Starcraft 2 (Info on first post!)

[Nasty_Nate]

try 1rax expanding in TvT

If you can hold off pressure your good

 

[Omni]

Hating TvT more and more as I play them. My win ratio is like 20:80 in those.. Yet the other two races are easier to play against but TvT is just one long *** macro game that I just don't have the patience for..

TvT has a lot to do about positioning.

Siege Tanks with Marine support. Vikings for picking off Medivacs and giving Siege Tanks more sight. Medivacs for bypass siege lines to drop on expansions.

You have to outmine him or at least make sure the other T is mining less than you. If he's sitting back on a few bases waiting for you to come expand yourself and add BC's to your rep. Deny his expansions with Siege Tanks or limit him to a specific zone.

Watch MVP vs. MarineKingPrime. Also, TLO vs. I forget who but those are good examples of high level TvT play.

I personally open up with a 2 Rax FE and go Marine/Tank. If I scout an early Port w/Tech I place a turret or two at my main/second with 3/4 marine support to prevent Cloaked Banshees and early drops.

Since you'll be going against the same units as him it's imperative to stay ahead in the upgrade game as well.

If you want you can spar with me since I'm a pretty low level Terran at the moment.

 

[Zankoku]

I am concerned. I do ask those questions and I do have answers.

- 5 marine/SCV push is to harass and delay his expansion. Best case force him to spend some minerals on Lings rather than Drones. It also gives me time to FE. I don't plan to kill him here.

- Blue Flame Hellion is another harass in a response to his probably early Ling production. This pressure is to put a hurt on his economy on his expansion. I am harassing him at this point because he doesn't have muta's yet and most likely will go Banelings/Zerglings to compensate for building too many early Zerglings. I can kill here if I damage his economy enough, but it may be ineffective if he has a Roach Warren out.

- Cloaked Banshee is the last harass if the first two didn't kill him. This pressure is to capitalize on possible roach production in response to my blue flame hellions. If I hurt his economy then Muta's shouldn't be an issue, but if not then cloaked banshees can apply hurt. Aim for his gas first.

All I'm seeing here is that you're trying to kill him two and a half times with half-***** pokes. What is the harass supposed to do? Damage his economy? And then what does that lead to? You're picking three points to focus on but I'm not seeing the overall objective here.

I can answer the questions, Ankoku. You're saying I'm picking up strategies before adapting to my play but the main issue is that I don't have a base strategy yet for Zerg which is why I'm trying to create an overall game plan instead of just macro'ing until I think it's okay to attack.

The way you've answered those questions are telling me that you are, in fact, getting ahead of yourself. An overall gameplan is something like "I want to kill in this way" or "I want to kill before this point." Instead you're caught up in details like "I want to do this, transition into this, and hopefully make this work depending on what happened earlier" and then not actually considering the really important part - what ends the game. So let me know once you actually have the overlying goal you want to reach, and then we can work on all the finer points of how to get there.

I don't have an early/mid/late game plan strategy vs. Zerg. So I'm trying to get one established that allows me to harass them since my main issue against Zerg is that I just allow them to expand freely 'cuz I'm so focused on my own macro. I don't harass nearly enough.

You don't need to harass to prevent the opponent from expanding freely. Terran, through the versatility and power of the Marine/Tank mix, can simply muscle Zerg out of new expansions if they are not adequately defended. Denying expansions is more about knowing when your opponent is planning to do so than cooking up cute little harass strategies.

Question: How many factories can I run off 2 bases? 3 bases?

http://sc2calc.org/unit_production/terran.php

@Ankoku: I went back to the 2 Rax FE and I was wondering when would be the most optimum timing to build my Factory? CC starts @ 23 and I build Double Gas at around 28. Do I save my gas for Tech Lab @ Rax first? Or do I go straight in Factory and start pumping out Siege Tanks? I'm trying to figure out what buildings and productions and upgrades should take priority over others, I guess.

I'm also thinking that if I do the 2 Rax FE expand that I shouldn't go for Blue Flame because it won't be an early timing push, so I should instead just go for Tanks to compliment my marine army.

