Meta SSBU Stagelist Discussion

[Untouch]

Hazards off Minecraft does not spawn the blocks, platforms are based on the layout and thus are random.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Hazards off Minecraft does not spawn the blocks, platforms are based on the layout and thus are random.

【マインクラフト ワールド バイオームの選択】
ステージセレクト画面にて、特定のボタンを押しながら「マインクラフト ワールド」を選択すると、好きなバイオームで遊べます。それぞれのバイオームの選択コマンドはこちら。#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/STMNubggPk

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) October 12, 2020

Apparently you can force a specific biome.

 

[Master_Gamer]

Minecraft World has to be legal now. You can choose which biome to play on and hazards off removes all blocks except for the platforms.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

So do the secret input codes work on other stages?

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

So Minecraft World with hazards off removes the floor blocks, Birch and Igloo variants have decent platform placement, and you can force which Biome you want so it's not random.

What are the excuses to not make this legal this time? I really fail to see a problem with this

Hell, Birch Biome in particular has almost the exact same layout as Treetop Lodge from Rivals of Aether!

 

[TCT~Phantom]

So Minecraft World with hazards off removes the floor blocks, Birch and Igloo variants have decent platform placement, and you can force which Biome you want so it's not random.

What are the excuses to not make this legal this time? I really fail to see a problem with this

View attachment 289240
View attachment 289241

Hell, Birch Biome in particular has almost the exact same layout as Treetop Lodge from Rivals of Aether!

View attachment 289242

Unless the blast zones turn out to be cancerous, which from playing a bit they don’t seem to be, there is no argument against Igloo and Birch. Both seem to be great stages with awesome layouts.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Unless the blast zones turn out to be cancerous, which from playing a bit they don’t seem to be, there is no argument against Igloo and Birch. Both seem to be great stages with awesome layouts.

Oh, they'll find something wrong with it...

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Oh, they're find something wrong with it...

But what if people choose the wrong one >_>...

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

But what if people choose the wrong one >_>...

Then just... re-choose the correct one? It takes what, all of 30 seconds?

 

[IsmaR]

30 seconds done repeatedly over who knows how many set ups throughout an entire day adds up. It's part of the reason so many are wary of doing hazards on/hazards off hybrid rulesets despite consistent solutions being posted so many times. No matter how many times reminders are said, there's always gotta be that one impulsive guy that mashes/misclicks/forgets.

I do agree the layouts should get the fair chance, but could also see only 1 layout being tried at a time for making it more easy to memorise. Either way, we're waiting on the blast zone data. From personal testing I've seen winter biome has different ceiling heights than Kalos/PS2.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I'm personally on team Savanna when it comes to which Minecraft biome to legalise (first), but that's just because I've wanted How to Play 64 playable in an official capacity for ages now and this is probably the closest we'll ever get.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

So we have 4 possible new legal stage picks...



-Birch forest (L+R) - Duo plats (Higher right plat, Treetop Lodge)

-Savanna (L+left stick up) - Solo Left plat

-Snowy Tundra (L+left stick down) - Duo plats (Even height)

-Stone Shore (L+left stick right) - Solo Right plat



Plains and Taiga are just walled FD's like Wily's.
Stage list discussions are gonna be fun!

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

So we have 4 possible new legal stage picks...



-Birch forest (L+R) - Duo plats (Higher right plat, Treetop Lodge)

-Savanna (L+left stick up) - Solo Left plat

-Snowy Tundra (L+left stick down) - Duo plats (Even height)

-Stone Shore (L+left stick right) - Solo Right plat



Plains and Taiga are just walled FD's like Wily's.
Stage list discussions are gonna be fun!

I'm personally anti-Tundra, we have enough symmetrical dualplats as is - I think having both Forest and either Shore or Savanna (take your pick, not both though) would work best. Two Animal Crossing stages was never an issue, so why not two Miney Crafta stages?

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

I'm personally anti-Tundra, we have enough symmetrical dualplats as is - I think having both Forest and either Shore or Savanna (take your pick, not both though) would work best. Two Animal Crossing stages was never an issue, so why not two Miney Crafta stages?

If I had to choose, I'd pick Birch and Savanna

Stone Shore is cool aesthetically, but Savanna edges out due to the fact that the solo left plat is slightly tucked in, wheras over on Stone Shore the solo right plat hangs near the edge, it's just Kalos with one platform missing. Having that left plat tucked in a little more makes recovery just that much more risky.

I'm a big supporter of Birch for the alternating height platforms, it's like what Mementos could have been! And again: It has the exact same layout as Treetop Lounge in Rivals

 

[Ben Holt]

【マインクラフト ワールド バイオームの選択】
ステージセレクト画面にて、特定のボタンを押しながら「マインクラフト ワールド」を選択すると、好きなバイオームで遊べます。それぞれのバイオームの選択コマンドはこちら。#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/STMNubggPk

— 大乱闘スマッシュブラザーズ【スマブラ公式】 (@SmashBrosJP) October 12, 2020

Apparently you can force a specific biome.

