Starcraft 2 (Info on first post!)

[M@v]

I have to get more comfortable with knowing the exact radius of the ghost emp so I don't over cast EMPs.

Its pretty clutch if you use them at the right times though.

 

[Sion]

i'm down to play anytime sveet

also added you

 

[Kenrawr]

@vrud, maybe later tonight. weekdays 6PM-12AM usually

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

i'm down to play anytime sveet

also added you

are we playing first round? i havent looked at the bracket really. I havent played since the last time we played, so youre gonna push my **** in lol.

 

[Sion]

lmao yeah we playing dog

but i mean we don't necessarily have to play right at this moment

we just can't hold up the tournament

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

if that happens ill give you the win. you were kicking my *** before hahahaha. I work tomorrow but ill try to get some free time to dust off my keyboard and hopefully we can play sometime monday or tuesday. is that good for you?

 

[Pakman]

Zone can you play today?

 

[M@v]

First time id probably have time to play would be tues. Maaaaayyybeeee late tonight.

Maybe.

 

[Sion]

monday/tuesday evenings would work out

just tell me when

 

[Juno McGrath]

http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/TeamLiquidTV

Cute stream right now.

 

[Zone]

Pakman I wasn't home yesterday. I can play today. Like 6pm to 9pm cst

 

[Pakman]

Got dinner plans tonight with the folks. Might have to reschedule to later in the week.

 

[Zone]

Ok my general schedule is 5am-5pm work mon-Friday. An I generally go to bed 8:30-9:00 cst. I'm off weekends but I got a melee tourney this weekend I think.

 

[Pakman]

I am on est. I can probably play at some point this week just add me on craft. Pakman 484.

 

[M@v]

1 rax = 1 barracks.

I play Mav eh?

Other examples:

4gate=4warpgate

2gate robo=2 warpgate robotics facility.

14 hatch=zerg fast expands with a hatchery when he's at 14 supply(aka food)

 

[Omni]

I've found a small technique that helps me concentrate better. Not much a technique; probably common sense.

But basically all I do is just tell myself what I want to do and then do everything until I have it. I know it sounds simple but idk it helped a lot. Like for example I'll be like, "I want siege tanks. I want 4 siege tanks." during the game and I'll start macro'ing better than normal. I know that during that time I need to always build scv's, don't get supply blocked, keep minerals low by usually pumping constant marines, and tech up if I still have leftover min/gas. Then once I complete then I'll probably say, "Okay, I want to go attack his expansion. Go attack his expansion."

I'm still stuck in Bronze! It's like reach Rank 1 and win a few games. Next day be at Rank 6 or 7. Rinse, wash, and repeat.

 

[Overswarm]

But basically all I do is just tell myself what I want to do and then do everything until I have it. I know it sounds simple but idk it helped a lot. Like for example I'll be like, "I want siege tanks. I want 4 siege tanks." during the game and I'll start macro'ing better than normal. I know that during that time I need to always build scv's, don't get supply blocked, keep minerals low by usually pumping constant marines, and tech up if I still have leftover min/gas. Then once I complete then I'll probably say, "Okay, I want to go attack his expansion. Go attack his expansion."

"Having a plan"

 

[rhan]

Chewing gum helps me focus.. I also wear these studio headphone when I play. Turn off the music and just have it as the SFX and voices.

Having a plan for each match-up is good though. Omni if you get on today I want to play a few games with you. I've thought of some TvT strats that I want to try out.

 

[M@v]

sc2 music is so awesome though D:

 

[Omni]

Chewing gum helps me focus.. I also wear these studio headphone when I play. Turn off the music and just have it as the SFX and voices.

Having a plan for each match-up is good though. Omni if you get on today I want to play a few games with you. I've thought of some TvT stats that I want to try out.

No problem.

Terran music too goodz.

And yea let's play some today!

 

[Zone]

Back when I played broodwar and I had problems remembering to do stuff. I would just cycle through my head important stuff workers/scout/supply/economy(production)/upgraded.

While I was harrassing. Obviously you gotta prioritiZe you can't leave mutas alone for long so I'd skip upgrade in my cycle when I got to it and ect.

 

[Roman.]

werekill when will you be online

 

[M@v]

Having a long term strategy is good. Ill use my tvp as an example. My goal: get to constant bc production off at least 2 ports. Requirements for said goal: 3base, army that's cost effecient to stay alive until then. Army that's good at both defending and harssing. mm plus banshees fit this perfectly because banshees can harass well, and are great defenders with their high dps and cloak. Mm in bunkers with scv repair helps a ton. This directly transitions into bcs. But say you like your mmm? Replace the banshees with more rax/upgrades with medevacs and mm drop all over the place.

 

[Zankoku]

After playing tons of coop vs AI matches (and having to pick up the slack for horrible teammates) and games with new players to teach them, I've learned how to pursue absolutely ******** long-term plans with quite good efficiency.

