Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[TempestSurge]

Another thing regarding Isaac vs Bayo in terms of all this is that Isaac goes against what seemed to be Sm4sh’s core philosophy.

Relevancy and importance.

Isaac was/is neither of these. So honestly it didn’t matter how much he was voted for during the ballot in terms of Sm4sh DLC. He was NEVER going to make it in. Bayo on the other hand... was an easy way to advertise Bayonetta 2. Simple as that.

That’s all different in Ultimate, however. Relevancy has been thrown out the window and fan favorites are put in. I don’t want to sound too doom and gloom, but Ultimate just may be Isaac’s last chance at getting into Smash unless Nintendo just decides to revive the franchise.

I think the doom and gloom kicks in more when we realize that there's a good chance if Isaac's not in base, then Sakurai may acknowledge his popularity with the return of his assist trophy, which kills his chances for however many years of DLC this game will receive. It's kind of hard to think Isaac will not be playable and still have his assist absent. At least in 4 we could say it was due to 3ds limitations, here there would be no reason for Sakurai to not return the assist if he didn't make Isaac playable unless he comes out and mentions his DLC plans in advance.

 

[Frosty Pops]

I remember back in the K.Rool thread a lot of people were worried that unlike Ridley's, K.Rool's popularity had never been brought up in the past other than the Mii costume, and you see how that turned out. The fact Isaac hasn't been brought up isn't that much of a problem, and I think he's the kind of super popular character who, if he wasn't gonna be playable, would've been acknowledged already in some way. I am glad Sakurai at least disconfirmed Midna so early or I'd have been crushed when finding out the truth, and I am sure he's aware Isaac is too popular not to be on people's radar.

The only alternative I can think of is that Isaac isn't in the game in any way whatsoever, which seems unlikely given how all out on the fanservice Ultimate is. They even brought back Scizor and Gray Fox, which means bringing back assist characters isn't out of the question, so if he wasn't playable, he would've at least been made an Assist Trophy again.

That said, does anyone know if Golden Sun was, like, disproportionately popular in Europe or something? I am amazed that literally everyone I know with a GBA played Golden Sun(except me, i am ashamed), and knows Isaac and wants him in the game. He certainly doesn't feel like the niche character so many people claim he is.

I heard he won a fan ballot in Germany. And I believe he is #2 or 3 in Europe overall.

 

[QcSlayer]

but it did. twice.

Yeah sure...

Anyway we are getting 103 stages and not 108, theres no place for GS!

Sarcasm.exe ON

 

[Malkior7]

Hey guys what's goin-

So a user in my discord just drew Isaac-ette and I'm terrified.

View attachment 167650

 

[Frosty Pops]

I like to imagine there's an ordinal master list of characters written in hiragana on a napkin or saved in a Notepad doc somewhere and it's like

Smash Ultimate Char List v. Final

Inkling
Ridley
Simon/Richter (both?) (call konami) (snake?!) (call kojima for his birthday next week)
K.Rool
Tom Nook Isabelle
Isaac
Geno (ask for music rights this time!)
A pokeman
------------------------------------
Banjo
Shantae
Goku
ect.

And at some point he just drew that line, wrote DEC 7TH in all caps in the margin and said alright that's all we can fit, rest is DLC, throw in echoes if you have any spare time.

Hey watch out, Goku used Instant Transmission and snuck onto your list. lol

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I'm not inclined toward liking Isaac, but it would be interesting to see Nintendo revisit one of their older games. Granted, I would like to see a different game first, Golden Sun just seems like the more likely one.

That being said, I don't think that Isaac would be in the base game, but I feel like the revisiting of the trademark almost confirms him as DLC. I feel like Nintendo would have reinstated their trademark during Smash's development in order to get the rights to use the likes of Golden Sun's characters in Smash. Although this never happened with guests, remember that Golden Sun appeared on Nintendo systems and thus would require a Nintendo trademark in the first place. And Camelot hasn't been that active lately, which isn't a good sign.

But Nintendo reinstating their trademark now suggests that they're already planning DLC, and Isaac will be one of the first to be announced.

 

[THE 6r]

This is your daily reminder that everything is going to be fine.

