Super Smash Bros 4 (Wii U/3DS) Topic

[Hoots]

Hey, quick question... what would you do or say if there were NO newcomers? and that they would just fine tune the characters that they already have?

me personally? I would might just skimp out on getting a Wii U... that's how much i feel about it... i may get one eventually but for metroid... and mario karts... and then EVENTUALLY get smash when it's cheaper...

I don't care how much say Sakurai has, Nintendo's marketing department could NEVER allow that. Marketing would be an absolute nightmare. Seeing how the big part of every new fighting game is the new characters, whenever a reporter/ANYONE asks about exciting new additions to the roster, their PR people will have to be like, "Well... There aren't ACTUALLY any new characters... But, but, but! We have exciting new modes like Super Smash Musical!"

It would be setting itself up for a colossal failure.

 

[KrymsonSkyz]

http://www.gamespot.com/news/smash-bros-for-wii-u-3ds-may-need-change-of-direction-says-dev-6385433

 

[Holder of the Heel]

^ Get a load of this guy.

 

[augustoflores]

For the record, Sakurai said that likely before he made an agreement with Namco Bandai OR before he got to see their demo. Thus eliminating the balancing issue
... Zamus - GONE? ......GTFO

ahh, yes... "Cut characters could always be downloadable content later. I would focus on more exciting roster to lure in potential buyers." this quote i'd like to pick on...

DLC... potential buyers... keeping DLC from gamers when they could have gotten it at launch... or showing that this game isn't complete... MANY gamers won't touch this game for even having the DLC practice akin to other fighting games... thus lessening the profits from potential buyers.

 

[Bowserlick]

Of course there will be new characters. I expect massive cuts though to keep the number around where it is now. Cut characters could always be downloadable content later. I would focus on more exciting roster to lure in potential buyers.

What cuts to make...hmmmmm

My guesses if cutting characters is taken to the extreme and with the opportunity for these characters to return as Downloadable content.

Lucas-GONE
Lucario-GONE (replaced?)
Wolf or Falco-GONE
Toon Link-GONE
Ike-REPLACED
R.O.B-GONE
Zamus-GONE
Jiggs-GONE
Charizard, Ivysaur, Squirtle-REPLACED
Sonic-REPLACED
Snake-REPLACED

There could be a DLC package with the cut characters. The focus on the game should be each character's play style and flavor. If 35 character spaces is the limit (or around that number) as Sakurai kinda suggested, then massive cuts have to be made. I am sure people would not have minded if Mewtwo was DL in Brawl, which you suggest otherwise.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Jigglypuff won't be gone.

I am pretty sure she is still popular in Japan - and she is a veteran.

 

[Starphoenix]

Why does there have to be massive cuts? Why not simply refine the characters we have while adding new characters? Brawl's roster was close to perfect with only a few notable names absent. There is no reason to cut popular characters already in the series for c-tier characters that nobody beyond message boards give two spits about. Most reasonable people were only expecting 7-9 newcomers anyways

 

[Claire Diviner]

I'm convinced that all characters originating in Smash 64 will return for Smash 4. They were in the first three Smash games, and granted, Ness was originally supposed to be cut from Melee in favor of Lucas, not only did they postpone Lucas and kept Ness in Melee, but both Ness and Lucas appear playable in Brawl. As for cuts in the Brawl roster, the only characters I can realistically see being cut are Toon Link and Lucario. Toon Link in favor of another incarnation of a preteen Link and Lucario in favor of a more bipedal Pokémon, most notably Zoroark (as many are predicting).

 

[Bowserlick]

I am guessing there were new mechanics that Sakurai wanted to add in Brawl, but could not get around to in time. I think he has stated this, though not sure. If more mechanics are added, each character would take longer to develop.

Sakurai has also alluded to customizing existing characters in the 3DS version. And he has stated that the quantity of characters may have reached its limits. I simply tried to make an example of extreme cuts with my list.

*I forgot to add Sonic and Snake to the cut/replaced list.

 

[---]

(courtesy of Tri-Hi's information database)

Gotta like advertisements.

