Standard Terms List 2.0

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Yikarur

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#1
This is way overdue. The last one was published over a year ago, so clearly, we have some work to do.

Lets shoot to get this thing finished and out to tactical by: September 15, 2010.Tentative date: December 20, 2010.

Current when2meet link: http://when2meet.com/?78451-o6enU

Smash Lab Standard Terms List Version 1: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227773

BY SMASHLAB MEETING ON THE 7TH OF SEP 2010 10:41:46 PM: http://pastebin.com/XaSk1wPd

BY SMSHLB100810 ON THE 8TH OF OCT 2010 05:33:08 PM: http://pastebin.com/sz0GaHm9

I will keep updating the OP with our current discussion topic, as well as a progress report. The progress report will show each topic we've discussed as well as a conclusion. After covering most of the important topics, we will proceed to add any new terms that we see fit.

Current Topic: Define Shield-, Grab-, DI-, and Hit-Related Terms/TBA?

We need to gather which terms will be used and how to determine if a character specific version should be included, or if it is to close to vanilla terminology.

We will format the data and prepare it for the list.

Universal terms will be gathered!

[collapse="Old Topic Info"]Here is the original Smash Lab Terms list: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227773

There are obviously a TON of changes that need to be made. What we need to figure out now is what can stay and what needs to go.

Obviously things such as melee terms and general tournament stuff will be cut.

And guys, we are talking specifics here.

"I think most of the brawl terms look good" is not an acceptable response here. We need to know WHICH words need to be scrapped, WHICH words need new definitions, and WHAT THOSE NEW DEFINITIONS WILL BE.

This revised version of list 1.0 that we make will become the first draft of 2.0. It will be very far from the final thing but its a starting point. [/collapse]


Progress Report:

08/15/10- Standard Terms List 2.0 Project Launched

08/17/10- Compromise on whether things should be named technically or non-technically concluded. General format for each term's presentation has also been drafted. Here are some examples: DACUS and Special Charge Airdodge Cancel

08/21/10- We decided which types of terms the list would encompass. Melee terms and general "community" terms will be completely scrapped. The list will only give terms relating to general Brawl Mechanics and Character specific techniques. These are character specific techs are not to be confused with tricks

09/02/10- We went over some terms and figured out which ones would be kept. We figured that since the format was changing, a lot of them would be present, but redefined in new ways so a lot of the old list will only serve as a reminder to include some terms

09/24/10- Project and thread comes under the control of Indigo Jeans

09/25/10- Second post updated with the current terms we have finished, making it a working prototype

10/08/10- The team meets again to discuss various DI-, hit-, shield-, and grab-related terms. The top half of the OP is updated with important links. Thanks go to 2link121 for saving the chat log

10/30/10- New when2meet link added to OP

4/1/11 - Project and thread comes under the control of Yikarur
 

Yikarur

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
4,595
Location
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#2
Current Terms List:


General Terms:
Tapping – Quickly moving control stick from neutral to full throw.
Tilting – Moving /Holding the control stick slightly in one direction or holding in one direction.

Input/Action – an Input is a pressed button which occurs in what the button is mapped for.

Input
Gamecube Controller

Attack A
Special B
Jump X, Y
Tap-Jump Tap Up
Shield L, R
Grab* Z
Smash C-Stick
Taunt D-Pad

*Grab Input is a shortcut for “Shield + Attack” which results in “Grab”. Both Inputs are present as long as the button is held but only shield is visible due to it's holding activity.

Frame – One Frame is a 1/60th of a second and is the standard time unit used in Brawl and in any explanation in this list.



Standard Attacks:
Jab[Universal] - the action when a player inputs an attack with the control stick in the neutral position
Jab1 [Universal] - The first of the standard attack when you press the attack button in neutral position.
Jab2 [Specific Characters] - The second of the standard attack. If you hold A when Jab1 connects, you should automatically go into Jab2. [collapse=List of Compatible Characters]Bowser
Donkey Kong
Ice Climbers
Jigglypuff
Marth
Olimar
Peach
ROB
Samus
Wario
Yoshi
[/collapse]
Jab3 [Specific Characters] - The third (and usually last) hit of a standard attack combo. If you hold A when Jab2 connects, you should automatically go into Jab3. [collapse=List of Compatible Characters]Charizard
Ike
Link
Lucario
Lucas
Luigi
Mario
Ness
Pit
Snake
Sonic
Squirtle
Toon Link
Wolf
Zero Suit Samus
[/collapse]
Rapid Jab [Specific Characters] - When the standard attack combo is inputted, it is a multi-hit move that does not end until you release the attack button. [collapse=List of Compatible Characters]Captain Falcon
Diddy Kong
Falco
Fox
Ivysaur
King DeDeDe
Kirby
Link
Meta Knight
Mr. Game and Watch
Pikachu
Pit*
Shiek

*goes only into Rapid Jab by rapidly pressing Attack.
[/collapse]​

Tilts:

Forward Tilt (F-Tilt, Ftilt) [Universal] - The attack that is input from tilting the analog stick slightly sideways and hitting the attack button

F-Tilt2 [Meta Knight, Snake] - The second hit of Meta Knight’s and Snake’s F-tilt
F-Tilt3 [Meta Knight] - The third hit of Meta Knight’s F-tilt​
Up/Down Angled Ftilts[Specific Characters] – Some characters ftilt can be tilted up or down. They sometimes vary in damage and knockback from the neutral ftilt.
[collapse=List of Compatible Characters]
[/collapse]

