Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Deleted member]

Pretty sure it was user Nolar_Mass that did that. For some reason the majority of supporters in that thread are 110% sure that Chrom will be a very original and exciting character and that he cannot be a clone. You know, despite Chrom recycling aspects of Marth and Ike. I have no bloody idea what goes through their minds...

Chrom has just as good of a chance of being a semi-clone as Roy has. It's possible for both to be unique, but to say that Chrom will definitely be unique is silly considering the similarities he shares with Marth and Ike.

Noler_Mass is in control of the thread, but it wasn't him who revived the thread considering that the thread was already active beforehand. I remember ChronoBound making a comment in the Anna thread in that the Chrom thread was inactive (back in April while there was a large fight in the thread, you had a Vyse avatar at the time). Soon afterward, the thread was brought back to activity.

Onto the problem with the 3DS, I'm not sure how 30 FPS would solve things. Isn't Smash Bros. supposed to be a fast paced game? This would cause the game to play at a noticeably slower speed than 64 or Brawl.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Onto the problem with the 3DS, I'm not sure how 30 FPS would solve things. Isn't Smash Bros. supposed to be a fast paced game? This would cause the game to play at a noticeably slower speed than 64 or Brawl.

It's just generally better to have a consistent frame rate over a spastic frame rate. It would also help with the problems with stuff like Olimar and Ice Climbers, and the items.

 

[`dazrin]

Onto the problem with the 3DS, I'm not sure how 30 FPS would solve things. Isn't Smash Bros. supposed to be a fast paced game? This would cause the game to play at a noticeably slower speed than 64 or Brawl.

Super Mario 64 runs at 30FPS, but it's still, by definition, a fast-paced game. xD (I've been speedrunning that game lately. Don't mind my snide remarks )

On a more serious note, Kid Icarus: Uprising runs at 60fps and was able to perform great even with all the chaos on the screen at high speeds. I personally think that it's extremely unlikely that they would resort to capping the framerate at 30fps. They'll be able to get the game running at 60fps no problem as long as they take the proper steps to optimize everything and how it all works.

 

[Deleted member]

My issue with making Smash Bros. A 30 FPS mainly came from my experience with Sonic Unleashed for the Wii. It seemed as animation took longer to do and wasn't as smooth. Granted, I still enjoyed it, but I knew this was kind of off. Perhaps they could compromise and do 45 FPS? Would be much less noticeable.

Also, has Sakurai said anything in regards to whenever or not the 3D will be utilized on the 3DS?

 

[Diddy Kong]

Around 0:25 in this video.

Also, has anyone noticed that this timed match lasts 1:30 instead of an exact quantity of minutes (like 1:00 or 2:00)? Maybe we will be able to set the time in 30 s increments or maybe even 10 s increments?

Am late here, but what I mostly noticed out of this battle is that characters die at much earlier %s in this game than in Brawl. And possibly even Melee. I mean, Megaman's statistics are still unknown, but to me he seems like a middle-weight, and he died at 95% at the edge of Battle Field.

 

[FlareHabanero]

Also, has Sakurai said anything in regards to whenever or not the 3D will be utilized on the 3DS?

As far as I know, he never stated that the game won't use the 3D effects.

 

[Frostwraith]

As far as I know, he never stated that the game won't use the 3D effects.

Seeing as almost every 3DS game uses 3D, it would be a major letdown if Smash Bros. 3DS didn't use it.

 

[`dazrin]

My issue with making Smash Bros. A 30 FPS mainly came from my experience with Sonic Unleashed for the Wii. It seemed as animation took longer to do and wasn't as smooth. Granted, I still enjoyed it, but I knew this was kind of off. Perhaps they could compromise and do 45 FPS? Would be much less noticeable.

Also, has Sakurai said anything in regards to whenever or not the 3D will be utilized on the 3DS?

