RestInPeace
Smash Ace
Therefore you bait a grab with shield, and Nair OoS?
And Fox Jiggs T_T. Stupid KirbyKaze wrecked me lol.
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Stuff About Puff
- Thread starter MaNg0
- Start date
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And Fox Jiggs T_T. Stupid KirbyKaze wrecked me lol.
idea
Smash Master
don't worry about it, he still 3-stocks me regularly with his fox.
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
lol I heard funny things about your Jiggs vs Mike's Fox.
idea
Smash Master
like what?
i was playing his fox today. seems like i only like that matchup sometimes. it helps when the fox's tech skill is off =P
unknown522
Some guy
I forgot he was logged in.
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
I like Jiggs vs Fox. Its fun, because every mistake gets you owned.
and I hear a lot of UThrow Uairs.
and I hear a lot of UThrow Uairs.
dudutsai
Smash Lord
Fox is my worst matchup. You really have to know what you are doing or else you get *****. If you know what you're doing it's not as bad, but still very hard.
Tamoo
Smash Master
Dunno how common this knowledge is but ive been using it for a while to powershield falco's lasers.
If you crouch under the projectile, and shield as the projectile passes over you, you have significantly more time to powershield than normal. Usually, You have between the extremities of your shield to your characters hurtbox, but with this method, you have from one side of your shield to the other, making it significantly easier.
If you crouch under the projectile, and shield as the projectile passes over you, you have significantly more time to powershield than normal. Usually, You have between the extremities of your shield to your characters hurtbox, but with this method, you have from one side of your shield to the other, making it significantly easier.
ArcNatural
Banned ( ∫x, δx Points)
This is a little confusing. Do you mean shielding then nairing oos when they come in to grab?
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
Yes. That's what I meant. If they'll try to grab you once they see a shield, then you should shield, and bait them to grab you. As they're coming, you jump OoS and Nair behind them, or over them.
And the Fox matchup... Isn't it just all spacing and DIing throws behind, and attacks away? Up kills DI away, Side kills DI up, double stick for rests. UThrow rests/pound, edgeguard.
And the Fox matchup... Isn't it just all spacing and DIing throws behind, and attacks away? Up kills DI away, Side kills DI up, double stick for rests. UThrow rests/pound, edgeguard.
Wow. I never knew that. I'll start implementing this into my game, thanks. Do you know why it works this way? And is this only for Jiggs, or any character that can crouch under lasers? Because the way you made it sound was because when you crouch and stand up to laser, that small range you have between you and the tip of your shield is also on top of you, not only on your sides, so it powershields it. Sorry if that wasn't clear.
idea
Smash Master
if that works the way i think it does, then that's really smart
GSUB
Smash Lord
Holy poop Tamoo... I will do this.
That's what's so great about people sharing... Omg.
That's what's so great about people sharing... Omg.
Stratford
Smash Champion
Crouch to PS would be adorable.
Tamoo
Smash Master
RIP: This works because usually when you PS, you have the time between the outer part of your shield and your hurtbox to bring the shield up. When you crouch to shield, your hurtbox totally misses the laser (presuming theyre not done perfectly on the ground) and thus you have the whole time from one end of the shield to the other to powershield, giving you much more time to do so.
There are so many good applications for this, wavedash oos when they are doin it close to you to grab can be really unexpected, and could lead to them missing the di for the uthrow etc.
There are so many good applications for this, wavedash oos when they are doin it close to you to grab can be really unexpected, and could lead to them missing the di for the uthrow etc.
idea
Smash Master
now i just need falco players not to go fox against me.
if you get it with the back of your shield, does the laser go in a different direction?
if you get it with the back of your shield, does the laser go in a different direction?
HT F8
Hostile Takeover
Oh god Tamoo, that is ****. Good ****. I'll be trying that out really soon.
