Stuff About Puff

[idea]

if i remember correctly, you can rest kirby out of kirby's dthrow. i have done this before, but i'm not sure if it always works.

and i tried the powershielding thing today...it works and is pretty easy but i suck at it anyway =P

 

[KirbyKaze]

Kirby can be rested for d-throwing.

 

[momochuu]

I picked up Melee again today, and haven't touched Jiggs in years. Even when I played her, I just messed around.

Is she a tough character to use competitively?

 

[GSUB]

I picked up Melee again today, and haven't touched Jiggs in years. Even when I played her, I just messed around.

Is she a tough character to use competitively?

Everyone goes Fox on you, then you LOSE.

unless your name is HungryBox or Mango.

 

[Tamoo]

Lol rip, i wouldn’t say im a scrub anymore tho, but i certainly was about 6 months ago when i couldn’t even lcancel, but i was powershielding like a ***** hehe.

Can ppl critique this vid of me playing at a tournament last weekend. This was the only vid of the whole tournament lol so i got quite lucky at least one of my matches was recorded. This marth may seem scrubby but he came 13th at Smack (a large European tournament) so he's definitely talented, and he plays dirty as hell hehe, and is like 2nd best marth in the UK. Oh, and I know I missed two GOLDEN rest opportunities so you don’t need to critique me on that because I know i screwed up there but more for general gameplay instead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AUvXgy6i5E

cheers jiggs boards

 

[HT F8]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AUvXgy6i5E

cheers jiggs boards

a few random things;

if you're both offstage, but they're closer to the stage than you, go for a pound, not fair/bair. pound will send them behind you, ripe for a wop or edgeguard.

space your aerials a bit better. you landed right infront of him quite a few times, and he got a few grabs because of it. aerial -> drift away, or aerial -> land behind them. you may know this already and just messed up a bit, idk. :]

you got a lot of grabs in. good stuff. maybe toss some dthrows in there for variation? dthrow uair is nice.

you stagespiked him, but you died too. why? did he dair or something? idk

oos rest marf's fsmash if you're close enough. rest his recovery if possible. risky though, tippers are painful. :[

i like nair/bair vs marf at low-med% cause with fair he'll usually just fair you right after he gets hit :[ gay

vs marf, use the marf edgeguard if he tries to sweetspot. roll to the edge, put up the lightshield, di towards the side your opponent is offstage. he'll hit your shield and you'll fall and grab the edge.

nair -> fsmash is cute, i think i saw you try it once

uair ***** marf

wavedash oos. hard on tiny stage with gay marf but its good for spacing. run up, shield his smash, wd towards and grab or rest or something cute

i suck so feel free to correct me if need be, fellow puffs :]

edit: oh and my bad Tamoo if you know any of this stuff, im not like talking down to you lolol. just pointing stuff out just in case.
also, cstick spamming marf is gay as ****

 

[Tamoo]

haha no F8, I take all advice from anyone, regardless of skill or knowledge as long as what they say is useful to me. Cheers man.
Yeah cstick spam on yoshi's is particularly painful, especially if he knows how to spam it hehe
I certainly should be spacing better , I think what I was trying to do was crouch after the arial but maybe that isnt quick enough.
And that stagespike was really weird, neither of us, nor any of the ppl watching understood what happened, rather weird indeed.

Thanks a lot for your comments man

 

[inditled]

Kirby can be rested for d-throwing.

it only works if you have like less than 60% but the kirby i play oftan already learned his lesson that way

 

[idea]

i dunno, nothing really stood out as being "wrong"...you could probably stand to be a bit faster, though. i mean, fastfall stuff more, put more pressure on the marth.

the marth could have been playing the matchup better, i think =P he probably should have spammed fair more, +other stuff. so what you were doing was working, but probably wouldn't if the marth were playing more defensively, which marth generally should against jiggs.

why so much nair?

and...i don't think i saw you grab the edge on him at any point. it's kind of awkward but really good for edgeguarding marth. i didn't feel right doing that until i forced myself to try grabbing the edge against him sometimes, and now that i'm used to it it's really helpful.

oh, and for the stagespike thing, my guess is you reverse faired him, he hit under the tip of the edge and died (pretty sure that can happen <_<), and you were still in lag from the fair/surprised/yoshi's' pit is really high.