Down Tilt (D-tilt, Dtilt) [Universal] - The attack that is input from tilting the analog stick slightly down and hitting the attack button, or done while crouching and hitting the attack button
Up Tilt (U-Tilt, Utilt) [Universal] - The attack that is input from tilting the analog stick slightly up and hitting the attack button, or done while holding up and hitting the attack button

Smashes:
Forward Smash (F-Smash, Fsmash) [Universal] - The attack that occurs from a tap of the control stick sideways and the attack button. It can also be done using the c-stick (on default settings)
F-Smash2 [Link, Toon Link] - The second strike of Link and Toon Link's Fsmash. The A button must be pressed after the first strike for the second one to be initiated.​
Up/Down Angled F-Smashes[Specific Characters] – Some characters F-smash can be tilted up or down. They sometimes vary in damage and knockback from the neutral F-smash.
[collapse=List of Compatible Characters]
[/collapse]
Down Smash (D-Smash, Dsmash) [Universal] - The attack that occurs from a tap of the control stick downwards and the attack button. It can also be done using the c-stick (on default settings)
Up Smash (U-Smash) [Universal] - The attack that occurs from a tap of the control stick upwards and the attack button. It can also be done using the c-stick (on default settings)
Smash Charge[Universal] – The Action of charging a Smash. A charged Smash becomes more powerful the longer the charge is held. The Max Charge Length of each smash is exactly one second (60 frames) but each smash has an individual time when the charge starts in their smash animation.

Aerials
Forward Aerial (F-Air, Fair) [Universal] - The attack that occurs while you hold or tap the control stick forward (from the direction you are facing) and the attack button while in the air.
Backward Aerial (B-Air, Bair) [Universal] - The attack that occurs while you hold or tap the control stick backward (from the direction you are facing) and the attack button while in the air.
Up Aerial (U-Air,Uair,Up-Air) [Universal] - The attack that occurs while you hold or tap the control stick upward (from the direction you are facing) and the attack button while in the air.
Down Aerial (D-Air, Dair) [Universal] - The attack that occurs while hold or tap the control stick downward (from the direction you are facing) and the attack button while in the air.
Neutral Aerial (N-Air, Nair) [Universal] - The attack that occurs while your control stick is in a neutral, centered position and the attack button is input while in the air.
Z-air [Specific Characters] - The attack that occurs by inputting "Grab" or a “Shield” + "Attack" Input while airborne. It is also possible to cancel an airdodge into a Z-air by pressing “Attack” during airdodge. All Z-airs can be used to grab the ledge from a farther distance than usual, though not all do damage. In the following list, a "*" denotes a character with a Z-air that does damage.
[collapse=List of Compatible Characters]
Link*
Lucas
Samus*
Toon Link*[/collapse]

Specials


Grabs and Throws
Grab [Universal] - The action that is executed by either pressing "Grab" button or a “shield” + "Attack" while grounded. This causes your character to attempt a grab. If the opponent is in range, your character will grab them. All characters have differing grab ranges. While grabbing an opponent, you can either pummel or throw them. After a certain amount of time, the opponent will break free of your grab if they are not thrown. While you are grabbed, executing struggle inputs will decrease the time it takes for you to Grab Release.
Tether Grab [Specific Characters] - A grab that has more range than the average one, and is some type of extension or accessory.
[collapse=List of Compatible Characters]Ivysaur
Link
Lucas
Olimar
Samus
Toon Link
Zero Suit Samus[/collapse]​

Pummel (Grab Attack) [Universal] - The attack that is executed by pressing “Attack” while the opponent is held after a successful grab.
Forward Throw (F-Throw) [Universal] - Throwing a grabbed opponent forward by tapping the direction your character is facing while they are in your grasp.
Down Throw (D-Throw) [Universal] - Throwing a grabbed opponent downward by tapping down while they are in your grasp.
Up Throw (U-Throw) [Universal] - Throwing a grabbed opponent upward by tapping up while they are in your grasp.
Back Throw (B-Throw) [Universal] - Throwing a grabbed opponent backward by tapping the opposite direction your character is facing while they are in your grasp.

Grab Release [Universal] - Escaping from being in your opponent's grasp. There are two variations of this: a grounded grab release and an aerial grab release.
Ground Release [Universal] – Grab releasing onto the ground. To escape in this fashion one must either make no inputs while in the opponent's grasp or make struggle inputs excluding jump inputs.
Air Release [Universal] – Grab releasing into the air. To escape in this fashion one must have included jump inputs while struggling.​