 

[Xenigma]

I think the doom and gloom kicks in more when we realize that there's a good chance if Isaac's not in base, then Sakurai may acknowledge his popularity with the return of his assist trophy, which kills his chances for however many years of DLC this game will receive. It's kind of hard to think Isaac will not be playable and still have his assist absent. At least in 4 we could say it was due to 3ds limitations, here there would be no reason for Sakurai to not return the assist if he didn't make Isaac playable unless he comes out and mentions his DLC plans in advance.

I'm honestly not sure being an assist trophy is an automatic disqualification for DLC. If this is a game they intend to support throughout 2019 and possibly beyond, removing popular characters like Waluigi and Ashley from consideration seems short-sighted. Maybe it would be awkward, but I can so easily imagine seeing an announcement at E3 or TGS next year saying "Thanks to popular demand, <Waluigi> will be joining the roster!" and a tease that one or more ATs will get their chance in a future update. They don't even necessarily have to remove the ATs: worst case scenario, I'm sure they could change it so the AT can't appear if the actual character is being played. I just find it difficult to believe Nintendo would just leave money on the table because of design decisions that were probably made years ago.

This is your daily reminder that everything is going to be fine.

Ain't that the truth! Sometimes I have to remind myself of just how awesome Ultimate already is, and that, Isaac or no, it's going to very exciting to play.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I'm honestly not sure being an assist trophy is an automatic disqualification for DLC. If this is a game they intend to support throughout 2019 and possibly beyond, removing popular characters like Waluigi and Ashley from consideration seems short-sighted. Maybe it would be awkward, but I can so easily imagine seeing an announcement at E3 or TGS next year saying "Thanks to popular demand, <Waluigi> will be joining the roster!" and a tease that one or more ATs will get their chance in a future update. They don't even necessarily have to remove the ATs: worst case scenario, I'm sure they could change it so the AT can't appear if the actual character is being played. I just find it difficult to believe Nintendo would just leave money on the table because of design decisions that were probably made years ago.



Ain't that the truth! Sometimes I have to remind myself of just how awesome Ultimate already is, and that, Isaac or no, it's going to very exciting to play.

I think the likely solution to include ATs as playable is to have a shapeshifter-type character (think Doopliss or Ditto) be seen transforming into the AT if the same character is in play. Otherwise it kind of disturbs balance if picking a specific character can turn off an item from appearing.

 

[Luigifan18]

I think the likely solution to include ATs as playable is to have a shapeshifter-type character (think Doopliss or Ditto) be seen transforming into the AT if the same character is in play. Otherwise it kind of disturbs balance if picking a specific character can turn off an item from appearing.

Having Doopliss make a cameo appearance like this would be amazing.

 

[TappyBat]

I think the doom and gloom kicks in more when we realize that there's a good chance if Isaac's not in base, then Sakurai may acknowledge his popularity with the return of his assist trophy, which kills his chances for however many years of DLC this game will receive. It's kind of hard to think Isaac will not be playable and still have his assist absent. At least in 4 we could say it was due to 3ds limitations, here there would be no reason for Sakurai to not return the assist if he didn't make Isaac playable unless he comes out and mentions his DLC plans in advance.

true and that worries me. make him playably please!

 

[ThoughtfulWanderer]

It's kind of hard to think Isaac will not be playable and still have his assist absent.

And that's exactly why if this happens, he's absolutely being planned for DLC. There's too much in the way of fan support to not give him anything. The only reason he wouldn't have an immediate role is if he had to be set aside for later, and the only role that could be intensive enough to require that is as a fighter.

I do wonder if the second trademark renewal gives us a clue that this is what will happen. It's about the right time frame for a first wave DLC character, likely to be announced in the final Smash direct and released somewhere between February-April. This is essentially what happened with Mewtwo.

With how much they're adding in to Ultimate already (Sakurai going on about how even stages can be time-consuming to create) and the December release date feeling like a Nintendo move to get this out for the holidays, I'm certain that not everything on their project plan was able to be included right away.

Isaac could have very well been one of those things. The Rathalos tweet was just 2 weeks before the second trademark renewal. Perhaps that was when they decided on starting with Isaac as their first DLC (hence the tease), and right after filing the trademark was when they started coding him. After all, the trademark does make mention of downloadable content.

The five unknown stages are the only thing that have me wondering if I'm overthinking this and Isaac actually will be in the base game.

 

[QcSlayer]

5 stages is just to good for Isaac chances, it must means at least 5 newcomers.

 

[Xenigma]

5 stages is just to good for Isaac chances, it must means at least 5 newcomers.

