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If Rajam flips Geno, Town Tracker, or something, I'm going to facepalm so hard. I think it's better to take in the information one piece at a time. We can always have him full claim after he name claims, to see if just the name doesn't check out, but once he full claims, he can't go back.
any other alternative to what? Rajam claiming two days into D1? Because a good alternative to that would be... maybe claiming later in the day?
what
Likely? Seems like you feel he's the only option.About as awkward as pushing for a claim two days into D1.
While how I worded this interaction previously was kinda iffy, I'll reiterate.
Rajam wagon reached a critical point. While it seems some are okay with lynching him now, I'd rather not straight away. However, it seems to me you think dropping a wagon without anything conclusive is okay? I posted that prior to rajam stating "IT WAS ALL RVS, NONE OF THAT WAS BREADCRUMBING, TROLLOLOLOL".
I find it hard to communicate with you about this because there feels like a time gap in what you've read / are aware of. You also really haven't stated a real opinion about Rajam's play at this point either. Who else is on your mind Hilt? You have a lightly veiled defence for Rajam going on here, which could easily be denied as protocol at the moment with what you've said up to this point. While I accept tornado johns, I wouldn't like it if you continued coasting.
@Pierce: What do you mean if the name can check out? If Rajam claims idk... Toad, for example, then where does that leave us assuming it is a safe claim? Right where we started
@Pierce: What do you mean if the name can check out? If Rajam claims idk... Toad, for example, then where does that leave us assuming it is a safe claim? Right where we started
But no further back than where we were before. If he claims Toad and no one counter claims, then we can always force a full claim, but we KNOW he's not a guaranteed town role. We can then force a full claim out of him at that point.
What if he does indeed claim Mallow? If no one counter claims, I'd rather not have Mafia knowing what his power is. They already know who is Town (or at least, who ISN'T Mafia) so I'd rather not add to their tactical advantage.
Essentially, I'm saying 1 check at a time. Name claim, and if it doesn't check out, THEN Full Claim, and I think that should be the standard for this game. Toad is a likely safe claim and warrants further investigation. Geno is 99% likely to be in the game, and if there's no counter claim, then it's pretty safe to just believe he's town based off that.
If he claims Geno, and no one counter claims Geno, that confirms him Town in my eyes, and I don't want Mafia to know what he's capable of.
Well, Hilt. I am not scum, but I do want Rajam to claim. Mind you, only name claim (not roleclaim, because Mafia can use that info more than us by far). I am not objecting to it possibly being better for him to claim later in the day, but I do think we are awfully distracted by the Rajam issue right now.
I don't understand why a name claim would be beneficial. It doesn't serve the pupose a claim is suppose to. When someone's put up to the chopping block, claiming is the last resort. "No guys! Don't lynch me, I'm the doctor!" kind of says something. If there's no counterclaims, and the person's claim fits the bill, we can lynch the second best option (assuming there is one available) and make better use of the few lynches we have at our disposal. What does a name claim do for us? "No guys! Don't lynch me, I'm Mario!" Well what does Mario do? What's his alignment? The role can't be counterclaimed, because nobody knows what it does, and mafia members almost always have safe claims. What purpose is a name claim on Day 1?
But no further back than where we were before. If he claims Toad and no one counter claims, then we can always force a full claim, but we KNOW he's not a guaranteed town role. We can then force a full claim out of him at that point.
You're moving under the assumption that scum can't have main character claims, and you're making this assumption solely based on flavor and what you think of the game.
This is what you need to be doing. I've played in Final Fantasy Mafia where Cloud, the main protagonist, was scum. I've played in games where scum was given the main good guy character as a safe claim. In Mario Kart Mafia, my scum safe claim was Luigi.
Do NOT try to predict and choose what safe claims are more scummy and which ones means the person is more likely to be town. The whole point is to IGNORE the flavor and only focus on solid information that can proven; not make scum judgments calls on non-confirmed predictions.
Rajam lost his tactical advantage when he played the most anti-town game I've seen from a player early game in a long time. Unless you tell me you're cool if he claims Mario then all is forgiven then I'mma need you to think outside the box.
RR and UTD are the main ones. Ryu has a habit of pulling crap out of nowhere when he needs an escape. Whenever he finds himself caught in a lie, or realizes that he did something that's going to give him a lot of heat, he immediately searches for a way out. A reason he can come up with that will serve well enough as an excuse. The situation in the beginning with T-Block, him joking around with the Rebecca Black nonsense, his recent "sarcasm" excuse for his reasoning of Zig/Chibo being his ideal scum partners.
And as of late, almost all of his posts have consisted him responding to people's opinions on him and giving light, short, and easy stances.
I've already said what I have to say about UTD, and my opinion hasn't changed. Looking forward to hearing from him after his return.
Other players that are "on my mind" are Kyrstedez and Pierce. I would say that I would do a reread on Krys, but I would be lying. His posts are far too long for me to expect anyone to read more than once, or even easily take in all of what he has to say. It's rather annoying. Not as bad as Ampharos was though, haha. Anyways, Pierce and Krys are two players that have made posts that haven't set well with me. Going to be looking at them more in the near future. And while I can't necessarily explain it, Pierce's play just seems off... maybe awkward is a better word. I'm not sure.
Krys, forgive me if you have, but did you ever respond to this post? I sure hope I'm not being ignored.
Also, just to jump out on a limb... Krystedez, why were you the one contacted about Zigsta's incident? I'm surprised nobody else brought this up. I noticed that CloverLeaf was the one to relay the information to the moderators, but don't know why Zig would have, whomever this situation's messenger is, give the word to you specifically, instead of the game's moderator. Not something I'm going to jump too hard on, but I would definitely like to hear your input on this.
As for my opinion on Rajam, I am fine letting him live, mostly due to Ryu being a much better candidate. One main difference in the two. While both got a lot of heat for apparently "trolling" town for longer than one should expect to, Ryu's play afterwards did not go anywhere. Rajam gave mostly solid posts, responding to points that should be responded to, in ways I would expect someone to respond in. Ryu remained shady and unreliable. I believe Rajam will not lead town in circles, or be a distraction. Ryu is the play. He's yet to prove that he will be of use to town. And after his shenanigans in the beginning of the day, that is something very important to prove.
Noticing repetition in something someone does in multiple games, based on alignment, is one thing. However, someone doing something new, when compared to their previous playstyles, is usually a null tell for me. It very well could be them playing a different alignment, perhaps one they're not as comfortable with. It could be the person playing a power role in the way they think it should be played (such as the way a miller should play, when compared to, say, a cop). Or it could merely be someone trying something new. Not that extreme lack of consistency should be ignored, though. But this is a lot lower on the chart for me, when it comes to scummy behavior. But I'm usually not much for digging into meta.
As promised, here's the case I'm building on Krystedez. I took the liberty of quoting every single post he's made so far, and I noticed a few funny things about other people during the reread that I overlooked before, but I'll get to that later.
I'll collapse this post, into separate segments as I'm sure it will be stupidly long. I'm not done yet. About halfway done. I have work soon, and I have to get going. I'll continue to post from my phone as the game progresses, but I won't visit this again until I get back to a computer. This progress I've made alone took over 2 hours.
Also, I guess I'll mention here that I'd rather Rajam Full Claim than not claim at all for sure.
[Collapse=Early Stages Were Totally Full of Flavor]
Sorry I took a while to get in on the action guys, was pretty busy yesterday and got up late today. /confirmed. whatever.
I've only played one. I was a mafia goon; Shaya. I didn't have any special powers besides my Mafia ability for the flavor of that game.
Everyone says how much OS's games rock. Why is that? Not that I'm complaining, I'm loving the flavor so far.
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I think Pierce and Hilt would by mine. Pierce hates mafia. Hilt loves mafia. And these two are the only ones out of the cast I've met in real life.
Oh. I'd pick OS for the same reason, too, if he were actually playing this game.
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If you mean from the game itself, I think it would be obvious; the main characters that you played through the game as selectable characters would be pro-town: Mario, Mallow, Toadstool, Bowser, and Geno. I think the latter two could possibly have separate factions.