Why does there have to be massive cuts? Why not simply refine the characters we have while adding new characters? Brawl's roster was close to perfect with only a few notable names absent. There is no reason to cut popular characters already in the series for c-tier characters that nobody beyond message boards give two spits about. Most reasonable people were only expecting 7-9 newcomers anyways

This. Also kinda why I hate most Mario suggestions, since the C Tier characters from that series are more well known than Samus, Falcon, or Fox.

I'm convinced that all characters originating in Smash 64 will return for Smash 4. They were in the first three Smash games, and granted, Ness was originally supposed to be cut from Melee in favor of Lucas, not only did they postpone Lucas and kept Ness in Melee, but both Ness and Lucas appear playable in Brawl. As for cuts in the Brawl roster, the only characters I can realistically see being cut are Toon Link and Lucario. Toon Link in favor of another incarnation of a preteen Link and Lucario in favor of a more bipedal Pokémon, most notably Zoroark (as many are predicting).

Wouldn't call cutting Toon Link for Young Link a cut, as for the Pokemon there are several reasons why Lucario getting cut is overrated and why Zoroark has nothing on him (that's not to say Zoroark isn't notable in it's own way), but I'll save that for the Lucario and Zoroark threads.

 

[Starphoenix]

I am guessing there were new mechanics that Sakurai wanted to add in Brawl, but could not get around to in time. I think he has stated this, though not sure. If more mechanics are added, each character would take longer to develop.

Not any more so than any other game in the series.

Sakurai has also alluded to customizing existing characters in the 3DS version. And he has stated that the quantity of characters may have reached its limits. I simply tried to make an example of extreme cuts with my list.

*I forgot to add Sonic and Snake to the cut/replaced list.

Really, this whole "reach the limits of what's feasible" thing has become the new "up until now".

Anyways, I don't think character customization is going to be much different than what we have seen in Super Smash Bros. Brawl (sticker system) or Kid Icarus: Uprising. It won't have much bearing on the roster itself.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Wouldn't call cutting Toon Link for Young Link a cut.

Well, maybe not a cut in the traditional sense more than a re-imagining.

as for the Pokemon there are several reasons why Lucario getting cut is overrated and why Zoroark has nothing on him (that's not to say Zoroark isn't notable in it's own way), but I'll save that for the Lucario and Zoroark threads.

While yes, it's overrated, and Zoroark may not have anything on Lucario as some believe, I am simply going by a pattern of Pokémon additions. In Melee, they had Mewtwo, and then he was cut (for some reason) for Lucario. So while I would like for both Mewtwo and Lucario to return for Smash 4, replacing Lucario with Zoroark will not be surprising to me, and shouldn't come as much of a shock to you or anyone else either. Expect a cut, but be pleasantly surprised when that cut doesn't happen.

 

[---]

Well, maybe not a cut in the traditional sense more than a re-imagining.

Sakurai's weird in that sense. lol

Hopefully they keep TL's moveset if it happens though.

While yes, it's overrated, and Zoroark may not have anything on Lucario as some believe, I am simply going by a pattern of Pokémon additions. In Melee, they had Mewtwo, and then he was cut (for some reason) for Lucario. So while I would like for both Mewtwo and Lucario to return for Smash 4, replacing Lucario with Zoroark will not be surprising to me, and shouldn't come as much of a shock to you or anyone else either. Expect a cut, but be pleasantly surprised when that cut doesn't happen.

Mewtwo was planned for the 64. But anyway it happened once and it was due to time, not really a pattern...

 

[Big-Cat]

Well, maybe not a cut in the traditional sense more than a re-imagining.

Are you thinking of a reboot roster wise?

 

[Claire Diviner]

Are you thinking of a reboot roster wise?

No, more like another reboot of Young Link. Toon Link was his replacement for Brawl, so I imagine they'll use another child Link to replace Toon Link for Smash 4.

 

[Retroend]

weren't there people around here that said that sakurai wanted to add older nintendo characters to smash 4? i think some people had a source but i forgot where they got it.

 

[Starphoenix]

weren't there people around here that said that sakurai wanted to add older nintendo characters to brawl 4? i think some people had a source but i forgot where they got it.

It was in a recent interview with Cubed3.com:

Adam Riley: You have mentioned how you like to breathe new life into forgotten franchises. Now that Kid Icarus has been completed, what other old classic would you like to look at? Ice Climbers, Star Tropics, MoleMania…or something non-Nintendo?

