Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
Congrats man!
-
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Social Stuff that ends in fair..... A Sheik Social Thread!
- Thread starter Teczer0
- Start date
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
Teach Vanz how to uthrow uair more imo
Thanks =D
And yea, I got 2nd cuz I forfeited to m2k because he was holding back the brawl backet by some crazy amount apparently.
And I stopped caring, kinda sucked people wanted to see me get bodied LOL
He taught me how to upthrow upair.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
This character is too hard. I'm learning Jigglypuff.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I'd rather take the real thing.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
Give up now KK, just go back to your easy ftilt fairs and dthrow chains. Puff is so heard to learn.
You know how long it takes to learn how to bair? It's not simple stuff. Puff is probably most technical character tbh
You know how long it takes to learn how to bair? It's not simple stuff. Puff is probably most technical character tbh
The Good Doctor
Smash Champion
Sometimes I feel the Falcon match-up is impossible, but thee next match I feel that that Sheik can't lose.
I'm so terribly inconsistent against that character....
='/
I'm so terribly inconsistent against that character....
='/
gm jack
Smash Lord
The trouble is falcon can do exactly the same back to sheik, so I find it becomes a battle of priority vs movement to land those first hits.
I really dislike the falcon match up, and I feel I rely entirely on being able to combo them when they make mistakes, as opposed to me knowing how to space well to force mistakes or apply pressure.
I really dislike the falcon match up, and I feel I rely entirely on being able to combo them when they make mistakes, as opposed to me knowing how to space well to force mistakes or apply pressure.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Make Falcon play around you. Not the other way around. It's pretty gay to walk around, pretend like you're going to commit, and then crouch or whatever.
If he platform camps just ignore him until they get bored or commit to something stupid. Opportunities to up air him and back air him will come up.
I think that while it does work to play by Falcon's rules and try to counter everything, it's way gayer to just ignore all his crap and walk around doing stuff that he can't really punish (you're gonna need to consider positioning when you play like this) and that can make you win if you hit him with them. Make him try to counter what you're doing.
He kind of has to 'overshoot' his grab in order to hit you with it (when you're crouching). Everything else in his ground moveset sucks against her crouch or sucks period.
Fair > crouch should be standard vs his shield. Use f-tilt if you see him jump out of shield to try and counterattack with stomp or whatever.
If he platform camps just ignore him until they get bored or commit to something stupid. Opportunities to up air him and back air him will come up.
I think that while it does work to play by Falcon's rules and try to counter everything, it's way gayer to just ignore all his crap and walk around doing stuff that he can't really punish (you're gonna need to consider positioning when you play like this) and that can make you win if you hit him with them. Make him try to counter what you're doing.
He kind of has to 'overshoot' his grab in order to hit you with it (when you're crouching). Everything else in his ground moveset sucks against her crouch or sucks period.
Fair > crouch should be standard vs his shield. Use f-tilt if you see him jump out of shield to try and counterattack with stomp or whatever.
I wrote a MU guide for Sheik against Falcon a while ago. If people want be to put it up here Im kinda sure I can find it on my computer.
Guess most people haven't seen my Sheik and the few videos that is uploaded (at least against Falcon) is really old but I know the MU really well.
Guess most people haven't seen my Sheik and the few videos that is uploaded (at least against Falcon) is really old but I know the MU really well.
Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
omggg I saw videos of your Sheik from Terebi
Soooo good
Also I didn't know you had 2 brothers o_O
Please post the guide!
stelzig
Smash Lord
I may have some friendlies with armadas sheik vs. rocky on my computer. I think they played a bit while I was recording anyway, but I think most of it was sheik dittos. If you want to see them, I can try to find them 
I did not feel so well the first half of the tournament. So I guess the matches was not so good but the later half of the tournament I feelt like I was back to my normal skills. So I guess we should wait and record some matches at Beauty 4 against Rocky/Mikehaggar.
Kaffei: I have 3 brothers and 7 sisters
But yeah 2 of my brothers are playing smash. The youngest one dosen't like smash but I guess if smash is still a live a couple years from now we can change that.