Everyone else that are toads or yoshis or friendlies like Frogfucius, etc... would be town.
Baddies would be likely to be town or seperate faction if they're aligned with Bowser.
There's a lot of different possibilities for the scum, but there's obviously someone pretending to be the overlord (Exor). Smithy would be behind the scenes; there's plenty of chances that the true overlord of the weapon-army himself would simply be invisible or something until Exor dies. But I digress. This is all conjecture based on my fanboyism of the game XD
And oh god the Axem Rangers have to be in here, if not at least one or two of them being Indys. I think that's a fair assumption. But then, they ARE Smithy aligned... Hmm... I don't know.
Definitely Booster is a !@#$ing Indy, that crazy *** dude. If he's masoned with anyone it's Toadstool lol.
And then there's Bowyer... insane dude that role BLOCKS PEOPLE!!!
Yardovich is a pro mafiascum. IF he's a role in this game, it's intense as !@#$, because he can disguise himself....
So I'm seeing this for 13 people
Possible Pro Town Characters:
Mario
Mallow
Toadstool
Bowser
Geno
Yoshi(s) / Boshi for coolness
Frogfucius
Possible Pro Mafia Characters:
Yardovich
Exor
Smithy
Possible Indy Characters:
Bowyer
Booster
Axem Ranger(s)
Possible Mayor or someone that dictates Town... (reset vote count?)
Chancellor
That's all I think right now.
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Red Ryu seems to be letting on some sorta insanity role or something, in my head. Unless he's just being FRIDAY ITS FRIDAY FRIDAAAAY silly or something. It makes me think he might be scum simply because of the setup I described above. Bowyer. Mafia Roleblocker.
FoS: Red Ryu
I'm not inclined to vote for him though, I'm more interested in the response adhered to his accusations and behavior, since I'm not quite out of that RVS mindset yet.
Now, the first time when I drilled, I focused mainly on the flavor overload this post gives. I completely ignored the fact that Krystedez was suspicious of Red Ryu before any of us, all the way back in RVS, before RR's play was distracting or an issue. If Red Ryu flips town, I'd call this fishing, and a minor scum tell.
To be fair, OS probably made this flavor just so we COULD speculate about roles for fun. If what he says is true that no one gets just regular ol' town vanilla, there is a lot to be had on the discussion table when it comes to role claims later. WIFOM won't be nearly as prevalent later down the road with such concrete evaluations of the game's cast.
In the end though I do agree that the question did not lead into anything interesting other than that, and doesn't help us on our little own way. If Chibo would like to evaluate some sort of read out of the situation down the road later based on agreed-upon faction-listings and such, then so be it. I at least answered Omni's question first, and found it to be interesting; but what does everyone's specific scum-buddy choices have to do with us getting out of RVS?
And I saw that Omni. Chibo wagon doesn't have cookies. The wagon doesn't exist.
Still speculating on Flavor even after both Omni and I said, "Whoa, too much flavor". Normally I'd associate this with noob town, but when I did that on Krystedez' first game, he flipped scum, so my meta is telling my gut not to label him noob town so quickly.
He is correct that Flavor fishing is likely to provide some good information, but I don't want scum to get ahold of all that useful information, as if they didn't have a monopoly on it already.
If you say so. It looks to be that way, but I want to see the votecount. I haven't voted yet because I haven't seen any slips or information that would lead me to a good read yet. I'm also contemplating what to do when I have an exam tomorrow, thursday, and friday... UGGGGHH...
@ Omni
T-block and RR are speaking about stuff I know nothing about, as far as past games go. I am very suspicious of RR simply because of his jumpyness in general. But other than that he might be WANTING the attention for whatever reason.
I don't know if you skipped over this or just felt it wasn't relevant, Pierce. In any case, I won't waste time "defending" flavor-talk any further, like I've stated. I was just trying to be fair, and I like speculating about a game I've probably played about a million times. Kay? Dropping this.
In any case, I came back not just to show you that, but I wanted to also say I'm particularly interested in these things:
UTDZ: Why do you think Chibo is NOT indie? What evidence persuades you to think this way?
Chibo: I know no more than you do about the situation about RR and T-B. Should I be reading any more into this?
Rajam: You've officially given me a reason to vote for someone, but people already have you on blast. What the heck?
Pierce: You think I'm scum because of previous gameplay or this gameplay? We're not even halfway into toDay yet and you're already putting me in ranks of Rajam and Red Ryu, based on "Well, I had him as dumb town last time, not gunna make the same mistake this time!"...
Isn't that... what is it called... playing too much based on previous games? Especially my first game? Forgive me, I can't recall all the mafia terms... What is it, meta-ing?
When I pressure him, he says "Dropping this" as if he no longer feels obligated to reply to the pressure. Not particularly townish IMO.
Question to Zac is obvious, but at least actually Townish.
Question to Chibo is defensive AND asking for direction, scummy
Question to Rajam is wagony. Null
Question to me is noobish, but he also says I'm putting him "in the ranks of Rajam and Red Ryu". I did not compare him to either of these players, and I found them both far more scummy. I don't remember if this is before or after I said that I felt Krystedez' play was more naturally, subtly scummy, as opposed to RR and Rajam's play being obnoxiously bad.
@Pierce: Fair enough. As long as I know when and where to pay attention to meta.
I'm currently semi-deprived of that luxury/experience, since I don't see any of the games you guys have played in before. I could look at the way we all played in BBRM aside from Omni, T-Block, and Rajam, and somewhat you (Pierce), and Shaya, since those of you were either replaced in or were not in BBRM altogther.
I'd like to see what Hilt's opinion is of the current situation. I want to ask him a question, but I'll let him catch up. Gotta finish up the rest of my studying anyways.
Learns about Meta a little bit, says he cannot use it due to experience, then targets Hilt, who I believe just came back at this point. Reasonable to want to target the inactive, but his play seems . . . unfocused.
What about that "super secret" boss in SMRPG, that is a FF-esque character? He was made specifically by Square for that game I believe. I could be wrong. I know he doesn't say Kupo. But... an underling might...
*shrugs* I don't know much about those creatures tho, and whether or not they'd serve some fantasy entity in a mario game... It's a possibility though.
@RR, sorry, did I let on that I was sure of any of those flavor-reads? I'm not. But it's a likely scenario.
I wasn't obsessed with Bowyer, either, it's just the way you're talking makes me think it's possible that you are actually playing along with the insanity of a character who's flavor you received. But that's just roleplaying, and not mafia, and I realize that. So it's likely just you being... well... you.
Plus the flavor talk was sorta shot down (though I do love talking about it because it's freaking SMRPG, come on, I'd make a fanfic based on this game if I had time!)
EBWOP: And I realize that I just re-entered the game to do more flavor talk, so before you guys rush me down with that; I'm tired, and can't come up with a response to anything too extensively. I don't have any reads at the moment, and I have an exam tomorrow afternoon. Bare with me, I'll come back with some better inclination to scumhunt tomorrow hopefully.
Underling, someone that probably serves that optional crystal boss monster. I highlighted it just for emphasis, maybe thinking he is an underling to another character like that, and the only ones that could possibly say kupo are moogles, and they known for their menial and joint objectives with the player or in-game npcs/services. However, all of this is speculation and argueably useless flavor talk, but it might help to know what the heck he is breadcrumbing like a mad bat-mole here. No known character in RPG is actually moogle. So I digress.
I'd like to think that he was just being random. Like I do sometimes, putting faces or joking around. Or maybe he said kupo, because he may very well be Culex himself. He may very well be scum or seperate-faction-aligned, because Culex did not have a passion to destroy anyone or anything, but simply to do a certain Dark Mage's bidding: conquering their world. HOWEVER...
Speculation speculation speculation. I'm done.
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I agree with Pierce on the walking into a trap thing, I mean, it's looking again way too obvious who the lynch targets are, and there are good ways of detecting a lynch target. We just haven't found the right method yet. Obviously my speculation is easier to type than simply looking at each and every post with a fine-tooth comb, but I will probably end up doing that tonight as a way to release stress from how horrible I'm going to do my test in about an hour, so... hah...hahahaa... So prepare yourselves.