I'm pretty sure these questions can be answered through YABOT (probably one of the few things that I'd recommend YABOT for beyond learning the absolute basics or polishing really tight builds), but it basically depends on how early of a timing you're trying to get your Siege Tanks, how many you want, and so on. Note that you need a Tech Lab and Siege Research (which is approximately two tanks worth of time) to be set up for it.

 

[rhan]

try 1rax expanding in TvT

If you can hold off pressure your good

How exactly does that go?

TvT has a lot to do about positioning.

Siege Tanks with Marine support. Vikings for picking off Medivacs and giving Siege Tanks more sight. Medivacs for bypass siege lines to drop on expansions.

You have to outmine him or at least make sure the other T is mining less than you. If he's sitting back on a few bases waiting for you to come expand yourself and add BC's to your rep. Deny his expansions with Siege Tanks or limit him to a specific zone.

Watch MVP vs. MarineKingPrime. Also, TLO vs. I forget who but those are good examples of high level TvT play.

I personally open up with a 2 Rax FE and go Marine/Tank. If I scout an early Port w/Tech I place a turret or two at my main/second with 3/4 marine support to prevent Cloaked Banshees and early drops.

Since you'll be going against the same units as him it's imperative to stay ahead in the upgrade game as well.

If you want you can spar with me since I'm a pretty low level Terran at the moment.

Thanks for the advice. I've been watching TLO a lot for this match-up but I really hate those kinda of macro games and I hate also resorting to Rine/Tank/Vik.

I'm willing to play whenever you're on. Though I'm pretty sure you're better then I am. Rank 13 Silver right here... I was rank 7 until I played 3 TvT's back to back. >_<

 

[Zankoku]

Stop getting *****, rhan D:
What happened to that Diamond status?!

btw signups end today. Same with the tournament, regardless of whether you guys end up playing your match or not

List so far:
Kenrawr // KatyPerry.412
M@v // Mav.945
Pakman // Pakman.484
S.O.L.I.D. // Solid.414
Sveet // CrumbsMcGee.182
vrud // AllYourBase.445
Aoko // sion.925
Roman // fycROMAN.268
TheYoster // YellowYoster.807
Werekill // Werekill.779
Zone // Snafu.411
Cynan Machae // Cynan.623

Signup format is, again,
name.character code // race // least liked map

Potential map pool is
Crossfire SE (2 votes)
Terminus RE (3 votes)
Metalopolis
Typhon Peaks (1 vote)
Xel'Naga Caverns
Crevasse
Dual Sight (1 vote)
Xel'Naga Fortress (1 vote)
Tal'Darim Altar (2 votes)

 

[_Dice]

So for TvT you should watch MarineKing Prime, or preferable imMVP. imMVP is near flawless in his TvT and MKP has a vastly separate style that is pretty equally effective.



EDIT: and omni also 2 siege tank 1 thor factory on 2 base (it's a little inconsistant, you are filling up gas holes with marine production or hellion). but the point is, once you get maxed make 5ish factories with tech labs, and sit there, and whenever any tank or thor dies immediately start it's replacement. so you end up with 9ish factories, not all producing constantly, but since you are stockpiling when you are maxed you can replace your army very fast (a bit slower than zerg) and that allows you to never have your army break, once zerg breaks your army it's really really hard to recover as terran.


If you think about map control like spheres of influence, bases create larger spheres, while PFs create even larger, and tanks a little smaller than that. and units much smaller ones, and anything you block off you control. your goal is you have a line directly across the map with much more on your side than theirs. every unit lost shrinks that influence, but being able to reproduce the biggest influence units (tanks) and protect them with turrets and thors very quickly is so important to this goal.

 

[Nasty_Nate]

Terran should be a stone wall with a guy throwing rocks from above.
You never want to take your rocks from your wall
You never want to stop throwing rocks
you never want the stone to crack.
your opponent should be like an lake throwing waves at you again and again each time weaker than before until only a puddle is left. and then you mop up the puddle.

your opponent should never grow into an ocean(zerg) and also should never be allowed to pick up speed into a tidal wave (protoss).

 

[Nashun]

Cynan is like, never on, despite him saying that he'll be on at night this week.

 

[rhan]

Stop getting *****, rhan D:
What happened to that Diamond status?!

