Social Stuff that ends in fair..... A Sheik Social Thread!

[SPAWN]

Post in the thread! :D

 

[AlcyoNite]

u all should just play ntsc

i would add 'lol' to the end of my sentence but im not kidding

 

[Jack of Blades!]

Amsah, what is the match up like for sheik against puff in NTSC for you?

Armada, you're awesome

 

[SPAWN]

Armada, by the way, I'll be playing you in NTSC just so we're clear haha. :D

 

[nicaboy]

Omg **** no sheik>jigs. I cant believe you guys.

Except for spwan I believe everything that guy says cuz he almost beat lucky <.<

 

[Teczer0]

Spawn.. did beat lucky though

 

[nicaboy]

He did?

spawn you are my god!

 

[Nihonjin]

Amsah, what is the match up like for sheik against puff in NTSC for you?

Jiggs >> Sheik in any and every way possible..>.>

 

[Teczer0]

Amsah - Are you claiming Jiggs has more ninja skills than an actual ninja?

 

[SPAWN]

He did?

spawn you are my god!

Yeah man, Pound 4 3rd bracket, ended up beating Lucky (2-1 just barely), Thumbswayup (thanks Seb ), and vudujin. I lost to dmac, got ***** by Linguini, and lost to Chu (he actually didn't **** me that bad, it was like a 1 stock low damage both games).

I'm still upset I lost to dmac urgh, oh well. Live and learn.


Also, I believe everything KK says, well, because he beats way too many people to not be believable. I believe a lot of what Amsah says, and I believe random facts from M2k.

Aka, imo, Jiggs>Sheik. If you can play perfectly with needles and not mess up then sure you can argue that Jiggs loses to Sheik... but chances of that happening are pretty unlikely.

When you are at 0-50 you have a high possibility of getting rested because a lot of Puff's moves combo into rest for the specific weight of Sheik (other chars too, but ik Sheik really gets combo'd hard). When you are at 50, if you get fthrow/bthrown/get offstage, you have an extremely high chance of dying depending if the Jiggs wants that kill badly enough (then she'll rest), or she'll keep hitting you and you have a possibility of living... for a little bit longer.

Just my two cents. There's a lot more reasons why Jiggs beats Sheik that I'll let KK get into since he's smrt.

 

[KirbyKaze]

When I look at the two biggest aspects of the matchup, this is what I come up with usually.

Punishment - Heavily Jigglypuff favoured. Jigglypuff is amazing in this respect because of Rest combos, edgeguard setups, Uair combos, and Bair combos. Sheik combos fail on Puff unless Puff is horrible. Grab combos also fail because grab fails. Sheik's fully charged U-smash doesn't KO until like 75% on FD with DI so you can't really automatic ****-punish accurate-Resting Puffs in the same manner that Fox (and friends) can. You can't even depend on repeat tech chase setups like Falco Dair --> Dair repeat or his raw damage output on Rest punishes because Sheik doesn't have anything for force techs.

Neutral Position - Needles are good. Sheik is good in this respect. Her neutral position is good against virtually everyone because of her range and camping. This is not too different against Puff, except you can't do ground moves at all because her basic defense (shield, crouch) trumps your ground moveset as a whole. You wind up having to do aerials only. Which isn't exactly awful but then you're depending on her poor aerial mobility and Jigglypuff's Bair does have some good priority on it and wins if they're on the same horizontal plane. The answer to this is to get above or under, but getting under isn't always an option (see: FD) and getting above means going on a platform, which in turn gives Puff a very easy amazing position to be (directly under the platform to abuse Uair disjointed priority). Overall I think Sheik is better in the neutral stance, but she's not as good as she usually is. It's easy for Puff to create situations where she's heavily favoured (ducking in front of a shield, being under a platform, etc). Despite having an angled projectile, Puff can, in fact, do a good job camping if she's ahead by positioning herself in a way that the air needles will be blocked by an overhanging platform and then ducking when Sheik throws grounded needles.

Because of this, I think Puff > Sheik.

I don't think it warrants a secondary -- I think it's winnable. But I really wouldn't be surprised if people started picking up Fox or whatever for the matchup.

 

[AlcyoNite]

When I look at the two biggest aspects of the matchup, this is what I come up with usually.

