Super Mario RPG Mafia: Hilt lynched, Town wins!

[Omni]

did you really just specifically look at the players on your wagon and choose 4 players randomly out of there to be scum based on the fact that they've wanted you dead @ rajam?

i dont really mind the vote on me. i just wish u had make like an argument against me. your analysis is weak and the fact that you're concentrating only on players who were fine with you dying shows that you have a pure OMGUS mindset.

anyway, you're being a lot less useless, but your input is still fits the key. do you have any reason to find anyone scummy minus the fact that they are okay with you dying

unvote
Vote: UTD

 

[Rajam]

Pierce, regarding your 536:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12583830&postcount=536

What would you think of Krystedez if I flip town?

I know I'm town, and when I first looked on those huge posts from Krystedez I got the impression he was just town hunting me based on the most superficial elements (RVS posts), instead of trying to create or take advantage of this situation from RVS. I didn't and still don't get scum vibes from him, but he is looking at the content of the posts much more than intention.

Pierce you're making the same thing if you're town. Just looking at that #536 is obvious you're using superficial elements to hunt Krystedez, you're ignoring intention. I don't see scum intention in him. However I'm not so sure if you're using these elements because you're also town reading posts' content more than intention, or if you're scum creating storms from little insignificant details.

If Omni or other experienced, careful player is scum, do you think you'll be able to catch him based on posts' content? that will be impossible. Specially Day 1. If Omni is scum the only way you could catch him will be based on Night actions and Night results. And that could take several Days. Omni or other experienced players will never "slip" so it's impossible to cath them based on their posts' content.

Conclusion: Look at players' intention behind their postings. Going by content you'll just end lynching weak townies who "slip" easier much more times instead of actual scum, specially, specially Day 1. I'm not saying don't look at posts' content, but on Day 1 with no info but the one created by players interaction starting from nothing I consider even more important posts' intention. Posts' content becomes a lot more valuable with Night results and some flips and claims around. So, unless you see an actual real scum slip or scum tell, go by intention toDay. I consider Omni is scum but with so many players focusing on superficial elements I hardly think Omni will be lynched. But he's scum. So is Shaya, so is likely T-block or even you.

 

[Rajam]

T-block' 556:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12589219&postcount=556

I'll quickly address some of your points, and I'll address the rest tomorrow:

- Game starts @post #51, Apr-19th 12:09 pm
- My penultimate RVS post is #145, Apr-19th 04:42 pm
- My last RVS post was #221, Apr-20th 09:19 am

Between my penultimate RVS post and my last one I was away so that's why I didnt't post. When I came back next day morning I wanted to make an official last RVS non-sense post for fun and then start to play seriously.

I wanted to know WHY you stayed in RVS. This is a new question, and up to this point you hadn't addressed this.

Because I wanted to.
Nonetheless you're just ignoring that I started to play serious in the same post I ended my RVS non-sense

Do you honestly get the impression that I'm tunneling you hard for your RVS crap?

Yes.
Instead of a simple "Rajam, stop that and start playing", you proceeded to create a storm from this insignificant detail. It's like RR's Rebecca claim, or Krystedez flavor talk... or even Zac, Zigsta and Hilt inactivity: If they're doing that, you just simply call them upon that, tell them to stop that attitude, and move on. But instead you decided to stay making this bigger and bigger based on an attitude I didn't insist more than 24 hours from when the game began. We're now Apr-22nd-23rd and you still are with this non-sense

Doesn't every one of my posts in this section bring in something new?

In fact, it shows how you started from a little detail and make it appear like a huge thing:

Originally Posted by T-block:
"Rajam, the point is it looks like you're up to something strange, which isn't necessarily bad, but generating confusion IS anti-town, and now you're trying to pass it off as RVS trolling."

Originally Posted by T-block:
"Your trolling continued well past RVS though. It just became a source of confusion when everyone else was trying to move on."

Originally Posted by T-block:
"Rajam, post 54 is fine. This is RVS I have no problem with.

Posts 58, 61, 66 are meh, but nothing too serious alone. We have Omni asking serious questions, but not much else. By your post 75, we have my response to Omni's question, Chibo's asking about flavour, etc. Already enough to go on.

Then we have this:







This should be the end of RVS. However, what's your first post after that?



This is now officially being distracting, when you could be doing more productive things. More posts follow:











Your last post of RVS was post 221. RVS ended post 89.

So I guess the better question is: why did you feel the need to prolong your "RVS trolling"?"

Originally Posted by T-block
"Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajam
@T-block: because I didn't get anything from your interaction with RR, and Raziek+Omni interventions. For me it was still pretty much RVS
I hope nobody buys this. Even if you don't get anything, you can ask other players what they thought, bring up other things, etc.