 

[Tamoo]

Cheers idea,
the marth has had years of mu experience with fuzzyness so i presume he must have some knowledge of the mu, he is naturally aggressive tho, all london marths are
Ive always liked nair vs marth, autocancels provoke shieldgrabs, could lead to rest if theyre not expecting it etc.
And yeah, should work on my edgeguarding more, edgehanging marth does **** him indeed. Did it on the last stock a lot more but coulda done it much more

My guess on the stagespike thing at the time was that as the marth got stagespiked, he ricoched into me, sending me down too, dunno if thats possible though :s

 

[Massive]

Sing lets you grab the ledge facing backwards. It also allows you to grab it further below the stage than normal, making it possible to sweetspot the ledge without getting fsmashed/bair'd/dair'd (DOESN'T WORK WELL ON F*CKING BATTLEFIELD).

You can also do a brawl-style run off > insta-ledgehog with sing (this is well documented already).
The usefulness is debatable, but it's pretty cool looking used properly.

 

[Tamoo]

Tip: Dont do this all the time, especially against marth.
Your hurtbox increases massively whilst doing this, and marth can easilly tipper you, so its very risky

 

[Massive]

Tip: Dont do this all the time, especially against marth.
Your hurtbox increases massively whilst doing this, and marth can easilly tipper you, so its very risky

Yeah, that's why you sweetspot the ledge with it, lol.
I use it on Marths/Falcons pretty consistently, and it effectively removes his/their ability to punish approaching the ledge. It also means you can grab the ledge without that final extra jump that leaves your head peeking over.

 

[idea]

Cheers idea,
the marth has had years of mu experience with fuzzyness so i presume he must have some knowledge of the mu, he is naturally aggressive tho, all london marths are

fair enough. preference thing, then.

Tip: Dont do this all the time, especially against marth.
Your hurtbox increases massively whilst doing this, and marth can easilly tipper you, so its very risky

marth can tipper you way below the stage anyway. i pretty much always sing to catch the edge. and the catching it backwards thing has gotten me some edgeguards before.

 

[Tamoo]

I just never try to get the edge at all if i can help it against marth, I prefer to just advance to the middle of the stage above him. I just always seem to get tippered when singing to edge. If i must get the edge, I use four of my jumps so that jiggs gets smaller on the 5th jump and cant get hit. Thank god for jiggs getting smaller the more jumps she uses, so **** useful lol

 

[KirbyKaze]

it only works if you have like less than 60% but the kirby i play oftan already learned his lesson that way

Did you attempt fast falling on him first and then doing it when you were over 60?

I think that might work.

 

[The Good Doctor]

Did you attempt fast falling on him first and then doing it when you were over 60?

I think that might work.

Kirby is bad....haha
didn't know this before, but i never play against Kirby...

 

[RestInPeace]

Tamoo, I have two things, and they're both revolving around your edge game.

1) Lightshield that Marth. You had a few nice opportunities.

2) You don't always have to roll for the edge guard. You can just get on top, and just stand up. That way, you can rest/grab/bair/etc. Also, you can try just ledge hopping backwards, and he'll land on top of the stage for you to do anything (only if you know he'll be going for the edge).

3) lol I'm a scrub.

 

[The Good Doctor]

haha no F8, I take all advice from anyone, regardless of skill or knowledge as long as what they say is useful to me. Cheers man.
Yeah cstick spam on yoshi's is particularly painful, especially if he knows how to spam it hehe
I certainly should be spacing better , I think what I was trying to do was crouch after the arial but maybe that isnt quick enough.
And that stagespike was really weird, neither of us, nor any of the ppl watching understood what happened, rather weird indeed.

Thanks a lot for your comments man

He had so many options, but for some reason didn't think your N-Air would come out that fast.....

I have to say it though, when he countered....yeah....