Nope, just more flavor talk. He's almost mocking us by saying, "Hey look, I'm still talking about flavor. What are you going to do about it?" If you realize that you're thinking about flavor too much, then why even put it in your post when people are trying to make legitimate reads and post scum. This is called BEING DISTRACTING. SCUM TELL. It honestly looks like you're trying to be obnoxiously distracting and cover it up by being nonchalant and noobish about it. You're also being parrotish, and buddying me.
You seem like you realize your flavor talk is getting old, so you switch to informing us about details in your life and talking more about playing mafia than actually spending any time building cases or scum hunting. Even in my noobiest days, I was not half this distracting.
My opinion may be null because I'm incapable of retracting from my flavor-talk until I read every post over again. I'm literally so damn lost because of how much distraction both Rajam and RR have caused, but I'm also warey from the immediate pressure you've given. Now RR's "parroting" you and has a bit of control on his behavior (I use control lightly).
BUT. I honestly think we'd get some clues as to what's going on if we simply ripped RR out of the picture. He's probably doing it to WIFOM, not so much bait. Rajam is playing the bait card to me moreso than RR is. I could be wrong though.
We either push RR down altogether or we just ignore him altogether. Pado suggest ignore by his post. I suggest we push. RR is definitely pushing for a lynch on Rajam but doesn't want to be the one that put him at L-1. That's definitely scummy to me, and I'd rather not take someone to near-end game that is showing this much craziness... Even if it is fun to him, he's gotta admit, just like I have, when you're doing something wrong and fix it. I do like that he started to become more serious, but I'm not a fan of this "list" thing either of you have done. It really isn't very helpful, more than specific stances and reads. Take one, and you create insight. Take all, and you create chaos.
My opinion(s) may change as I re-read the thread tonight. I'm in the process of trying to figure out what the heck Rajam is up to.
I ALSO would really like it if Hilt would post soon, it might help get a look at the bigger picture much sooner.
Question: Why is it that you agree with this from Raziek specifically? I think there's been a few who have said this "He's definitely got a post-restriction". I don't have exact posts of who have said it so far, just wanted to know if there was a reason with agreeing with Raziek.
Also, OS, it would be helpful for a vote-count now... How do I do it... Bold... um...
Wait, so let me get this straight. You're incapable of stopping from being a distraction from town until you do a FULL REREAD OF THE GAME, because other people are being too distracting to town? What is this, I don't even . . .
Then you're like, wait umm, OH YEAH, put more pressure on Red Ryu! That's what Pierce is doing! I'm not sure if you're buddying me or something, but like, wtf.
Then it just gets weird. You start . . . defending Rajam in the same post. Red Ryu is weary of a quick lynch (tbh, not that big of a deal on Day 1 IMO. The reason Quick Lynch is a viable tactic is because when you do it in LYLO it ends the game. When you do it on Day 1, it just labels you as scum for hammering without the consent of town.)
You say you don't want to take Red Ryu's craziness deep into the game, but you defend Rajam . . .
You question my very innocent post on the read I'm beginning to get from Red Ryu (which was him misleading us -_-)
Zigsta, I have a specific yes or no (or in this case, either/or) question for you, to help keep you in the loop and help me address people as well.
Is Omni playing a more town-like play to you or a more scum-like play to you?
T-Block, what is your choice of lynch decision here? Is there any purpose to going after Rajam right away before knowing anything? Pressure is good. But I'm thinking Admiral Akbar the entire time we've wtf'd at his posts moreso than RR.
Red Ryu, I'm near inclined to ignore Rajam completely more than you. Is there any specific reason you can tell us why we should just play along with your antics? (in reference to Pado's statement)
You ask Zigsta (mighty random target) a question to "help keep him in the loop" but your last post, you just said that you were having trouble keeping up with the game, and couldn't even hunt properly without your reread. I know this is before your reread, because you stated it at the beginning of the post.
Also, why is it that you want to completely ignore one of the two most scummy players in the game right now? That smells scummy to me. Acting indecisive about which seems like a cover, and the fact that you land on Red Ryu seems even more suspicious. If Red Ryu flips town, and Rajam flips scum, I'm very much going to think that you are scum.
Also, what is "vote bait"? No one wants to get lynched, except a Jester, to which we have been assured there are none. While I definitely think there's something fishy going on here, I'm more inclined to think that we should lynch through this WIFOM to find out what's going on, than simply be scared and do nothing.
The only person who would want to draw votes away from scum is . . . scum.
Unless it's a role designed to protect a specific player, but that's unlikely, and way too WIFOMy for my tastes.
I've been thinking that Rajam has been setting a trap since his very first post. Sure, it can be read as a random item or maybe vote-bait/scum-slip-bait, but I think he's really building something here more than that.
I don't think RRR wants to be lynched. He's just setting up major WIFOM to confuse town since we moved out of RVS quite smoothly thanks to the efforts of a few guys. I still have little to go on right now though, gunna read more soon. Got a class and then goin home finally to really read.
Zig,I was more adamant about defending my emotional play and such in BBR Mafia because of it being my first game and people targeting me, so I was glad that Pierce was somewhat convinced that I was noob town. This game, if he thinks I'm scum, then he's being smart from previous meta, but I know I have nothing to hide and have no reason to defend myself for mistakes I've already made so early; I apologized and apologize yet again for the flavor attention... Hence why I'm going to go through some major case-reading, and the proof shall be in the pudding tonight to hopefully lead us to a good lynch decision.
As for RRR's accusation, I don't really know how I feel.
RRR is Rebecca Red Ryu
Pierce; I was curious. Thanks for answering. I was also confused because I generally thought Rajam was the one popular for being the "post restriction" person. I now am officially more confused. More later. *scoots to class*...
So you think Rajam wants us to vote for him, and so we SHOULDN'T vote for him? Hmm . . . anyone else smell that delicious vintage wine?
Wait, and then you say exactly the opposite about Red Ryu? That he's WIFOMing the hell out of us so we SHOULDN'T lynch him? How does this make sense at all?
and by "I don't think RRR wants to be lynched" I mean he isn't setting up a bait so that people vote for him, he's setting up WIFOM so people DON'T vote for him and ignore him.
Which is where my next question shoulda came:
Pado, why are you so sure RRR is baiting us? What about Rajam?
So, you're still making large posts, this time being straight up WIFOMy, and still haven't done that reread . . . which you feel is so very necessary to hunt scum. Also, you questioned my usage of meta before, and now you're saying "I'm being smart". Changing your mind on game tactics so easily and fully is noobish, but like I said, I'm extremely hesitant to just label you noob town at this point.
Then you just get more confusing by tossing up Rajam and RR again, and I feel drunk with all this Wine In Front of Me.
What, the, heck? Why would Rajam's random voting prelude you to think that he was lethal scum. Actually, better question than that even: what scum qualifies as "Not lethal"?
[/collapse]
[Collapse= Boss like distractions really begin. Enter: HUGE EMPTY POSTS]
Okay. Let's start from the beginning. This is interesting because the RVS phase was the most non RVS I've ever witnessed. Evar.
Red Ryu. First Person to post anything relevant to the start of Day 1. First to vote. First to move into RVS. Pay attention to this.
Near immediately after, Rajam posts; an odd question indeed, and no one bothered messing with it except UTDZ.
@Raz, What does "chainsaw defense" even mean? I'd like Raz's comment here. Is this a term I'm not familiar with apart of RVS voting, or did you mean anything by this? Even with the :trollface:, I'm just curious. Serious.
After Omni asks new players (TO HIM) about their mafia experience, we have...
Again, near immediately if not exactly the same time (12:26 yesterday EST time) they post, apart from anyone else at this point on the page. Maybe STP (same time posting) isn't that relevant, could be coincidence, or it could simply be reaction time and seeing posts updated right in front of you. But it's a trend nonetheless. Be picky about this analysis if you wish, I'm not finished. Continuing on...