Movement:
Walk [Universal] – Movement by tilting the control stick while being on the ground. The character walks faster with farther tilting.
Initial Dash [Universal] – Movement performed by tapping the control stick left/right. The character enters a dash animation which becomes “Run” if the control stick is held.
Can be cancelled into a “Dash Attack”, “Jump”, “Up-Smash” or “Side Special”.
Additionally in the initial five frames you can cancel the dash into an “F-Smash”, “Turnaround” or “Roll”.
Run [Universal] - The state after a dash. Can be cancelled into a jump, pivot, skid, dash attack, Up-Smash, or special.
Pivot (Dash Pivot, Run Pivot) [Universal] - The state in which one changes directions out of a run. After the successful turnaround the character will run again. Can be cancelled into any controlstick movement and jump.
Jump [Universal] - The movement caused by pressing the jump button.
Jump Start (Jump Squat) [Universal] - The window between when a jump is input and the character is airborne. During this period the jump can be cancelled into an Up Special or Up Smash.
Short Hop [Universal] - The jump height caused by releasing the jump button in Jump Start.
Full Hop [Universal] - The jump height caused by holding the jump button throughout the whole Jump Start.
Double Jump (applies to all aerial jumps) [Universal] - A jump input while one is already airborne. Most characters only have one double jump; select characters have more. [collapse=List of Compatible Multijump Characters]Charizard
Jigglypuff
King DeDeDe
Kirby
Metaknight
Pit[/collapse]​
Glide [Specific Characters] - The state activated by holding the jump button or pressing back and forth right after the Double Jump. Can also be started by Meta Knight‘s shuttle loop (up-special)
[collapse=List of Compatible Characters]
Meta Knight
Charizard
Pit
[/collapse]
Glide Attack – Move performed by pressing Attack during glide. Glide Attack autocancels in every frame of the move.

Crouch [Universal] - The state activated by pressing down on the control stick.
Crawl [Specific Characters] - Moving forward and backward while crouching. [collapse=List of Compatible Characters]Bowser
Diddy Kong
Ivysaur
Lucario
Luigi
Pikachu
Shiek
Snake
Squirtle
Wario
Yoshi[/collapse]​
Falling [Universal] - The natural effect of in game gravity.
Drifting [Universal] - Using the control stick to influence horizontal air movement while falling. Is often also referred to, erroneously, as Air Directional Influence, or ADI.​



Dodges:
Air Dodge [Universal] - Pressing shield while in the air to become invincible for a short time.
Spotdodge (aka Side-step) [Universal] - Pressing shield + down while grounded to become invincible for a short time.
Forward Roll [Universal] - Pressing shield + forward to become invincible for a short time and roll forward.
Backward Roll [Universal] - Pressing shield + backward to become invincible for a short time and roll backward.



Ledge Movement:

<100%, >100% Ledge Options[ Universal] Every Basic Ledge Option has a 100+% Version and a <100% Version. The <100% Version is fast and has less duration while the 100+% Version is slow and lasts long.
Ledge Roll [Universal] - Pressing shield while on the ledge to roll off the ledge with invincibility.
Ledge Jump [Universal] - Pressing jump while on the ledge to jump at a height comparable to a Full Hop.
Ledge Get-up [Universal] - Holding towards the stage while on the ledge to perform a get-up action with invincibility frames.
Ledge Attack [Universal] - Pressing attack while on the ledge to perform an attack with some invincibility frames.​
Ledge Grab [Universal] - The act of grabbing the ledge from the air.
Ledge Hang [Universal] - Doing nothing while on the ledge.
Ledge Drop[Universal] – pressing back or down to drop from the ledge.
Ledge Hop[Universal] – Using the Double Jump after a Ledge Drop to (usually) jump back On-Stage.
 

Yikarur

Smash Master
Joined
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Messages
4,595
Location
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#3
*temporary content*

To Be Added


Z Aerial (Z-air) [Specific Characters] - The action performed by inputting "Z" or a shield button + "A" while airborne. It is also possible to cancel an airdodge into a Z-air. All Z-airs can be used to grab the ledge from a farther distance than usual, though not all have offensive collisions. In the following list, a "*" denotes a character with a Z-air that has offensive collisions.

[collapse=List of Compatible Characters]
Link*
Lucas
Samus*
Toon Link*[/collapse]

Tether [Specific Characters] - Any move that will allow a character to grab the ledge from a farther distance than usual. The following list gives characters with tethers and their tethers.

[collapse=List of Compatible Characters]Ice Climbers - Up Special
Ivysaur - Up Special
Link - Z Aerial
Lucas - Z Aerial
Olimar - Up Special
Samus - Z Aerial
Shiek - Side Special
Toon Link - Z Aerial
Zero Suit Samus - Up Special, Side Special[/collapse]

Shield [Universal] - The protective shield that appears around your character when a shield button is pressed. All shields can be kept out longer by holding a shield button down. All shields last a set amount of time, and if held for too long, will break. Blocking offensive collisions also subtracts from their health. All characters can be grabbed through their shields. All shields but Yoshi's shrink while they are being held, making the shielder prone to being shield poked, but gradually recover their size and health when they are not in use. All shields except Yoshi's can be angled by tilting the analogue stick. All shields can be cancelled into a grab, a jump (except Yoshi's), a spotdodge, a roll, and, if on a platform, a drop-through(except Yoshi's).

Shield Poke (Shield Stab) [Universal] - When one manages to make a shielding opponent suffer the effects of an offensive collision by hitting them where their shield does not protect them.

Powershield (PS, Perfect Shield) [Universal] - Pressing a shield button directly before an offensive collision would make contact with you. This results in a different blocking sound effect, and if the button was tapped, results in your shield being out for the least possible amount of time and losing no health. The shield button can also be held after a Powershield to keep the shield out longer.