Punishment - Heavily Jigglypuff favoured. Jigglypuff is amazing in this respect because of Rest combos, edgeguard setups, Uair combos, and Bair combos. Sheik combos fail on Puff unless Puff is horrible. Grab combos also fail because grab fails. Sheik's fully charged U-smash doesn't KO until like 75% on FD with DI so you can't really automatic ****-punish accurate-Resting Puffs in the same manner that Fox (and friends) can. You can't even depend on repeat tech chase setups like Falco Dair --> Dair repeat or his raw damage output on Rest punishes because Sheik doesn't have anything for force techs.

Neutral Position - Needles are good. Sheik is good in this respect. Her neutral position is good against virtually everyone because of her range and camping. This is not too different against Puff, except you can't do ground moves at all because her basic defense (shield, crouch) trumps your ground moveset as a whole. You wind up having to do aerials only. Which isn't exactly awful but then you're depending on her poor aerial mobility and Jigglypuff's Bair does have some good priority on it and wins if they're on the same horizontal plane. The answer to this is to get above or under, but getting under isn't always an option (see: FD) and getting above means going on a platform, which in turn gives Puff a very easy amazing position to be (directly under the platform to abuse Uair disjointed priority). Overall I think Sheik is better in the neutral stance, but she's not as good as she usually is. It's easy for Puff to create situations where she's heavily favoured (ducking in front of a shield, being under a platform, etc). Despite having an angled projectile, Puff can, in fact, do a good job camping if she's ahead by positioning herself in a way that the air needles will be blocked by an overhanging platform and then ducking when Sheik throws grounded needles.

Because of this, I think Puff > Sheik.

I don't think it warrants a secondary -- I think it's winnable. But I really wouldn't be surprised if people started picking up Fox or whatever for the matchup.

I mean,

not that I would expect you to know but

winnable how, exactly?

 

[KirbyKaze]

I mean I think at high level Sheik can beat Jigglypuff. She's just not allowed to make mistakes almost at all and must also be good at the matchup.

edit -- Winnable how? Do you mean what do you do? I don't think it's exactly complicated. You just camp needles on platforms and try to trick Jigglypuff into getting above you. Once she's above you, you hit her as much as you can without putting yourself at risk. You then repeat this until the game is over. On occasion you go above her (not directly above her, clearly) with Needle --> Fair or run off Fair from the platform.

Shield will also be used a lot because you can't really CC punish anything she does. Crouch --> D-tilt sometimes sneaks under aerials if they like the air too much.

 

[AlcyoNite]

I mean I think at high level Sheik can beat Jigglypuff. She's just not allowed to make mistakes almost at all and must also be good at the matchup.

edit -- Winnable how? Do you mean what do you do? I don't think it's exactly complicated. You just camp needles on platforms and try to trick Jigglypuff into getting above you. Once she's above you, you hit her as much as you can without putting yourself at risk. You then repeat this until the game is over. On occasion you go above her (not directly above her, clearly) with Needle --> Fair or run off Fair from the platform.

Shield will also be used a lot because you can't really CC punish anything she does. Crouch --> D-tilt sometimes sneaks under aerials if they like the air too much.

fair enough

 

[SPAWN]

I'm really glad you posted all of that KK. That's what I was thinking, just not so bluntly/clearly. :D

Tec0, add it to the OP in the other thread. xD

 

[soap]

When I look at the two biggest aspects of the matchup, this is what I come up with usually.

Punishment - Heavily Jigglypuff favoured. Jigglypuff is amazing in this respect because of Rest combos, edgeguard setups, Uair combos, and Bair combos. Sheik combos fail on Puff unless Puff is horrible. Grab combos also fail because grab fails. Sheik's fully charged U-smash doesn't KO until like 75% on FD with DI so you can't really automatic ****-punish accurate-Resting Puffs in the same manner that Fox (and friends) can. You can't even depend on repeat tech chase setups like Falco Dair --> Dair repeat or his raw damage output on Rest punishes because Sheik doesn't have anything for force techs.