The reason this justification is bull**** is that you could have just sat back and done NOTHING and waited for something real to comment on. Not only would you be under less suspicion now, but you would also be less of a hindrance to town."

Now let me ask you: was this an unfair statement on my part? Am I WRONG in saying it would have been better for you to stay quiet?

My problem is that you created a huge issue from a little detail. You'll eventually see townies troll, playing dumb, "slip", etc. maybe on purpose, maybe inadvertently. That's not scummy, that's simply anti-town. If you see something scummy, you pursue it. If you see something anti-town, you just call on it, and make the player note he's doing something anti-town. But if you create a huge case from nothing but a so-obvious troll attitude that doesn't mean anything in terms of allignment because it lasted less than 24 hours since the game began (independent of if I stayed longer trolling or not), I can only think you're scum taking advantage of that situation.

---

T-block do you have a scum pick based on something scummy instead of something simply anti-town? (this goes pretty much related to what I said about the difference on pursuing posts' content and posts' intention, specially Day 1)

---

I'll continue tomorrow with your 2nd part.

 

[Rajam]

oh and before going to sleep, Omni is taking these several anti-town elements and make them look scummy, and that's why I consider Omni scum.

 

[Omni]

say wha

i never said u were scummy i said u need to die. theres a difference and ive made it clear. both are important.

if ur so good at reading reread at the part where i said i am totally in favor of killing anti-town players Day 1 because they (you) are gonna be horrible come lylo.

rajam, before u started posting like a normal poster u needed to die. u extended the RVS way farther then it needed to be extended, cause unnecessary drama and attention for town so mafia can do w/e the **** they want, and then u take a small hiatus only to make these long retorts about how you're omgus'ing people who think u need to die

if u are town

u SHOULD be concentrating on players who are calling you outright scum. my vote has been placeheld on you the ENTIRE game just so u can stop being a ******* and to force a claim so i can move on to someone else. i dont trust u dude. never seen u play like this in any game and in every game ive been in with u youve been town.

you are RR are still on the top of my list and prolly everyone's list. im like moving my vote frequently to players who are either inactive and/or need to claim. i still think u need to claim cuz u aint doin nuthin but showin your dislike for people thinking u need to die

@shaya: im really concerned about you. what are your thoughts on chibo's gameplay so far.

/endtookmesolongernottotypowhilebeingdrunkwhilemakingthispost

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Quick chime in from me. Going to be taking a bit of a nap pretty soon. T-Block, I will respond to your question afterwards. Sorry to put it off. I'd rather go over the posts you linked me and respond when I'm more able, and not half asleep. However, I think you misunderstood me. I did not say that I was "wary" of Krystedez. You asked me who was on my mind, and part of my response was me saying that Krys has made posts that did not sit well with me.

Few things I want to say before I head out. Rajam wagon smells too much like there's scum on board. I've been on the fence of what my stance on the Rajam situation is, but I think I'm set on one now. I don't have enough reason to think of Rajam as scum. I don't see him as useless or unhelpful to town, potentially. I do not like the way the Rajam wagon progressed. I don't support his lynch today. Ryu is a much better play, and I'd enjoy seeing more votes tossed in his direction.

Uhhh I think that's it for now? The only thing I haven't caught up with as of now was Pierce's long post on Krystedez, but I will read it first chance I get. I want to make sure I'll be able to take it in well and not space out, haha.

You think Mario would be a safe claim for scum?

Why not? I don't recall reading any guidelines that state main characters shouldn't be used as fake claims. Say something of worth once in awhile, Ryu.

 

[T-block]

Nonetheless you're just ignoring that I started to play serious in the same post I ended my RVS non-sense

Hmm...I have this quote:

Rajam, I didn't mind as much... he was not nearly as distracting as RR, and now he seems to be playing seriously.

I thought I did mention it in one other place, but I can't find the post now =\ Rest assured, your serious play has been noted though.

Yes.
Instead of a simple "Rajam, stop that and start playing", you proceeded to create a storm from this insignificant detail. It's like RR's Rebecca claim, or Krystedez flavor talk... or even Zac, Zigsta and Hilt inactivity: If they're doing that, you just simply call them upon that, tell them to stop that attitude, and move on. But instead you decided to stay making this bigger and bigger based on an attitude I didn't insist more than 24 hours from when the game began.

You yourself said to look at intention over content (which, in my opinion, is not entirely accurate, but w/e). I wanted a clear stance as to your INTENTION behind your actions.

We're now Apr-22nd-23rd and you still are with this non-sense

I had every intention of putting the discussion on hold, but you were making posts accusing me quite heavily, so I felt I needed to post a defense. That's what the last two posts were.

