Standard Terms List 2.0

[Indigo Jeans]

Get on the IRC meng.

 

[SuSa]

How come everyone forgets Pummel as part of their moveset?

You know... the Grab Attack (Technically this is the most correct name for it...)

I rarely, if ever, see it in frame data threads.
It's not listed as a SubAction in our thread (It's 70 according to Smash Attacks name for it in relation to other grab related things)
It's not listed on our standard terms (but every other attack, and even some non-attack things are)

Poor Pummel.... T_T


[/color]

 

[Yikarur]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=249046
I have pummels inside! =D

 

[SuSa]

It's funny how that makes sense compared to the way I counted it in Smash Attack, but everyone else's is a mess..... =\ any help you can provide?

 

[Remzi]

Hey rPSI and Tristezas, if you want I can retake control of this thread.

I shouldn't have any trouble maintaining control of it and moving through it quickly now

 

[Remzi]

still wanna get this thing rolling again

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I'll talk with Sturds about ownership.

 

[phi1ny3]

Speaking of standard terms, I'm at a loss as to what to say about two components that are often dealt with in "Edgeguarding".

-Offstage play
-Ledge/onstage play

I've been getting into the habit of saying "Ledgeguarding" (and of course clarifying in a side note) that I mean to go into the analysis of which options you can cover when the opponent is on the edge (ex. Can I cover both a ledge attack and a getup ledge roll with a smash?)

That also brings to mind another problem in terminology. "Ledge hop". I think I might be okay in saying "Ledge jump" to determine the difference, but I'm not sure if everyone understands how to differentiate between the two. Ledge hop's been around for awhile and pretty much denotes the act of dropping of the ledge then using your double jump (usually with an attack or dodge) to land onto the stage. However, there's also the jump option from the ledge, where if one inputs X/Y/jump button, one jumps w/o using up a jump, which I understand as a "Ledge jump".

Do these need to be clarified? Or are there already terms that have been made for these situations?

 

[Yikarur]

well ledge hop is always considered at what you said, the other is actually always called ledge jump.
I think most of the community knows how to differ them but of course it should be stated in our term list.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

@title - is that old or legit because going to be gone all day

 

[KayLo!]

@Phil: I always consider ledge hop what you said, but I definitely agree that it should be clarified in the terms list.

 

[phi1ny3]

Okay, good to know, but also about the whole ledge gameplay v. "Edgeguarding". What about that? Because I know there's a lot of characters that are good at "Edgeguarding", but only in the ledge option part (Snake comes to mind). Wouldn't it be confusing to say "Snake is good at edgeguarding", only for newer players to think that they mean in dealing against the opponent offstage?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

K guys, I want to stop being a lazy arse and keep this rolling. Please tell me what you would like to discuss and/or re-discuss next meet.

Also, check the OP in about 15 minutes for new links.

 

[Remzi]

Okay, good to know, but also about the whole ledge gameplay v. "Edgeguarding". What about that? Because I know there's a lot of characters that are good at "Edgeguarding", but only in the ledge option part (Snake comes to mind). Wouldn't it be confusing to say "Snake is good at edgeguarding", only for newer players to think that they mean in dealing against the opponent offstage?

I've also always called the act of trying to keep someone offstage or in a bad position while are grabbing the ledge "ledgeguarding."

Edge guarding is just pressuring someone offstage I guess.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

For some reason, I've always defined "ledge" as the part you grab, and "edge" as the part you teeter on. So I use "ledgeguarding" and "edgeguarding" interchangeably, as for me, they both refer to the tactic of keeping the opponent away from grabbing a safe foothold back onstage. However, "edgeplay" would be stuff like planking, and "ledgeplay" could be "guarding". I don't know.

 

[Yikarur]

this project is so slooow for some reason.
why don't we progresses further? we don't need a meeting for that.

 

[Luxor]

We all just need to add stuff to the document ourselves that needs to be added and revise it when we meet. That would go faster.

 

[saviorslegacy]

Shield- A bubble that protects you.
Grab- The action were the foe is caught and rendered temporarily immobile and at the mercy of the catcher to either pummel, grab release or throw.
DI- Directional Influence
The action of controlling you momentum and were you go when attacked.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

We all just need to add stuff to the document ourselves that needs to be added and revise it when we meet. That would go faster.

This is a good idea. Though I'm kinda worried that the doc will get cluttered, unless each person creates their own text, and then during meets we revise each others' terms further.