Sakurai-san: I am planning on doing my best to bring old characters back in Smash Bros. From that perspective, I am probably in the most fortunate position in the world.

http://www.cubed3.com/news/16920

 

[Retroend]

It was in a recent interview with Cubed3.com:


http://www.cubed3.com/news/16920

right. if anything , if sakurai cuts characters and doesn't any new ones, people are gonna rage. but if he intends to have DLC later on for new charcaters, then i'd guess i'd be ok with that.

 

[augustoflores]

oh wow! so someone mentioned Startropics and molemania! so does this guarantee that sakurai now has knowledge of these two games?

 

[Big-Cat]

right. if anything , if sakurai cuts characters and doesn't any new ones, people are gonna rage. but if he intends to have DLC later on for new charcaters, then i'd guess i'd be ok with that.

Personally, I'd rather see an updated rerelease, especially since this lets them redo things like the gameplay mechanics and netcode that would otherwise be difficult to do via DLC (or so I hear).

oh wow! so someone mentioned Startropics and molemania! so does this guarantee that sakurai now has knowledge of these two games?

Sakurai mentioned Muddy Mole soon after the first Brawl trailer was released. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if he's one of the first announced characters.

 

[Johnknight1]

Anyone expecting massive cuts are foolish. Re-adding characters from Brawl and Melee (with loads of data, and their only needs are graphic updates, being balanced, updated frames, upgrade hitboxes, and maybe a few new moves) is a lot easier than starting from new.

It also would be much more expensive to return characters than add characters, just like how in business, according to many experts, it is 5 times more expensive to get a new client than keep an old one. Which is why "customer loyalty" is such a big thing, and why the bulk of the Melee roster returned in Brawl, mostly relatively unchanged aesthetically.

 

[~automatic]

... and why the bulk of the Melee roster returned in Brawl, mostly relatively unchanged aesthetically.

G&W, Pika and Kirby being prime examples. XD

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Anyone expecting massive cuts are foolish. Re-adding characters from Brawl and Melee (with loads of data, and their only needs are graphic updates, being balanced, updated frames, upgrade hitboxes, and maybe a few new moves) is a lot easier than starting from new.

It also would be much more expensive to return characters than add characters, just like how in business, according to many experts, it is 5 times more expensive to get a new client than keep an old one. Which is why "customer loyalty" is such a big thing, and why the bulk of the Melee roster returned in Brawl, mostly relatively unchanged aesthetically.

Too True. I really do want to see some changes though.

Like for Marth, I want to see him with an alt as that new masked Marth Girl. I just want to play with a female who has a sword, and since Marth looks so much like a girl anyway it wouldn't hurt. She could just be an alternate costume and give her some feminine features in her movements. Her F-smash could be the same speed, but she just uses both ands on the swing. That and she has all that crop (hair)

Chu, Kirby and G&W would be hard to change because they are who they are unfortunately. DK looked the same, just fuzzier and clean. If they had a particle effect similar to the one in DOA 5 where the characters get dirty after fighting since they are constantly falling on the ground. I think some basic C++ and collision effects knowledge is all that's needed.

 

[Kirbunny431]

I can't wait to see how round Kirby can be in HD.

Also, I'm on John's side in the character amount debate thing.
Now I just hope he's right.

 

[Claire Diviner]

If they had a particle effect similar to the one in DOA 5 where the characters get dirty after fighting since they are constantly falling on the ground. I think some basic C++ and collision effects knowledge is all that's needed.

They were originally going to have visual combat damage in Brawl as was evident in beta elements when viewing textures, such as Falcon's visor being cracked and Meta Knight's mask having a gash.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

They were originally going to have visual combat damage in Brawl as was evident in beta elements when viewing textures, such as Falcon's visor being cracked and Meta Knight's mask having a gash.

I didn't know that. I'm sure they're gonna get it right this time.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Kirbunny431
The character thing (about just re-adding thing) I am right on, unless Sakurai and co. chooses not to use a lot of that data like they did in Brawl (aside from a few basic moves and movements). In Melee, a lot of the data was transferred over from Smash 64, and drastically improved.

Too True. I really do want to see some changes though.