My problem is that you created a huge issue from a little detail. You'll eventually see townies troll, playing dumb, "slip", etc. maybe on purpose, maybe inadvertently. That's not scummy, that's simply anti-town. If you see something scummy, you pursue it. If you see something anti-town, you just call on it, and make the player note he's doing something anti-town. But if you create a huge case from nothing but a so-obvious troll attitude that doesn't mean anything in terms of allignment because it lasted less than 24 hours since the game began (independent of if I stayed longer trolling or not), I can only think you're scum taking advantage of that situation.

Find me the posts where I pushed for your lynch. You are talking as if I'm set on lynching you toDay when that is not the case. I said I wanted you to claim because town doesn't need to dwell on this distraction. If your claim is able to clear you as town, I would be perfectly fine with saying "i guess it really was just rvs trolling" and moving on. I also said I would be fine with you dying (not that I was going to push for your lynch) because of your REACTION to pressure, as I've said.

T-block do you have a scum pick based on something scummy instead of something simply anti-town? (this goes pretty much related to what I said about the difference on pursuing posts' content and posts' intention, specially Day 1)

Scum picks based on something scummy? I'm not sure how to answer this question for you, since you seem to have some skewed idea of what is scummy. You and Krystedez are my top picks at the moment. Krystedez has been padding his posts with things that don't need to be said, answering questions with extraneous points.

Remember this is Day 1 - if I have the correct idea of what you actually consider "scummy", then it's very unlikely we'll have something "scummy" with no flips or lynches to go off.

As an aside, there is always intention behind content. You've been dismissing a lot of points lately as looking only a content, but I don't think anyone has actually been basing reads only on content...

 

[Padô]

I'll try to get up to date as soon as I can.

 

[Pierce7d]

Pierce, regarding your 536:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12583830&postcount=536

What would you think of Krystedez if I flip town?

I know I'm town, and when I first looked on those huge posts from Krystedez I got the impression he was just town hunting me based on the most superficial elements (RVS posts), instead of trying to create or take advantage of this situation from RVS. I didn't and still don't get scum vibes from him, but he is looking at the content of the posts much more than intention.

Pierce you're making the same thing if you're town. Just looking at that #536 is obvious you're using superficial elements to hunt Krystedez, you're ignoring intention. I don't see scum intention in him. However I'm not so sure if you're using these elements because you're also town reading posts' content more than intention, or if you're scum creating storms from little insignificant details.

If Omni or other experienced, careful player is scum, do you think you'll be able to catch him based on posts' content? that will be impossible. Specially Day 1. If Omni is scum the only way you could catch him will be based on Night actions and Night results. And that could take several Days. Omni or other experienced players will never "slip" so it's impossible to cath them based on their posts' content.

Conclusion: Look at players' intention behind their postings. Going by content you'll just end lynching weak townies who "slip" easier much more times instead of actual scum, specially, specially Day 1. I'm not saying don't look at posts' content, but on Day 1 with no info but the one created by players interaction starting from nothing I consider even more important posts' intention. Posts' content becomes a lot more valuable with Night results and some flips and claims around. So, unless you see an actual real scum slip or scum tell, go by intention toDay. I consider Omni is scum but with so many players focusing on superficial elements I hardly think Omni will be lynched. But he's scum. So is Shaya, so is likely T-block or even you.

Rajam, your play is bogus.

First of all, if you bothered to read what I posted, I clearly consider intention, when I state that I naturally get a noob town vibe on Krystedez, but when I utilize my meta, it shows that I could also be mistaking this for scum behavior because the last time I thought that his intentions were just to learn the game and be active, he was actually Mafia.

You cannot just assume you know players intentions, because good players will cloak their intentions even EASIER than the content. Basing your plays off of hypothetical intentions that you formulate in your mind off Day 1 posts is not likely to give you anymore insight than looking at the actual content of the posts, which can at least be used to create factual and solid ties later.

Second, you say you're looking at intention, but your whole strategy for "Who do I think is scummy" is to simply OMGUS everyone. You declare yourself town, and automatically people who suspect you for what is arguably the worst play I ever seen have decided have poor intentions. The thought of that makes me LOL.

I know I'm town, and I was one of the first people to call you out, so while I acknowledge that some of the people drilling you may indeed be scum, it's not a scum tell. If you want the pressure on you to drop, why don't you try building a real case on someone that has more content than, "He thinks I'm scum based on my bad play, so clearly he must be scum." In case you didn't notice, your play has been poor so far, even outside RVS.

Also, because it's day one, and we have limited information to go off of, any decision of players intentions is merely speculation. Content, play, and slips are far more reliable.