Rajam had asked an odd question, to continue the RVS banter, but UTDZ did legitimately answer him. So... Why did he say he evaded his question and subsequently voted "randomly" for him? Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but this is just getting too weird. RRR is in full force from here on out with his distracting behavior. If not for the fact that he had not posted about being Godbecca numerous times after this, this all could have been taken as a joke. But no, he uses it as a crutch for his entire play here on out. It's gotten frankly tiring, and requires justification, or he isn't going to last long. It's all WIFOM to me honestly, and I honestly don't like it.
Seeking QL opportunity? At RVS?
The...point of this post... To reiterate his Godbecca powers? Oh my, Flying Spaghetti Monster rules a SMRPG mafia game!... gimme a break.
Oh, and again, near STPing. by like 2 minutes. Guh.
@ T-Block: I was confused here. Are you sure you meant Raz? What was the reasoning behind you thinking Raziek was a top scum pick? Hardly anyone at this point so early in the game was attempting to move out of RVS except for Omni. I think T-block should have just simply re-read the question or just asked Omni to reiterate it. I thought it to be quite clear. Being a loaded question is another story in itself though, and depends majorly on Omni's usage of the question in the past. Has it helped him as scum before?
More random *** voting with no intention to put substance in his posts. I was surprised no one really said anything here specifically. It's clear here that Rajam has only the intentions to draw town to himself without acting WIFOMy like RRR.
Answered this lead to nothing interesting, except now a few people are inclined to believe that I was distracting them.
But let me make my point here though; in what way was Chibo's question justified here beyond mere speculation? Wouldn't it have been more appropriate to keep his thoughts to himself, rather than making me talk flavor and get all into it like the fanboy I am? Now I feel like Chibo was setting me up for that "useless" junk. Although I may not be mad that he got me to speculate, it makes me wonder what Chibo's true intentions were for this post, and it sort of got me in a predicament I didn't like to be in before I could even make these observations. But it's something now to go on. I don't know how to read Chibo now, and he's been coasting, but we'll get back to that.
I honestly think that if Chibo was playing a scum game, he's using this post as a good way for looking for potential lynch targets that would blabber off too much, and starting off with the over-zealous people from the beginning is a good start. Now, why was it me, after Raz? (yes I know Pierce asked you this, but not framed in the same way as I'm framing it) Why not Rajam? Or Pierce? They both said how much they liked SMRPG before I got to post.
FoS: Chibo.
I want to know your real intentions behind the initation of the flavor talk. I have no "scum" feeling from you near as much as with RRR and Rajam, but just laying the line down here on how I feel about you. Moving on.
I agree with this. I've been feeling a major town vibe from Omni since we started, and his question was pretty well-framed.
@Omni, What I want to know is how you can use this information, and not just town at that point. Thoughts here? Has the question helped you formulate anything about the players thus far?
T-block answers now, confirming that he had misread the question and coming down from his stance that it wasn't a good question to him. Change of heart perhaps because he is hiding something? In any case, he put himself in this position by misreading the question, so it's forgivable.
SERIOUSLY. Look at these STPs. This freaks me the hell out. And this is where RRR officially has taken the godbecca tangent where no one has gone before D: Rajam is officially on the hunt for someone to c-claim against, hmmmmmmmmmm.....
Seriously. I'm laughing for real right now. It's ironic because Rajam's posts are filled with nothingness. And then replaced with stupid when you read them a second time.
I don't know a whole lot about the Pokemon Mafia debacle, and though not entirely relevant to my reads right now, only this part strikes me as intriguing.
Red Ryu supported his accusation, but rather weakly. He is using meta that can not be confirmed or deconfirmbed, on either side, by all members of this game right here and now, especially considering T-Block's response being a direct contradiction. Red flags by Red Ryu don't necessarily mean a Read. That's all I can say right now about that situation.
notice how I called him RR now. He lives!
So Omni, town director (just kidding ) suggests we slow down which is all fine and dandy. But here's something caught my eye (which I'm sure some of you were already familiar with)
I'm not taking this out of context when I say this but... This seems like Omni is trying to seem nice.. Like, he's reminding me of...well... ME, from BBRM. Trying to stay on good terms with everyone he's spoken with so far, and waiting for more responses is a good excuse to. Even this early in the game, I feel like that if you have experience in mafia and know what you're doing, you can start formulating a stance to be on, even if it's flimsy or you don't want to hurt someone's feelings this early or something.
I'm not saying you KNOW it's a TvT scenario though, Omni, so don't get this wrong, but I am saying you're trying to make those around you feel better with them knowing you don't expect them yet... Just a thought.
Finally I post, and though it's not that relevant... I'll link to it anyways, with the most relevant part.
"dont kill me guys, seriously, i'm rebecca black, but i dont care if you guys kill me, im rebecca black "
Seriously, that's how I've been feeling about RRR since the game started. RR on the other hand seems to post coherently and make good attempts at painting targets in the next phase...
This is the longest post I've ever seem in Mafia that somehow managed to not persuade my opinion about anybody in the game at all whatsoever. In a nutshell, you did a weak analysis of the RVS (while drawing nothing relevant from it), then you FOSed Chibo for a legitimately good reason (let's see if you stick to that), you question Omni but put virtually no pressure on him, you put emphasis on STPs, in a very active game, and you parrot what has been said over the last 100 posts before yours.
Did anyone at all gain any insight from this post? I sure didn't.
Rajam is leaving behind a lot of information in his posts and not answering enough to pressure. Ironically, he wants pressure built on others between themselves. This shines light on my opinion that Rajam is not only possibly ADVOCATING these TvT situations, but he's also making himself a possible target for speculation that would create a trap.
I alluded to this earlier; it may very well be a pseudo-jester situation that would NOT make the game end if we lynched him but... do something terrible to the person(s) that hammered him, like a real bomb. It's possible that the p-jester(s), when knocked out, benefit mafia in some way as well. How else would someone fit our favorite crazies, the twin jesters Knife and Grate guy, in this game, without ACTUALLY having a real game-jester? Reduce their roles to only being helper roles and not self-serving factions, and you've got an interesting Mafia power.
The other jester most likely gets the most non-jester like power, and thus acts as a distraction.
Later down the road you see the c-claim breadcrumb from Rajam (remember that c-claim notation I made earlier?), in order to throw off suspicion IMO that RRR and Rajam are linked -V
He(Rajam) wants people to see that he has no affilliation with him (RR) by proposing counter-claiming RR later, (unless I'm reading this wrong) and he (RR) wants people to know that he's willing to put a vote on Rajam... but not hammer or be close to hammering him.
@both Rajam and Red Ryu. Why. Is. That?
Believe it or not, take it or leave, flavour speculation or not, if you hadn't noticed, I've been referring to RRR AS RRR for not just because he's being Rebecca Red Ryu, but possibly because he's affiliated with another R... Rajam...
Before anyone asks, I don't think Raziek has anything to do with RRR. No relation, a popular two cartoony bunnies once said.
@Red Ryu again, can you explain any of these occurences and trends? What is the deal with you near STPing with Rajam at certain intervals? And yes, I know STPs are not as relevant as the rest of the interaction between you two, so beyond that, why is it that you both seem the most connected right now?
________________________
Although I think voting for Rajam and putting him anywhere near lynch count is a bad idea right now, I do agree with his unreasonable voting structure and behavior. Still, I like how your vote is pretty much an OMGUS at this point XD!
See, I sorta agree to this. I think I prodded about this earlier.
And now I'm fully understanding the concept behind this pressure you put on me in the first place Pierce. I thank you for that, because now it has lead me to believe Chibo very well have had ulterior motives for asking about flavor in the first place, especially because of (like I said before) his choice being me to ask instead of you or Rajam.
@Chibo: I may have missed it, but I don't think you answered this question Chibo. Could you help me out here? :D
Technically I think the Zig man has it down about RR. He's trying too hard to WIFOM the !@#$ out of town so that we don't vote for him but vote for the trap over there (points at Rajam).
@UTD, I like your play. I want to know. What else is in that captain's log, sir? Could you give me your opinion fully on my reads on RRR? (Red Ryu Rajam)? And what do you think about Chibo?
If you need a good spectrum on my thoughts on these players, here's how I rate it.