Shield Break [Universal] - When your shield breaks from being held for too long, blocking too many hits/too strong a hit, or some combination of both. This pops your character into the air, and after landing and standing up, your character is in shield daze. Jigglypuff's shield breaking results in a Shield Blast.
Shield Blast(?) [Jigglypuff] - When Jigglypuff's shield breaks. Instead of simply being popped up into the air a bit then hitting the ground, Jigglypuff is shot upward very quickly. If there are no obstructions, this results in Jigglypuff being Knocked Out off the top of the screen.​

Jump Out of Shield (Jump OoS, Shield Jump) [Universal*] - Cancelling your shield into a jump by tapping up on the analogue stick.
*excluding Yoshi​

Shield Angling (Shield Tilt) [Universal*] - Angling your shield by tilting a direction on the analogue stick.
*excluding Yoshi​

Shield Platform Drop-through [Universal] - Cancelling your shield into a drop-through by gradually tilting the analogue stick down.

Shield Push (Shield Pushback) [Universal] - The pushing effect one suffers when their shield is attacked. This can be counteracted using Shield Directional Influence.

Shield Daze [Universal] - The state a character enters after their shield is broken and they hit the ground. While in this state, they are uncontrollable. If an offensive collision makes contact with them, they will snap out of shield daze after suffering the offensive collision's knockback, damage, and accompanying effects. Hits taken while in shield daze can still be Directionally Influenced (blanket term) as usual. Making struggle inputs while in shield daze reduces the time it would take for your character to snap out of it. Shield daze eventually wears off on its own. A shield will be near the end of its life directly after shield daze has worn off.



Grab [Universal] - The action that is executed by either pressing the "Z" button or a shield button + "A" while grounded. This causes your character to attempt a grab. If the opponent is in range, your character will grab them. All characters have differing grab ranges. All grabs, if timed correctly and are successful, will allow your character to ignore an offensive collision's knockback, but you will still suffer damage as normally. While grabbing an opponent, you can either pummel or throw them. After a certain amount of time, the opponent will break free of your grab if they are not thrown. While you are grabbed, executing struggle inputs will decrease the time it takes for you to break free.
Tether Grab [Specific Characters] - A grab that has more range than the average one, and is some type of extension or accessory.
[collapse=List of Compatible Characters]Ivysaur
Link
Lucas
Olimar
Samus
Toon Link
Yoshi
Zero Suit Samus[/collapse]​

Pummel (Grab Attack) [Universal] - The attack that is executed by pressing either the "A" or "Z" button while an opponent is in your grasp.

Forward Throw (F-throw) [Universal] - Throwing a grabbed opponent forward by tapping the direction your character is facing while they are in your grasp.

Down Throw (D-throw) [Universal] - Throwing a grabbed opponent downward by tapping down while they are in your grasp.

Up Throw (U-throw) [Universal] - Throwing a grabbed opponent upward by tapping up while they are in your grasp.

Back Throw (B-throw) [Universal] - Throwing a grabbed opponent backward by tapping the opposite direction your character is facing while they are in your grasp.

Grab Break (Grab Release) [Universal] - Escaping from being in your opponent's grasp. There are two variations of this: a grounded grab break and an aerial grab break.
Grounded Grab Break (Ground Release) [Universal] - Grab breaking onto the ground. To escape in this fashion one must either make no inputs while in the opponent's grasp or make struggle inputs excluding jump inputs.
Aerial Grab Break (Air Release) [Universal] - Grab breaking into the air. To escape in this fashion one must have included jump inputs while struggling.​

Struggle Inputs (Mashing) [Universal] - Pressing buttons and tapping the C-stick while grabbed, frozen, or in shield daze to decrease the time it would take for your character to be controllable again.



Knockback (KB) [Universal] - The term used to describe the launching force of an offensive collision.

Hitlag [Universal] - The term used to describe the frames when an offensive collision makes contact, where the attacker and the victim are "frozen" in place for a certain amount of time. It is during hitlag that Smash Directional Influence and Quarter Circle Directional Influence are possible.

Hitstun [Universal] - The term used to describe the period after hitlag, during knockback, where the attacker is no longer in hitlag, and the victim has their options restricted. Hitstun has three stages. During the first, the game will not read any inputs. In the second, the game will only read aerial attacks and airdodges. In the third stage, the game will read any inputs but drifting.

Shield Hitlag [Universal] - The term used to describe hitlag when attacking a shield or having your shield attacked. It is the same as hitlag; the attacker is frozen for a certain amount of time in their attack, and the victim is also frozen in their shield. Even if the victim releases the shield button, their shield will not drop until both shield hitlag and shieldstun have worn off. It is during shield hitlag that the victim can perform Shield Directional Influence. Shield hitlag is not any different when powershielding.

Shieldstun [Universal] - The term used to describe hitstun when your shield is being attacked. It is the same as hitstun; the attacker is no longer in shield hitlag, but the victim is still frozen in their shield. Even if the victim releases the shield button, their shield will not drop until both shield hitlag and shieldstun have worn off. Shieldstun is not any different when powershielding.



DI (Directional Influence) {Blanket Term} - The general term used when referring to the manual altering of your launch trajectory and/or direction when hit by an offensive collision. Directional Influence can only be performed by one that is being attacked, not one that is attacking.
DI (Directional Influence) [Universal] - The term used to describe the "bending" of your launch trajectory by holding a direction on the analogue stick as hitlag ends and knockback begins.

SDI (Smash Directional Influence) [Universal] - Tapping directions on the analogue stick while in hitlag to move a short distance in the tapped direction. A variation of this is TDI, Tap Directional Influence, which is done with the C-Stick.