Let me debunk your logic right now. You have 4 players that you suspect are scum, because they are focusing on your poor play early game. However, the majority of town is in agreement that your play was poor. Also, it is very, VERY unlikely that there are 4 scum players in this game. That means at least one and probably more than two players that you suspect are scummy for suspecting you, are actually town. How can a town player be scummy for suspecting you if multiple town players are doing it? This obviously means your read should be NULL and not SCUM.

That being said, I think you are scum. Your confident accusations of calling people scum because they suspect one of the most anti-town plays I've ever seen of being scummy amuses me greatly.

Rajam, what do you think Chibo's intentions have been throughout the game? Do you have any scum picks that are not heavily expressing their dislike of you play?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

He's making up bull**** on the spot and being uncooperative, lynch him!

 

[Shaya]

Hey guys, I've been neglecting uni work and have a project due in 34 hours that I'll probably not be getting sleep over.

I intend to do a reread of multiple players, and I'm sure that will produce enough of something prior to the friday deadline (which will be something like saturday maybe even sunday for me).

Activity's kinda dropped a lot though... suppose its the easter weekend.
Zac really should be getting pressured here.

As such I'm taking my vote off of Rajam for now. Still a bit perplexed about Hilt thinking RR has been more anti-town than rajam. I guess I'll understand it more after some homework.

Unvote

tl;dr bbl-afk

 

[Pierce7d]

Aww, I got all hyped that Shaya posted, and I was getting ready to respond to something, and then he did almost nothing -_-

Why did I decide to play again?

 

[Pierce7d]

@Mod

request prod on UTDZac

 

[Omni]

Why did I decide to play again?

ya this always happens. games slow down and im like ugh **** this i hate mafia

wasted a few days on rajam. now imma prolly waste more on UTD.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Omni, how do you feel about Hilt's opinion on me vs Rajam and your take on maybe why he thinks this way.

 

[Tin Man]

He's making up bull**** on the spot and being uncooperative, lynch him!

lol perhaps u could be a little more suttle bro.

 

[Rajam]

I have no doubt that the majority of players wanting to see you claim want it NOT because of your RVS play, but because of how you responded to the pressure you received from it, and THIS is not what you are not understanding.

This is a game of mafia. Players are going to be pressured - applying pressure through questioning is how town catches scum. It is NOT a town move to brush off pressure, especially if you do so by trying to threaten players off your wagon. This game progresses because of pressure, and you are responding to pressure quite poorly. You attack the player pressuring you, as well as try to divert pressure to other players (Hilt, Zac, Zigsta) instead of attempting to respond rationally. This is the very definition of OMGUS and redirection, but considered fairly strong scum tells.

Go back and take a look. No player really individually applied TONS of pressure for your RVS play. I was probably the one who did the most, and I showed why I think it's justified in this post. Your attack on Pierce is a good case to examine. Find me the posts where Pierce attacks your RVS shenanigans. And then find me the posts where Pierce attacks your reaction to the attacks on your RVS shenanigans. Pierce's pressure definitely did NOT focus on your RVS crap, and yet you call him scummy for being caught up in your RVS play?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12567500&postcount=150

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12567545&postcount=152

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12567553&postcount=153

up to here the pressure was ok

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12567713&postcount=160

This is where Pierce already starts to have an oppinion of scum on me based purely on RVS play

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12572702&postcount=258

This is after my last RVS post. Pierce is still wondering about my play. So far it can be still be called ok

---

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12572746&postcount=261

To further address what Omni said about me, I'm usually really aggressive when I catch a whiff of something scummy. Right now, that whiff is Rajam and Red Ryu, and I definitely do plan on building strong cases on both of them, but their play is almost TOO scummy, as if there's something critical I'm missing, and I'm trying to determine it.

I'm just honestly not ready to believe that these players are legitimately that bad at being scum. Maybe a little too much self-induced WIFOM, but this is an Overswarm game, so I'm trying to find what I feel is the missing piece of the puzzle.

Also, I like to collect data, lists, and quantify things and organize things, because one thing I've learned is that numbers don't lie. I largely attribute my success in CT Mafia (if you can call it that -_-) to the fact that since I was inexperienced and didn't know how to make proper reads, I just stayed organized and looked at the facts on paper. I'm building a lot of facts now.

Lastly, I'm actually better at determining what I think based off of my analysis of external interrogation and interaction, than my own direct interactions. That seems silly, but this has only gotten stronger since I've been reading a lot of Mafia and playing little. That isn't at all to imply that I won't be doing a significant amount of drilling of my own, as I'm sure everyone will see today.

tl;dr, I'm coming Omni, just hold on a sec.