TBH, lowering framerate will help with how smooth the game runs in general, but it won't necessarily help with loading times if there's 4 iceclimbers to be loaded or 4 PTs or something on a gigantic stage.

Either way, they're going to need to change some major things. It's not going to be easy.

 

[Deleted member]

Seeing as almost every 3DS game uses 3D, it would be a major letdown if Smash Bros. 3DS didn't use it.

Would be nice if used properly, but considering that the motion in the Wii is barely used, I'm not sure if we'll see much out of the 3D.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I couldn't care less if the game used 3D or not, I don't use it in any of my games. Don't know how that'd be practical while playing in matches, in fact didn't a fighting game on the 3DS have the ability to use 3D during a match but it slowed down the frame rate by like half?

 

[PokéMurio]

every 3DS game has 3D effect, no exceptions

 

[Wario Bros.]

I know jack squat on how power works but playing the 3DS SSB clone Cartoon Network: Punch Time Explosion and seeing the footage of Smash 3D give me extremely little worry on the 3DS version when it come to power. PTE was made Papaya Studios, a company I never heard of them before that game and all their games have been mixed to very negative reception (especially the latter) yet they made a 3DS game that's only 450 MB big (yes, I'm aware that file size and processor are nowhere near related to each other) and completely blew me away on how well they understand and close to perfectly making a Super Smash Bros. clone (the game could be much better but it's still an amazing first attempt). If a super crappy developer can make something that good/close, then Nintendo (who knows the system more than anyone else) can do far better.

I'm pretty sure someone is going to correct the living heck out of me but I'm just saying how much faith I have in the 3DS Smash.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Well, its quite obvious that the graphics will be reduced on the 3DS, is what I'm trying to say. If you just take a look at the footage we've been shown thus far, it's very apparent that the 3DS version doesn't look as good as the Wii U version. It's not surprising that the models and textures are reduced by quite a bit.
It's a given, is what I'm trying to say. Graphics will obviously be worse on the 3DS compared to the Wii U in EVERY instance, guaranteed.

The problem here is the speed of the CPU. It's very simple to just cut down on the poly-count of a model or reduce the quality of a texture. Where it becomes a little more tricky is when you need to tackle things like long loading times, reduced frame-rate (which means lag!! the kind you find in Melee if you play 4 players on Fountain of Dreams, or when you perform the "Black-Hole Glitch") and even just the actual speed of the game itself. If you notice the gameplay footage we've been shown thus far, the 3DS footage is slow, floaty, and very brawl-like in general, where as if you look at the WiiU match with Sakurai as Megaman playing against Mario, the speed of the game runs at a pretty respectable pace. Obviously, it could be just that the development team hasn't bothered to tinker around with the physics engine on the 3DS yet, and focused more on porting a playable version of "brawl" onto the 3DS to work with, but it's something to think about.

Still, I have faith in the development team of Namco Bandai and Sakurai. It's going to be hard, but things are going to need to change, and perhaps some characters are going to need to be cut (I'm looking at you, PT). But if they want a playable handheld smash, you gotta do what you gotta do.

--but yeah. What kynxe said: Brawl runs bad because of the game, not the console. With Smash3DS, the processor speed is a hard limitation that walls them from doing certain things because it could result in lag and unsmooth gameplay. Some characters and other aspects of smash are going to have to change as a result of that.

Isn't the reason why Fountain of Dreams chugs the way it does with 4 players because of all other extra calculations the system must take into account for things like, reflections and water particle instancing on contact with the water platform in addition to the actions of all 4 of the players?

I understand the issue of having transformation characters, having to load 2 characters at once to be readily available on cue and AI controlled characters like Nana. I just thought that reducing reflections, glows and un-needed geometry will help with the systems overall performance.

 

[Frostwraith]

Would be nice if used properly, but considering that the motion in the Wii is barely used, I'm not sure if we'll see much out of the 3D.