QCDI (Quarter Circle Directional Influence) [Universal] - Rotating the analogue stick while in hitlag in a quarter circle to move three Smash Directional Influence units in a certain direction. For example, rotating the analogue stick from the north-western position to the north-eastern position would result first in a translation of one unit up + one unit left, then one unit up, and lastly one unit up + one unit right. This is also occasionally referred to as optimal DI. Quarter Circle Directional Influence cannot be done with the C-Stick.

ASDI (Automatic Smash Directional Influence) [Universal] - Holding or tapping a direction on the analogue stick on the first frame of knockback to be translated in a fashion similar to that of Smash Directional Influence.

Shield DI (Shield Directional Influence) [Universal] - Tapping a horizontal direction on either the analogue stick or the C-Stick while in shield hitlag to translate in a fashion similar to that of Smash Directional Influence. This can also be performed when powershielding.

ADI (Aerial Directional Influence) [Universal] - See: Drifting



Drop-through [Universal] - When on a platform, falling through it by tapping down on the analogue stick. This can also be done while shielding. See: Shield Platform Drop-through.



Momentum Cancel/Momentum Cancelling [Universal] - An action or series of actions that serve to cancel or reduce knockback. All characters have some method to cancel or reduce knockback. The most common are aerials, fastfalling, a second jump, and air dodging.



Offensive Collision (Hitbox, Hitbubble) [Universal] - A fundemental component of the game that is an object or action's ability to deal damage, knockback, reduce a shield, item, or stage element's health, or some combination of the three. Offensive collisions are actually bubbles in Brawl, not boxes.

Hurtbox [Universal] - A fundemental component of the game that is an object's ability to be affected by offensive collisions.



So our current format for terms is

Official Name/Acronym (Vernacular Name/Acronym Explained *if applicable*) [Cast Availability] - Description
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
16,415
#4
I'd prefer to use technical names when possible.

Things like Shield Breaker Bouncing should be split up into it's basic components. Like B-reversal Shield Breaker would be a better term.

Most AT's revolve around buffering, canceling or b-reversals.

Let's take Reverse Hyphen U-smash. This name doesn't quite exactly describe exactly what the inputs are or what it is. Instead something like Jump Canceling RAR U-smash would be better. so JCRARUS (LOL) would end up being the technical name. But we don't really want to show disconnect with the community. The community would hardly ever consider adopting a name like JCRARUS. This leads me to think we should include both a technical name and a non-technical name for the thread.
 

TheMike

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 24, 2009
Messages
1,860
Location
Brazil
#5
Well, I guess the terms should be technically named, and we must use the most popular nomination. For example, Snake's Dash Attack-Canceled-Up-Smash is more popular than Snake Dashing/Mortal Sliding, and the same term can be used for other character rather than X character sliding. More popular names classified as official might improve the communication between the members.

I've no objections with who discovered the AT naming it. In case it's a weird name and/or difficult of pronunciation, we(the Smash Lab) must talk to the person to discuss a better name. In my opinion, the terms should also be easily abbreviated.
 
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
16,415
#6
People naming thing is fine, we should have that listed, but we should also give the technical name (if possible).

Take for example the rotating Bike Glitch. People have already dubbed this as the Forbidden Wario technique. We should note that in the terms list, but it is not by any way actually Forbidden. The name of the move should basically break down what it is. In this case, I assume it would be Accelerating Bike Glitch (ABG).

I'd also like to note with DACUS, is that DACUS is the actual technical name. It's Dash Attack Canceling Up Smash. And that perfectly describes the actual attack. A name like mortar sliding would just be a noted name just like the Forbidden Wario technique would be a noted name.
 

Luxor

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
2,155
Location
Frame data threads o.0
#7
For the official list, we should refer to things by their technical name, but I think we should also include an AKA section where appropriate, as for Snake's DACUS or Falco's DAHCUS/DLX/"Gatling combo."
I think we need to make sure the final list makes clear that "X cancelled Y" means X cancelled by or into Y, and that DI refers to what is read on the last frame of hitlag, not drifting.

Oh, and some kind of community standard about the meaning of wavebounced vs. B-reversal vs. turnaround B move vs. Whatever else it's called. Version 1 takes the input before the B move and doesn't reverse momentum, while Version 2 takes the input after and does. What do we call them? Special Reversed and Special Momentum Reversed, respectively? I think "wavebounced" is just a misleading term that makes one think of Melee. I think B-reversal should go, too, because nit everyone uses B as the special button or even uses a GC controller.
 
Joined
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Messages
16,415
#8
For the official list, we should refer to things by their technical name, but I think we should also include an AKA section where appropriate, as for Snake's DACUS or Falco's DAHCUS/DLX/"Gatling combo."
I think we need to make sure the final list makes clear that "X cancelled Y" means X cancelled by or into Y, and that DI refers to what is read on the last frame of hitlag, not drifting.
Veril said:
Edit: decided to take down the old list, I'll repost the terms we actually need. We don't need a definition for everything that can be canceled ;p defining canceling is waaay easier lol. The problem is that "canceled" is used sometimes when what we should be saying is "canceling". Canceled refers to the affected object, Canceling refers to the effector. Yet we still say "Ledge Canceled Aerials" and "Jump-canceled up-smash". The syntax is completely reversed. The ledge isn't getting canceled (ledge-canceling ≠ lightstepping which actually is canceling the ledgesnap), the landing lag from the aerial is. When people say something like "Jump-canceled shine" it gets even more confusing. Since we can't get rid of these exceptions, we should absolutely avoid allowing any new ones to surface.