Town<________________>Scum
Omni. . .Chibo . . . . RRR(RedRyuRaj)
The rest of town falls between the cracks at null or close to town. With 13 players I'm assuming 3-4 our mafia and like 1 is an indy. I could be wrong.
Yeah, so this post just turns into more obvious stuff we already noticed about Rajam, and trickles back into set-up speculation. It also has more buddying with me. Normally, town players do not buddy with other town players that think they are scum. Normally, scum players buddy with town players that think they are scum, to try and alleviate pressure.
UTD makes one post, and "You like his play?" WTF
You also seem to be implying that you think Chibo is town, even though you were just suspicious of him.
This post is a mixture between Rebecca Red Ryu and Red Ryu. he makes a post coherent enough to understand and actually makes fun of his role claim like people honestly should not take it seriously. But that's just more WIFOM. I'm not buying it.
I think Shaya is on the same wavelength as myself, plus one for town here. It's not just because he's got pretty much the same sentiments before I've even posted them, but because he's got some actual evidence to show for it. OS games I know nothing about.
@Shaya, would you elaborate on those two roles, please? I'm just curious, and wonder if it would trigger some discussion/backlash from the RRR.
I'm just going to say that ... I think the mafia members wouldn't ship their own this early. I think this is pure WIFOM on specific role relation between players here. They're so obvious, it hurts, but mafia is playing this I think to BE obvious so we DON'T choose the obvious route. I'm nipping this scenario in the bud in that which we should lynch RR and leave Rajam the hell alone until we get a better grasp on the situation.
See I think this is how it is.
Rajam wants to be lynched/voted on
RRR doesn't.
Rajam posts to make himself lynchable, but not too Wifomy, just easy lynch bait.
RRR makes himself look really lynchable, by just using Wifom up the freaking butt.
By doing these two things, we lynch Rajam (+1 for mafia because of likely weird role that Rajam has that he wants to occur day 1) and we don't lynch RRR (+2 for mafia, because then at night 1 RRR gets to use his super secret Rebbeca-God powers to f*** s*** up!)
Not to mention mafia's kill ability (+3). Day 1. Done. We're !@#$'d.
Except not really. You're doing this on purpose! *NOW cue Dr. Obvious*...
I'd really hate to find out that you actually do end up doing something Friday... VIA RAJAM.
Another quality Shaya post. Though I'm unsure about your sentiments about Omni, you're extremely right about RR. And that's why I'm pressuring now, had to recheck all the facts though which is why I took so long.
*sigh* And this is where I truly snapped. Just a point of reference, for those wondering exactly why I wanted so badly to get facts straight and make a caase on my own interpretation of this.
Dear God this may very well be the saving grace for RR, if he can do it.
I wonder about Pierce. I think his intentions are good at heart, but my interpretation of Chibo may very well be wrong and Pierce is playing carefully now since my last reply to him. Still, he's full blown town to me. Chibo is familiar town, because of his play in BBRM play. But I'm sure that Chibo is feeling more null then Pierce is now in hindsight.
I think it was okay, but could have been executed better. I think putting his top scum picks would have been more beneficial to his cases. He was just providing a read on the current situation. I'm not sure though. He plays very organized.
o_o... You guys just...ugh... It's like you guys are two puzzle pieces... It's amazing and annoying, especially when the times are so close yet again, and it's always Rajam, then Ryu, except for the first time...
Gotta go with the classics on this one.
Um. Yeah. Except you're the perfect example of obvious bad town/scum. And Pado responds perfectly with said claim. I don't see what's so hard to get about Pado's post other than it's structure. His points are a bit off base, but so is the rest of town's I think right now. A lot of people voting on Rajam is a no-no to me right now at this point. And the fact that it's exactly what you want RR (but don't want to be the one to hammer him) is making you more of a candidate for lynching then Pado ever will be in 100, no, 1000, no OVER 9000 mafia games!
Yeah, because people like to double post and reiterate points they've made to you again. I mean, really, RR? This is the most active I've seen a mafia before. granted it's only my second, but still, look at Omni, he was wetting himself!
Anyways moving on...
Explain? EITHER of you?
I think that's what they want us to do though... And I doubt someone playing like Rajam is now is going to give a useful role claim at all.
YOU'RE A RED FLAG!!
Uggh. T-Block, seriously... You're just filled with half-finished riddles and OMGUS, aren't you? Except, you're free. Free as my grandmother's kitten puzzles. Glued together. Hung on a wall. FINISHED.
Vote: Red Ryu
And people just aren't looking at it. Le sigh.
No more delaying the inevitable.
Wow, I think this is your first vote in the whole game. Granted, I haven't done much voting myself, but I think it's odd, because first you went from saying you thought Rajam was a trap, and now you've blown that way up into saying that you think voting Rajam will somehow completely screw over town on Day 1. Well sir, if that somehow does happen, then I will apologize profusely, but in the mean time I think you're full of ****.
You also say you're skeptical of me, as if you see your buddying is not working, but you still want to keep trying it? You then let your pressure up off Chibo. Hmm . . .
EBWOP: I just want to iterate that I rechecked my posts over and over again before doing this but if you notice something odd I said or I missed something grammatically, don't feel bad for correcting me or asking me what the hell I was thinking.
I hope I didn't leap too far in logic here.
In any case, readdressing Hilt: Didn't forget you
@Hilt:
Rajam is lethal scum, in the fact that he may very well have a really good role in the Mafia faction. I no longer think he's indy now that I've fact-checked myself and found out my real intepretation of the matter.
I think Ryu is associated with Rajam in some manner, and may very well have a really good power, but not as game-breaking this early as Rajam's. Ryu may very well not even have a good power, and may just be distraction in order to live longer. He may very well work through Rajam, or may work on his own accord after Rajam is gone if we continue to push for his Lynch :/
I'm firmly believing that Rajam is connected with a faction now, so my previous stance is changed, which is why my answer was a little off and rather hasteful on my part. I was trying too hard to address people while getting my facts straight.
I hope I answered the question now more efficiently for you.
So wait, this whole time you've been saying that you want to ignore either Rajam or RR, and now you're saying you think they are scum buddies? I doubt they're BOTH scum. If neither of them are scum, it's just going to remind me why I hate playing Mafia.
And LOL, "fact checked yourself?" You're still basing this off very rookie speculation, and you are presenting this as if it is a sure thing, even though your case is based off of far-fetched ideas and parroted accusations.
[/collapse]
Red text means it could very well be irrelevant. STP's are too flimsy to rely on, due to coincidence and other factors. However the relation and connection between said posts sets me off anyways and are what matters.
I didn't stop half way. I stopped at page 17. There were no relevant posts to my read-back and I had started when the pages had reached 26. The last relevant post (that I admittedly forgot to include) in my read-back that was based around my theory around you and Rajam is this:
Page 22:
Rajam - A claim this early from someone who hasn't done anything but be a confusion for town? I think you're semi-tunneling him into revealing his role and doing it in such a way comparable to Praxis's tunneling on UTDZ I think in BBRM where he did it so hard that he didn't want people to actually do his advice. Even if Town wanted him to claim that hard, I think Rajam isn't going to claim anything useful at this point, and if he does it will be useful for mafia because it will fufill the trap I'm talking about.
You two may not have to be directly related in order for Rajam to still be a trap. Let's keep that clear here. If you want to get Rajam lynched by being the hammer then I'll drop all connections between you two. Until then I can't say I'm convinced of anything.
So the kupo role suggests he may role block and the yeti role suggests he might be masoned with someone/votes randomly near every post.
He's combined the two of these, but not necessarily staying consistent. It's most likely a bread crumb to a more ludicrous role that we haven't thought of yet. Perhaps he might be bread crumbing in this case to HELP town, but it's directed at RR, which makes me think two things:
1.) He's WIFOMing the !@#$ out of town as to relieve the idea that him and RR are connected.
2.) He's trying to reference to RR that he actually is masoned with RR but RR doesn't know
But you know... if you guys end up lynching Rajam before the day is even halfway over, then... I don't know what to say. I just hope my "reaching" wasn't all for naught... I really have a bad feeling voting Rajam off, but... if nothing changes and Rajam doesn't shake off the pressure or make us all feel any better (which role-claiming would be the last resort honestly), I'd like RR to go ahead and hammer him which he agreed. I'd RATHER you guys as a town make a decision though, and read all of my posts that suggest an RR lynch, but until Rajam posts I won't know RR's true intentions I guess.