I wish all random stages could have this feature.

 

[Alias Tex]

Why not make things simple and consider Minecraft World to be one entry on the stage list, but the loser from the last game (whoever is counterpicking) chooses the inputs for determining the stage layout? When done this way, only the one strongest counterpick layout is relevant to player choices during stage selection, even though all of them are available. I’m pretty sure that the platforms are the only difference between the stages, and by doing it this way we avoid bloating the list with stages of above average size, which is going to be the main argument against adding more than one of them. It also means that you can get by with only memorizing the biome input for your character’s one favorite layout, though top players may care to memorize them all anyways. Furthermore, this is a much easier way to make stage lists more consistent between tournaments, because the alternative is the layouts competing with each other, which would likely lead to each tournament having its own confusing rules on which biome or two is playable. This is an easy way to get everyone on the same page and maximizes the stage’s contribution to the stagelist.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Why not make things simple and consider Minecraft World to be one entry on the stage list, but the loser from the last game (whoever is counterpicking) chooses the inputs for determining the stage layout? When done this way, only the one strongest counterpick layout is relevant to player choices during stage selection, even though all of them are available. I’m pretty sure that the platforms are the only difference between the stages, and by doing it this way we avoid bloating the list with stages of above average size, which is going to be the main argument against adding more than one of them. It also means that you can get by with only memorizing the biome input for your character’s one favorite layout, though top players may care to memorize them all anyways. Furthermore, this is a much easier way to make stage lists more consistent between tournaments, because the alternative is the layouts competing with each other, which would likely lead to each tournament having its own confusing rules on which biome or two is playable. This is an easy way to get everyone on the same page and maximizes the stage’s contribution to the stagelist.

This. I like this.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Playing on the stage more and more, it feels somewhat between PS2 and Kalos in size. Unlike say Mementos, which felt clearly larger than Kalos (though I would still petition for Mementos in Doubles), this stage feels...good. It aint to big, no real hurdles, and the layouts are nice (My favorite is Birch, would prefer if we had to do only one it would be birch).

Here is what I would currently suggest should be the standard stage list. I am doing a wide counterpick for the sake of argument that these all are reasonable stages. TBH if the counterpick stage list is as reasonable as this, we might even want to consider seasonal rotation of stages.

Starter
Small Battlefield
Battlefield
Final Destination (Omegas and Battlefields that are not disruptive obviously are kosher)
Smashville
Town and City

Counterpicks
Pokemon Stadium 2
Lylat Cruise
WarioWare
Yoshi's Story
Kalos Pokemon League
Yggdrasil's Alter
Minecraft World (Birch if we have to force one, I think Savannah and Shore seem ok too)

Honestly, this is a fine stage list with a lot of variety in it, both visually, size wise, and stage layout wise.

#LegalizeYggdrasil #LegalizeMinecraftWorld #LegalizeBirch


Also once again pitching that we test Mementos and Mushroom U for doubles.

 

[Lacrimosa]

So, are there Wi-Fi tournaments that already featured the new stage?

 

[BobbyJackson33]

So, are there Wi-Fi tournaments that already featured the new stage?

The only ones I see are steve dittos, but i think if we give it some time, there will picking of this stage.

 

[KurokoGuy]

I Think That Unova Pokémon League (Hazards Off) Should Be Legal

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I Think That Unova Pokémon League (Hazards Off) Should Be Legal

As much as I wish it was legal because I despite Palutena, Small Battlefield kind of kills it’s chances of being legal. Small BF does the role of a Small symmetrical dual play better. Better edges, better lighting, smaller. It’s just a better stage overall.

Now Minecraft World, that’s a stage that should be legal. Also Yggdrasil but it’s not gonna happen .

 

[teluoborg]

So Minecraft World with hazards off removes the floor blocks, Birch and Igloo variants have decent platform placement, and you can force which Biome you want so it's not random.

What are the excuses to not make this legal this time? I really fail to see a problem with this

Hell, Birch Biome in particular has almost the exact same layout as Treetop Lodge from Rivals of Aether!

Size. It's Size. Size's the reason.
Look at the difference in scale between RoA and Smash. Compare the size of the characters.
Minecraft World is 200 units long, If Treetop Lodge was in Smash it'd be more or less 140 units long.
I know the people here don't play competitively but most lists have Kalos and PS2 that are already considered big, open, and favor running away so there's no way tournaments will run a stage that is even bigger than those, with blastzones even larger (at least it's got a 180 ceiling) and higher, harder to reach platforms.

If the stage was at the scale of Treetop Lodge (aka the size of SV) then it would be the perfect addition to any stage list. But it isn't, so it isn't.