I got Diamond to Diamond from 5rax reaper.. lololol

Honestly I would like to believe I belong in Gold league. Silver league is just so easy.. and I usually lose to Gold league players. So..

 

[Nasty_Nate]

Infestor buff is too good in ZvZ

They were good before, now every game had to be some infestor composition or theres no way to win

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

MKP plays a series better than anyone else in the world. He plays series so well he beat MC when MC was a few skill levels above him. Be very careful about anything you steal from him.

MVP is the top terran. Anything you need to learn, you can learn it from him.

 

[Zone]

I really like slayersMMA he makes so many extremely smart decisions. And dominated big names in gstl.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

MMA is the legend slayer

 

[Juno McGrath]

TLO and Spanishiwa are playing a best of 5 soon. Hyped

 

[Cynan Machae]

Cynan is like, never on, despite him saying that he'll be on at night this week.

I've been logging on a few times but for short peridod, but I can't idle if I'm using the comp for anything else.
If you know of a timeframe tonight you are sure you are going to be on, I can be there for sure.
I'm on right now, if you happen to be able to play in the next hour or two.

 

[Nashun]

I've been logging on a few times but for short peridod, but I can't idle if I'm using the comp for anything else.
If you know of a timeframe tonight you are sure you are going to be on, I can be there for sure.
I'm on right now, if you happen to be able to play in the next hour or two.

logging now

 

[Juno McGrath]

I really like this thread. I can tell there are a lot of smart people here that will surely help me in game

I want to play zerg btw

 

[rhan]

Zerg's probably the hardest to pick up in my opinion. But once you learn them you can be a decent threat. Some Zergs here that can help are Overswarm, Sveet, Alt and that's from the top of the head. Terran's probably the easiest to learn but still have some technical aspects about them.

 

[victra♥]

i dont know, i played terran at first because people said they were the easiest to learn but i found that i felt more comfortable playing zerg and to me, they feel the easiest. XD

man all my fellow noob friends all play terran too. so lame.

 

[Juno McGrath]

Zerg's probably the hardest to pick up in my opinion. But once you learn them you can be a decent threat. Some Zergs here that can help are Overswarm, Sveet, Alt and that's from the top of the head. Terran's probably the easiest to learn but still have some technical aspects about them.

I have a bad habit of picking characters based upon how cool they look and zerg just look the coolest, ive been subscribed to husky and have watched at least five games a day for the past two months.

I just havent owned the game that long.

the game honestly fascinates me and i love playing it.

 

[rhan]

So you get the main gist of how to actually preform as Zerg since you watched some Zv matches? Here's a page from Liquidpedia with some builds and strategies for each match-up.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Zerg_Strategy

Learning some can greatly improve your game.

 

[Juno McGrath]

So you get the main gist of how to actually preform as Zerg since you watched some Zv matches? Here's a page from Liquidpedia with some builds and strategies for each match-up.

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Zerg_Strategy

Learning some can greatly improve your game.

yeah so far i really like idra, destiny, and spanishiwa.

I just dont know a lot of the terms people use. Like 1rax?

And still learning what the protoss units are. I know most of the terran from campaign.

 

[Nashun]

I beat cynan.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Playing zerg is much different than playing terran or protoss. With those races its clear how you can gain positional advantages, especially for defense. Zerg has very little in terms of positional advantage but have the ability to very quickly make an army. If you like zerg make sure you are dedicated. I switched from P to Z and lost 15 games in a row before i was dropped a league and then started getting some wins. Because of the nature of the race you have to understand the match-ups in a much different way than the other races have to view them.

For example, for a terran player to do a hellion opening, they risk very little in the sense they are naturally teching up (they will have a factory and an addon afterwards) and the units themselves only cost minerals. On the other hand the zerg can't be sure what is coming and a defensive "right" move isn't available. In the early game zerg has to be very reactive and every bit of scouting information is valuable more than any one unit. You have to learn your reactions and memorize what to look for. For example, in the ZvP match-up you have to have a hickup in your droning at 21 drones. If they 4gate you and you made more drones than that, you will lose.