THIS post is where things start to get scummy, or "weird" if Pierce is town. I've not reacted to anything yet since I barely ended my last RVS post a couple of hours before, so Pierce is already calling me almost TOO scummy based purely on RVS play, not on my reactions. This is what I'm attacking. I honestly feel big part of the pressure on me was due to dumb play on RVS which hardly means anything, and players not willing to drop that almost meaningless first impression which usually leads to hard tunneling later, and I'm having a hard time distinguishing if this was town reacting on first impressions or scum making a big deal from nothing. At first I got more of a scum vibe though; I'm more on the fence now.

Note how this sequence of quote-links shows Pierce getting stuck on his first impression from my starting-play, and turning it into what he calls "almost TOO scummy" after that list in 160 which was indeed too soon and ended anyways biasing his oppinion. Again, I really think, at least if you (T-block) and Pierce are town, that you got very influenced by this RVS incident. I'm more on the edge with Omni though; I'll check and track how he joined this pressure on me (same with Shaya)

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Alright guys, deadline coming up in four days. We need to decide on a lynch within the next two days. What do people think about planning on lynching someone on the 27th? The 28th is the latest that I would want. So if we plan to end the day a bit earlier than that, then it should be unlikely that we'll end up no-lynching.

Really would like to hear more opinions on Ryu. Not many others have been that vocal about him. The conversation has been generally force focused on Rajam, it feels. Krystedez also is getting a lot of heat, but it doesn't seem like people would actually be committed to his lynch. So I have to ask, are any of us wanting to push for a Krystedez lynch? Pierce is one of the few to give a strong opinion on him, but his vote rests on UTD. At this point in the game, we're only wasting time. We need to figure out what few characters are our lynch candidates, and focus on them. Spreading around is okay if it's not the last four days of the day phase.

Anyways. The statement I made about Krys was mostly due to him coming out of nowhere with his accusations. I don't like his "I think ____ has this kind of power". It's baseless, doesn't get us anywhere, and is only fluff to make his post appear to have more content. The STP comments that pierce brought up as well.

As for the posts T-Block asked me for responses too:

#431: Reaching. Also, while I don't... think that Rajam's "Kupo!" is a breadcrumb, Krys pointing it out immediately bothers me. Don't do that, Krys. If someone is breadcrumbing something, let people notice it on their own, or let the person reveal it when they feel it should be revealed. On the note of "Kupo!", this is not the first game Rajam has done this outside of the game that it was a posting restriction in. When asked why he said it, he replied that he loved moogles. Back to the post though, it's full of nothingness. Fluffed up to appear more important.

#447: The fact that he actually states that if RR hammers scum-Rajam, he would release the idea of them being partners, makes me laugh. Krys. These are one of the things that you keep in your head until after it happens. Think of if everyone actually thought this. The person could just hammer his scum partner and relieve some pressure. But people don't. So it's just full of wifom. You making this statement was pointless. And scum voting off their partners, or even making cases on their scum mates, is in no way uncommon. You're looking at it too simply. I don't like this post.

#461: "I'm not trying to pad my posts..." You're doing it, whether you're trying to or not. He says in this post that he wants RR to lynch Rajam because of the... "security of the rest of town?" What? He assumes that talking about flavor is what he's padding his posts with, and doesn't really seem to understand what the phrase means.

#540: My paragraph before I started responding to your links would apply to this post, T-Block. Talking about him throwing people into different types of scum without much reason. I don't like it. It doesn't get us anywhere at all.

Think that's everything I was suppose to reply to. Did I miss anything from anyone?

 

[Rajam]

did you really just specifically look at the players on your wagon and choose 4 players randomly out of there to be scum based on the fact that they've wanted you dead @ rajam?

i dont really mind the vote on me. i just wish u had make like an argument against me. your analysis is weak and the fact that you're concentrating only on players who were fine with you dying shows that you have a pure OMGUS mindset.

anyway, you're being a lot less useless, but your input is still fits the key. do you have any reason to find anyone scummy minus the fact that they are okay with you dying

unvote
Vote: UTD

Quick chime in from me. Going to be taking a bit of a nap pretty soon. T-Block, I will respond to your question afterwards. Sorry to put it off. I'd rather go over the posts you linked me and respond when I'm more able, and not half asleep. However, I think you misunderstood me. I did not say that I was "wary" of Krystedez. You asked me who was on my mind, and part of my response was me saying that Krys has made posts that did not sit well with me.

Few things I want to say before I head out. Rajam wagon smells too much like there's scum on board. I've been on the fence of what my stance on the Rajam situation is, but I think I'm set on one now. I don't have enough reason to think of Rajam as scum. I don't see him as useless or unhelpful to town, potentially. I do not like the way the Rajam wagon progressed. I don't support his lynch today. Ryu is a much better play, and I'd enjoy seeing more votes tossed in his direction.