Kaffei: I have 3 brothers and 7 sisters
But yeah 2 of my brothers are playing smash. The youngest one dosen't like smash but I guess if smash is still a live a couple years from now we can change that.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
How do needles factor in ths MU other than gimping? Also, if you could bring out that Sheik vs Falcon guide, that would be awesome, Armada! :D
Kaffei
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2008
- Messages
- 7,048
OMG 10 siblings O.OI did not feel so well the first half of the tournament. So I guess the matches was not so good but the later half of the tournament I feelt like I was back to my normal skills. So I guess we should wait and record some matches at Beauty 4 against Rocky/Mikehaggar.
Kaffei: I have 3 brothers and 7 sisters
But yeah 2 of my brothers are playing smash. The youngest one dosen't like smash but I guess if smash is still a live a couple years from now we can change that.
Ground game: Sheiks ground game is really good against Falcon and something you should use more. CC is really good against some of Falcons approaches (You against Jeapie 2.17 and M2k vs Mango 7.23). F-tilt has a lot of priority and beat/trade with a lot of falcons stuff and is fast (Me against Nizro 3rd match 0.20 and 1.35 - 0.27 first match). Those f-tilts also beat nair (connect to grab) but I can´t find a perfect example on that atm. You should also use more needles they are great at rack up damage and many people start appraoching cause they are not patient enough (trust me). But be careful cause they are a bit slow so don´t use them to much when they are on close range
Arieal/Plattform game: CF has retarted priority/hitbox with that uair so don´t use plattforms much. Situation you can use plattforms is if you have Falcon on close range (m2k vs Mango 6.08) The reason why Sheiks use plattforms sometimes when falcon is close to the plattform (not under) is beacause Falcon can´t coming from more than one angle pretty much but if you stay on plattform when he is far away he can come from a lot more of angles AND your needles becomes less effective (close range =needles works - far away= not)
Both Fair and Bair is okay but don´t use those arielas more than your ground game. Bair is more safe and connect to grab sometimes. Fair is less safe but connect to grab too (Me against Nizro third game 0.09). I guess mix up between them is good but I go more for bair in generall cause it is more safe.
Dashdance: Something that is really important in this MU and this is your key to beat many appraoches from Falcon and then grab him (No example here. Really bad I only have the first set I played Sheik against Falcon recorded). This is really good but the spaceing is a bit tricky but this is REALLY good. You maybe wonder why you just can´t f-tilt from what you have read so far but this can happen (Armada vs Nizro 3rd match 2.13). Falcon can also run then shield grab your f-tilt (if you don´t space 100% correctly which is hard sience he runs into you). So mix up between those too.
Edguarding: Really important point and once he is out he should not get in. If Falcon is coming back Never use fair (Amsah vs Jeapie 2.47). Instead use (M2k vs Mango 7.28). Use M2ks example on high damage (cause you can´t combo) and dair when he has high % enough to give you a free combo. With that I mean use the dair like you does with Falco. Like you should be closer to the center of the stage after you jump from the edge then Falcon (so he can´t DI into the stage pretty much) cause this gives you a free fair or in worst case scenario bair (turn around needle cancel fair is usefull sometimes). And ofc use traditioal bair from the edge when "normal" situations comes. Next really important point with edgeguarding is staying on the ground (main key for the MU). Compare your example against Hax (1.20 and 5.06) (You against Jeapie 1.05) with (Armada vs Nizro 3rd match 3.30) (M2k vs Mango 4.57). I know you maybe say it is a bit different BUT Hax didn´t even reached the plattform so he can´t come from a angle you can´t cover with that f-tilt. Look at (Me against Nizro 3rd match 3.26) staying on the ground in those situations is really good too. Reason is that Sheik is way to Slow in the air so stay on the ground as much as possible (no plattforms is really good for Sheik but wait work on other stages too if they don´t have enough space to plattfrom cancel it you know. The only situations you should jump off stage is if Falcon is coming way to high from above to stay on the ground (M2k vs Mango 4.30).
Throws: Compare (you against Jeapie 0.40 and 2.01) with (You came all this way....) (Me against Nizro the 2 first stock 3rd match) No plattforms on those matches but I think you can see how effective d-thorw is so never use uppthrow. Falcon has the worst roll in the game so play on reaction allways and be patient. If Falcon is on a plattforms but haven´t teched and you are close (in the middle under the plattform) wait. He can´t escape at all.
