Stun Jacket: NEW (first) Marth AT! (Also works with Ike)

[Remzi]

hmm, zairs should work.

The only explanation would be that either reflector is actually the single exception, or reflector has a windbox...

Also, how about Gdorfs utilt, does that work?

 

[MysticKenji]

Gdorf's utilt works because it has a windbox.

Thank you, and this is the expected result.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6OziuiB19E (1:07)
It was towards the end of FLUDD and not tipped my bad -_-;;

I'll do some testing myself with waterboxes later.

 

[Pierce7d]

Hey, isnt ikes Aether a hitbox that doesnt touch his body? If so then he should be able to wear a jacket. If not then this is just another exception to the rule i guess.

Aether uses Ike's sword, which is part of his character sprite.

Would this apply to zairs and falco's reflector?

I explicitly stated this works with Falco's reflector (in fact, that discovery was very important, as it disproved the theory that this only works with Windboxes.) The reason that I think it doesn't work with Waterboxes, is because you can clash with them, unlike Windboxes, although you can also clash with tornado.

OK, guys, this only works if the attack isn't part of the charcter sprite, like Ike's sword doesn't work, even though some of his attacks outrange counter. yes cman, Reflector works, but Zairs don't.

All true except the Zair part. I haven't tested any Zairs.

hmm, zairs should work.

The only explanation would be that either reflector is actually the single exception, or reflector has a windbox...

Also, how about Gdorfs utilt, does that work?

Ganon's Utilt does work (thought I mentioned that in the OP), I don't know if Zairs do or don't. So far, I think I've only gotten this to work with specials now that I think about it. Ganon's Utilt is the only exception I believe, and that's because it has a Windbox.

Gdorf's utilt works because it has a windbox.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6OziuiB19E (1:07)
It was towards the end of FLUDD and not tipped my bad -_-;;

I'll do some testing myself with waterboxes later.

Much appreciated.

 

[Tenki]

Okay, so if I understand correctly:

Player B attacks Marth.
Marth counters and doesn't connect.
Player B has stun jacket.

Q1:
Is this hitSTUN (target can't use moves) or hitLAG (target is frozen in place)? Sorry, can't test anything until Friday.

Part Three: What the Stun Jacket does
As previously mentioned, the Stun Jacket gets equipped to the target player whose attack was countered. From then on, if this player hits ANY other player, it will activate consume the Jacket on the first hit. Furthermore, if this player gets hit by any other player, it will activate and consume the Jacket on the first hit. When the Jacket is activated, the person who gets hit receives INCREASED HITSTUN and DELAYED (not decresed) KNOCKBACK. This is important, because it grants the victim more time to DI, which makes it appear like some attacks have decreased knockback.

Part Four: Important notes
While a character is wearing the jacket, they will get the effects of the jacket when they get hit, or will use the effects of the jacket when they hit someone else. Since it's probably best not to waste the jacket on hitting someone else, to keep the increased DI for yourself,

Q2: Player B attacks Player C.
2a- Player B loses the effects of the jacket, so there's no increased hitstun on player B anymore?
2b- Player C, when hit, experiences extra hitlag/stun?

Q3:
Is this stackable? lol

 

[Pierce7d]

A1: Sounds like hitlag. Excuse me for being a scrub in Melee, and never really got the difference concrete. Hitstun virtually disappeared in Brawl, so I didn't bother refreshing my vocabulary.

A2: exactly

A3: Unfortunately not. I tested that too. Imagine!

 

[Dark Shifter]

has/can anyone put up a vid of this?

 

[feardragon64]

A3: Unfortunately not. I tested that too. Imagine!

I DI'd in the opposite direction from the hit...but I died in the opposite direction because I had too much directional influence! lawls

 

[Pierce7d]

No. At this point, I'd hate to keep the community waiting, just so I could do it myself. Eventually, I'll post a vid, but anyone who wants to do so before me can go ahead.

 

[Nightshine]

Ok so let me try to understand this a bit better.

So once Marth counters, lets say d3's inhale, and it doesn't hit then d3 has the jacket right?

If thats true then if dedede gets hit then he has more DI ability but more hitlag (or stun not too sure anymore lol)

Does the jacket stay on that person forever (like if they die but aren't hit when they die so they suicide or something)?