Neutral Position - Needles are good. Sheik is good in this respect. Her neutral position is good against virtually everyone because of her range and camping. This is not too different against Puff, except you can't do ground moves at all because her basic defense (shield, crouch) trumps your ground moveset as a whole. You wind up having to do aerials only. Which isn't exactly awful but then you're depending on her poor aerial mobility and Jigglypuff's Bair does have some good priority on it and wins if they're on the same horizontal plane. The answer to this is to get above or under, but getting under isn't always an option (see: FD) and getting above means going on a platform, which in turn gives Puff a very easy amazing position to be (directly under the platform to abuse Uair disjointed priority). Overall I think Sheik is better in the neutral stance, but she's not as good as she usually is. It's easy for Puff to create situations where she's heavily favoured (ducking in front of a shield, being under a platform, etc). Despite having an angled projectile, Puff can, in fact, do a good job camping if she's ahead by positioning herself in a way that the air needles will be blocked by an overhanging platform and then ducking when Sheik throws grounded needles.

Because of this, I think Puff > Sheik.

I don't think it warrants a secondary -- I think it's winnable. But I really wouldn't be surprised if people started picking up Fox or whatever for the matchup.

**** son this is a depressing read.

i've been thinking about switching to marth for this matchup reason being i play almost exactly the same as with sheik but the flaws are gone. U can safely dtilt and space fairs, even grab.

killing is a bit annoying but u can just not go for kill moves and repeatedly poke her to death.

 

[SPAWN]

I've been switching to Falco for the matchup recently because I don't like losing to Jiggs players I know I shouldn't lose to. I guess I'll learn the matchup... but...

with Falco, I feel like the matchup is a breeze because instead of having to camp perfectly, you just have to shoot lasers until they come to you and then when they come to you you get to **** them with your ridiculous bair.

 

[Teczer0]

Personally I just pick fox.

For everything....

Spoiler

Mainly cuz I haven't been playing sheik =(

 

[KirbyKaze]

**** son this is a depressing read.

i've been thinking about switching to marth for this matchup reason being i play almost exactly the same as with sheik but the flaws are gone. U can safely dtilt and space fairs, even grab.

killing is a bit annoying but u can just not go for kill moves and repeatedly poke her to death.

I don't really mean to sound depressing. I think Sheik has some good things going for her, Puff just shuts down most of her usual stuff and has more overall as a result.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

He did?

spawn you are my god!

spawn is terrible

 

[Armada]

Spawn: Apex is a tournament with NTSC so of course we will play NTSC.

A couple months before Apex i will just play NTSC ( at least in friendlis).

Nihonjin: You can´t be serious,
Stop trolling so much.

 

[SPAWN]

Yedi-$20 mm? ;P <3

I just didn't want to get ***** extra hard. xD

 

[nicaboy]

Good stuff spawn im sure you could have made it into bracket if your able to beat lucky with sheik.

Beat fox lose to ganon what is this. Seriously though sheik ganon is god awful 65-35(maybe 60-40) imo. I just gotta beat kage then i can assure myself how good i am against ganon specifically. I get alot of ganon and fox training (flamin roy spider sense and linguni) and some other less notable people.

Well regarding jigs i still think it either sheik>jigs or even but i dont care to go into detail since many sheik players feel differently from myself. I did manage for hungrybox to say i played this particular match better than amsah him self which made me feel good. But i assured that amsah is way better than me lol. He told me i was the only sheik in 2 years to come close to beating him and he kept asking me how do i even approach. Said i play the match up weird. Linguini even said i play ganon sheik really weired lmao.



I feel sheik can just really easily avoid bad situations since she forces jigs approach aside from having to recover . Again i dont care to go into details but eh its cool. Im glad at least release that sheik can win the match up.

And saidly im probably not the best shiek vs jigs its properly teczero(yea i said it)
Im gonna prove myself as a sheik player one day watch. If all else fails I will just go back to peach <.<

 

[KirbyKaze]

To clarify, I don't think I've ever said it's unwinnable I just don't think it's good for our favourite ninja...

Amsah is horrible against Jigglypuff.

 

[nicaboy]

I never said you said that

to clarify

 

[KirbyKaze]

5 am johns.

I feel Peach, Falco, Marth, and Fox are natural secondary characters for Sheik. They seem to perform well against many of the characters that she might feel uncomfortable fighting.

 

[SPAWN]

Can we go into the Ganon MU again? I really suck vs Ganon for some reason and I don't understand it.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Copy Amsah, only don't fail the CG.

 

[SPAWN]

Okay .