Uhhh I think that's it for now? The only thing I haven't caught up with as of now was Pierce's long post on Krystedez, but I will read it first chance I get. I want to make sure I'll be able to take it in well and not space out, haha.Why not? I don't recall reading any guidelines that state main characters shouldn't be used as fake claims. Say something of worth once in awhile, Ryu.

The green parts resume pretty well how I feel/felt. I trolled during 24 hours after the game started, and somehow everyone then was acting like I did the biggest scum tells in history and a little after everyone wanted me to claim. If I've been focusing only at the people on my wagon is because I feel most if not all scum joined it. The only exception is Krystedez, but the rest is either null (RR, Chibo) or scummy (Pierce, T-block, Omni, Shaya). You may call it OMGUS, but I strongly think a lot of scum is here

I'm still surprised at how willingly you supported my claim this early and as a consequence of my initial play. I feel you're some sort of ninja pushing and supporting for my lynch/claim, with T-blok and Pierce being the vocal ones and you just agreeing/supporting them without much further addition but your meta on my different play style (Shaya is like the same btw but without even the meta). We've only played twice, Chrono Trigger which was my 1st game (and you should know you can't expect me to play like that again), and Mario Kart which was my 5th game, and this is my 11th. You make it sound like we've played tons of times.

 

[Omni]

@Rajam: Re-read through my posts very carefully especially of which were about you. I couldn't pin any scumminess on you because there were no scum vibes because for the first part of the game all you did was troll and play very awkward and sporadic.

My vote on you as stuck and stayed the entire game so that you'd take your thumb out your *** and start playing real mafia. When you finally returned, you decided to say that everyone who was on your wagon was scummy because you don't believe your wagon was... hm... deserved? In which case: "During that time, who's wagon do you believe would be more deserved and why?

There were two really big things that made me question your play:

1.) I have never seen you play like this in any game of Mafia. And I have been playing in a lot of games of Mafia with you where you were town. Why would you, for this game, purposely extend the RVS way past its due time? Because you felt like it? That isn't consistent for your play. Unless during the time we haven't played together you've decided to become utterly useless in the beginning of a game. And your response of "Omni, it's null," was horrible and weak. You never did respond back to what I said.

2.) Your attention to only players who were on your wagon. Your entire focus has been built on players on your wagon yet I don't think you even touched on player's who were/are on RR's wagon. The small RR vs. T-block with Raziek/Me side issue meant nothing to you. Your opinions are centered around thinking that anyone who felt like you needed die or be pressured into claim/playing mafia correctly is scum.

Omni, how do you feel about Hilt's opinion on me vs Rajam and your take on maybe why he thinks this way.

Hilt's opinion on you vs. Rajam? Or do you mean you & Rajam?

@Hilt: RR can still die, but I don't get any strong feelings that he's scum. I recently played two games with him where he was town and I can't find anything "off" with his play. You should really go back to the LoD and perhaps read up on them; RR looks scummy as hell but he never was. Which makes me think I need to find a game where he is indeed scum to compare.

-----

My issue is that a lot of this game was deterred by:

- Rajam's ***********
- RR's unnecessary gambit

Both of them were anti-town, but neither of those actions were necessarily scummy. If the two are town then it makes it very easy for scum to board the wagon without looking scummy (which is why their play was horrible in the first place).

And now the game has slowed down quite a bit. Two of the "inactive" slots I really wanted to speak up was Hilt and UTD. Hiltbro has come through. UTD (who I am now voting for) has fallen back into the shadows.

*ramble ramble* Stopping here for post length wise and so I can directly speak with certain players.

 

[Krystedez]

I don't understand what "padding my posts" is then. Define it as you will, but far as I could tell, I was making legitimate accusations and a case based on the facts that everyone already knew. I was coming up with strategies to avoid a potential day 1 disaster, and I still never got an answer from T-Block about this, so I'll ask you too,

Hilt:

What difference does it make, if RR hammers or RR simply votes Rajam mid-tally? I argue that it has only one difference; town security. When Pado fake-claimed a bomb role, in BBRM I've been somewhat paranoid since then that a role of that calibur would come along. If you guys think that's BS, that's fine, but what's the wrong in doing something that is pro-town? I don't know that he's a bomb like role or not. Nor you. But the sanctity that it brings to my mind is worth it, and I figured it would be better to show town my intentions, not hide them (not saying something is basically hiding the truth which is done when you are lying, a policy I live by in real life when it comes to important matters). Which comes to my next point:

If everyone actually thought my way, it would be that everyone thinks that RR is town after hammering a scum Rajam. Right? Well, it's not that black and white, and I know this. But when I was looking at RR's post about not wanting to bring Rajam to L-1 right away or anything, it just clicked to me that he doesn't want to bring scum partners to L-1.