You have a point, but I think it would be odd that such a major title wouldn't use the 3D feature.
I think the idea of having the Wii U for HD Smash and 3DS for Smash in 3D would be appealing to some people.

 

[Wario Bros.]

every 3DS game has 3D effect, no exceptions

Pokémon Dream Radar says hi.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Speaking of Fountain of Dreams, I want a HD remake of that stage. And I want it PRONTO!

 

[PokéMurio]

Pokémon Dream Radar says hi.

1st. Pokemon Dream Radar has 3D effect (menus etc.)
2nd. It isn't in fact 3DS game, it's 3DS exclusive software which allows you to get therian formed beasts and multiscale lugia + stuff

SSB3DS will have 3D effect, no panic people

 

[Curious Villager]

Well there is also Hydroventure Spin Cycle that also doesn't use the 3D effect at all. Unless you don't count eShop games for one or other reason...

 

[FlareHabanero]

Fluiditiy: Spin Cycle and Bomb Monkey also don't have a 3D effect, mainly because of you having to hold the 3DS in awkward angles. Not sure about other games, all the others I have do use the 3D effect.

 

[Moon Monkey]

Speaking of Fountain of Dreams, I want a HD remake of that stage. And I want it PRONTO!

I want HD remakes of Safron Cirty, Dreamland 64 and Hyrule Castle too!

 

[Wario Bros.]

1st. Pokemon Dream Radar has 3D effect (menus etc.)
2nd. It isn't in fact 3DS game, it's 3DS exclusive software which allows you to get therian formed beasts and multiscale lugia + stuff

1st: No....... it didn't. The 3D turns off and stays off when you play the game.
2nd: Call it what you like, but it was made for and runs on the 3DS and it has no 3D.

 

[Yonder]

Am late here, but what I mostly noticed out of this battle is that characters die at much earlier %s in this game than in Brawl. And possibly even Melee. I mean, Megaman's statistics are still unknown, but to me he seems like a middle-weight, and he died at 95% at the edge of Battle Field.

What I also noticed at the end of the video when Mega Man won was just his name with a still picture.

Does that mean at the end of matches, character will no longer have victory poses and the whole clapping thing for the losers?

 

[Curious Villager]

What I also noticed at the end of the video when Mega Man won was just his name with a still picture.

Does that mean at the end of matches, character will no longer have victory poses and the whole clapping thing for the losers?

Nah I think that's just something they did for the demo and don't want to show the victory screen yet. Either that or they aren't done yet with developing it...

 

[`dazrin]

Isn't the reason why Fountain of Dreams chugs the way it does with 4 player because of all other extra calculations the system must take into account for like, reflections and water particle instancing on contact with the water in addition to the actions of all 4 of the players?

I understand the issue of having transformation characters, having to load 2 characters at once to be readily available on cue and AI controlled characters like Nana. I just thought that reducing reflections, glows and un-needed geometry will help with the systems overall performance.

The reason why FoD lags with 4 players is because the reflection basically doubles all the models on the screen and tries to run them all at full speed. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I'm saying IC's may need to just be limited to a single ice climber or something to reduce the amount of moving and interacting models on the screen, or even the ones pre-loaded in the background waiting to be transformed into like Sheik/Zelda & PT.
With things like particles and shaders, cutting those things out will definitely help speed things up a bit, but the amount is not significant enough compared to the other things I mentioned.

But anyways, the lag on FoD that I referred to was just supposed to be used as an example of lag in a smash game that one may experience on the 3DS if the way some characters and other aspects don't change.

 

[Moon Monkey]

The reason why FoD lags with 4 players is because the reflection basically doubles all the models on the screen and tries to run them all at full speed. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about when I'm saying IC's may need to just be limited to a single ice climber or something to reduce the amount of moving and interacting models on the screen, or even the ones pre-loaded in the background waiting to be transformed into like Sheik/Zelda & PT.
With things like particles and shaders, cutting those things out will definitely help speed things up a bit, but the amount is not significant enough compared to the other things I mentioned.