If d3 hits someone else does the jacket disappear? Or does it go to who he hit? Does the person he hit experience what the jacket does once hit?

Is this beneficial for whoever has the jacket since they have more hitlag? (or stun..whichever it is)

What about snakes explosion moves he has (dsmash, down B, mortar, nade, etc) would it give snake the jacket then?

SInce Ike has super armor does that effect it in anyway? Don't know because you guys said his sword was apart of his sprite so it might not even matter.

F-!!!! stubed my toe on my freaken door >.> (unrelated btw!!)

Can there be more than one stun jacket in a match? posibly maybe not with a marth and marth but ike and ike or marth and ike combo to try to see if theres a certain type of jacket for Marths counter and another for Ikes counter?

What about Lucarios down B move? (forgot what its exactly called)

Do you think there is a possible stun jacket with super armor moves? Like if Ike gets hit while doing aether or eruption would something like this happen to him?

Yes a lot of questions lol....sorry

Thanks for putting this up it seems like it can be useful but it would take extreme skill lol.

 

[Pierce7d]

Ok so let me try to understand this a bit better.

So once Marth counters, lets say d3's inhale, and it doesn't hit then d3 has the jacket right?

Correct

If thats true then if dedede gets hit then he has more DI ability but more hitlag (or stun not too sure anymore lol)

Correct

Does the jacket stay on that person forever (like if they die but aren't hit when they die so they suicide or something)?

Incorrect. The jacket is consumed upon activation.

If d3 hits someone else does the jacket disappear? Or does it go to who he hit? Does the person he hit experience what the jacket does once hit?

The third option. If D3 hits somebody, they experience hitlag

Is this beneficial for whoever has the jacket since they have more hitlag? (or stun..whichever it is)

Yes. They will be able to input more DI, to live longer, and evade attacks better, or set up Mindgames.

What about snakes explosion moves he has (dsmash, down B, mortar, nade, etc) would it give snake the jacket then?

You'll have to try it for yourself, but I don't believe it'll work with any projectile.

SInce Ike has super armor does that effect it in anyway? Don't know because you guys said his sword was apart of his sprite so it might not even matter.

Super Armor seems completely unrelated. It'll just be as if the move was delayed. Remember, even invincibility doesn't affect this AT.

F-!!!! stubed my toe on my freaken door >.> (unrelated btw!!)

I'm sorry to hear that.

Can there be more than one stun jacket in a match? posibly maybe not with a marth and marth but ike and ike or marth and ike combo to try to see if theres a certain type of jacket for Marths counter and another for Ikes counter?

I believe Marth could put a Stun Jacket on every character on the map if he wanted to, so long as they properly equip it. I think Jackets can be donned simultaneously. I believe the jackets are independent. I don't know for certain though, I haven't tested.

What about Lucarios down B move? (forgot what its exactly called)

I have never observed the Jacket from Double Team. It is entirely different than counter, and doesn't have the mechanics that counter does which put on the

Do you think there is a possible stun jacket with super armor moves? Like if Ike gets hit while doing aether or eruption would something like this happen to him?

No, the jacket would probably just fade since Ike still got hit. You wouldn't take any knockback theoretically, but you'd still see the lag.

Yes a lot of questions lol....sorry

Thanks for putting this up it seems like it can be useful but it would take extreme skill lol.

No problem. And it's pretty circumstantial, but could be useful in Team play.

My answers are bold

 

[illinialex24]

Ok, I think I finally understand this and its epic. Great find.

 

[bschung]

Just wanted to point out a small relevant detail ... it's extra easy to set up with Marth and DDD because countering DDD's inhale for some reason makes Marth swing his sword in the opposite direction. This doesn't happen with Ike+DDD, Ike+Kirby, or Marth+Kirby. (They swing in the same direction, so to intentionally miss the sword-swing of Counter takes a bit more care and more time to set up)

I don't think we ever came up with any good conclusion as to why DDD's inhale makes Marth's counter face the wrong way. And why it faces the right way with Kirby's inhale, or Ike's counter no matter who's inhaling.

Also, if i'm not mistaken, if a member of the enemy team is near Marth when DDD's inhale activates counter, and the enemy gets hit by Marth's counter when he wasn't the one who activated it (DDD's inhale did)... The enemy gets hit without the usual hitlag of counter, because the jacket is on DDD. And stays on, unless he was too close and got hit by the counter too.