I don't like that out of the ones looking at my posts and prodding (Hilt, Pierce, T-Block) aren't even really trying to think behind my perspective or how it could help town; they're just "well you're reaching and I don't like that, you must be scum", looking for problems or reasons to accuse me. Pierce sort of just blows it back in my face (calling it BS) and Hilt just says that I'm reaching. I know you've said more than that, the both of you, but in the end, that's the point you two are making, correct?

@Rajam, so you think I am scummy? How is that in a 13 player game you think there is 5 scum, with four of them on your wagon?

 

[Krystedez]

I feel like I haven't talk to you much, Omni.

Have you had the chance to view my posts? Are they really as bad as Pierce, Hilt, and T-Block made them out to be?

And EBWOP: I meant to say the bomb role that MrEh claimed back in BBRM, Sorry about that.

 

[Omni]

The green parts resume pretty well how I feel/felt. I trolled during 24 hours after the game started, and somehow everyone then was acting like I did the biggest scum tells in history and a little after everyone wanted me to claim. If I've been focusing only at the people on my wagon is because I feel most if not all scum joined it. The only exception is Krystedez, but the rest is either null (RR, Chibo) or scummy (Pierce, T-block, Omni, Shaya). You may call it OMGUS, but I strongly think a lot of scum is here

Who, specifically, said your trolling equals scumtells? I don't remember anyone outwardly calling you scum as opposed to just really anti-town. Also, what you "feel" is real; you're making the assessment that anyone who wants you dead/wanted you to claim was scum. It is the perfect representation of OMGUS: pointing fingers at people because people pointed fingers at you.

I'm still surprised at how willingly you supported my claim this early and as a consequence of my initial play. I feel you're some sort of ninja pushing and supporting for my lynch/claim, with T-blok and Pierce being the vocal ones and you just agreeing/supporting them without much further addition but your meta on my different play style (Shaya is like the same btw but without even the meta). We've only played twice, Chrono Trigger which was my 1st game (and you should know you can't expect me to play like that again), and Mario Kart which was my 5th game, and this is my 11th. You make it sound like we've played tons of times.

As I said earlier, I wasn't vocal about your claim/lynch because I was waiting for you to become vocal. Then when you finally came back instead of giving a solid analysis about what happened in the game regarding everyone you only gave a weak push towards anyone who voted you. You either have a scum read or a null read on everyone who pressured you, but isn't it interesting that you don't have a single town read on any of those players?

Rajam, stop being lazy.

Do you actually have any kind of opinion or output on player's that were not on your wagon? Because if you don't you -really- need to die and/or claim because you've simply become the epitome of OMGUS.

 

[Omni]

I feel like I haven't talk to you much, Omni.

Have you had the chance to view my posts? Are they really as bad as Pierce, Hilt, and T-Block made them out to be?

And EBWOP: I meant to say the bomb role that MrEh claimed back in BBRM, Sorry about that.

i'll be honest, dude. i haven't really analyzed your post too much. i've been very focused on other players (shaya, hilt, utd, rajam, chibo, and rr) and you haven't been saying anything that strikes me as a huge flag. or maybe it's cuz i haven't seen a strong enough argument against you. regardless, i figure since ur new if you're scum you're gonna leave a nice trail anyway so i can worry about that later

im looking for a person to hold hands with. and im looking for stronger players that i know about to exhibit that 'i am clearly obv town' aura which Hilt seems to be displaying the most next to Raziek with a side of Chibo

 

[Omni]

also

hilt, i really want at least one claim before we push for an official lynch. do not want us pushing one person who ends up claiming doc with no cc and then left scattering for a substitute lynch.

right now i'm fine with rajam, rr, and utd dying/claiming.
pierce is fine. chibo is fine. you're fine. raziek is fine. t-block is fine.
dunno about krys. dunno about pado.
still scared of shaya.

oh, i almost forgot

@Tin Man: did you read the entire Day 1 yet? if/when you have your thoughts on the game would be uber awesome

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@Omni: I mean lynching me vs Rajam, why do you think he thinks this so much at this point? If Rajam flips scum would you suspect Hilt?

Also,

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=295824

Fire Emblem Mafia where I was scum, other is Upick1 one but that is in Disco Room which I don't think you can view.

 

[Pierce7d]

I definitely agree with Hilt right now that we should start speculating what the play for today is going to be. While I can't specifically nail RR as scum (obv, it's day 1, there's still little to go off of), I still think he's one of the best plays for today.