DI: Really hard part of the MU but in generall I prefer DI down away from Falcons combos. Falcon seems to have a hard time to combo Sheik is you use this DI (but ofc mix up). If you have around 60 % Falcon will use upp throw and a really good thing to do is DI into him from the throw and DI away down on the uair (they will use knee if you DI like that all the time so be carefull) they can´t combo you. The reason is cause they have no speed from the Uair sience you DI into him from the throw. My experience against a lot of Falcons is why I belive this works really good.
Pressure: Falcons always use their jabs so jump is ofc not so good in any form. What to do is hard to say but I guess just wait and then try to do something but not jump out from it at least.
Combos: Except from the d-throw part use reactions. Maybe it is boring but 0-deth Falcon is so easy. You came all this way... and my 3rd match against Nizro proves a lot of reactions (and that video is really old and my Sheik is way better than that cause I used random stuff cause I didn´t know the MU really good back then). Like always wait for the roll THEN go. Falcon can´t do anything against it and it works every singles time. Wait then do normal Sheik combos. Reactions is underrated in generall but don´t use it against Falcon pretty much all the time is bad I think (okay if you have a perfect read/feeling go for it but not to often). Many Falcons don´t tech all the time so then I guess you have to go for uppsmash sometimes. That is not reaction but when I say "do that" ofc I mean in generall. Jab reset is overrated and Falcons smash DI it a lot (like a lot of exmaple excist in your set aganst Hax). A mindgame that works many times is just walking to them and pretend you are going for a jab then they smash DI and just walks up and you can grab again (use sheld if they by misstake use a button too).
Weird NTSC stuff: (M2k vs Mango 2.40) stuff like this you have to check up by yourself cause Im not so famaliar with ntsc Sheik.
Random stuff: You came all this way.... 0.28. Needles is really good and somehow hit Falcon sometimes even if he sweetspot way better than that example so if you are to far away to ht him eith anything else use that.
Matches I have been useing to help you with thise MU.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bL_irjGpfM - Amsah vs Jeapie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwVRRGbU8IM&feature=related - Armada against Nizro 3rd match
http://www.youtube.com/watch?src_vi...id=annotation_111110&v=rgmHr5vJKh8&feature=iv - Armada against Nizro first match
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpbCBT1TGdg - You cam all this way....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3CPw3Rc6hY - M2k vs Mango
I wrote this to Amsah a while ago so that's why it maybe looks a bit weird like Im talking to him but now you know why. Really hope this will help and maybe Tope or someone can fill something in if I have forgot something.
Would like to hear what you think about this MU guide.
Arieal/Plattform game: CF has retarted priority/hitbox with that uair so don´t use plattforms much. Situation you can use plattforms is if you have Falcon on close range (m2k vs Mango 6.08) The reason why Sheiks use plattforms sometimes when falcon is close to the plattform (not under) is beacause Falcon can´t coming from more than one angle pretty much but if you stay on plattform when he is far away he can come from a lot more of angles AND your needles becomes less effective (close range =needles works - far away= not)
Both Fair and Bair is okay but don´t use those arielas more than your ground game. Bair is more safe and connect to grab sometimes. Fair is less safe but connect to grab too (Me against Nizro third game 0.09). I guess mix up between them is good but I go more for bair in generall cause it is more safe.
Dashdance: Something that is really important in this MU and this is your key to beat many appraoches from Falcon and then grab him (No example here. Really bad I only have the first set I played Sheik against Falcon recorded). This is really good but the spaceing is a bit tricky but this is REALLY good. You maybe wonder why you just can´t f-tilt from what you have read so far but this can happen (Armada vs Nizro 3rd match 2.13). Falcon can also run then shield grab your f-tilt (if you don´t space 100% correctly which is hard sience he runs into you). So mix up between those too.