Game+Watch's up-B was also notably easy and very fast to set up, to counter without hitting him, and without leaving your team open for attack for longer than a moment.

 

[LaserBust]

Lmao bschung, I tested all of those same exact things 2day and came up with same results..

And yeh, givin GnW a jacket iz pretty ez - Jus standn back 2 back seems 2 work 4 me.

Also, me and my friend tested and he lived about 10-15% longer when equipped wit a jacket from a Uncharged Tipped Fsmash from Marth from center of FD. But we sorta rushed this and waz jus sorta messn around.. But yeh.. jus a % 2 give u guys a general idea.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Very nicely done and nice tesing. You finds were organized very well and it was so easy to read! :D thanks for your work!

Woot another Marth AT! :D at first i thought this AT would be more like, it would stun ur opponent... well it sorta does, but not that long. Well anyways, its a nice trick to know. And Shield Hitstun should help a lot, even if its a few frames. And now i know that if i want someone to die and want to hit them with a KO move, i'll try to make sure they dont have the shield jacket so i can determine the fastest KO move i can use that would still kill them.

And I like how you included a lot of details, especially the small ones. Those are so important, and whenever i read a guide or post that doesn't include small details like the ones you included, i get a little dissappointed.

Very nice find, GJ and thx

 

[Pierce7d]

Just wanted to point out a small relevant detail ... it's extra easy to set up with Marth and DDD because countering DDD's inhale for some reason makes Marth swing his sword in the opposite direction. This doesn't happen with Ike+DDD, Ike+Kirby, or Marth+Kirby. (They swing in the same direction, so to intentionally miss the sword-swing of Counter takes a bit more care and more time to set up)

I don't think we ever came up with any good conclusion as to why DDD's inhale makes Marth's counter face the wrong way. And why it faces the right way with Kirby's inhale, or Ike's counter no matter who's inhaling.

Also, if i'm not mistaken, if a member of the enemy team is near Marth when DDD's inhale activates counter, and the enemy gets hit by Marth's counter when he wasn't the one who activated it (DDD's inhale did)... The enemy gets hit without the usual hitlag of counter, because the jacket is on DDD. And stays on, unless he was too close and got hit by the counter too.

Game+Watch's up-B was also notably easy and very fast to set up, to counter without hitting him, and without leaving your team open for attack for longer than a moment.

Good stuff for helping me with stuff I forgot. This also basically means that you if you counter ANY attack, it'll deal the full knockback to OTHER PEOPLE who get hit by the counter, since they won't get the hitlag. Essentially, if I counter a kill move, and the attack of counter connects with someone who didn't throw that kill move, they'll be more harshly affected since they won't have the hitlag of the Stun Jacket.

 

[crazn137]

Sorry if this was asked before, but I have a question about Falco's reflector. How would equiping Falco with the jacket work when countering the reflector? Do you just need to counter the reflector or the windbox? If you do just need to counter the reflector, is it okay to hit the reflector? (I'm not sure where it's windboxes are). Thanks.

 

[LaserBust]

Sorry if this was asked before, but I have a question about Falco's reflector. How would equiping Falco with the jacket work when countering the reflector? Do you just need to counter the reflector or the windbox? If you do just need to counter the reflector, is it okay to hit the reflector? (I'm not sure where it's windboxes are). Thanks.

Were not sure if Falco's reflector even have a windbox. Jus counter the shine but make sure not 2 hit Falco.

 

[IDK]

i dont really get it. i might just be lightheaded because i got punched in the face twice today and i cant see out of my right eye... gawd... long story.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Interesting, and sounds very useful. This should definitely be posted in the tactical discussion.

 

[BacklashMarth]

Lmao, i think im gonna abuse this when me and my bro team up as ddd/G&W and marth. I just need to figure out a way to set up the scenario where i give someone the full knockback.

 

[Pierce7d]

Easy. Camp Fairs in front of D3 and have him Fsmash if someone approaches. He'll be safe because you'll be in front if him and Fsmash covers a huge distance in front of and above D3, you'll be invincible due to counter.

Only problem is, D3 might get hit. Gotta practice spacing.

Or you could just have him hold inhale behind you. It doesn't have finishing power, but it completely locks off your opponent's option of going behind you, and Marth walls very well. If you feel in danger, you can just fall back a little while countering. This will make you invincible as you swing a top priority move against your opponents, and you can decided whether or not to actually get sucked in by D3 for more protection. This will also give in a jacket.