 

[Yikarur]

Would it be possible to expel out the spread of the term "platform canceln" ?
I know EVERYONE ON THIS PLANET uses this term but I don't like it at all, it's awful, it has no sense etc.
It was sometimes called "auto-landing" but platform cancel established itself..
don't like ;__;

 

[rPSIvysaur]

it's pretty much too late to change it's name. sort of like wavebouncing...

 

[Yikarur]

this world is ruined ;__;

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Nobody(on the internet, at least), has the power to change language. It's just not possible. The best we can do is pick one of the many already established terms and use it as the standard. We can't really make up a term and hope it catches on.

Anyhow, I for one have no problem with "platfom cancel" when it's used right. I.e. platform cancelled Fair would literally be cancelling your fair with a platform. But saying "platform cancelling Fair" isn't really right... you can't cancel a platform.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Bumping because I can.

New when2meet link: http://when2meet.com/?78451-o6enU

 

[KayLo!]

I filled it out with what I think my availability will be, but my schedule revolves around social stuff...... so it could change anytime. Did my best tho. I really wanna make the next meeting.

 

[Yikarur]

I have no idea what the timezone difference in this schedule is D:

 

[Isatis]

I think everything is EST (GMT-5).

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Yep, until further notice, all times I post for anything are EST.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I have freakin clue when Ill be free. Family is around and my best bud is leaving for boot here soon so my schedule shifts... often.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Literally no time yet, I am non-existent right now for everything.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Alright, well I still greatly appreciate you all checking in anyhow.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Alright, well I still greatly appreciate you all checking in anyhow.

NP, if I can get any time, I'll drop by, but there's no way I can guarentee any time as free this weekend.

 

[Remzi]

I'll be working/with family/possibly a tournament, all week long.

won't be able to make a meeting this week.

 

[Kinzer]

I don't suppose there's anything going on Sunday, is there?

I'll wake up at nine anyway just to be sure.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Well, I promised it last Sunday, and I failed to complete. >__>

Here's my base list, make changes to it as you see fit and post them so we can pick this back up.

Z Aerial (Z-air) [Specific Characters] - The action performed by inputting "Z" or a shield button + "A" while airborne. It is also possible to cancel an airdodge into a Z-air. All Z-airs can be used to grab the ledge from a farther distance than usual, though not all have offensive collisions. In the following list, a "*" denotes a character with a Z-air that has offensive collisions.

[collapse=List of Compatible Characters]
Link*
Lucas
Samus*
Toon Link*[/collapse]

Tether [Specific Characters] - Any move that will allow a character to grab the ledge from a farther distance than usual. The following list gives characters with tethers and their tethers.

[collapse=List of Compatible Characters]Ice Climbers - Up Special
Ivysaur - Up Special
Link - Z Aerial
Lucas - Z Aerial
Olimar - Up Special
Samus - Z Aerial
Shiek - Side Special
Toon Link - Z Aerial
Zero Suit Samus - Up Special, Side Special[/collapse]

Shield [Universal] - The protective shield that appears around your character when a shield button is pressed. All shields can be kept out longer by holding a shield button down. All shields last a set amount of time, and if held for too long, will break. Blocking offensive collisions also subtracts from their health. All characters can be grabbed through their shields. All shields but Yoshi's shrink while they are being held, making the shielder prone to being shield poked, but gradually recover their size and health when they are not in use. All shields except Yoshi's can be angled by tilting the analogue stick. All shields can be cancelled into a grab, a jump (except Yoshi's), a spotdodge, a roll, and, if on a platform, a drop-through(except Yoshi's).

Shield Poke (Shield Stab) [Universal] - When one manages to make a shielding opponent suffer the effects of an offensive collision by hitting them where their shield does not protect them.

Powershield (PS, Perfect Shield) [Universal] - Pressing a shield button directly before an offensive collision would make contact with you. This results in a different blocking sound effect, and if the button was tapped, results in your shield being out for the least possible amount of time and losing no health. The shield button can also be held after a Powershield to keep the shield out longer.

Shield Break [Universal] - When your shield breaks from being held for too long, blocking too many hits/too strong a hit, or some combination of both. This pops your character into the air, and after landing and standing up, your character is in shield daze. Jigglypuff's shield breaking results in a Shield Blast.

Shield Blast(?) [Jigglypuff] - When Jigglypuff's shield breaks. Instead of simply being popped up into the air a bit then hitting the ground, Jigglypuff is shot upward very quickly. If there are no obstructions, this results in Jigglypuff being Knocked Out off the top of the screen.​

Jump Out of Shield (Jump OoS, Shield Jump) [Universal*] - Cancelling your shield into a jump by tapping up on the analogue stick.