 

[StrangeKitten]

If we had two or three more small stages, it's possible Minecraft World would be up for legality. But we don't, so here we are with stagelists where big outwieghs small. This hurts the slower characters by a lot, since they have more ground to cover. Small Battlefield was a step in the right direction, but we are still left wanting for more small stages. We'll see if the next four characters and any surprise stages bring us more small stages. Or maybe they'll fix Warioware, because all it needs is bigger side blast zones

 

[Janx_uwu]

As much as I wish it was legal because I despite Palutena, Small Battlefield kind of kills it’s chances of being legal. Small BF does the role of a Small symmetrical dual play better. Better edges, better lighting, smaller. It’s just a better stage overall.

Now Minecraft World, that’s a stage that should be legal. Also Yggdrasil but it’s not gonna happen .

Big agree on Yggdrasil. I just kinda wish that the background wasn't so in-your-face, but once you get over that it's a perfectly fine competitive stage. I played on it during an in-person tournament last year and well...it's like town and city. But as StrangeKitten mentioned above in regards to Minecraft World, let's wait on making it legal until we get at least one more smallish stage, if we ever do.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

So the new stage we only got a short glimpse of, but... from the brief glimpse of it, Planet's core looks like Kalos. If the blastzones are good, it might be worth looking into at least.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I'm a dualplat, he's a dualplat, you're a dualplat, are there any other dualplats I should know about?

Meow.

We went from getting stages that are completely improbable for competitive play to getting like 3 Kalos/PS2 clones in a row. (Smol, Brown Bricks in Minecrap (snow), PlayStation 2 World)

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

I'm a dualplat, he's a dualplat, you're a dualplat, are there any other dualplats I should know about?

Meow.

We went from getting stages that are completely improbable for competitive play to getting like 3 Kalos/PS2 clones in a row. (Smol, Brown Bricks in Minecrap (snow), PlayStation 2 World)

Okay comp Smash, what's wrong with THIS stage?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Okay comp Smash, what's wrong with THIS stage?

From what people have been speculating about the stage, it's probably a transforming stage. We'll probably have to see more before any verdicts could be made.

Assuming this is all there is, the answer is probably "I like Kalos Pokémon League better".

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Okay comp Smash, what's wrong with THIS stage?

My understand is its going to be an overzealous composer issue, aka streams can't use Earthbound, FF or DQ music because they'll get the copyright strike hard.

 

[StrangeKitten]

The new stage looks like it could be legal. Might even be worth running over Kalos if it's smaller. But it's too early to make definitive judgements. I wish I could say hazards off would grant us a legal stage, but hazardless is such a crapshoot that we don't know yet whether disruptive hazards will be an issue.

 

[Swordplay]

Okay on the new stage assuming it's really good and it is essentially what we see. How would smash ultimate handle the idea of DLC stages for online tournaments during the pandemic.

Are you required to have the DLC stage? Fairness striking process or counterpick the process?

I don't think I've ever seen precedent for this.

 

[IsmaR]

Okay comp Smash, what's wrong with THIS stage?

Absolutely nothing, but just like Midgar, it's going to have every single VOD/stream/etc. struck with copyright claims the moment FF7 music (especially if the Advent Children version of OWA from the trailer is in) plays.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Well if the music wasn't enough: I near instantly got motion sickness the moment they started playing on the stage on the stream, faster than I do with Clock Tower.

100% banned.

 

[Untouch]

Looking at the stream, the stage looks GIGANTIC.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I can handle Umbra Clock Tower fine except for when the dragon appears. That looked more distracting than the dragon, and for longer. I don't think the stage will see much competitive use due to distracting background alone.

 

[teluoborg]

Played on the stage for 2 hours and had no background problem. Time will tell but NC seems like a solid replacement for Kalos.

 

[IsmaR]

If anyone's curious on the differences

Northern Cave data

Ignoring decimals, stage length same as Kalos
Platform height a little higher than BF (24.5)
Top blastzone 177, lower than FD by 3 units
Bottom blastzone -140, same as FD
Side blastzones 237, lower than FD by 3 units pic.twitter.com/YrTd2tnBwK

— Ruben (@Ruben_dal) December 18, 2020

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well if the music wasn't enough: I near instantly got motion sickness the moment they started playing on the stage on the stream, faster than I do with Clock Tower.

100% banned.

Wait seriously? Yikes. It sounds like Nintendo should just stop making moving stages at this point since every single one of them seems to cause motion sickness.

Or at least have a background locking feature. You'd lose some of the context for stages like Umbra Clock Tower, but at least motion sickness wouldn't be such a common problem anymore.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

M2K made a video discussing legalizing this stage. He even brought up the background criticism, noting we have FD in our rule set rn. Just figured it could be an interesting very pro Northern Cave viewpoint.