I love D3 as a teams partner.

 

[D1]

So if you have disjointed hitboxes or "windboxes" you can equip a stun jacket?

Read the first post..and I'm guessing Falco's downB is basically a disjointed hitbox since its not part of his body correct?

 

[Pierce7d]

So if you have disjointed hitboxes or "windboxes" you can equip a stun jacket?

Read the first post..and I'm guessing Falco's downB is basically a disjointed hitbox since its not part of his body correct?

Roughly, you've got the right idea. But not all disjointed hitboxes in the regular sense that we use the term work. D3's hammer is disjointed, but it doesn't create a Jacket. It looks like you need a hitbox that's not part of your normal character sprite.

 

[BacklashMarth]

Hey, do the stars from D3 work when trying to equip a jacket? Im just throwing out things to test for this AT. I was also thinking of Lucas and lucarios aura/psi moves. Im gonna take a wild guess and say neither will work (except lucas' psi magnet maybe and maybe if were lucky then lucarios force palm).

 

[J4pu]

First thing to really make me think, how the **** did he find this?
other than IDC but that doesnt count, they got like a trillion ppl working on MK
very interesting and good to know

was Samus' Zair tested?

 

[PenUmbra]

Hey, do the stars from D3 work when trying to equip a jacket? Im just throwing out things to test for this AT. I was also thinking of Lucas and lucarios aura/psi moves. Im gonna take a wild guess and say neither will work (except lucas' psi magnet maybe and maybe if were lucky then lucarios force palm).

As far as I know from my help, Aura will not allow the equipping of the Jacket. Force Palm is a projectile attack too I think, it can be absorbed by Psi Magnets.

I don't think DeDeDe's stars work either.

Ness' Psi magnet has a windbox at extremely close range, if you set it up appropriatly, the jacket can be equiped.

Because Lucas's Psi magnet has a hitbox, I am not sure if it will work because of counter's range, or if it's a physical attack. However, Lucas has an AT with his psi magnet, if I'm correct, so perhaps Lucas has a windbox or some special property not yet explored.

 

[Darxmarth23]

what aoubt snakes upsmash?
what about his downsmash?

 

[Remzi]

I just tried this for the first time and it was in game online. I did it to a D3's inhale, I definitely noticed a significant increase in hitlag on my next strike. I wonder what potential uses this can have, I'm sure we can find something for it.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Really Umbra? You're using MK now? I'm not happy.

 

[Pierce7d]

Hey, do the stars from D3 work when trying to equip a jacket? Im just throwing out things to test for this AT. I was also thinking of Lucas and lucarios aura/psi moves. Im gonna take a wild guess and say neither will work (except lucas' psi magnet maybe and maybe if were lucky then lucarios force palm).

Psi Magnet sounds like it might work. All other moves you mentioned are projectiles (the end of Force Palm is a projectile I believe, while the near is a grab. Both the stars from D3 and Yoshi are projectiles. They can be reflected, and perhaps absorbed.

First thing to really make me think, how the **** did he find this?
other than IDC but that doesnt count, they got like a trillion ppl working on MK
very interesting and good to know

was Samus' Zair tested?

I pay attention, and study game mechanics. I tested no Zairs.

As far as I know from my help, Aura will not allow the equipping of the Jacket. Force Palm is a projectile attack too I think, it can be absorbed by Psi Magnets.

I don't think DeDeDe's stars work either.

Ness' Psi magnet has a windbox at extremely close range, if you set it up appropriatly, the jacket can be equiped.

Because Lucas's Psi magnet has a hitbox, I am not sure if it will work because of counter's range, or if it's a physical attack. However, Lucas has an AT with his psi magnet, if I'm correct, so perhaps Lucas has a windbox or some special property not yet explored.

Thanks bro.

what aoubt snakes upsmash?
what about his downsmash?

Upsmash is a projectile, or at least, the missile is. I don't think you'd be able to counter the mortar and miss, even if it counts. Dunno about Dsmash. Go try it out.

I just tried this for the first time and it was in game online. I did it to a D3's inhale, I definitely noticed a significant increase in hitlag on my next strike. I wonder what potential uses this can have, I'm sure we can find something for it.