Before I post again, let me just say this: attention everyone
Zigsta will no longer be mafia-ing with us. I just got a pm from a friend of his saying that he has to let his forearms heal for approximately 2-6 weeks...
Mod: Replacement Requested for Zigsta
(Already PM'd OS the forwarded message about this so it should be taken care of hopefully)
If RR were to flip town, my sentiments about Rajam would not change, other than him being scum mates with RR.
If RR were to hammer Rajam, and Rajam ends up turning up Scum, I would release my idea that RR is scum partnered with Rajam.
If RR were to hammer Rajam and he flips TOWN, then I'd be all "What do?" until we get more info about his role and the flavor.
If RR were to flip scum after lynching him, Id leave and ignore Rajam for the rest of the game; don't vote for him, but watch him carefully the whole game, unless we find a real p-jester or weird role that would fit him (essentially a psuedo c-claim to what Rajam APPEARS to be)
I at the very least advise we do NOT hammer Rajam but let RR do so. Right now, RR and Rajam seem to be the most clear targets.
I'm not sure about the rest of the people in this game until more discussion takes place.
I'm not trying to pad my posts... I'm trying to answer your question as well being as descriptive about my thoughts currently as possible.
I thought you asked a question that deserved more than a simple answer, and I like to explore all scenarios and let people know how I will feel, especially with the case I've made at hand. It wasn't just for you.
But I do admit that I didn't answer your question as correctly as I could have, in fact you asked me one other:
"How about any other players?" (assuming RR would flip town)
I wouldn't feel comfortable being the one who advocated for RR's lynch FIRST instead of Rajam, but I feel like the rest of the players would have plenty of reasoning to lynch RR. I wouldn't have any adverse feelings towards other townspeople unless they generally didn't have any reason to begin with to vote for RR, and wouldn't expect anyone to come down on me for trying to make a case instead of saying "oh well Rajam looks worse let's hammer him" when he clearly looks more like a trap than anything to me.
As far as him saying "oh I better hammer" to save himself, it's a win win for town and mafia I think, because they get to keep their precious Godbeccas day 1 and we get rid of Rajam, whom makes my scumdar fly off the map...
And finally, I'm saying this because I want him to hammer and I'm afraid of losing a towny over a dumb trap. If it doesn't exist, it doesn't exist, but I'd rather be careful. What difference does it make if RR hammers or only votes for Rajam in the midst of discussion? Nothing; except security for the rest of the townspeople besides RR and Rajam.
Padding my posts would be talking more about flavor... lol. I just type a lot and put everything on my mind. If that sets you off, I'm sorry, I just don't have a good grasp of how much is enough for you guys to not question me later "what do you mean, why did you underline this why did you bold that answer answer
So, essentially, you were over there (points to some random corner), making random gestures and votes, making it even easier for us to get out of RVS, since you were the only one doing it so late, but only because you thought it was still RVS?
It's like the tournament attendee that was never told we changed the venue spot in the middle of a tournament. lol.
It would also have not made me think about this whole connection between RR and Rajam.
I would like Hilt and Chibo to comment on these happenings. What is your suggested course of action? Vote up Rajam until he's ready to be hammered, then let RR hammer him? Vote off RR? Or is there someone else who's more of a candidate / a better course of action?
It wasn't supposed to blow over but make other players think before we possibly endanger ourselves. If you or anyone else actually have something specific to comment about my pressure or my logic, please do so.
He seemed powerful to me because his dropping of breadcrumbs all over the place, baits, and generally completely useless town play. I can think of a couple reasons someone factioned with mafia playing that horribly would not only want to create major WIFOM for town, but also wanted to be the lynch target; bomb/pseudo-jester/distraction.
I thought I made that clear with my recent posts, but I guess not. Unless you guys don't think this power is super good for day 1 for mafia/bad for town. Utilize RVS, play super scummy, make people WANT to off you, and boom. Town loses a member in the same turn, or worse.
I'm thinking of the worst here, okay? Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but ... I just feel like something terrible would happen if we offed Rajam without taking a clear look at everything offered to us. I especially don't want to lynch him not even a full week into Day 1 yet.
With recent posts, though, I'm guessing things will become more clear as we gain more insight from the players about the current situation.
As if you were thinking I was trying to make my posts subtle. Unless you used the wrong choice. Did you mean "His last walls of posts did not make me pleased at all"?...
In either case, I found it odd that you threw that in the middle of your comments on the situation and then went on with the rest of your post like normal. Now you have to justify what you said, and go back and make a case out of my case. On Day 1. With clear lynch subjects in front of us to figure out.
Pursue this Pierce, I'm interested in your thoughts, while we wait for more catch up from Rajam.
Take this as you will: I'm not trying to buddy with you; I'm actually trying to see what I'm doing wrong. Which is exactly why I apologized several times in-game about my flavor talk to everyone, which is exactly why I asked people to read my post and jump out at my logic.
As for Rajam's role, I've seen so many weird roles and flavors in mafia games I've read, that I honest-to-goodness felt that there might be a bomb-like role. Which is what I've felt Rajam has been. If you think that's BS, then that's just your player experience telling me that "Yeaaah no that role doesn't exist or you're crazy".
I've never, in the slightest, intended to defend Rajam. Why the hell would I want to do that? I've just been learly about quick lynching him because of the role I thought he might have to screw over town. But again, you say that's BS. Does the rest of town think that? Am I being unrealistic? AM I being scummy, wanting to ensure town's security, by either lynching one OR the other, but the other should be lynched with caution?
Those are just a few things I want you to understand. I may have been the bad guy before, and I may know the "ropes" of mafia, but I sure as hell don't know how to climb that high quite yet, especially when I'm on the town side. If you notice, I actually put a lot more effort into this game Day 1, even with flavor talk. (NOT justifying it, which is something else I will tell you now: I wasn't intending to distract town, I was ANSWERING people's questions.)
Finally. I've got a project to do, homework to finish, an appointment in 23 minutes, and a tournament tomorrow. I'll get @ the rest of this sunday evening. Good day, all.
@HILT: I could have sworn I responded to your 4 questions after you said that, and this is like the second time I've told you this. (not mad just saying.)
@Hilt:
Rajam is lethal scum, in the fact that he may very well have a really good role in the Mafia faction. I no longer think he's indy now that I've fact-checked myself and found out my real intepretation of the matter.
I think Ryu is associated with Rajam in some manner, and may very well have a really good power, but not as game-breaking this early as Rajam's. Ryu may very well not even have a good power, and may just be distraction in order to live longer. He may very well work through Rajam, or may work on his own accord after Rajam is gone if we continue to push for his Lynch :/
I'm firmly believing that Rajam is connected with a faction now, so my previous stance is changed, which is why my answer was a little off and rather hasteful on my part. I was trying too hard to address people while getting my facts straight.
I hope I answered the question now more efficiently for you.
And about Zigsta, his friend IG88 contacted me specifically to ask OS to get him replaced because of his forearms requiring rest from overuse (I know all about dat carpal tunnel). He probably had IG88 contact me specifically because he knows me the best out of the entire group of Mafia players IN the BBR (out of the 13 of us + OS). He mods the Wario boards, and I've talked to him a number of occasions. We even congratulated each other on making it into the BBR. The big ol' Bowser main just couldn't make it I guess. If you want to confirm for yourself, one of you should just PM IG88 or Zigsta himself... but I wouldn't garuntee Zig being able to confirm without having to type ... unless it's like, YES or NO...
see, on one hand, that's believable. On the other hand, that's what I thought last time, and you were scum. How deep am I going to look into meta to determine my thoughts? Not too far, but that also means that I should limit my allowences for questionable play because you are new. It works both ways.
Mind you, I'm still looking to lynch Rajam and Red Ryu first. I'm just thinking to be looking quite scummy, and want to see what town has to say about it, and what you've got to say for yourself.
