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Starcraft 2 (Info on first post!)

Lobos

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
Messages
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Location
Columbia, MD
Well I know alot of terrans like to "turtle" or "trap" with supply depots and engineer bay. So I've tried a ling/bangling rush but I can't see to get it off right.

In 2v2 or 3v3s I seem to start off ok but when things get rolling I seem to be laggy behind as far as building up structures/mining/get gas.

I'm still in the learning process since it has been 10 years since I've played sc so yeah any help is appreciated. :)
 

AvaricePanda

Smash Lord
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Jan 30, 2009
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Location
Indianapolis, Indiana
I'm a gold level player (i.e. bad) so take what I say with a grain of salt, but what helped me most was just watching pro matches of various lengths, so I can just get ideas of how to make things work. When I start out a game I have ideas of what I want to do, and after scouting that solidifies a bit. Then I have some idea after the early game what I want to work to towards the mid or late game.

For example, vs Terran I like to open with 3-gate robo. Past the initial push around that 7 minute mark is the time where I get my expo and just try to macro up a bit. For the midgame, some things I want to do is get chargelots, add gateways, and get a forge up. I try to stay adaptable though, like if he tries to do some banshee harrass I'll get up a stargate and put up Phoenixes, meanwhile defending with Observer/Stalker/Cannons. My late game goal is to get HTs and then harrass him as much as possible. Most of my games haven't gone past the 20 minute mark though, so I don't have too much experience here with the like 3-4 expo battles.

But pretty much I watch pros to see all the potential things I can do, then keep the ones I like in my mind and set goals for what to do in the mid and late game. Right now I only know a couple builds per match-up though.

oh, and if people haven't gotten 2 UMS maps for training they really should, they're both awesome.

YABOT—Yet Another Build Order Tester. You choose your race and a list of build orders, and you can play out the first 10 (or 20 if you set it to that) minutes of a game vs. a Green Tea AI (it's pretty smart) to just solidify the build order and see how fast you get stuff out. It helps you feel comfortable with the first 10 minutes of the game.

Multitasking UMS—You have a probe on one side of the map, and then do a standard game vs a Terran on the other side. You can change the difficulty settings, but in general you have to keep your minerals below a certain amount, keep your base energy below a certain amount, keep your probe alive on one side from a chasing zergling (it's just slow enough that it won't catch up to you going in a straight line or making smooth turns, but making waypoints will let it catch up and kill you), rescue someone via dropship X number of times, and then push against the Terran base and win. The Terran will send in harrasses or pushes depending on what difficulty you're on.

I can't even complete the multitasker on very easy, but it helps me a lot with warming up and keeping my attention sharp. I've only done it for like 2 days at this point, but what happens is that I fail pretty early, keep a note of the things I need to do, and I do so much better the second time.

but anyway go get those two maps because they help with practice a lot.
 

rhan

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
Messages
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SoVA 757
If the Terran is turtling. He definitely has Tanks. And Tanks counter banglings and pretty much any other ground unit of Zerg's.

BAnglings are a great way to kill of Biological units. Also they're about to pretty much demolish a Terran's block.
 

Lobos

Smash Master
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Messages
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Columbia, MD
bangling only works if you get them out fast enough to destroy building structures before they make tanks.....then use lings to pick up any stragglers
 

M@v

Subarashii!
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
10,678
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Pittsburgh, PA
3-gate robo is like the only build I know how to do vs. Terran in like early-mid game lol. If it lasts to late game I usually try to go HTs (and lose because of lack of experience), although I might try some DT builds in early-mid game but I dunno the timings lol. I'm always afraid to go VRs because of Marines.

I also had a pylon at the Xelnaga tower and an expansion up, so even if that push failed I felt really confident about the game. I didn't really **** you, just had slightly more units + expo

in other news Phoenixes are amazing vs. Zerg.
In sc1, dt rushes *****. In Sc2, its a lot easier for people to counter them. Terrans can get obs(comms sweep) really early. Missile turrets are also detectors. I have yet to see a protoss use hts effectively in sc2. I would assume they are better vs zerg, because that was their strong point in the first one. vs terrans, mass ground seems to work. Voids get owned by mass rines with vikings.