Perhaps. It's a widely unexplored area of Brawl's mechanics. I'm sure there's plenty of stuff we don't know that may help this.

Really Umbra? You're using MK now? I'm not happy.

I am. He's much harder to beat now, and my win percentage has dropped down to somewhere around 60. I love it. I can't wait for him to become amazing. He's an anti-Marth MK, but not really a top MK yet, so it's fun to play him.

 

[Nightshine]

I just thought of this lol. I would go try it out but I'm grounded.

Anyway do you guys think you could test this out for me? Here it goes...

Ok so do you think its possible to somehow reflect the stun jacket upon yourself? Maybe if you have a marth somehow counter a counter. It might not work though because to counter the counter you'd be in range of hitting but maybe with Ike since his sword is longer than Marths.

The other question is can you give two stun jackets to one person? Like if two Marths both counter but both somehow miss. (it'd be pretty hard to acually pull that off) Then do you think that could cause a doubble stun jacket?

Also about Snakes dsmash counter. Even though I can't test it I jsut think it wouldn't cause a stun jacket mainly because when Marth counters a move like d3's inhale they both sorta stop. With Snakes dsmash its left there like a motion sensor bomb item. With that said nothing happens to Snake when you counter his dsmash so I believe it's considered to be what I call a "Non-throwable Projectile".

Even though nobody really plays with itmes on anymore can you guys possibly theorize if anything could go wrong if they had a franklin badge on? Since I'm pretty sure one of you has to be older than me then maybe you can think more outside the box than I can lol.

And my last question is this.

If you have the jacket and you go to hit someone but they shield then does the jacket disappear then? Or does it still stay with you until a hit is connected on your opponent?

(That was acually two questions in one...lol)


Unrelatted question here lol

Why can't I see some of the peoples avatar pictures? Like S.O.L.I.D.'s I can't see his.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Lol Pierce, good for you, I have no one remotely good to play, I hate it so much, it sucks being far and away the best out of all your friends and being able to win consistently. If I'm well focused I can 2 stock my friends consistently, and I'm not that great,they're just bad, and it's hard to train them if they don't use the same character as me (one uses Marth, I can train him, one uses Ike, I can train him, but the Weegee main is just on his own unfortunately.

 

[1170]

I feel for you solid. I can only consistently play against a lucario who refuses to learn anything about his character, or brawl in general (like, no combos, yeah). playing with him consists of me repeatedly trying new, incredible things only to have him punish them because they consist of nothing but dolphin slashes, shieldbreakers, and fsmashes. On the plus side, I have discovered that ds>sb>fsmash doesn't always work as a combo.

On a slightly related note, d3's inhale outprioritizes ganon's suction. If timed right, d3 and the suckee both get the superarmor and ganon misses, leaving him wide open for a mario to the face. New teams tactic, anyone?

 

[IDK]

nobody cares i got punched in the face lol. jk but the point of this post was to say i get it now.

 

[BacklashMarth]

nobody cares i got punched in the face lol. jk but the point of this post was to say i get it now.

You're right, I dont care that you got punched in the face. I care that you didnt do something about it.

P.S. I'd be willing to fight against you someday especially since i just recently decided to pick up MK. I need a helluva lot of work but i figure training against a marth is the way to go.

 

[Remzi]

Luckily my friend and training partner plays an excellent TL. So I always have competition. It'd be nice to have some more diversity, though. I've just recently run into some brawl players at school. I played a couple and I destroyed them pretty hard, but one of them appeared to know about the MK ban, so he is probably decent. I'm gonna try to play him and hopefully find another training partner.

 

[Pierce7d]

I'm short on time for right now, but

A) It's probably impossible for Marth to counter a counter if he threw the first attack and didn't use a projectile.

B) If you hit the shield, your opponent will receive shield stun, and you'll lose the jacket.

 

[Pierce7d]

Wow, guess what. Aether equips the jacket. Congratulations. Compliments to Ryko.

 

[Doomblaze]

This is one **** nice find

I actually read this about 10 minutes after you put it out the first time lol, but i was too busy to compliment you then, so

Good Job!!!

Ill show this to my friends tomorro when were all on a sugar high, and then ill see what the general populace of smash players think about this.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Wow, guess what. Aether equips the jacket. Congratulations. Compliments to Ryko.

If you Counter the throw up, or when Ike comes down?