has no bearing on Ghirahim's one-shot status, but would he be more agreeable if he was the fourth and not the fifth, while we are on the topic of avoiding five representatives?

Ghirahim looks interesting and I'd rather have an unique Zelda character over a semi-clone who I don't care about in regards to staying or leaving, so if Toon Link were to leave, we get no child Link and Ghirahim comes in, then I'm good.

Ghirahim is this generation's Vaati as far as I'm concerned. I honestly can't see him getting in unless it's somehow revealed that he plays a major role in Zelda Wii U.

Considering that Ghirahim set the chain in motion for all things to come in Zelda, I think he could get in. It's doubtful, but I wouldn't be too surprise.

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/197055...t_have_time_to_bring_all_characters_back.html

Sakurai: Cuts are happening but there won't be a lot.

He's just saying not everyone is returning, which includes both Melee and Brawl.

That said, Brawl veteran cuts will probably happen anyway.

While on the topic of Melee, here's some little known facts about Melee's development:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=36534

That should be taken with a grain of salt. Cednym was banned for failing to provide information and banned people are not exactly the most reliable sources.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Subspace Emissary took up the most space overall with the cutscenes and all.

Wow, just looked it up, the movies in Brawl took up 3.36 GB... that's half your space right there.

 

[kackamee]

Wow, just looked it up, the movies in Brawl took up 3.36 GB... that's half your space right there.

Yeah, but it was quite worth it imo lol. On the topic of SSE, this was probably my favorite cutscene

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah, but it was quite worth it imo lol.

Eh, the cutscenes weren't. I'd rather have had more gameplay fixes than some eh cutscenes. Especially since they're the reason for the slow down in Brawl and such.(well, the processing power and the way transformations were handled didn't help either)

Most cutscenes aren't needed, and a lot could've been reduced to dialogue and such.

This is also the reason that Sakurai is reducing Story Mode in For. It'll be smaller as is, although we don't know how small. Hopefully he'll remove most cutscenes other than the bare minimum needed.

 

[Jasmine Dragon]

From my understanding, 3DS games are capped at 2GB right now, but can actually go up to 8 GB, which is larger then the Brawl disk. Remember, Brawl was the first game to use a Duel Layer disk so it would make sense that Smash would be the first game to up the 3DS disk space.

These are Sakurai's quotes about the 3DS:

"The reality of the situation unfortunately is that there are certain limitations on the 3DS," and "So we're forced into the situation where we may need to reduce some characters to a certain degree. but we're really working hard in order to include as many characters as possible."

That does not mention ANYTHING about space, so unless you show me another quote you ARE assuming. I'm not saying you're wrong, and it would make sense that space would be an issue, but until something is said it is jsut an assumption.

I don't know if this has been brought up before, but I think that the reductions he's speaking of are visual changes to all of the characters. If you compare bowser on the 3DS version vs. the WiiU you can see that his body is much more animated while standing (ie mouth movements) in the WiiU version and his body at neutral seems to be significantly less active.

 

[ChronoBound]

http://www.nowgamer.com/news/197055...t_have_time_to_bring_all_characters_back.html

Sakurai: Cuts are happening but there won't be a lot.

The way Sakurai worded it (every character who has appeared in the series at this point) makes me think that he may already have ruled out some characters flat out not coming back (probably Pichu, Dr. Mario, and Young Link). Brawl veterans that may get the axe with no intention of being included at all would probably be Snake, Sonic, and/or Toon Link (only if a newer version of child Link is planned).

 

[kackamee]

Eh, the cutscenes weren't. I'd rather have had more gameplay fixes than some eh cutscenes. Especially since they're the reason for the slow down in Brawl and such.(well, the processing power and the way transformations were handled didn't help either)

Most cutscenes aren't needed, and a lot could've been reduced to dialogue and such.

This is also the reason that Sakurai is reducing Story Mode in For. It'll be smaller as is, although we don't know how small. Hopefully he'll remove most cutscenes other than the bare minimum needed.

Whatttt? I thoroughly enjoyed the cutscenes more than anything. It was the coolest thing to see how characters paired up and fought together, or against each other. The story itself might not have been that great, but watching Marth and MK, Diddy and Fox, and all these other unlikely pairs come together was the incredibly cool to watch for me.