Tamoo
Smash Master
nope, it goes back in the direction it came from, no matter where the laser is in the shield when you bring it up, useful eh? lol
Edit: Also, I find falco mains who use fox against me amongst the easiest foxes to play against, easier than mediocre fox mains tbh
Edit: Also, I find falco mains who use fox against me amongst the easiest foxes to play against, easier than mediocre fox mains tbh
TheKneeOfJustice
Smash Lord
Not unless they use their fox specifically for certain match-ups lol. That's how I use my Fox at least. But I can switch how I play match-ups pretty easy anyways, so I don't think hoping Falco's have a bad Fox secondary is really a good strategy.
Tamoo
Smash Master
Im not hoping for it as a strategy or something lol, its just something ive observed, Ive never really been challenged by anyone whose used fox against me as their secondary (apart from the best in UK) but ive had trouble against lesser known people who straight out main fox
My only strategy is to play puff and win Screw secondaries lol
My only strategy is to play puff and win
Screw secondaries lol
hungrybox
Smash Legend
I like to bair - uair - utlit - rest stuff
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
For the PS, Tamoo, its when the tip (front) of the laser is above you, that's your window of time to PS, right? It has to be the very tip of the laser?
Tamoo
Smash Master
Actually, the whole laser has a hitbox, sooo no!, you can powershield the whole laser animation, which is brilliant.
This does take some getting used to, Id suggest going onto training 1/4 speed at first, just to test the water, but soon, powershielding will come very easily.
This does take some getting used to, Id suggest going onto training 1/4 speed at first, just to test the water, but soon, powershielding will come very easily.
Tamoo
Smash Master
Becuase I forgot one quite important thing about this, im gonna make a new post with full details of this powershield, with colour and everything :o
Campy falco's always get to everyone eh? Well characters like jiggs can get round this with ease.
Method:
1) When you see the falco start to sh, crouch.
2) the laser will come towards you, wait for it to pass directly above you.
*The whole laser counts as a hitbox, so it is all powershieldable, so wait for any part of the animation to be above you*
3) Now, you have to let go of crouch, and in the time between getting up and getting hit by the laser, you have to shield.
*The whole shield allows you to powershield, not just the area between you and the edge of the shield*
If you do not let go of crouch, you actually light shield before fullshielding, which does not allow you to powershield.
Applications:
Close range: Wavedash oos to grab is very useful here, as they generally do not expect the grab coming at all, and hence, free uthrow to rest. Or just throw falco off the edge if he's close to the edge. Maybe go for a surprise rest, there are a lot of possibilities as falcos are generally thrown off by their blasters getting reflected back at them.
Long range: Camp the **** out of that spammy *****!!#
Might even make a little video to go along with this hehe
Hopefully, this can help all of you on your falco game, it may be quite hard to get the hang of, but at least jiggs has something remotely technical now
, and btw, i do not claim to have discovered this, heck ive only been playing this game for a year and only found it in january. I saw a jiggs do it in a match once, cant remember who so I certainly didnt discover it, im just bringing it to light
Powershielding Made Easy
Campy falco's always get to everyone eh? Well characters like jiggs can get round this with ease.
Method:
1) When you see the falco start to sh, crouch.
2) the laser will come towards you, wait for it to pass directly above you.
*The whole laser counts as a hitbox, so it is all powershieldable, so wait for any part of the animation to be above you*
3) Now, you have to let go of crouch, and in the time between getting up and getting hit by the laser, you have to shield.
*The whole shield allows you to powershield, not just the area between you and the edge of the shield*
If you do not let go of crouch, you actually light shield before fullshielding, which does not allow you to powershield.
Applications:
Close range: Wavedash oos to grab is very useful here, as they generally do not expect the grab coming at all, and hence, free uthrow to rest. Or just throw falco off the edge if he's close to the edge. Maybe go for a surprise rest, there are a lot of possibilities as falcos are generally thrown off by their blasters getting reflected back at them.