But anyways, the lag on FoD that I referred to was just supposed to be used as an example of lag in a smash game that one may experience on the 3DS if the way some characters and other aspects don't change.

Oh okay, I'm more of a 3D modeler than a programmer, so lowering poly count and extra detail to be was the first line of action for me to suggest.

I wonder how they will go about handling characters like Olimar. Will they remove his whole Pikmin party gimmick and just make him simply pull out a Pikmin to attack from thin air? Who knows.

 

[Curious Villager]

Oh okay, I'm more of a 3D modeler than a programmer, so lowering poly count and extra detail to be was the first line of action for me to suggest.

I wonder how they will go about handling characters like Olimar. Will they remove his whole Pikmin party gimmick and just make him simply pull out a Pikmin to attack from thin air? Who knows.

That kinda reminds me a bit of Olimar Kirby... What if Olimar worked like that? He basically pull's out one Pikmin and then immediately throws it at his opponent. Much like Olimar Kirby does. And if there is any Pikmin related attacks then pretty much the same thing happens, Pikmin showing up from thin air and getting used for attack..

That would leave open for two new special moves as the Pikmin Pluck and down Special will become useless then, not sure what to replace them with though.... Is that a good way to bypass the 3DS limitation for Olimar at least? :/

 

[Diddy Kong]

I want HD remakes of Safron Cirty, Dreamland 64 and Hyrule Castle too!

Hyrule Castle and Saffron City : YES! Kongo Jungle from 64 would also be awesome. As would Brinstar and Sector Z. Actually... I want them to remake ALL of 64's and Melee's stages, and keep some cool ones from Brawl, like Castle Seige, Halberd, Delfino Plaza, anddd... Well, those where just about all the good stages from Brawl besides Final Destination, Battle Field and Smash Ville.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I want HD remakes of Safron Cirty, Dreamland 64 and Hyrule Castle too!

I would like for them to take a crack at the old stages too especially a lot of Melee's. In my opinion, A good chunk of them were horribly designed and had a ton of wasted potential. Two of the biggest ones that stick out in my mind are Fourside and Brinstar Depths.

 

[LiteralGrill]

That kinda reminds me a bit of Olimar Kirby... What if Olimar works like that? He basically pull's out one Pikmin and then immediately throws it at his opponent. Much like Olimar Kirby does. And if there is any Pikmin related attacks then pretty much the same thing happens, Pikmin showing up from thin air and getting used for attack..

That would leave open for two new special moves as the Pikmin Pluck and down Special will become useless then, not sure what to replace them with though.... Is that a good way to bypass the 3DS limitation for Olimar at least? :/

It's an intelligent way to do it, but probably not the best way in terms of his unique playstyle. People wouldn't like it as much I'd guess, and what WOULD you replace those moves with?

 

[Curious Villager]

It's an intelligent way to do it, but probably not the best way in terms of his unique playstyle. People wouldn't like it as much I'd guess, and what WOULD you replace those moves with?

Yeah that's the thing, I don't.... really know... As I've only played the first Pikmin and that was only for a little bit. So I don't know what other attack's he could have to replace those... ^^;

 

[Deleted member]

What I also noticed at the end of the video when Mega Man won was just his name with a still picture.

Does that mean at the end of matches, character will no longer have victory poses and the whole clapping thing for the losers?

Yeah I've noticed this as well. Hopefully this is just a demo and that they're not going away. Liked that part every time a match ends.

 

[Big-Cat]

I couldn't care less if the game used 3D or not, I don't use it in any of my games. Don't know how that'd be practical while playing in matches, in fact didn't a fighting game on the 3DS have the ability to use 3D during a match but it slowed down the frame rate by like half?

SSF4 had to do that, but then Namco showed it was possible with Tekken 3D.