"X" Canceled "Y":
a. action X is ended early and "canceled" into action Y or action "Y" is canceled by "X". Since we're using an acronym, its really important that we have a way to differentiate the two other than just knowing it. Otherwise I'd say you could differentiate "canceled" from "canceling".
•Jump-canceled, Double Jump Canceled, Dash-attack canceled, dash attack hit canceled, Jab canceled.
b. action X reduces an effect (lag or hitstun generally) of action Y or ends action Y in a specific manner.
•Crouch Canceled, Autocanceled, land-canceled, ledge-canceled.
*cough* *cough*


Oh, and some kind of community standard about the meaning of wavebounced vs. B-reversal vs. turnaround B move vs. Whatever else it's called. Version 1 takes the input before the B move and doesn't reverse momentum, while Version 2 takes the input after and does. What do we call them? Special Reversed and Special Momentum Reversed, respectively? I think "wavebounced" is just a misleading term that makes one think of Melee. I think B-reversal should go, too, because nit everyone uses B as the special button or even uses a GC controller.
B-reversal: The turnaround of a special attack which occurs slightly after the special starts which also reverses momentum.
Turnaround B Move: The turnaround of a special attack that was caused by a direction behind held before the attack starts. Momentum is retained.
Wavebounce: The combination of B-reversal and Turnaround B move which causes the character to face the original direction and reverse momentum.
 

Luxor

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#9
Ah. I usually hear wavebounced used to mean B-reversed. Also, how do he fit those into acronyms? Would SHWBDL or SHTDL or SHBRDL be valid acronyms for derivatives of Falco's SHDL? Or would the SHWBDL be called SHTBRDL? Or do we try to keep them from becoming acronyms altogether? If I'm confused about this, you can bet a lot of other people are too. This list needs to be crystal clear and precise.
 
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#10
SHWBDL shouldn't be lumped as a "move". A short hopped wavebounced Double Laser is just a conglomerate of several different things. It's not like the moving laser technique. It's just the applications of several AT's strung into a Short Hop. So SHWBDL wouldn't even be a move, it would just be an acronym players can use when the WB a SHDL.
 
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#11
Honestly, as long as the name does not create too much confusion about the inputs and the actual action, i.e., keeps syntax intact*asdfljsdfDACUSdsfljasd*, there should be no problem.

Now, I also believe that for some actions, there should be a vernacular name, and a technical name. There's digging, and then there's excavating. Doggy and then there's Canis lupus familiaris. For example, "Wario Forbidden Technique" is fine when you're just discussing it without any regards to how it works. But imo we should look into its mechanics more, not only to give it a technical name, but to see if it warrants a technical name all to its own, or if other glitches share the same characteristics, and if we should create a new "category". This would also help jumpstart the project.

Like, what if only snake could DACUS? It would be then possible that its technical name would be "dash-canceling mortar", seeing as it was character specific. But because others can do it with their USmashes, a category had to be created to lump them all together, a new genus, if you will.

Genus: DACUS
Species: Mortar Slide


Get my point?
 
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#14
Agreed on including a technical and popular name for terms. I don't know about creating categories like IJ is suggesting though... seems unnecessarily complicated, and probably doesn't apply to that many things.
 
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#15
When I said genus/species, I was only using it as an example. And besides, how hard can creating categories be? DACUS is a category, and mortar slide just falls into it. Cancelling aerial specials with L/R is a category (though it doesn't have a technical name... Special Airdodge Cancelling? Idk), and Gyro Cancelling falls into it too. Etc. I don't mean that when the structuring of the terms list happens, we actually type out a category then list stuff in it, I mean that we should just include a section somewhere with character specific ATs, and in their descriptions, mention the base AT.

Example:

DACUS(Dash Attack Cancelling UpSmash)[Universal]- The act of cancelling a character's dash attack with their UpSmash. All characters have different windows in their dash attacks that can be used to cancel them, and the amount of distance the slide covers varies by character as well.

---stuff---

Mortar Sliding[Snake]- One of the popular names used when refering to Snake's DACUS. The name is derived from the fact that Snake's mortar is present in the action.
 
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#16
Alright, so here's the type of format I'm thinking for it:

DACUS (Dash Attack Cancelling Up-Smash) [Universal] - All characters have different windows in their dash attacks that can be used to cancel them, and the amount of distance the slide covers varies by character as well. copy pasta'd
How to Perform: Input Dash Attack
During the initial frames of Dash Attack, Input Up-Smash
~Mortar Sliding [Snake] - One of the popular names used when refering to Snake's DACUS. The name is derived from the fact that Snake's mortar is present in the action.
~Gatling Combo [Falco] - The use of Falco's Dash Attack to combo into the Up-Smash do to the larger frame window that Falco has to cancel his Dash Attack.
 

KayLo!

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#17
Looks good to me.

Also approve of switching "canceled" to "canceling"..... that always bothered me. -_-
 
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#18
I'm liking that. And not only because stuff was borrowed from my example. :D

So...