Long range: Camp the **** out of that spammy *****!!#
Might even make a little video to go along with this hehe
Hopefully, this can help all of you on your falco game, it may be quite hard to get the hang of, but at least jiggs has something remotely technical now
, and btw, i do not claim to have discovered this, heck ive only been playing this game for a year and only found it in january. I saw a jiggs do it in a match once, cant remember who so I certainly didnt discover it, im just bringing it to light
dudutsai
Smash Lord
Very cool trick thanks for posting about it!
idea
Smash Master
bair is better on fox than i previously thought. the fox mains around here kept complaining about it so i started doing it more. turns out it's hard for them to get past it. (i always figured fair was better for spamming above their head but now i'm not so sure)
Tamoo
Smash Master
Hmm, ive always been a fair person when it comes to fox, might try some bair out though to experiment
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
I don't know why, but against Fox, Bair is better than Fairs above their head.
For Falcon, its the opposite (from my experience). With slower OoS chars, I think, Fair is better, because it stays out longer. Bairs are better for spacing, so against faster characters, especially those who have an excellent OoS game, this is definitely better. This is just how I see it, though.
And thanks for the post, Tamoo. I tested it five minutes after I read the post with my brother, and it didn't work. Now I know why. You have to let go of crouch first. Thanks. This is genius.
For Falcon, its the opposite (from my experience). With slower OoS chars, I think, Fair is better, because it stays out longer. Bairs are better for spacing, so against faster characters, especially those who have an excellent OoS game, this is definitely better. This is just how I see it, though.
And thanks for the post, Tamoo. I tested it five minutes after I read the post with my brother, and it didn't work. Now I know why. You have to let go of crouch first. Thanks. This is genius.
Mindgames Son!
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2009
- Messages
- 34
Does it work the same for sheik?( the powerhsielding)
Edit: most falcos will start throwing in low lasers so it might work until they start shooting low lasers to hit oyur crouch?
Edit: most falcos will start throwing in low lasers so it might work until they start shooting low lasers to hit oyur crouch?
Tamoo
Smash Master
As long as the laser goes above shieks crouch, yes it does, there's just less room for error with her because she has a higher crouch obv.
Also, yes, some falcos will start to throw low ones, which means that you can start approaching with short hops. Some just stop using lasers as much which is useful to us.
Also, yes, some falcos will start to throw low ones, which means that you can start approaching with short hops. Some just stop using lasers as much which is useful to us.
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
I just tried this. I got the PS 90% of the time once I figured out the let go of crouch -> shield timing.
Tamoo
Smash Master
good to hear its working for ya
Timing is pretty weird to get used to, you only have a couple of frames to do it in
Timing is pretty weird to get used to, you only have a couple of frames to do it in
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
Really? It feels like I have tons of time to do it. Maybe I just got the timing on the first try, because it seems pretty easy, and simple. Let go of the analog stick, and press R. That's literally all I do. Just let go, and press R.
Is there any way we can practice this, tech? I don't want to have to get my brother to SHBL me to do this. Maybe I'll use an elastic band and find a turbo controller, lol.
Is there any way we can practice this, tech? I don't want to have to get my brother to SHBL me to do this. Maybe I'll use an elastic band and find a turbo controller, lol.
Tamoo
Smash Master
hehe well i was a complete scrub when i found this tech so learning it was hard for me.
And yeah, it cant be more than 3 frames or so to do it in, you only have the time between crouching and getting up after all.
Um what I do is keep my left hand on one controller, and my right on another and put jiggs and falco on opposite sides of FD. Press b with my right hand whilst doing the crouch and powershield with my left hand. If i wanna try options for it though, I just get my housemate to shl for me for a bit.
And yeah, it cant be more than 3 frames or so to do it in, you only have the time between crouching and getting up after all.
Um what I do is keep my left hand on one controller, and my right on another and put jiggs and falco on opposite sides of FD. Press b with my right hand whilst doing the crouch and powershield with my left hand. If i wanna try options for it though, I just get my housemate to shl for me for a bit.