*excluding Yoshi​

Shield Angling (Shield Tilt) [Universal*] - Angling your shield by tilting a direction on the analogue stick.

*excluding Yoshi​

Shield Platform Drop-through [Universal] - Cancelling your shield into a drop-through by gradually tilting the analogue stick down.

Shield Push (Shield Pushback) [Universal] - The pushing effect one suffers when their shield is attacked. This can be counteracted using Shield Directional Influence.

Shield Daze [Universal] - The state a character enters after their shield is broken and they hit the ground. While in this state, they are uncontrollable. If an offensive collision makes contact with them, they will snap out of shield daze after suffering the offensive collision's knockback, damage, and accompanying effects. Hits taken while in shield daze can still be Directionally Influenced (blanket term) as usual. Making struggle inputs while in shield daze reduces the time it would take for your character to snap out of it. Shield daze eventually wears off on its own. A shield will be near the end of its life directly after shield daze has worn off.

Grab [Universal] - The action that is executed by either pressing the "Z" button or a shield button + "A" while grounded. This causes your character to attempt a grab. If the opponent is in range, your character will grab them. All characters have differing grab ranges. All grabs, if timed correctly and are successful, will allow your character to ignore an offensive collision's knockback, but you will still suffer damage as normally. While grabbing an opponent, you can either pummel or throw them. After a certain amount of time, the opponent will break free of your grab if they are not thrown. While you are grabbed, executing struggle inputs will decrease the time it takes for you to break free.

Tether Grab [Specific Characters] - A grab that has more range than the average one, and is some type of extension or accessory.
[collapse=List of Compatible Characters]Ivysaur
Link
Lucas
Olimar
Samus
Toon Link
Yoshi
Zero Suit Samus[/collapse]​

Pummel (Grab Attack) [Universal] - The attack that is executed by pressing either the "A" or "Z" button while an opponent is in your grasp.

Forward Throw (F-throw) [Universal] - Throwing a grabbed opponent forward by tapping the direction your character is facing while they are in your grasp.

Down Throw (D-throw) [Universal] - Throwing a grabbed opponent downward by tapping down while they are in your grasp.

Up Throw (U-throw) [Universal] - Throwing a grabbed opponent upward by tapping up while they are in your grasp.

Back Throw (B-throw) [Universal] - Throwing a grabbed opponent backward by tapping the opposite direction your character is facing while they are in your grasp.

Grab Break (Grab Release) [Universal] - Escaping from being in your opponent's grasp. There are two variations of this: a grounded grab break and an aerial grab break.

Grounded Grab Break (Ground Release) [Universal] - Grab breaking onto the ground. To escape in this fashion one must either make no inputs while in the opponent's grasp or make struggle inputs excluding jump inputs.
Aerial Grab Break (Air Release) [Universal] - Grab breaking into the air. To escape in this fashion one must have included jump inputs while struggling.​

Struggle Inputs (Mashing) [Universal] - Pressing buttons and tapping the C-stick while grabbed, frozen, or in shield daze to decrease the time it would take for your character to be controllable again.

Knockback (KB) [Universal] - The term used to describe the launching force of an offensive collision.

Hitlag [Universal] - The term used to describe the frames when an offensive collision makes contact, where the attacker and the victim are "frozen" in place for a certain amount of time. It is during hitlag that Smash Directional Influence and Quarter Circle Directional Influence are possible.

Hitstun [Universal] - The term used to describe the period after hitlag, during knockback, where the attacker is no longer in hitlag, and the victim has their options restricted. Hitstun has three stages. During the first, the game will not read any inputs. In the second, the game will only read aerial attacks and airdodges. In the third stage, the game will read any inputs but drifting.

Shield Hitlag [Universal] - The term used to describe hitlag when attacking a shield or having your shield attacked. It is the same as hitlag; the attacker is frozen for a certain amount of time in their attack, and the victim is also frozen in their shield. Even if the victim releases the shield button, their shield will not drop until both shield hitlag and shieldstun have worn off. It is during shield hitlag that the victim can perform Shield Directional Influence. Shield hitlag is not any different when powershielding.

Shieldstun [Universal] - The term used to describe hitstun when your shield is being attacked. It is the same as hitstun; the attacker is no longer in shield hitlag, but the victim is still frozen in their shield. Even if the victim releases the shield button, their shield will not drop until both shield hitlag and shieldstun have worn off. Shieldstun is not any different when powershielding.