SAC (Special Airdodge Cancel) [Certain Characters] - Certain characters have windows in their aerial specials in which they can be cancelled by inputting an airdodge. Depending on the timing, the special will either be cancelled into a normal fall or into an actual airdodge.
*List of characters that can perform it/specials with which it can be performed(?)*
How to Perform: Input a cancellable special while in the air, then input an airdodge in the desired effect's window.
~Gyro Cancelling [R.O.B.] - The popular name used when refering to cancelling R.O.B.'s aerial Gyro Charge. Usually refers to the more optimal cancel which leads to a normal fall.
~Giant Punch Cancel [Donkey Kong] - The popular name used to refer to cancelling Donkey Kong's aerial Giant Punch charge. When an airdodge is input between wind effects, an airdodge occurs. When an airdodge is input during a wind effect, a normal fall is induced.

---

I might've gotten the DK cancel details mixed up and put down the wrong vernacular name, so if anybody could double check that, that'd be great. It'd also be nice to get a list of cancellable specials. I think Shiek can cancel her needles.
 
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#19
I believe that we have found a good format. I think Bengals should update the OP.

Oh and I think it should be called Special Charge Aerial Cancel BTW.
 

Remzi

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#20
Great work, guys! We got that finished pretty fast.

New topic is up. Lets try to move quickly, we have a lot of work ahead of us.
 
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#21
Only universal terms?
Character specific terms?
What about terms relating to the community/tournaments but not necessarily smash itself?
Will we do any melee terms?
I think we should do all the Character Specific Terms and all the Universal Terms.
I think we should do a terms list of community/tournaments, but only with the help of the BBR. (Mind helping out TheMike?)
We can just copy-paste the old melee terms. :p
 

KayLo!

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#22
All terms (universal and character-specific).
No to community terms. Imo we should stick to gameplay stuff.
No to Melee terms, but I'm not a Melee player, so I don't particularly care.
 

TheMike

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#23
I think we should do all the Character Specific Terms and all the Universal Terms.
I think we should do a terms list of community/tournaments, but only with the help of the BBR. (Mind helping out TheMike?)
We can just copy-paste the old melee terms. :p
I can help if the community/tournaments terms will be listed. +1 for Character Specific and Universal terms, and I guess some MBR members can help with the Melee terms in case changes happened after the first list was released.
 

Remzi

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#24
I think we should scrap melee terms altogether to be honest. This list is going to Brawl Tactical Discussion, and is being formed by players who have extensive knowledge about Brawl.

Also, there are a LOT of character specific ATs. Just a warning.
Look at this thread, these apply to JUST toon link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=228712
 
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#25
A lot of those AT's aren't really legitimate though

Like bomb spikes are so unlegitimate. It's just a stage spike by a bomb.
 
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#28
So it seems like we're doing

Universal Terms
Most of the Char. Specific Techniques. (not to be confused with tricks)
No Melee Terms
No Community Terms. (Unless TheMike feels like getting the BBR to do it)
 

TheMike

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#29
We can do the community terms as a separate project(like T-block said), and then link it to the terms list thread. But only if you guys think it's necessary.
 
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#31
By community terms do you mean stuff like "double elimination" and "BYOC"? If so, then yeah, I think they're too different from ATs/Smash terminology to be the same project.
 
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#33
I'm a Melee player, but come on now. This is going into BRAWL Tactical Discussion. So scrap Melee terms, though I'd be super up for working on a Melee Standard Terms list with the help of the MBR and people like Adum and Cape.

Also, imo, those terms T-block listed aren't community terms, but moreso tournament terms. A community list would, I think, consist of stuff like "*****", "10'insert object here'", "johns", etc., and would be posted in Meet and Greet. Though that isn't really a project for the Smash Lab. :p

Also Bengals, rPSI has a point. Change "Special Airdodge Cancel" to "Special Charge airdodge Cancel".

I'm relly happy to see that the ball got rolling on this. I'll add another term for analysis in a bit.
 
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#34
I'd find it hard to take any list that defines "*****" seriously =P So yeah, I think we should leave that for some other group.

Requesting clarification on "cancelling" and "cancelled"... so X cancelling Y means that the character is cancelling X by inputting Y. In other words, the move Y is "X-cancelling". I can't figure out what X cancelled Y would mean ._.
 

KayLo!

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#35
I can't figure out what X cancelled Y would mean ._.
Y is canceled by X.

The easiest way to understand is to look at the word before Y. If it's "canceling," Y is doing the canceling..... if it's "canceled," Y is being canceled.
 
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#38
For reference:
Melee And Brawl
Turn Around Neutral B (Reverse Neutral B) {in the air, tap back, then neutral B; turns your neutral b around}
Boost Grab {interrupting the initial frames of a dash attack with a grab; can be used for extra momentum}
Dash {the initial section of a run}
Fox Trotting {Starting a new dash at the end of your dash window}
Jump Cancel (JC) usmash/Up-B {During the jump startup, usmash or up b; does a grounded usmash/up b}
Pivot Grab {melee: pivot into a grab; brawl: hit back then grab: performs a special reverse grab}
Auto Cancel {landing while during a specific window on an attack resulting in only normal landing lag}
Meteor Cancel {canceling momentum of a Meteor Smash}

Shield Canceling {shield to stop running}
De-sync [ICs] {having the ICs do separate things or with separate timings}
Rising Pound [jiggs] {Jiggs' upward angled side b}
Missile Canceling [Samus]{landing right after shooting a missle with samus}
Short Hop (SH) {releasing the jump command before leaving the ground; shorter jump}
FastFall (FF) {pressing down on the way down while in normal aerial control; fall faster}
Shield Grabbing {grabbing out of shield}
Teching {pressing R before being slammed into a surface; cuts knockback/ stands up fast}