My terran late build is normally mass rines/marauders/tanks, with vikings for air cover/mineral raiding. I need to start finding ways to use thors more effectively.
 

shanus

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
6,055
In sc1, dt rushes *****. In Sc2, its a lot easier for people to counter them. Terrans can get obs(comms sweep) really early. Missile turrets are also detectors. I have yet to see a protoss use hts effectively in sc2. I would assume they are better vs zerg, because that was their strong point in the first one. vs terrans, mass ground seems to work. Voids get owned by mass rines with vikings.


My terran late build is normally mass rines/marauders/tanks, with vikings for air cover/mineral raiding. I need to start finding ways to use thors more effectively.
watch tester vs into the rainbow on day9tv
 

AvaricePanda

Smash Lord
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Messages
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I was just about to say that, shanus. HTs are awesome, I usually use them more in PvT because late game I go Collosi for PvZ.

In other news, my 7 hour guest pass ran out a few days ago, and I'm not getting the game until my sister's next paycheck next week. I'm going to spend quite a bit of time in YABOT and the multitasker practicing though.
 

Melomaniacal

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
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Tristate area
I'm currently rank 12 in Silver, and I honestly don't want to rank up, haha. I don't feel confident enough to deal with better opponents. I still can't handle VR rushes.
 

M@v

Subarashii!
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Oct 13, 2007
Messages
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I think it goes by your W-L ratio.

Ive been going with about a 4-1 5-1 w/l ratio in the silver league past couple days.

I had to be playing people from higher leagues too; even though I was like top 10 in the league, my opponent was always favored, lol.

Melo, sometime next week(Im going to apex), play some matches with me.
 

Melomaniacal

Smash Champion
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Tristate area
I just made it to top ten (9th at the moment) in Silver, taking out a Gold and Platinum player. Both Terran. The Gold guy was kind of a huge ****. I took out his main, couldn't find his expansion. He types "has left the game." to try and trick me into leaving. Eventually I find his expansion and win. Still, huge **** move by him.

But I've learned something about Terran. If they don't MMM ball me, I have a much, much larger chance of winning. The second I see that MMM ball, I know they won.

But sure, M@v, I'm down. I'll be at Apex as well. I'm still learning, but it'll be fun.


Oh, also, me and a friend almost won a 2v2 match using our amazing "base rush" technique. We both went Terran and flew our Command Centers over to their base, attacked their workers with our SCVs, and almost took them both out. We got one of them, killing all their workers. He left, and we almost go the other guy but he ended up winning. Funny stuff.
 

rhan

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I just made it to top ten (9th at the moment) in Silver, taking out a Gold and Platinum player. Both Terran. The Gold guy was kind of a huge ****. I took out his main, couldn't find his expansion. He types "has left the game." to try and trick me into leaving. Eventually I find his expansion and win. Still, huge **** move by him.

But I've learned something about Terran. If they don't MMM ball me, I have a much, much larger chance of winning. The second I see that MMM ball, I know they won.

But sure, M@v, I'm down. I'll be at Apex as well. I'm still learning, but it'll be fun.


Oh, also, me and a friend almost won a 2v2 match using our amazing "base rush" technique. We both went Terran and flew our Command Centers over to their base, attacked their workers with our SCVs, and almost took them both out. We got one of them, killing all their workers. He left, and we almost go the other guy but he ended up winning. Funny stuff.
It sounds to me like you and your friend just shines that guy at 0% and killed him.
 