Kay, let's not get too caught up in debating this name claim vs. role claim thing. Fair points, Omni... Last OS game I was in (FF4) every main protagonist character was a town role, so it seemed obvious. I sorta read CT as well, and I think that was the case there as well? In any case...
@Pierce: Now that you have statements from others, do you think anyone is now leaning scum for saying full claim or no claim?
@Pierce: I agree with your case on Krystedez, and I was going to dive into an analysis of some of the posts I get from all the questions I asked him myself, but a lot of that would be repeating what you said now. Can I ask you to hold off on analyzing the rest of the posts until we hear from Hilt though? He said he was wary of Krystedez as well. I already have a good read on you, and I'd rather hear from Hilt at this point.
@Hilt: Can you elaborate on what you said on Krystedez? If you were serious about not doing a re-read on him, please at least address posts 431, 447, 461. Thanks.
(don't feel like quoting, just quick posting here before my exam)
Just to clarify, I like his play. I didn't say "I like your play this game UTD, you made a great point, you're totally town man"...
I was being semi-sarcastic and at the same time showing my respect for his play during BBRM. I think you took it too serious. I wanted more information out of him based on what he was questioning and how you answered.
But when Rajam is pretty much stating "IVE GOT A ROLE!!!! *pseudo claim*, even if it is a OS game (in which all players have PRs), its been his intent the entire time to ... well... do this. It could very well be bait. But its day one.
About FF6,
there were two roles, one was a kupo, which was a role blocker IIRC, he had to type 'kupo' at the end of every post.
The other was the umm... yeti whatever, and he had to vote for someone in every post he made. The two were masoned with each other.
I'm very adamant about the course of action relating to Rajam because of this.
Hilt town
Krystedez obv town, but he needs to focus on intention instead of content. Look at posts thinking "why did this guy post this" instead of "what is this guy posting".
scummy so far:
T-block and Pierce = making a storm from a glass of water with the RVS thing
Omni = super ninja
Zac
But no further back than where we were before. If he claims Toad and no one counter claims, then we can always force a full claim, but we KNOW he's not a guaranteed town role. We can then force a full claim out of him at that point.
What if he does indeed claim Mallow? If no one counter claims, I'd rather not have Mafia knowing what his power is. They already know who is Town (or at least, who ISN'T Mafia) so I'd rather not add to their tactical advantage.
Essentially, I'm saying 1 check at a time. Name claim, and if it doesn't check out, THEN Full Claim, and I think that should be the standard for this game. Toad is a likely safe claim and warrants further investigation. Geno is 99% likely to be in the game, and if there's no counter claim, then it's pretty safe to just believe he's town based off that.
If he claims Geno, and no one counter claims Geno, that confirms him Town in my eyes, and I don't want Mafia to know what he's capable of.
Pierce, you're missing the point I'm trying to make. There are no guaranteed town roles until we see some flips publicly to compare the claimed character to.
Also, mafia can use the knowledge of the character. They can know that he is town (if he is the assumed 99% town role you claim) and not indy, who could be more of a threat to scum sooner than later.
I really want to move past this full claim, name claim bit, even though I still hold my opinion that I'd rather see what he says his name is, and then determine if I want a full claim after that.
I'm down to see a full claim anyway at this point.
Are we waiting for anything, or do we mostly all consent to wanting to see Rajam claim? I'd like to get it over with at this point, because Rajam has been occupying our time since the beginning of the game.
So, as opposed to real scum hunting (which you've had plenty of time to do), you're deciding on your top two scum picks by way of OMGUS?
Then you target Raz, who is arguably one of the most pro-town players so far.
At least you hit Zac, who is more null than anything right now due to inactivity, but inactivity is anti-town behavior.
Who do you have as Raz' top pick for a scum buddy? As in, who do you think is most likely to be Mafia if Raz flips Mafia and why? If he's defending someone, he must have a reason. Let's see if I can find an actually useful train of thought in here. It's probably better not to let Raz go TOO investigated anyway.
If Raz flips scum, his partners could be anyone, except maybe RR where I think there is a disconnection. His defending is just what I consider a safe way of quickly gaining town points (ie: he was more focused in gaining town points). The players defended don't really need to have a connection with him.
Players on my wagon, I suspect mainly of 4: you (Pierce), T-block, Omni and Shaya lately too. The first two are the most actives still not letting go on this RVS issue and being sure it remains as a big storm. The last two are mostly ninja'ing around. Omni in special is note-worthy due to how he supports (or at least isn't against) my claim, and it's remarkable (to call it some way) how he got stuck into this storm coming purely from the RVS thing and isn't noticing. Mostly, him not being against me claiming this early is what bothers me the most of him.
Players not on my wagon scummy: Zac: too inactive.
Putting attention on Raziek too.
Hilt: the post I read of him gave me good vibes (380)
Zigsta is inactive as well but his few interventions didn't raise much my suspicion on him. At least he didn't seem insecure, or extremely confident, and didn't create wifom. Still that player slot needs more activity. Hilt and Zac too.
Actually I can think of a slight chance in which Pierce and T-block are just tunneling on me based on superficial content (though I still consider you more scummy than townie) and making that bigger and bigger without even noticing how dumb the case comes from. Omni and Shaya are much more problematic because they'll appear as invisible on a re-read if I get lynched toDay. Pierce and T-block will be obvious; Shaya and Omni won't. I'll focus more on these non-obvious players.
I am posting in blue because there are a lot of quotes.
Okay Rajam, we clearly have a misunderstanding here. Let's look at the interactions between you and others so far, and see who's the one that's reaching:
Rajam, the point is it looks like you're up to something strange, which isn't necessarily bad, but generating confusion IS anti-town, and now you're trying to pass it off as RVS trolling.
Then don't look at those posts, you won't get anything since I played trollish on purpose just for fun. I'm not up to something strange, and I find it funny that Shaya thinks I was onto something with the kupo! thing, or people still obssesed with hunting me for my RVS play. If you overread that you'll get confused, so, don't read them, they hold nothing valuable but trolling votes and statements. My real play starts after my ~ end of RVS ~ phrase.
So far everyone is still pretty null (although I'm just on page 7 - 40ppp); krystedez hasn't done anything; putting more attention on Pierce due to his weird list, Pado because of his loaded statements which he himself claimed are weak, and Raziek because he's being too quick in defending players and don't let them defend themselves. I haven't yet seen any post from Hilt. Zac lying low.
Rajam, post 54 is fine. This is RVS I have no problem with.
Posts 58, 61, 66 are meh, but nothing too serious alone. We have Omni asking serious questions, but not much else. By your post 75, we have my response to Omni's question, Chibo's asking about flavour, etc. Already enough to go on.
Then we have this:
This should be the end of RVS. However, what's your first post after that?
This is now officially being distracting, when you could be doing more productive things. More posts follow:
Your last post of RVS was post 221. RVS ended post 89.
So I guess the better question is: why did you feel the need to prolong your "RVS trolling"?
I hope nobody buys this. Even if you don't get anything, you can ask other players what they thought, bring up other things, etc.
The reason this justification is bull**** is that you could have just sat back and done NOTHING and waited for something real to comment on. Not only would you be under less suspicion now, but you would also be less of a hindrance to town.
Let's stop here. Take a good look at every one of my posts. Do you honestly get the impression that I'm tunneling you hard for your RVS crap? Doesn't every one of my posts in this section bring in something new? I make four posts in this section. The first is my first post addressing this. You then say it was just RVS, and then in my second post I say that you stayed in RVS when everyone else had moved out. My third post brings in posts and a timeline demonstrating this. You already said WHY you posted like that (because it was RVS) - I wanted to know WHY you stayed in RVS. This is a new question, and up to this point you hadn't addressed this. You then say that you stayed in RVS because you didn't gain any read from my interactions with Red Ryu. Then comes my fourth post, where I say that's fine, but you could have just stayed quiet and been in a much better position, with town in a better position as well, assuming you're town. Now let me ask you: was this an unfair statement on my part? Am I WRONG in saying it would have been better for you to stay quiet?