Edge Hogging {being on the edge preventing someone else from being on it}
Edge Hopping (aka Ledge Hopping){dropping from the edge, then air jumping back to the stage}
Edge Jumping (aka Ledge Jumping) {Jumping off of the edge by pressing a Jump input while on the edge}

Dash Dancing {dashing one way, then the other during dash}
Hitlag {The freeze frames shared by the hitter and hittee of an attack after hit, but before the hittee is sent flying}
Hitstun {The window which someone sent flying can take no actions in}
Directional Influence (DI) {Bending the trajectory of knockback by holding the control stick in a perpendicular to knockback position during the last frame of hitlag; "DI" ONLY applies to the bending of knockback while being hit, not while moving your character through the air}
Smash DI (SDI) {Pressing the control stick during hitlag to give you an instantaneous small teleport}
Automatic Smash DI (ASDI) {Holding a direction during the last frame of hitlag with either stick - c stick has priority - to generate a teleport 1/2 SDI length in the direction held}

Drifting {Holding sideways in the air while under control of your character to cause it to move more left or right; NOT DI}
Tumble {The window which someone sent flying can take an action in, but is still falling}
Blockstun {The window which a shielder is stuck in shield after the shield is hit NOT COUNTING HITLAG}
Powershield {Shielding only a few frames before an attack would hit you and getting the different shield}
Short Hop (optional]Double/ triple) Laser (SH[D/T]L) [Fox, Falco, Wolf]

Float Cancel [Peach]{dropping out of a float to the ground to end an aerial; normal landing lag in Melee}
Needle Canceling [Sheik] {pressing R to cancel charging needles on sheik}
Shield Dropping {on a platform out of your shield, slowly press down to drop through the platform, from directly in your shield}
Jump Cancel _____ (JC _____) {canceling your jump with ______}
Jump Canceling (no abbrv) {canceling something with a jump}
Bomb Jump [samus] {receiving a vertical boost from a down b exploasion (samus only)}
Zair {an aerial done using the grab button that is not a nair, fair, dair, bair, or uair}
Tether Recovery [anyone with a zair] {brawl: autosweetspots the edge - fails if edgehogged; Melee can grab the wall anywhere and doesn't afraid of anything}
Walljump [several characters] {Jumping off a wall; does not take a midair jump}
Sweetspot {grabbing the edge directly out of your recovery, removing the ending animation; alternatively, grabbing the edge from max range; when referencing a part of an attack, the hitbox that has the most effect}
Grab Release {when a grabee breaks out of a grab}
Chain Grab (CG) {Grabbing a character just thrown before their hitstun ends}
Out of Shield (OoS) {performing an action from in your shield}


Brawl
Platform Auto Snap {Pressing down when passing through a moving platform to automatically land on it}
B-Reversal {smash back immediately after doing a special; turns you around in some specials}
B Bouncing (BB) {using momentum from a momentum generating special to push you}
Boost [Smashing/Item Throwing/Pivot Grab] (replaces the term DAC/ DACUS){Immediately canceling a dash attack by either a usmash, throwing an item, or pivot grabbing; slides various distances}
Craq Walking {Drifting backwards and taking a single step backwards when landing to gain a momentum slide}
Glide Toss {throwing an item in the early part of a roll; ends the roll with momentum}
Jump Cancel (JC) Item Throw {canceling a jump with an item throw; generates momentum}
Platform Drop Cancel {begin dropping through a platform put up your shield; end in standing shield position on the platform}
Reverse Aerial Rush (RAR) {run, turn around, jump; in the air facing opposite how you were running, with momentum in the direction of your run}

Edge Popping {holding down to avoid sweetspot}
Grab Armor (Armor Grab) {The superarmor received while you are grabbing, on the frame you grabbed them}
AirWalk {run off the edge, and walk back onto it}
Crawl Dashing {walk forward, start crawling back; slide backwards}
Jab Lock {locking someone in a fallen state with jabs}
Stutter Stepping {using the window for pressing sideways for an fsmash to dash a bit then fsmash}

Dribbling {glide tossing downward to generate different movement}
Infinite Second Jump (ISJ) ?better term? {performing a double jump right before landing with certain aerials or specials; instead of landing, you double jump, refreshes double jump}
Dashing Usmash {doing a usmash directly out of dash}
Dash Attack Hit Cancel Up Smash (DAHCUS) {cancels a dash attack immediately into a usmash after hit; only in early part of dash attack}
Edge Hugging (Hugging) {running off the edge, and immediately grabbing it by holding back}
Instant Pivot Grab {inputting dashgrabcstick back; performs a pivot grab very quickly}
Dashing Usmash {pressing up C to perform a usmash out of run/dash}
Input Delay {Built in time it takes your input to take effect when playing on Wifi}
 
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#39
So I highlighted the ones I think should stay. But that also makes me think we should include basic terms and AT's separate from each other. Like SH is entirely different from something like CG.
 

Blacknight99923

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#40
I agree. Melee terms specific to melee should not be included in a brawl terms list unless its something that is in both games.

and RPSI how do you intend to separate them? Divide them into like movement and ATs?
 
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