Edguarding: Really important point and once he is out he should not get in. If Falcon is coming back Never use fair (Amsah vs Jeapie 2.47). Instead use (M2k vs Mango 7.28). Use M2ks example on high damage (cause you can´t combo) and dair when he has high % enough to give you a free combo. With that I mean use the dair like you does with Falco. Like you should be closer to the center of the stage after you jump from the edge then Falcon (so he can´t DI into the stage pretty much) cause this gives you a free fair or in worst case scenario bair (turn around needle cancel fair is usefull sometimes). And ofc use traditioal bair from the edge when "normal" situations comes. Next really important point with edgeguarding is staying on the ground (main key for the MU). Compare your example against Hax (1.20 and 5.06) (You against Jeapie 1.05) with (Armada vs Nizro 3rd match 3.30) (M2k vs Mango 4.57). I know you maybe say it is a bit different BUT Hax didn´t even reached the plattform so he can´t come from a angle you can´t cover with that f-tilt. Look at (Me against Nizro 3rd match 3.26) staying on the ground in those situations is really good too. Reason is that Sheik is way to Slow in the air so stay on the ground as much as possible (no plattforms is really good for Sheik but wait work on other stages too if they don´t have enough space to plattfrom cancel it you know. The only situations you should jump off stage is if Falcon is coming way to high from above to stay on the ground (M2k vs Mango 4.30).
Throws: Compare (you against Jeapie 0.40 and 2.01) with (You came all this way....) (Me against Nizro the 2 first stock 3rd match) No plattforms on those matches but I think you can see how effective d-thorw is so never use uppthrow. Falcon has the worst roll in the game so play on reaction allways and be patient. If Falcon is on a plattforms but haven´t teched and you are close (in the middle under the plattform) wait. He can´t escape at all.
DI: Really hard part of the MU but in generall I prefer DI down away from Falcons combos. Falcon seems to have a hard time to combo Sheik is you use this DI (but ofc mix up). If you have around 60 % Falcon will use upp throw and a really good thing to do is DI into him from the throw and DI away down on the uair (they will use knee if you DI like that all the time so be carefull) they can´t combo you. The reason is cause they have no speed from the Uair sience you DI into him from the throw. My experience against a lot of Falcons is why I belive this works really good.
Pressure: Falcons always use their jabs so jump is ofc not so good in any form. What to do is hard to say but I guess just wait and then try to do something but not jump out from it at least.
Combos: Except from the d-throw part use reactions. Maybe it is boring but 0-deth Falcon is so easy. You came all this way... and my 3rd match against Nizro proves a lot of reactions (and that video is really old and my Sheik is way better than that cause I used random stuff cause I didn´t know the MU really good back then). Like always wait for the roll THEN go. Falcon can´t do anything against it and it works every singles time. Wait then do normal Sheik combos. Reactions is underrated in generall but don´t use it against Falcon pretty much all the time is bad I think (okay if you have a perfect read/feeling go for it but not to often). Many Falcons don´t tech all the time so then I guess you have to go for uppsmash sometimes. That is not reaction but when I say "do that" ofc I mean in generall. Jab reset is overrated and Falcons smash DI it a lot (like a lot of exmaple excist in your set aganst Hax). A mindgame that works many times is just walking to them and pretend you are going for a jab then they smash DI and just walks up and you can grab again (use sheld if they by misstake use a button too).
Weird NTSC stuff: (M2k vs Mango 2.40) stuff like this you have to check up by yourself cause Im not so famaliar with ntsc Sheik.
Random stuff: You came all this way.... 0.28. Needles is really good and somehow hit Falcon sometimes even if he sweetspot way better than that example so if you are to far away to ht him eith anything else use that.
Matches I have been useing to help you with thise MU.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bL_irjGpfM - Amsah vs Jeapie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwVRRGbU8IM&feature=related - Armada against Nizro 3rd match
http://www.youtube.com/watch?src_vi...id=annotation_111110&v=rgmHr5vJKh8&feature=iv - Armada against Nizro first match
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpbCBT1TGdg - You cam all this way....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3CPw3Rc6hY - M2k vs Mango
I wrote this to Amsah a while ago so that's why it maybe looks a bit weird like Im talking to him but now you know why. Really hope this will help and maybe Tope or someone can fill something in if I have forgot something.
Would like to hear what you think about this MU guide.
Beat!
Smash Master
Pretty amazing!
unknown522
Some guy
Nice.