DI (Directional Influence) {Blanket Term} - The general term used when referring to the manual altering of your launch trajectory and/or direction when hit by an offensive collision. Directional Influence can only be performed by one that is being attacked, not one that is attacking.

DI (Directional Influence) [Universal] - The term used to describe the "bending" of your launch trajectory by holding a direction on the analogue stick as hitlag ends and knockback begins.

SDI (Smash Directional Influence) [Universal] - Tapping directions on the analogue stick while in hitlag to move a short distance in the tapped direction. A variation of this is TDI, Tap Directional Influence, which is done with the C-Stick.

QCDI (Quarter Circle Directional Influence) [Universal] - Rotating the analogue stick while in hitlag in a quarter circle to move three Smash Directional Influence units in a certain direction. For example, rotating the analogue stick from the north-western position to the north-eastern position would result first in a translation of one unit up + one unit left, then one unit up, and lastly one unit up + one unit right. This is also occasionally referred to as optimal DI. Quarter Circle Directional Influence cannot be done with the C-Stick.

ASDI (Automatic Smash Directional Influence) [Universal] - Holding or tapping a direction on the analogue stick on the first frame of knockback to be translated in a fashion similar to that of Smash Directional Influence.

Shield DI (Shield Directional Influence) [Universal] - Tapping a horizontal direction on either the analogue stick or the C-Stick while in shield hitlag to translate in a fashion similar to that of Smash Directional Influence. This can also be performed when powershielding.

ADI (Aerial Directional Influence) [Universal] - See: Drifting​

Drop-through [Universal] - When on a platform, falling through it by tapping down on the analogue stick. This can also be done while shielding. See: Shield Platform Drop-through.

Momentum Cancel/Momentum Cancelling [Universal] - An action or series of actions that serve to cancel or reduce knockback. All characters have some method to cancel or reduce knockback. The most common are aerials, fastfalling, a second jump, and air dodging.

Offensive Collision (Hitbox, Hitbubble) [Universal] - A fundemental component of the game that is an object or action's ability to deal damage, knockback, reduce a shield, item, or stage element's health, or some combination of the three. Offensive collisions are actually bubbles in Brawl, not boxes.

Hurtbox [Universal] - A fundemental component of the game that is an object's ability to be affected by offensive collisions.

--

Dunno if I missed anything, I wrote this in chunks. Tell me if I did, and again, make changes to it as you see fit and post them.

 

[Kinzer]

Wouldn't it be a good idea to make a quick mention somewhere in all of this that this assume a default Gamecube controller scheme if you're going to use terms like "A" "B" and "Z" buttons?

Isn't Yoshi's shield also capable of platform drop-throughs?

+ for "Shield pushback."

What's wrong with "Grab-release?"

"Shieldstun" and "shieldlag" feel like they are one in the same for me, and I prefer the former.

Overall, seems solid. I would just... fix a couple of typos I happened to notice.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Yeah. I might've missed I few typos. Like I said, I wrote this in pieces, so those were bound to be there.

Check for yourself using the frame advance code. Attack a shield. You'll see frames in which both the attacker and the victim are frozen(shieldlag), then the attacker will progress in his animation but the victim will have restrictions on his actions(shieldstun).

Idk about Yoshi, didn't check, and I'm no Yoshi main. cough Yika Yikarur.

Nothing's wrong with grab release, I just happen to use grab break.

Shield push, shield pushback... all the same to me. I've just always used shield push.

And yes, once I update the prototype in the second post for the final revision I'm going to include nice graphics and everything stating that this list uses Standard Gamecube Controller Settings.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

Rename Jigg's shield jump.
Shieldlag should be Shield Hitlag
Add:
(Ground Release) and (Air Release) for the grab breaks.
Shield Dropthrough to Shield Platform Dropthrough
Define Dropthrough
Reverse the order you have up for KB/Knockback
Add a subcategory to Z-air for Tethers (so they don't get confused about tethering/z-airing)
Add momentum cancelling maybe?

just some initial first notes, I'll help out in a bit. My sister just got back from college and is visiting.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Sounds good, sounds good.

Yeah, I was going to define tether, but it totally slipped my mind.

Also, I was thinking of defining "helpless" as the state a character is in when they cannot execute any actions, roughly. Yes/no?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Oh, and, uh, in case you guys hadn't noticed, I updated my base list. I'm still waiting for the critique of other members so this thing can get green-lighted and I can add it to the second post.