Not really: there have always been stages without playable characters attached, and we've seen precious few brand new stages for Ultimate. I'd expect 2-3 of the remaining stages to be related to newcomers and the remainder to be miscellaneous new stages, assuming we have seen all the returning stages.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If I had to guess if that's the case.

Alola stage: Incineroar
Minecraft stage: Steve
Rhythm Heaven stage: Karate Joe or Chorus Kids
Venus Lighthouse: Isaac
XenoBlade X Stage: Elma

 

[Shin F.]

I think the likely solution to include ATs as playable is to have a shapeshifter-type character (think Doopliss or Ditto) be seen transforming into the AT if the same character is in play. Otherwise it kind of disturbs balance if picking a specific character can turn off an item from appearing.

The item would still appear, it would just pick one of the other 50+ characters instead of the one that's already battling

 

[GoodGrief741]

The item would still appear, it would just pick one of the other 50+ characters instead of the one that's already battling

It’s still unbalanced if an item with random results has said random results affected by a choice of character.

 

[Fire Tactician]

And here I thought that today's blog point would be normal and non-controversial, but nope, they go and call Sheik a guy...

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

And here I thought that today's blog point would be normal and non-controversial, but nope, they go and call Sheik a guy...

Yeah that's pretty funny

 

[GoodGrief741]

And here I thought that today's blog point would be normal and non-controversial, but nope, they go and call Sheik a guy...

*insert Michael Jackson eating popcorn gif*
Let the fight begin!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

And here I thought that today's blog point would be normal and non-controversial, but nope, they go and call Sheik a guy...

This is the point where you realise the interns are so untrained that they never even searched info on video games in their lives, let alone played them.

 

[Dyllybirdy]

This is the point where you realise the interns are so untrained that they never even searched info on video games in their lives, let alone played them.

They haven't even played Ocarina of Time?

I'm very unimpressed.

 

[Confirmation]

And here I thought that today's blog point would be normal and non-controversial, but nope, they go and call Sheik a guy...

Ah yes, the ancient controversy of guy vs. girl

 

[Isaac for Smash Pls]

And here I thought that today's blog point would be normal and non-controversial, but nope, they go and call Sheik a guy...

Lol that's just because of whoever translated it. The Japanese makes no mention of gender (or pronouns at all for that matter).

On an unrelated note, please remember to vote for Isaac on the Reddit fan ballot! We crushed Sora, but now we need to get through Lloyd. It pains me because I've voted for Lloyd in every other matchup, but we have to support our boy. I think we can maybe beat Geno if we get a good turnout, but Banjo already beat us once so that may be as high as we go. No matter what happens, top 4 is nothing to scoff at and it shows all the haters that Isaac's fanbase is real and we turn out in droves. The sun will rise!

 

[Fire Tactician]

It is interesting that they're admitting to not using the original design and highlighting their inspiration for the redesign. That might give some people who want Isaac to have a slight redesign some hope.

 

[THE 6r]

Man I love me a good video game argument and, ohh boy has the blog given us a gift in that department.

I can just see the LOZ forums online just erupting at into chaos right now.

Lol that's just because of whoever translated it. The Japanese makes no mention of gender (or pronouns at all for that matter).

On an unrelated note, please remember to vote for Isaac on the Reddit fan ballot! We crushed Sora, but now we need to get through Lloyd. It pains me because I've voted for Lloyd in every other matchup, but we have to support our boy. I think we can maybe beat Geno if we get a good turnout, but Banjo already beat us once so that may be as high as we go. No matter what happens, top 4 is nothing to scoff at and it shows all the haters that Isaac's fanbase is real and we turn out in droves. The sun will rise!

Can someone link to the poll, please?

 

[FlawedAI]

I think no matter what Isaac gets a redesign. My guess is aged up, probably made taller, looks older, and I really hope they combine the scarf with the trench coat to create a new look for Isaac (and maybe make Matthew more visually distinct, since he wouldn't have the coat, if nessecary).

 

[Q-Long]

And here I thought that today's blog point would be normal and non-controversial, but nope, they go and call Sheik a guy...

hot

internet please give everythang a sheik form, it'll be peachette in the reverse

that being said yes, a lot of interns just don't care about games or don't know that stuff, i mean there are a lot of nerds out there, who edit wikipedia pages and argue about dumb stuff like who has a stronger power level, goomba or octorok, so I wonder why they have such a hard time finding a knowledgeable person lol

 

[GoodGrief741]

This is the point where you realise the interns are so untrained that they never even searched info on video games in their lives, let alone played them.