After learning your reactions your are in good shape. Other races exemplify the macro and physical motions more than zerg does. If you know the timings and how to gather and react to information you can win without lots of APM. You really just need to get in the habit of using hold position on your army and doing injects at the correct time. I think T is the easiest race to learn since they are the strongest race as long as you just keep producing units (generally speaking), but it can be difficult to keep your money low and not get supply blocked. Its easy to see your mistakes with T or P since the strategy and reaction stuff is fairly straightforward, but zerg can require more knowledge of the game and RTS theory in general.

 

[Nasty_Nate]

Dont listen to anybody. They are all different so no 1 race is hardest. Play the one that looks most fun

 

[rhan]

Fooling around with all the races and watching high level play. You can tell that Zerg has the hardest time it all depends on how efficient they are with their macro and their micro.

 

[Zankoku]

The fact that I'm terrible at spellcasters makes Protoss the hardest race for me.

 

[Nasty_Nate]

Masters level random

zerg is the easiest race for me
Again, dont listen to people. Just choose what looks fun

 

[Zankoku]

Results:
1: Nashun (+101)
2: Cynan Machae (+51)
3: TheYoster (+26)
3: Nasty_Nate (+26)
5: AltF4 (+14)
5: Sveet (+14)
5: vrud (+14)
5: Roman. (+14)
9: rhan
9: Werekill
9: ArcNatural
9: S.O.L.I.D.

6 Terran 1 Protoss 4 Zerg 2 Random

1. Kenrawr // KatyPerry.412
2. M@v // Mav.945
3. Pakman // Pakman.484
4. S.O.L.I.D. // Solid.414
5. Sveet // CrumbsMcGee.182
6. vrud // AllYourBase.445
7. Aoko // sion.925
8. Roman // fycROMAN.268
9. TheYoster // YellowYoster.807
10. Werekill // Werekill.779
11. Zone // Snafu.411
12. Cynan Machae // Cynan.623
13. Nasty_Nate // NastyNate.922

Rules:

• Best of 3
• Finals are best of 5
• Single elimination
• First game will be played on the specified map for the round
• Loser of previous game selects map for next game
• You may not select a map you have already won on in a given set
• Players must stay their designated race

Map Pool:

• Metalopolis
• Typhon Peaks
• Xel'Naga Caverns
• Crevasse
• Dual Sight
• Xel'Naga Fortress

You have until Saturday, April 23 to finish the first round. I disqualify indiscriminately past that mark.

 

[Nasty_Nate]

Ill play. I was busy these past few weeks but I can fit some games in now

 

[Zankoku]

Bracket is remade. Don't do that again

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Masters level random

zerg is the easiest race for me
Again, dont listen to people. Just choose what looks fun

thats masters level. You aren't "learning" the game. I already said zerg is the easiest to execute when you know what you're doing. Also you never experience the really gay late scout blind openings as a random zerg so you are somewhat bias.

 

[M@v]

The fact that I'm terrible at spellcasters makes Protoss the hardest race for me.

A-move colossi death ball?

 

[rhan]

thats masters level. You aren't "learning" the game. I already said zerg is the easiest to execute when you know what you're doing. Also you never experience the really gay late scout blind openings as a random zerg so you are somewhat bias.

Exactly.

A-move colossi death ball?

LOL what Toss actually uses the spell casters of that race anyway?

 

[Zankoku]

The Sentries. I'm talking about the Sentries.

 

[rhan]

They take over the army hot key command so if there's one in that group you can cast without tabbing through units.

I honestly don't believe anyone is bad with Sentries.. They're probably the easiest casters to use.

 

[Zankoku]

Ghosts take over priority in the army, too.

I.

Suck.

At.

Spellcasters.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

yeah so far i really like idra, destiny, and spanishiwa.

I just dont know a lot of the terms people use. Like 1rax?

And still learning what the protoss units are. I know most of the terran from campaign.

1 rax = 1 barracks.

I play Mav eh?

 

[T-block]

If anyone isn't watching TSL Sen vs. Boxer now, watch the VODs when they're released. Goddamn this is the best series @.@

 

[vrud]

Ghosts take over priority in the army, too.

I.

Suck.

At.

Spellcasters.

I can relate to that D= thats y i like terran.

Anyway kenrawr when will u be free to play our games?