Lovage

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 15, 2007
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STANKONIA CA
yeah VR rush is tough to deal with sometimes.

the most important thing is to be perceptive with your initial scout and scans, if you see early 2 assim's in their base and a lack of gateway units or tech you can pretty much assume they have a statgate somewhere in their base or on the map.

i used to throw up e.bay and turrets when i saw rays coming, but well micro'd marines is a much better response. you can get turrets later in the game, but for the beginning if you have a wall off you can fend off 1 ray with 4 micro'd marines as long as you didn't let him fully charge on your gas/cc.

and then if it goes to mid-game and they're still using rays, vikings pwn them so that's the appropriate counter

good luck!!!
<- diamond terran
 

Melomaniacal

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yeah VR rush is tough to deal with sometimes.

the most important thing is to be perceptive with your initial scout and scans, if you see early 2 assim's in their base and a lack of gateway units or tech you can pretty much assume they have a statgate somewhere in their base or on the map.

i used to throw up e.bay and turrets when i saw rays coming, but well micro'd marines is a much better response. you can get turrets later in the game, but for the beginning if you have a wall off you can fend off 1 ray with 4 micro'd marines as long as you didn't let him fully charge on your gas/cc.

and then if it goes to mid-game and they're still using rays, vikings pwn them so that's the appropriate counter

good luck!!!
<- diamond terran
My issue is that I won't be able to scout at that key time where I can tell if they are VR rushing. I go in after my first pylon, I see a gateway, cybernetics, and gas. He rushes a Stalker out, kills my probe. Now I can't really scout until I get an Observer. By the time that happens, he will probably have a VR up, and I wasted resources/time on getting that Observer out quickly.

I think I'm just going to assume VR rush every time I play Protoss from now on. Pretty much every Protoss does it in PvP.
 

AvaricePanda

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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Indianapolis, Indiana
I feel like on most maps, VR rush would be something easy to deal with in PvP, although I won 3 placement matches using VR rush + gateway units on Desert Oasis. The air rush distance is much smaller than the ground one, and I usually had a proxy near their base so I could warp in reinforcements, and then I just did a two pronged attack.

If they do it too late though, it's easy to warp in stalkers or just have them anyway.
(or you could be lulzy and get phoenixes out lololol)

but like lovage said, your initial scout can help to see if they're going for it. how early their first gas is and if they get zealot before cybernetics are things that hint towards a possible VR rush (or just fast some tech in general). Usually I try to keep my scouting probe alive but park it near their base, like at a high ground they wouldn't check or at the Xelnaga Tower.

I think the easiest Protoss "win tactic" to scout is DT rush, because you have to get both gases pretty early and IIRC are focused on a more economic opening so you can get them out faster.

unrelated but i haven't been on for like 4-5 days because my guest pass ran out and a second one doesn't work, and I'm too lazy to make a new account lol. i'm getting the game like next week though.
 

shanus

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
6,055
yeah VR rush is tough to deal with sometimes.

the most important thing is to be perceptive with your initial scout and scans, if you see early 2 assim's in their base and a lack of gateway units or tech you can pretty much assume they have a statgate somewhere in their base or on the map.

i used to throw up e.bay and turrets when i saw rays coming, but well micro'd marines is a much better response. you can get turrets later in the game, but for the beginning if you have a wall off you can fend off 1 ray with 4 micro'd marines as long as you didn't let him fully charge on your gas/cc.

and then if it goes to mid-game and they're still using rays, vikings pwn them so that's the appropriate counter

good luck!!!
<- diamond terran
lovage have any good 2v2 partners?

<- diamond toss
 

Melomaniacal

Smash Champion
Joined
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So, weird thing happened today (five minute ago, actually).

I was rank nine in Silver. I played one match, won it, got promoted. Now I'm rank four in Platinum.
...how the hell did that happen?

I don't want to be in Platinum. I'm going to get ***** too much, haha.
 

shanus

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
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its because you transfer your points into your new league. Good luck in plat, im sure once you adjust you'll get your win rate back up. I know when I first transitioned to diamond it was a big change, but you get back into your element quick enough
 

rhan

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SoVA 757
I'm currently just playing Practice League matches, I want to get decent practice before I start.
Practice league is bad practice. It's not worth it. It's like playing Smash with items. Nothing good comes from it. You're better off playing against people in custom games.
 