I also wish that I could select all my Zerglings when I max out supply on them.

I've found a small technique that helps me concentrate better. Not much a technique; probably common sense.

But basically all I do is just tell myself what I want to do and then do everything until I have it. I know it sounds simple but idk it helped a lot. Like for example I'll be like, "I want siege tanks. I want 4 siege tanks." during the game and I'll start macro'ing better than normal. I know that during that time I need to always build scv's, don't get supply blocked, keep minerals low by usually pumping constant marines, and tech up if I still have leftover min/gas. Then once I complete then I'll probably say, "Okay, I want to go attack his expansion. Go attack his expansion."

I'm still stuck in Bronze! It's like reach Rank 1 and win a few games. Next day be at Rank 6 or 7. Rinse, wash, and repeat.

Start making bigger plans like "I want to end the game by starving him out on bases, then kill with the power of Tanks/Marines" and you'll be approaching what I've been trying to tell you to follow - figure out the overall goal, then start filling in the details of how you're going to achieve it.

 

[Nasty_Nate]

Theres nothing wrong with asking advice and stuff

but it seriously seems like you guys overcomplicate stuff WAY too much

Play a ****ton of games. Practice BOs. Scout, expo, expand, macro. Having trouble in an area? Play more games and focus on improving

its the only way to get better

 

[Sion]

some good advice, nate

i feel like my harass game is weak, and i'm gonna work on it
i'm feeling that collo ball 1a is very effective, but i could do a lot better

 

[Roman.]

is omni on day9 atm?

playing as z???

 

[Omni]

maybe

btw, experienced my first mean guy game. some dude 7rr'd me and then when he broke through called me a bundle of sticks. apparently he thought i was trying to 2 Rax all in him when i was in actuality just applying 5 marine 2 scv pressure from my FE.

anyway, here's what happened. after i finished my 1st rax i sent my scv to scout (like normal). unfortunately i reached his base last. didn't see an expo so i assumed he probably sucked, but when i came into his base i saw a Roach Wvyern and the larvae sitting in the hatcheries with roaches. immediately knew it was a 7RR.

at this point i was like uh, what should i do? i couldn't really bunker him because the creep around his main was far enough where the bunker wouldn't target anything. so i kinda just panicked and target fired the wvyern. got it to like 20% before the roaches came in and ate me. then i quickly put up a bunker at home but the distance was fairly short so he caught me short of the bunker finishing with about 4-5 more marines trying to provide back up. i then brought all my scv's off the line to absorb damage while my marines backed up. it kinda worked, but not really.

NOW

i think what i SHOULD have done is instantly retreat my scv's and marines and immediately go for a 2 bunker wall-in at my base asap. by the time i reached my base 2 bunkers should be nearly complete and i'd have more marines alive. then id use a few scv's to repair the bunkers as well. then i'd abandon my FE and transition straight into marauders with concussive shells.

is that the proper response?

 

[Zankoku]

I really can't know the exact details without watching the replay, but

First of all, why would you even think about bunkering up his base? If Zerg is 1-basing and you're preparing an FE build, he's already behind by a huge amount, but potentially still able to kill you early on. If you see his base and there's no expansion going up, it's safe to keep all your forces back home for extra protection, probably adding a bunker or two if you're expecting an actual all-in (1-base Baneling Bust or 7RR).

Second of all, why would you target the Warren (Warren, not Wyvern. One is a kind of structure, the other is a kind of dragon.)? Killing the Queen, some Overlords, or even some of his likely small number of Drones would delay him about as much overall, while allowing you to deal guaranteed amounts of damage and giving the option of pulling back when needed.

Third, when were you moving out with those Marines? Sounds like you started hunting before you even scouted the opponent's base location or his plan.

The objective when playing against an all-in when you aren't all-in is to survive, not to try to kill him even more quickly with less investment in army. If you prevent the first attack from doing any real damage, then he's already lost anyway.

 

[Omni]

idk if u know but u sound really condescending with your statements even tho i doubt you mean to but there are reasons, most of them being because i had a set plan and was surprised and/or i panicked

First of all, why would you even think about bunkering up his base? If Zerg is 1-basing and you're preparing an FE build, he's already behind by a huge amount, but potentially still able to kill you early on. If you see his base and there's no expansion going up, it's safe to keep all your forces back home for extra protection, probably adding a bunker or two if you're expecting an actual all-in (1-base Baneling Bust or 7RR).

my goal was to bunker his natural. i never encountered a 7RR or a zerg who didn't expand so i was thinking, "uh, do i bunker his base"? i ended up not bunkering and i said specifically that i think my best bet would have been to retreat and bunker up myself at my base. did u read that

Second of all, why would you target the Warren (Warren, not Wyvern. One is a kind of structure, the other is a kind of dragon.)? Killing the Queen, some Overlords, or even some of his likely small number of Drones would delay him about as much overall, while allowing you to deal guaranteed amounts of damage and giving the option of pulling back when needed

i already said i panicked. i noticed the Roach's were in larvae and they coulda popped up whenever. if i committed to attacking the queen or the drones then im also comitting to losing my marines once the roaches popped up. so i targeted the structure that was furthest from the hatch which was the warren.