 

[Tamoo]

Haha yeah i know lol, Ive just had bad experiences attacking counters before, that thing lasts for rediculously long! Tbh, i think me not resting that fsmash was 10x worse anyway hehe

And cheers RIP, Ive never really experimented with the lightshield trixies, my crew mates always do it but ive neva bothered for some reason, ill probs start trying to implement it into my game

 

[idea]

Tamoo, I have two things,

3) lol I'm a scrub.

i agree with point 2, though...only roll to edgeguard people when they're too far to make it back onstage, or when you need it to take a long time.

 

[GSUB]

i agree with point 2, though...only roll to edgeguard people when they're too far to make it back onstage, or when you need it to take a long time.

I disagree.
Lightshield edgeguard will either kill them, or force them to land on stage for an easy rest.
(Assuming they're out of a jump etc.)

 

[HT F8]

I disagree.
Lightshield edgeguard will either kill them, or force them to land on stage for an easy rest.
(Assuming they're out of a jump etc.)

I agree, lightshield edgeguard ***** Marth. Their only real options are to fair you before Up-B'ing (if theyre in range) or land on the stage and get Pounded or Rested. ^_^

If i must get the edge, I use four of my jumps so that jiggs gets smaller on the 5th jump and cant get hit. Thank god for jiggs getting smaller the more jumps she uses, so **** useful lol

Wow I totally forgot this. Thanks for bringing it up.

Yeah, that's why you sweetspot the ledge with it, lol.
I use it on Marths/Falcons pretty consistently, and it effectively removes his/their ability to punish approaching the ledge. It also means you can grab the ledge without that final extra jump that leaves your head peeking over.

Never thought of this before. I'm guessing you approach the ledge from below and then Up-B right when you get close enough to the bottom of the ledge. Good ****.

 

[inditled]

Did you attempt fast falling on him first and then doing it when you were over 60?

I think that might work.

yea O_O i dont remeber exact percentages but it didnt work to well and ended up with my getting utaped. ah well nevermind kirby sucks O_O

 

[RestInPeace]

The best option if you're still on-stage would just be light shield edgeguard. There's nothing they can do if they used their jump already. If they didn't, just fullshield their Fair, and make it light again after it. You can do that by pressing your R/L button almost all the way, but before you hear the click. This will keep it a light shield. If you press it all the way down, it will be a full, hard shield.

Note that I'm only doing this on theory. I've never done that before, but it looks like it should work.

 

[idea]

I disagree.
Lightshield edgeguard will either kill them, or force them to land on stage for an easy rest.
(Assuming they're out of a jump etc.)

oh, no, i meant pressing L or R while holding the edge, that kind of rolling. usually better to stand up as long as you can time it correctly, but the extra "it thinks i'm holding the edge" time can be useful too. vs. marth i find that if i roll he can often buffer shield in time or something.

lightshield edgehog is a really good thing to do.

 

[KirbyKaze]

yea O_O i dont remeber exact percentages but it didnt work to well and ended up with my getting utaped. ah well nevermind kirby sucks O_O

Just curious.

I wanted to know.

 

[Tamoo]

So from what ive gathered from the last couple of posts, the optimal edgeguard if the marth has to use a jump and an upb to recover is to lightshield on the edge whilst tilting the shield to side, and then punishing his landing lag.

What is the optimal edgeguard if marth only needs a jump to recover. What I would personally do is jump out and bait a fair or side b, then punish the afterlag with most likely a bair, or a weak fair to nair. What are other ppls opinions on this?

 

[dudutsai]

What is the optimal edgeguard if marth only needs a jump to recover. What I would personally do is jump out and bait a fair or side b, then punish the afterlag with most likely a bair, or a weak fair to nair. What are other ppls opinions on this?

This works well, but keep in mind that if Marth chooses to up b you, it will mess up any punish you had in mind.
If he lands on the stage then I sometimes cc fsmash

 

[Tamoo]

Thats why you bait and react, he's only got a few options, all of which pretty much involve using an attack to hit you away. Therefore, if he fairs or sidebs, go in for it in the afterlag. If he up bs, then punish him on his way down. if he jumps and fairs, Id retreat and repeat, cos he's likely to sideb when you come back at him again.

Well thats what I try to do anyway.

 

[dudutsai]

The marths I play do this tricky thing where they fair first, but not while getting closer, then if I try to punish or edgehog he nicks me with his up B, usually unsweetspotted, just to mess up my punish. I don't really know what to do against it.