TheBuzzSaw

Young Link Extraordinaire
Moderator
BRoomer
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Messages
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Practice league is bad practice. It's not worth it. It's like playing Smash with items. Nothing good comes from it. You're better off playing against people in custom games.
Yup... but do not forget to review the replays afterwards!!! They reveal everything! Watch the opponent. Carefully monitor build orders, scouting strategies, unit counts, etc. Just losing and then playing again will only get you so far...
 

Mic_128

Wake up...
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Stuff like this is the real reason I bought this game :D

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Zankoku

Never Knows Best
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Is anyone here still looking for a teammate for 2v2 league? I'm only silver, but I'll try not to be dead weight.
 

Fletch

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Shablagoo!!
Thanks for the post Mic. Custom maps are the reason I still play WC3... I can't wait to see what's in store for this game (as soon as I get a computer that can run it at least).
 

rhan

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Messages
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Is anyone here still looking for a teammate for 2v2 league? I'm only silver, but I'll try not to be dead weight.
Which race do you play? And how knowledgeable are you on the game?

I'm gold so we're not that far apart.
 

Zankoku

Never Knows Best
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I main Terran and usually build Vikings/Banshees, since I prefer specialized air support to just throwing out something big and scary (though Vikings seem pretty scary in their own right, especially in 2v2). I know a bit of Protoss and Zerg as well, but I usually forget about the Chrono Boost and I've never been any good at Zerg. I'm also unfamiliar with the hotkeys for those two races. I keep hitting B P on Protoss because I forgot they changed it to E. D: I'm at least good enough to protect myself against early rushes, including the rather popular Reaper rush, but I'm not particularly fast at throwing out my own rush, which is why I typically run tier 2 unit builds.

I couldn't find much in terms of 2v2 information on the web, so I've mostly just been doing my own thing in terms of builds. I probably suck horribly at 1v1. My last couple of experiences involved me failing at defending against rushes from unexpected directions.
 

rhan

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Add me later and we'll try out a few matches. Rhan#667

I'll probably be on anywhere between 6pmEST to 4amEST. Yeah I'm a night walker..
 

Mic_128

Wake up...
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JTB

Live for the applause
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I really hope they improve the custom game lobbies. Having the countdown start almost immediately with no way of leaving except for logging out is annoying.

I've also found Nexus Wars to be a good way to learn which units counter what.
 

rhan

Smash Hero
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So I haven't been able to play for at least a week due to work and Navy related stuff. But tomorrow night I'll be on. AFter tonight I'm off until Sunday. I need some games!
 

AvaricePanda

Smash Lord
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Indianapolis, Indiana
I really hope they improve the custom game lobbies. Having the countdown start almost immediately with no way of leaving except for logging out is annoying.
agreed by a lot.

I think SC2's placement system is a joke.
I only dislike the lack of a national ranking past diamond, or some league past diamond like pro league or something with just the top 500 people or something. Granted I'm nowhere close to that point (gold-platinum area), I don't like the idea of getting first in your diamond division and then not having too much motivation after that.

I suggest:

1) A league past diamond much more inclusive than diamond
2) A league past diamond that just has the top xxx amount of players.
3) A national ranking list

also, my sister still hasn't bought the game for me and it's been a month since my birthday :/. I've just been lurking teamliquid.net forever and been practicing a few builds in ladder. PvT is probably my most fun match-up despite a lot of people complaining how it's broken and T wins and ghosts are OPd (but like everyone complains that Terran's OPd lol, it's dumb). I don't like PvP because I feel like it turns into who makes more zealots early on or who does a 4-gate all-in. I don't like PvZ because my computer's garbo and can't handle Zerg's Creep without dropping to insanely low FPS.

unrelated but I wish my computer wasn't complete poop. I have to turn down like all my computer, graphics card, and in game settings to have bearable FPS vs. P and T, and vs. Z it's still bad. I also can't really play 2v2s/3v3s/4v4s/FFAs.

too bad I don't have money >_>
 
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