Finally, do you now see that I wasn't drilling you all that hard? Each time I posted I was genuinely seeking more information - that should be obvious from my posts. Try to see it from another player's perspective. It is completely reasonable for us to demand answers when a player is being anti-town.
Now, what is interesting is your reaction to all this, which is what the next section is about. I think this is where you're a little confused - try to keep these two sections separate. The first concerns your RVS play. However, the following section is NOT about your RVS play, but about your reaction to the attacks on your RVS play. These are two very different things.
Rajam, your shenanigans were anti-town, no doubt about it. You can't just pass them off as RVS. Plus, you haven't given a reasonable explanation for it.
For the record, it's not a strong scum read on you at the moment, but it's the strongest one I have. My read on Krystedez is pretty weak atm.
Your vote on me smells like OMGUS imo. I think you're trying to threaten people out of focusing on your RVS.
I would like to see you answer Pierce's question as to whether you thought you could do this without falling under suspicion.
I definitely with you T-Block. I don't buy it for a second. The only reason I'm not really drilling into Rajam is because I feel like we as Town on a whole don't seem to know how we want to precede from here. Like I said before, some of us want a claim, some of us don't. Most of us feel it's too early to lynch.
I feel like the Rajam interrogation is pretty much over. We can try and ask other people how they feel about him, generate more connections, and gather more data, but as far as I'm concerned, Rajam hasn't done anything that makes me feel he should live the day out.
I don't want to lynch him yet, because there's still plenty of things worth investigating. I'm getting more and more suspicious of Krystedez again. His last walls of posts did not blow over with me at all.
And now Rajam is OMGUSing T-Block, trying to claim that there should be no pressure on him, when he is still the scummiest target of the day, and at L-2. I PERSONALLY FEEL ENDANGERED, because I have NOT voting for him, and I think he's going to flip scum (but obviously it would be scummy to push him too close to a hammer, or hammer him, and this leaves me with a predicament if he does indeed flip scum).
That being said, LOL RAJAM, 5 people and at one point 6 people are voting for you right now, and you're OMGUSing T-Block right now?!
@Rajam: Noted, and as I said, I prefer that to what you did because it wasn't distracting. If you are town, look at what you've done: a lot of the day has been dedicated to discussing your actions, and if you get lynched, we just lost a townie. Zac hasn't done much, but he hasn't hindered us apart from being inactive.
@Pierce: If I gave the impression that I wanted to quick lynch him, know that I don't. I agree there's not much point in questioning his RVS any further, because he's made his story pretty clear. I don't think my questioning was excessive though, and we can proceed now knowing he has made a clear statement about the intentions of his early posts.
I still think a name claim is a good idea because of the potential to clear up this confusion, but I can understand if others don't want to go for it.
Reasonable explanation? I've said several times there isn't. just RVS trollin, obvious dumb ideas, random votes. Distracting? that was so obviously non-serious that whoever got distracted by it is a noob.
Healthy pressure was expected, but also it would give scum the perfect excuse of "easy lynch", for whoever got into that too much and didn't let go. You're doing that. Hence you're scum.
Can't tell if you guys are just tunneling for the most superficial thing ever (RVS play) or are scum not letting this dumb issue go. Wary of possible ninjas into my wagon, but I've yet to track them.
Pierce = scummy
Krystedez = null. scum if the Day ends with him not doing anything
Omni = null
Chibo = null
I've yet to find a strong (or even slight) town read. I have none still.
Yes, I'm suspecting T-block because he is still bringing the RVS thing, as well as Pierce
Not claiming. Although maybe I actually left some breadcrumbs into RVS?
inb4 "Rajam is distracting" and mafia going back to look for my bcrumbs
I trust smart town won't start digging into what won't help in finding scum. I left some slight bcrumbs of my character and how my ability works in RVS, but it will mostly be impossible to decypher those without me explaining. Just forget RVS, you'll hardly find anything. Top suspects? As far as page 7 goes and these last exchanges, my top scum picks would be T-block and Pierce because of this insistence on the most superficial thing ever (common guys... RVS really??), Raziek for being so hasty in defending players instead of letting pressure do its work, and Zac for being inactive-but-not-absolute-inactive.
Everyone else is pretty much null; I've yet have to find something "strong" in terms of something indicating someone as pretty much town or scum. There're a lot of posts for sure but most of them don't give much info in terms of players' possible alliance.
So, as opposed to real scum hunting (which you've had plenty of time to do), you're deciding on your top two scum picks by way of OMGUS?
Then you target Raz, who is arguably one of the most pro-town players so far.
At least you hit Zac, who is more null than anything right now due to inactivity, but inactivity is anti-town behavior.
Who do you have as Raz' top pick for a scum buddy? As in, who do you think is most likely to be Mafia if Raz flips Mafia and why? If he's defending someone, he must have a reason. Let's see if I can find an actually useful train of thought in here. It's probably better not to let Raz go TOO investigated anyway.
I have no doubt that the majority of players wanting to see you claim want it NOT because of your RVS play, but because of how you responded to the pressure you received from it, and THIS is not what you are not understanding.
This is a game of mafia. Players are going to be pressured - applying pressure through questioning is how town catches scum. It is NOT a town move to brush off pressure, especially if you do so by trying to threaten players off your wagon. This game progresses because of pressure, and you are responding to pressure quite poorly. You attack the player pressuring you, as well as try to divert pressure to other players (Hilt, Zac, Zigsta) instead of attempting to respond rationally. This is the very definition of OMGUS and redirection, but considered fairly strong scum tells.
Go back and take a look. No player really individually applied TONS of pressure for your RVS play. I was probably the one who did the most, and I showed why I think it's justified in this post. Your attack on Pierce is a good case to examine. Find me the posts where Pierce attacks your RVS shenanigans. And then find me the posts where Pierce attacks your reaction to the attacks on your RVS shenanigans. Pierce's pressure definitely did NOT focus on your RVS crap, and yet you call him scummy for being caught up in your RVS play?
Anyways, I felt I needed to post a defense in case anyone gets swayed by Rajam's ridiculous conclusions. I would like to jump right back into where we were before though, since I see that being more productive than this Rajam situation at the moment.
I'm fine with no name claiming then. I agree with Pierce on this matter, especially in that there's no harm in name claiming and then being open to the idea of a full claim, but there's no need for town to be divided over something like this right now.
There was good pressure going on Krystedez... just a quick a reminder to Hilt about my question:
@Hilt: Can you elaborate on what you said on Krystedez? If you were serious about not doing a re-read on him, please at least address posts 431, 447, 461. Thanks.
I'll appear invisible on a re-read?
Me taking your "RVS" crap as some sort of uber obvious breadcrumb while you were flaying around like an idiot and me going "okay this is some sort of huge bait" is... a red flag?
I kinda feel like you're OMGUSing here. RR, Chibo and Raziek (IIRC) were fine with this wagon too.
I hope you realise how frustrating it seems to me that it seems like you're doing obnoxious breadcrumbing and crying for attention, followed by "LOL JK".
Do you actually think it was pro-town to play like you did? What excuse did you have for #251? And I honestly wish you weren't being as distracting as you were.
If I choose to believe you weren't being obnoxious in your breadcrumbing (which,yep, you deny completely that you were...), then no, I don't think you should be forced to claim - yet. HOWEVER, I still rate your play as the most anti-town thus far, Hilt thinks RRs is slightly more so, and I can see where he's coming from in relation to you being more content-filled with your recent posts.
I do feel a bit guilty about tunnelling at this point, I really felt there was a revelation that needed to occur before anything else could happen. I'm going to start rereading, I think there is a lot more needing to be done before we decide what the play for the day is.
This post follows directly after Omni's post where he mentions Rajam a lot, saying he is perfectly fine with this lynch. Rajam ignores all that, and instead goes IIoA. Why does it matter that Krystedez said the wrong name? Rajam hasn't posted since then.
I honestly have no idea how you got the impression that I'm scum going for an easy lynch on you.
I wanted you to claim not necessarily because I wanted to lynch you (although I'm not gonna lie - I'd be fine with your lynch now), but because you have drummed up a ****load of confusion and distraction, and a claim is probably the best way to move past all that and actually do something.
So prepare yourselves.