That would explain Bloody Tears leaking.

 

[FlawedAI]

hot

internet please give everythang a sheik form, it'll be peachette in the reverse

that being said yes, a lot of interns just don't care about games or don't know that stuff, i mean there are a lot of nerds out there, who edit wikipedia pages and argue about dumb stuff like who has a stronger power level, goomba or octorok, so I wonder why they have such a hard time finding a knowledgeable person lol

Peachette, but traps? Sure, why not.

Also, yeah, it's really strange that they can't seem to get competent people to handle the most important game released this year.

 

[THE 6r]

Who is on the website staff these days? There seems to be some issues with the whole Bloody Tears, and now this. Something I miss from Smash 4 speculation are those Sakurai "Pic of the Day" posts. The suspense of him just randomly revealing a new mechanic, stage, or even a character was intense. Here, much of what they talk about are things we, for the most part, already know. Translation staff was also better in the aforementioned PotD posts.

 

[FlawedAI]

Who is on the website staff these days? There seems to be some issues with the whole Bloody Tears, and now this. Something I miss from Smash 4 speculation are those Sakurai "Pic of the Day" posts. The suspense of him just randomly revealing a new mechanic, stage, or even a character was intense. Here, much of what they talk about are things we, for the most part, already know. Translation staff was also better in the aforementioned PotD posts.

I think Sakurai's being much more controlling about the reveal process so far. Nothing has been revealed outside of Directs, so clearly nothing will be shown in the blog posts (outside of music, I guess). I bet this all ties into Sakurai trying to avoid leaks, or be more controlling of information release.

 

[Fire Tactician]

I think no matter what Isaac gets a redesign. My guess is aged up, probably made taller, looks older, and I really hope they combine the scarf with the trench coat to create a new look for Isaac (and maybe make Matthew more visually distinct, since he wouldn't have the coat, if nessecary).

I like this idea, though only a slight age up in my opinion. Make him look like he'd actually be 17/18 and make his height about Robin's. That'd look pretty good.

I just hope they get his hair right. I've seen some images that have his hair looking real blocky and I much prefer other looks as long as it's not as flattened as his Brawl model.

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

Also interesting to note is that on the assist trophy page on the Brawl dojo it's worded as if some of the assist trophies in the game were planned to be playable but didn't make the cut. We all know some characters in Brawl's roster barely made it in under heavy time constraints so it's obvious alot of characters couldn't make the cut.

The above comment is worded as if some of the assist trophies weren't so lucky in being granted playable status. Seeing how Isaac was the only assist trophy with a full fledged remix dedicated to his series (Little Mac even had a small role with this with the Punch Out theme in the Famicom medley) it's really highly likely that Isaac was cut from Brawl and it also makes his Smash 4 absence more suspicious. Also considering how Sakurai even stated that Takamaru was cut and even he got a full fledged new remix as well it makes this theory much more valid in my eyes

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I think Sakurai's being much more controlling about the reveal process so far. Nothing has been revealed outside of Directs, so clearly nothing will be shown in the blog posts (outside of music, I guess). I bet this all ties into Sakurai trying to avoid leaks, or be more controlling of information release.

It seems likely that they have the bare minimum of information. At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if 's description consists only of "he throws eggs and eats things".

 

[FlawedAI]

It seems likely that they have the bare minimum of information. At this rate I wouldn't be surprised if 's description consists only of "he throws eggs and eats things".

Yeah, it really does seem like they have a tight grip on info, which makes "leaks" like Verge even less credible.

 

[smash puffle]

I want to support you guys on these final weeks, so please add me to the support list.

 

[Shin F.]

It’s still unbalanced if an item with random results has said random results affected by a choice of character.

Not really, the result has such a wide variety of possibility that the effects on balance are a nonfactor, especially because items aren't balanced in the first place. Even if you did consider it a factor, however, choosing a character to lock away one possibility would simply be a strategic move.

 

[Teeb147]

How are you guys over 500 pages? you have to stop this madness!
jk, yous a good bunch, i think

 

[Dyllybirdy]

How are you guys over 500 pages? you have to stop this madness!
jk, yous a good bunch, i think

Do you want me to expose you by showing everyone what you said about Isaac supporters to me in the convo?