I find it amusing that Rajam thought I was scummy for pressuring him, even though most of my posts have been accusatory of Red Ryu and Krystedez. So what? To not be scummy, was I supposed to not think you were scummy at all? Not buying it still. He still has yet to do any scum hunting outside of OMGUS accusations.

Pado has been AWFULLY quiet.

 

[Pierce7d]

If it were up to me, I'd force the claim on RR today. Shall we vote on it? Discussion is slowing down, and this can help us make something productive of our day (obviously)

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I want to lynch Rajam at this point since he refuses to claim in any shape or form.

 

[Padô]

OK. After reading and Re-reading all the Rajam discussions and stuff around it, god... I feel BAD about the situation because everything we got from Rajam posts just gets dismissed by him saying "RVS, RVS, RVS...". We are not getting anything concrete from him right now, everything we can say about him is: He's useless so far, he missled town and created a ****load of WIFOM which makes discussion even more hard, specially on Day1 where we pretty much pull things out of no where.

I don't have a list about who's scummier or not so far everything I can write down is a USELESS/NOSENSE list:

Red Ryu
Rajam

Not saying everyone has contributed that much (not even me) but those 2 are the most noticeable ones that ****ed up towns start in the game. The bad thing about it is that we can't be sure they are Mafia so lynching them is not a 100% sure Mafia lynch but, it would still be good for town since we would kill missleading people. And, hell, how much time and posts have we spent on those 2 and figured out NOTHING? It's dumb to keep pressuring them, we should either lynch one of them right way or focus on other people like UTD Zac or whoever do we find out scummy.

I'm still not sure about unvoting Rajam, his answers to all questions didn't make me step back on the idea of lynching him, TBH I believe his answers were not convincing at all, but, at least he started to post like a damn human being.

About Red Ryu, I could easily switch my vote to him, a lot of people have stepped back on the idea but, I believe he took so much of towns time to figure out absolutely NOTHING which is pretty bad.

Following my thought process... I'm giving up on those two. I got enough from them to lynch them if we(town) believe it's worth it I'd still do it, but, from now on, I'll be focusing more on other players posts instead of losing my time and efforts with those two.

Why I'm telling all this you guys might ask yourselves? Well... I've been MIA for 5 days, I believe you guys might wanna know something from me since then, so I'm posting this.

 

[Padô]

Ninja'd by Pierce LOL

 

[Pierce7d]

I want to lynch Rajam at this point since he refuses to claim in any shape or form.

We have not asked Rajam to claim yet. Can you show me where Rajam has stated he's refusing to claim?

 

[Padô]

If it were up to me, I'd force the claim on RR today. Shall we vote on it? Discussion is slowing down, and this can help us make something productive of our day (obviously)

I'm 100% up to this.

We should either force RR or Rajam to claim toDay.

 

[Omni]

@Omni: I mean lynching me vs Rajam, why do you think he thinks this so much at this point? If Rajam flips scum would you suspect Hilt?

nah i dont think i'd suspect Hilt. it does bother me that Hilt isn't addressing Rajam's severe OMGUS'ing and kinda brushing it off. and it also makes sense given Rajam's character for him to not have any analysis or view on Hilt because Hilt isn't in agreeance with his wagon.

frankly, rr, i'd be all over you moreso than hilt if i hadn't already received two lashings from you with your town play being somewhat similar. i would be more aggressive rather than passive with my push on you but im trying to be cautious just because of my personal dealings with you, but not completely gullible nor blind. deeming your natural play as "automatically anti-town" doesn't give u the free pass to just... be anti-town or scummy looking. and im sure Hilt has picked that up from your play

 

[Rajam]

I refuse to claim. Stated that earlier.

RR you're just being a ninja too. What are your points against me?

 

[Pierce7d]

Rajam refuses to claim? Aight, we lynching him, lol. Clearly, he does not know how to play town.

 

[Omni]

hey rajam are you refusing to answer other people's questions, and rather instead, just asking your own?

u seem to think that the wagon on you has 0 merit. which is ********. and you've yet to give an analysis of the game outside of players on your wagon.

its getting mad annoying really fast

 

[Pierce7d]

And he's refusing to claim -__-. I've never even heard of this play before, and I'd feel very uncomfortable not lynching him at this point. Who refuses to claim?

 

[Omni]

also pado that was a good post. you expressed a lot of my thoughts in it

 

[Rajam]

I think it's pretty clear that I think scum is on my wagon, and hence I'm been mostly focused on those players.

@Krystedez: when did I say you were scummy?? I said the opposite; I think you're town

The only other player I consider town so far is Hilt