Some things to add:
Vs falcon's missed tech, if your f-tilt isn't stale too much, then you can f-tilt and then go for another reaction tech chase when his percent is above the needed amount to knock him down. (25%?) Alternatively, you can just dash attack it an keep going for reaction tech chases. If he's close enough to the edge that you think he may edge-cancel, then you can just d-smash him off.
Also, d-tilt when falcon is at high percents sometimes for the kill setup. You can sneak it underneath his aerials a lot of times, or do it straight out of a CC
Some things to add:
Vs falcon's missed tech, if your f-tilt isn't stale too much, then you can f-tilt and then go for another reaction tech chase when his percent is above the needed amount to knock him down. (25%?) Alternatively, you can just dash attack it an keep going for reaction tech chases. If he's close enough to the edge that you think he may edge-cancel, then you can just d-smash him off.
Also, d-tilt when falcon is at high percents sometimes for the kill setup. You can sneak it underneath his aerials a lot of times, or do it straight out of a CC
silentSWAG
Smash Lord
wow... good job armada
I do want to see the sheik dittos even though they might not have been representative of mine or armada's best play, can you send them to me or upload as private please?I may have some friendlies with armadas sheik vs. rocky on my computer. I think they played a bit while I was recording anyway, but I think most of it was sheik dittos. If you want to see them, I can try to find them
stelzig
Smash Lord
I found some games during teams where you play a few with eagle afterwards as well. I'll upload all of these soon
Did you play during singles as well?
♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡
Anti-Illuminati
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2007
- Messages
- 1,863
I call this the Sheik main dilemma. It's when you suck, so you main an easy, low-tech-skill-required-to-win character. But then you realize that you still suck and Sheik is too hard, so you try to main jigglypuff.
After 2 months you realize you can't l-cancel with jigglypuff.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Jigglypuffs l-cancel?
Puff mains don't even play SSBM lmao you guys are ****ing horrible at like everything but you do okay periodically because of rest OHKOs and other bullcrap. Puffs routinely have like the worst habits out of every competitive character because Puff teaches you guys nothing about fundamentals because you can't be comboed and unless you herp derp super hard you probably don't get edgeguarded.
HBox is excluded from this 'cuz he's actually good. But honestly most of you are seriously ****ing bad at this game.
I think I have met about 1-2 people that actually enjoy playing Puff that are okay with her.
Rocky: Yeah for me it's no problem to upload those. It's just that I said I kinda know a lot of Sheik vs Falcon and then I had a guide so ofc I want to show good videos
Unknown: Yeah Im kinda bad at those % things and stale moves. But thanks for the advice. The video examples maybe is a bit old but it was hard to find great examples and it took mad long time to the guide anyway
Unknown: Yeah Im kinda bad at those % things and stale moves. But thanks for the advice. The video examples maybe is a bit old but it was hard to find great examples and it took mad long time to the guide anyway
unknown522
Some guy
Yeah, I understand. The vids aren't THAT old. But this game does change quite a bit
stelzig
Smash Lord
There weren't any falcon matches anyway.Rocky: Yeah for me it's no problem to upload those. It's just that I said I kinda know a lot of Sheik vs Falcon and then I had a guide so ofc I want to show good videos
Edit: Yeah... Seems like it wasn't even you or eagle (maybe not rocky either) playing, so I deleted it again. ****ing surprising though, but the sheik didn't play anywhere near well enough to be armada and eagle says it isn't him either... Just surprising that the third player would go from sheik to falcon and the player I thought would be eagle used marth, doc and samus. =/
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
You seem awfully upset about a joke in which I made fun of my own character. Sorry, I guess.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Apologies. I'm testy right now.
unknown522
Some guy
That's kirbykaze for you -_-
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Meh. Bite me.That's kirbykaze for you -_-
edit: I'm gonna ask Haley to ban me from SWF for a few weeks and see if staying away from this place puts me in a better mood. I think I spend too much time on the boards.
If you want to contact me, my information is listed.
Feel better Dave.
You can always IM me if you need to rant dude <3
You can always IM me if you need to rant dude <3
Bing
Smash Master
Oh dear :S
Well I'll miss having you call me dumb and gay.. not <3
Well I'll miss having you call me dumb and gay.. not <3
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
Now I feel bad
Sorry KK
Sorry KK
Bing
Smash Master
Its okay, he'll be on Unknown's account sooner or later