Yeah, I think Marth is getting a redesign based on his FE11/12 appearance (maybe with his current look as an alternate outfit). He may get a "Mask" for one costume to reference Masked Marth.

Spoiler

The girl disguised as Marth in FE13 is actually one of his descendants.

And Then after that, I think Ike will have his Radiant Dawn as his default look, with his Brawl/PoR look being his alternate (like Wario's). While I'm at it, I think that costume pieces (like hats, shirts, pants, etc) are possible, and even more possible is the idea of using a color wheel for costumes. That would be dope!

Everyone else is just going to look smoother, better, and more clearly defined. God I can't wait to see what characters like :lucariobrawl:, :ganonbrawl:, :falconbrawl:, and :foxbrawl: look like in true 8th Generation HD!

 

[lordvaati]

@Bowser

.....you pretty much cut every Brawl newcomer.

I'mpretty sure at least ROB is staying.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Dude...smash needs more team colors.

 

[lordvaati]

team yellow, anyone?

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Eternal phoenix Fire
Yeah, especially if we can play with up to 6 players. We could just have an easy addition of the other 3 colors of the rainbow (orange, yellow, and purple) for each character.

Maybe we could even have the option of creating our own team colors. That would be a pretty freaking sweet idea if implemented (although that is very unlikely).

Oh, and I forgot one thing: give Sonic actual skin color changes; that "ring color change" crap was lame. Knuckles Red Sonic, Shadow Black Sonic, Tails Orange Sonic, etc.

 

[lordvaati]

^that so bad.

they had to make a freaking colorblind rule for that guy.

 

[Kirbunny431]

Dude...smash needs more team colors.

Yellow team please.

~~~

I'm really hoping the game isn't just Brawl but finer tuned with a few new features. That'd turn me off of the game in an instant, to be stuck with the same characters I've been playing as since 2008. I play Smash for the characters and stages. To see my favorite (and not so favorite) Nintendo characters duke it out is possibly my biggest reason for liking the series. If I end up stuck with the Brawl characters (and perhaps Mewtwo, Roy, and other Melee veterans), I'm going to be very disappointed. I've already seen Mario face off against Sonic and Snake. I've already pitted Captain Falcon against Samus. Olimar and the Ice Climbers have already had a chance to meet each other. I don't want to have the same matches I've had before.

I might be a bit late to that discussion, but I kinda got a bit lost in rant there. I'm not going to just delete it, either, because that would mean the whole thing was just a waste of time.

Bottom line is that adding no new characters/making drastic cuts isn't a good idea, to me and probably a lot of the fanbase. I agree with the "lost in translation" explanation, because I really don't think Sakurai would just keep the max at 39.

Besides, now that Namco-Bandai is helping, he probably has enough resources to create and balance at least 50 characters. That quote was from before they were helping out, right?

Oh, and I forgot one thing: give Sonic actual skin color changes; that "ring color change" crap was lame. Knuckles Red Sonic, Shadow Black Sonic, Tails Orange Sonic, etc.

Why would they even do that, anyway? Sonic is basically one color: blue. Just change the hue on him and you could have plenty of Sonic OCs colors for Sonic.

 

[Johnknight1]

they had to make a freaking colorblind rule for that guy.

Welcome to rushed development!

Why would they even do that, anyway? Sonic is basically one color: blue. Just change the hue on him and you could have plenty of Sonic OCs colors for Sonic.

Sonic was added in 2007, aka less than a year before Brawl's release. Plus, I think the graphic designers were busy!

But really, Sonic's color changes are easy. Just give him every color of the rainbow (make the yellow a dull yellow), plus white and black and we're good.

 

[FlareHabanero]

I thought the Sonic palette swaps were due to Sega wanting to keep the trademark blue color in tact. could be wrong though.

 

[AetherEch0s]

Site updated again

Starting to doubt its smash bros.

 

[augustoflores]

statue of liberty, Dates, Aquarium, Dates, is that beef?, travel by horse slavery... sigh... my dream date with Lili...
lol, i don't think any of this will have anything to do with the game they are trying to reveal.

speaking of lili, she's going to be in the next Digimon game.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Maybe it's uh...battle around the globe?

 

[---]

Starting to doubt its smash bros.

What gave it away? The pig nose or the dates?

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I'm starting to think those pictures have nothing to do with anything.