 

[LiteralGrill]

Yeah that's the thing, I don't.... really know... As I've only played the first Pikmin and that was only for a little bit. So I don't know what other attack's he could have to replace those... ^^;

Don't feel bad, I have no idea what they'd be either, but if it had to be done, your idea would be the best way probably. Sakurai could come up with 2 moves.

 

[Curious Villager]

Don't feel bad, I have no idea what they'd be either, but if it had to be done, your idea would be the best way probably. Sakurai could come up with 2 moves.

Yeah I'm pretty sure sakurai can think of something, perhaps certain Pikmin can be utilized in some creative way? Like him ramming the rock Pikmin to the ground causing a small shock wave or 3 pikmin circling around him for a little bit and hurting his opponents like Megaman's leaf attack thing only he can't throw them. I don't know really. ^^;

 

[Holder of the Heel]

SSF4 had to do that, but then Namco showed it was possible with Tekken 3D.

Ah, thank you Kuma.

 

[Moon Monkey]

That kinda reminds me a bit of Olimar Kirby... What if Olimar worked like that? He basically pull's out one Pikmin and then immediately throws it at his opponent. Much like Olimar Kirby does. And if there is any Pikmin related attacks then pretty much the same thing happens, Pikmin showing up from thin air and getting used for attack..

That would leave open for two new special moves as the Pikmin Pluck and down Special will become useless then, not sure what to replace them with though.... Is that a good way to bypass the 3DS limitation for Olimar at least? :/

I'm guessing they will rework Olimar to some degree, because now that you mention it, Kirby's Olimar ability was kind of weird in Brawl. Though the whole party system thing was pretty unique.

Did Sakurai say anything about characters playing differently in the two versions? Or is he aiming for a similar representation across platforms?

Hyrule Castle and Saffron City : YES! Kongo Jungle from 64 would also be awesome. As would Brinstar and Sector Z. Actually... I want them to remake ALL of 64's and Melee's stages, and keep some cool ones from Brawl, like Castle Seige, Halberd, Delfino Plaza, anddd... Well, those where just about all the good stages from Brawl besides Final Destination, Battle Field and Smash Ville.

Aww yes! I would Sector Z over Corneria any day. Has anyone else noticed how the Great Fox has been shrinking in size each Smash installment? In Sector Z I could of sworn it took 2 jumps (and a recovery move from some characters) to reach the ships fin. and now in Brawl you can reach it with practically 1 jump.

Wait was Brinstar the one with Kraid rotating the screen???

 

[LiteralGrill]

Yeah I'm pretty sure sakurai can think of something, perhaps certain Pikmin can be utilized in some creative way? Like him ramming the rock Pikmin to the ground causing a small shock wave or 3 pikmin circling around him for a little bit and hurting his opponents like Megaman's leaf attack thing only he can't throw them. I don't know really. ^^;

Not gonna lie, I like the Rock idea a LOT

 

[`dazrin]

Just a random thought, but I bet they wouldn't have any problems with the 3ds version if they kept it to 1v1 matches only. I know this will probably never happen because smash is supposed to be about 4 player all out chaos with items and such, but it'd really help mitigate alot of the problems.......

lol

@MoonMonkey
Sakurai stated that wii u and 3ds will have nearly identical gameplay. This means same roster, movesets, etc.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I'd orgasm for indefinite periods of time if Sector Z was remade

Brinstar Depths is the stage you're thinking of, Moon Monkey

Brinstar is pretty much the Melee equivalent to Planet Zebes in 64

 

[Curious Villager]

I'm guessing they will rework Olimar to some degree, because now that you mention it, Kirby's Olimar ability was kind of weird in Brawl. Though the whole party system thing was pretty unique. Did Sakurai say anything about characters playing differently in the two versions? Or is he aiming for a similar representation across platforms?

Well it's not like Kirby could have done much with the Pikmin if all he could do was pluck them since that's basically Olimar's neutral special move. So Kirby's neutral special was basically a mix of Olimar's Neutral and side special move.