 

[Tamoo]

So he's just fairing whilst dropping down straight?
If you are close to the edge, try to fair him as he is dropping down after his fair, then sing and drop down to grab the edge if you are vaguely level with the ledge. Cant really help you too much here cos im not quite sure what the marth is doing lol

One other thing i find if i am below the stage and trying to nick the marth away, I think that if you leave a nair hitbox out and he upb into you, you trade hits, sending you up and him away, not sure how reliable this is though so try it out in friendlies first.

 

[stackOverflow]

I don't wanna interrupt the marth edgegaurd discussion, but I just quickly wanted to ask how yo can keep jumping forward in the air while not turning around. I keep turning around but i want to use bairs. If i keep using bairs i dont turn around for some reason, but if i just do an empty jump i do. Thanks in advance for the advice.

 

[Tamoo]

The only way i can think of doing it is to quickly let go of the control stick before pressing x or y, then resuming to hold back after having pressed the jump button.
Can get annoying at times but I'd rather have this ability than not lol

 

[stackOverflow]

ya, i thought that might be the only way, it kinda slows you down a lil though

 

[Tamoo]

Oh, and I believe the reason you dont turn around if you bair as you jump backwards is that you are cancelling the turnaround animation with a move. There must be a certain number of frames in which you can cancel the turnaround with an action

 

[stackOverflow]

Oh ok, ya mabye ill do a bair anyway cuz theres nothing worse than doing a baby fair instead of a bair and getting a marth fsmash

 

[dudutsai]

You can't turn around while doing a move so just input any move while DI'ing full towards the edge and you won't turn around. bair is the fastest move for this.

 

[idea]

So from what ive gathered from the last couple of posts, the optimal edgeguard if the marth has to use a jump and an upb to recover is to lightshield on the edge whilst tilting the shield to side, and then punishing his landing lag.

What is the optimal edgeguard if marth only needs a jump to recover. What I would personally do is jump out and bait a fair or side b, then punish the afterlag with most likely a bair, or a weak fair to nair. What are other ppls opinions on this?

he could still go low and up-b =P i think one of the reasons it can be hard to edgeguard marth is cause jiggs can't refresh invincibility very quickly. marth can often wait you out with side-b's and floatiness.

the jumping out with aerials stuff rarely works for me cause marth's fair is faster than those aerials, so i have to make it look like i'm not about to fair him. i guess you have to make the marth think he has to wait offstage to be safe, and then grab the edge once he's wasted some time/possibly jumped.

but mostly, i don't really know how i edgeguard him...i just kind of make it up as i go. i do whatever i can to try to grab the edge, but beyond that i guess i'll have to take note of it next time i play europhoria. doesn't help that that guy's good at recovering in general.

oh, and for lightshield hog with jiggs, i think you have to fastfall it (since she's so light).

One other thing i find if i am below the stage and trying to nick the marth away, I think that if you leave a nair hitbox out and he upb into you, you trade hits, sending you up and him away, not sure how reliable this is though so try it out in friendlies first.

if not always, this usually works. but it's kind of hard to time, since, again, marth has lots of stuff he can do to recover. you have to time it so that he doesn't catch you as you release the edge but haven't started nairing, and so that he can't wait till the nair finishes.

also, now that i think of it...nair is a long move, but most of it is weak, so it won't prevent marth from getting back till high %. maybe if you naired and did other stuff, but nair is a long move so you won't have time =P AND to do the strong hit, you would have to fall off the edge, jump, and nair just before he up-b's, which is hard cause he can up-b way faster than you can release edge + jump + nair.

i wasn't sure why i haven't been doing this but i think i just realized why, haha. look at all the reasons it could not work.

I don't wanna interrupt the marth edgegaurd discussion, but I just quickly wanted to ask how yo can keep jumping forward in the air while not turning around. I keep turning around but i want to use bairs. If i keep using bairs i dont turn around for some reason, but if i just do an empty jump i do. Thanks in advance for the advice.

press A (or c-stick) faster.
*agrees with skimmed version of what other people said on this*

 

[stackOverflow]

i was talking about doing an empty jump without turning around