Third, when were you moving out with those Marines? Sounds like you started hunting before you even scouted the opponent's base location or his plan.

i always move out when i hit 3 marines and rally 2 other marines to join them. because i hit his base last on my initial scout it was pretty close to the time where my marines were already en route.

The objective when playing against an all-in when you aren't all-in is to survive, not to try to kill him even more quickly with less investment in army. If you prevent the first attack from doing any real damage, then he's already lost anyway.

ya i realize that now.

 

[Zankoku]

I actually do mean to sound condescending, for my own reasons.

Anyway, you're basically telling me that you know exactly what to do now, so there's nothing else to be said.

 

[Omni]

so you do mean to sound condescending? well that's lame.

NOW

i think what i SHOULD have done is instantly retreat my scv's and marines and immediately go for a 2 bunker wall-in at my base asap. by the time i reached my base 2 bunkers should be nearly complete and i'd have more marines alive. then id use a few scv's to repair the bunkers as well. then i'd abandon my FE and transition straight into marauders with concussive shells.

is that the proper response?

this is what i was asking. instead you decided to ignore this and just point out the obvious errors in my thinking that i had already blatantly stated was due to my lack of experience.

w/e dude

 

[Zankoku]

Honestly, what else needs to be said about such a straightforward all-in? "I think I should've over-defended and then transitioned into a hard counter after I've already won. Is that correct?" Yes, it's correct. Seems like once you took a few minutes to think about it you figured it out. Other, fun alternatives include expanding again and 3-basing Banshees out of 4 Starports, or deciding to take over the map so you can win with only Ravens. I'd say the important part would be scouting and not panicking, but roughly 50% of my advice has been disregarded in favor of you doing things your way, so I don't see what difference it makes.

 

[Omni]

dude, you're a ****. it's not "straight-forward" to me as much as it would be to you. get over yourself. i didnt know for sure if what i said was the appropriate answer which is why the whole point of my original post was to seek confirmation.

and what @ listening to only 50% of what you say? my TvZ opener is based on the build you recommended i use. same applies to my other builds as well. whereas you seem to get thrills in just beating people who aren't as good as you.

you've got issues, dude. just pretend anything question related i ask in this thread isn't directed to you

 

[Zankoku]

Alright, you have your confirmation. The alternatives I suggested are actually real, though. :< Don't hate on mass Ravens.

I got as far as telling you an opening. Everything I heard from you after that was kind of an exercise in frustration for me. Maybe I'm just a bad teacher at times. And yes, beating people who aren't as good as me is fun :D. Especially when it means I moved people from the list of those who were better than me :D.

Alright, if you're done with me, then you're done. I'll end by saying you definitely don't belong in Bronze in terms of your current level, so hopefully massing games will overcome your MMR from so long ago soon enough.

 

[Omni]

dude i listen to almost everything you say but that doesn't mean i don't want to branch out and experiment with the game and try things that appeal to me in regards to it just being fun and a good way for me to explore the game. you've told me ten zillion things not relating to openers that if i've kept in a notepad and tried to implement during games. idk why you're getting so salty

on a side note

mass ravens do sound exciting

 

[Zankoku]

It's because I have past issues with various people (mostly Smash players) in SC2 involving what they've taken from a match.

 

[rhan]

Omni when a Zerg's on 1 base you're better off turtling at yours with some Siege Tanks and marines/mauds. I tend to open 1rax 2fact against Zerg. My plan is to BF helion harass when they FE but if they don't, I'm able to quickly switch attachments and adapt to what the opponent is doing. Like if they're going 1 base Roach tanks clean that up.

I played a game about 30 minutes ago similar to the situation at hand since we're about the same league then it should look like something along the lines of this.

Edit: Btw I'm not showing off. I'm just showing another (Probably easier option) in the match-up.

 

[_Dice]

omni, the correct response would be to immediately begin a bunker at home, send one of your scvs to scout for a hidden expo, and use 3 marines to kill as many drones as you can and then book it. Get stim and make a couple marauders. send 5-8 scvs to your wall in to block if you need it and to repair.

7rr is an absolute loss for zerg vs terran if terran crushes the army. (the reason you kill 3-4 drones first is it cripples the zerg to the point of preventing them from expoing for a while) zerg is ultra tempo based and if you just rise up and backhand the zerg they are pretty much unable to cope with it and go into panic mode.

when stim finishes yu should be well ahead, and then you counter push, forcing zerg to make a ton of units or instantly lose, and then you retreat killign anythign that chases you, but not pushing any further than to force them to make units. then you expand get tanks and go on to win the game fairly simply.

 

[Kenrawr]

Mass ravens is my main strat in TvZ (shoutouts to Anther)