 

[KirbyKaze]

Also D-throw U-smash if he DIs behind you at like 90ish it'll KO.

 

[Nihonjin]

Nihonjin: You can´t be serious,
Stop trolling so much.

I'm not trolling!

To clarify, I don't think I've ever said it's unwinnable I just don't think it's good for our favourite ninja...

It's not unwinnable of course, there's no 0 - 100 matchup in this game, but the odds aren't exactly in Sheiks favor. Like PAL Peach, you die for every 2 or 3 mistakes you make, where as you have to catch the Puff making at least 10 mistakes before you take a stock. A 1:5 ratio isn't exactly impossible, but it does take something extraordinary (or a really crappy Puff).

Amsah is horrible against Jigglypuff.

No comment..:embarrass

 

[Kira-]

It's not unwinnable of course, there's no 0 - 100 matchup in this game, but the odds aren't exactly in Sheiks favor. Like PAL Peach, you die for every 2 or 3 mistakes you make, where as you have to catch the Puff making at least 10 mistakes before you take a stock. A 1:5 ratio isn't exactly impossible, but it does take something extraordinary (or a really crappy Puff).

this is why ICs > sheik too

still don't get how people think it's even

 

[pockyD]

because ICs are terrible

 

[nicaboy]

5 am johns.

I feel Peach, Falco, Marth, and Fox are natural secondary characters for Sheik. They seem to perform well against many of the characters that she might feel uncomfortable fighting.

no mofo johns!

Can we go into the Ganon MU again? I really suck vs Ganon for some reason and I don't understand it.

He such a slow character. Abuse needles when afar and from time to time in the air. Look for the grab oppurtunitues there always there man. Dont fall for cc d tilts counter with cc d smash or just stay out of range it when they do it grab Im sure you know how to do this but learn to wd oos. you can sometimes counter f airs with wd oos f tilt. when your cg ganon can avoid another grab but not a tilt from like 45-52% or something like that. If you see an awkward di upwards or slightly in front of you tilt combo to f air. Dont fall for double jump bull ****. You can crouch under his jab and grab and grab him your self. And the best advice i ever got was from kira. Approach with shield. It great

Copy Amsah, only don't fail the CG.

this too

Also D-throw U-smash if he DIs behind you at like 90ish it'll KO.

I abuse so much.

edit or linguini just plays the match up really good man. He almost beat amsah in pools and overtriforce in bracket so dont feel too bad

 

[Tope]

Imma agree with Nicaboy that sheik > jiggs (but from watching that set online the only reason you got close to beating hungrybox was because he was playing god awful... like seriously jump off BF and miss a rest lmao)

Losing dthrow and losing knockback on fair and uair in PAL sucks when fighting peach but I don't think the match up is as bad as Amsah claims (I could definitely see at least 55-45 in peaches favor tho)

Wonder what itd be like to fight jiggs with pal sheik lmao

also lucky doesnt even look that good to me ( how he beat PP after getting 4 stocked in the first match is beyond me) but i have a lot of fox training

 

[KirbyKaze]

U-tilt --> Uairs is great on Ganon's awkward non DI and slight DIs if you're too lazy to learn the full chain grab. You can string a whole bunch of Uairs and other shenanigans. It's not hard finishing with Fair, either, since no Ganon ever DIs away. So just go wild with combo damage and eventually setup an edgeguard.

If you get in on him, just do your faster moves safely until he does something dumb like try to challenge it with his slow aerial or shield grab (body contortions, some kinds of tilts, and duck trump this) and then **** him.

Why did this thread become a strategy thread. I thought this was the Anime thread.

Tope there's no knockback reduction on Fair. Just Uair and the garbage D-throw.

 

[Tope]

well **** then it isn't even as bad as I thought lol.... i kill peach with fair more than any other move

clearly the secret to defeating armada is peach ditto him, i watched doll run a train on him in a friendly XD

 

[KirbyKaze]

Doll's dainty hands are surprisingly powerful. His wrist flick will end you.

 

[Tope]

I'm well aware, I lived with him for 2 years, and got all the expert peach practice... XD Armada MM when I see you

 

[AlcyoNite]

I'm well aware, I lived with him for 2 years, and got all the expert peach practice... XD Armada MM when I see you

then i want to play doll

does he still live near u?