The Good Doctor
Smash Champion
does anyone have reliable rest set-ups against Falcon, I'm tired of up-tilt.
also, is there a way to di out of Falcons down throw after like, 80%
also, is there a way to di out of Falcons down throw after like, 80%
AprilShaw
aka Logan
Falcon can punish rest pretty easy... (taunt to falcon punch =D) so not sure on that one. Generally Falcon has enough trouble if you just F-air/B-air him to death. As for actual rest setups though, it depends on their DI, but up throw -> up air is a decent setup. Not sure how much else is guaranteed... pound -> rest at the right %s, or pound -> jab reset if they miss the tech maybe.
The other day I landed an upsmash to rest on a friend (he was Fox but it works on Falcon). Pretty much the coolest rest you can do, except for Mango's dashdance -> rest on Armada xP
The other day I landed an upsmash to rest on a friend (he was Fox but it works on Falcon). Pretty much the coolest rest you can do, except for Mango's dashdance -> rest on Armada xP
RestInPeace
Smash Ace
Against Kirby, I would assume you would just space your Bairs. I don't know if you can be aggressive with it, or not. Crouch cancel is good (I think?).
And @ Tamoo - I'm a complete scrub right now too :D. And the turbo controller + elastic band works well.
The Good Doctor - Not tap reset rests. That just means relying on them missing techs, so setting it up is technically unreliable at all times. Tech chase rests can be reliable, depending on if you know where they will be. The easiest one to rest would be, of course, towards you. In place, or missed tech (jab reset) rests are harder, and tech away is impossible to rest. You would have to pound/Fair/Nair/dash attack them and continue from there.
And to DI Falcon's throws - Its the same no matter what % you're at. At any case, the Falcon just has to predict where you DI, and they'll hit. There's two extreme areas in which you can DI, so just mix it up so that they can't guess it everytime. DI up and in, or down and away. Some Falcons aren't good at kneeing the up and in, so do that if you notice they start missing. Just experiment, and DI the way that seems to be the least comfortable for them.
And @ Tamoo - I'm a complete scrub right now too :D. And the turbo controller + elastic band works well.
The Good Doctor - Not tap reset rests. That just means relying on them missing techs, so setting it up is technically unreliable at all times. Tech chase rests can be reliable, depending on if you know where they will be. The easiest one to rest would be, of course, towards you. In place, or missed tech (jab reset) rests are harder, and tech away is impossible to rest. You would have to pound/Fair/Nair/dash attack them and continue from there.
And to DI Falcon's throws - Its the same no matter what % you're at. At any case, the Falcon just has to predict where you DI, and they'll hit. There's two extreme areas in which you can DI, so just mix it up so that they can't guess it everytime. DI up and in, or down and away. Some Falcons aren't good at kneeing the up and in, so do that if you notice they start missing. Just experiment, and DI the way that seems to be the least comfortable for them.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Bair > Kirby
Your Bair has more range than his, but a slower startup. Fortunately, you have good jumps and good aerial mobility whereas his jumps and aerial mobility are horrible.
If he tries to camp crouch, just crouch back and wait for him to D-tilt you (when you're at low percent) because you can crouch cancel F-smash him for those and while it is true you trade damage, he takes 17% and possibly gets knocked offstage or knocked over whereas you take 10% with no risk.
If you're too high, just space Bair and shield a lot.
Edgeguard him with Fairs or just more Bairs.
Your Bair has more range than his, but a slower startup. Fortunately, you have good jumps and good aerial mobility whereas his jumps and aerial mobility are horrible.
If he tries to camp crouch, just crouch back and wait for him to D-tilt you (when you're at low percent) because you can crouch cancel F-smash him for those and while it is true you trade damage, he takes 17% and possibly gets knocked offstage or knocked over whereas you take 10% with no risk.
If you're too high, just space Bair and shield a lot.
Edgeguard him with Fairs or just more Bairs.
dudutsai
Smash Lord
I was sad that I was gonna have to answer this one again.... I am passing the job on to you lol
Against Kirby it's really easy to outrange with bairs. The only things you need to watch out for is he can cc really easily and make mis-spaced bairs to go over his head, so you need to land away from him. Be patient. It's also pretty easy to gimp his recovery.
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