Squirtle

[Kris121]

Can some one change the PT match up NOW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phb3GGMi7os:p

 

[Adriel]

The link does not work, but I'm guessing it's Reflex videos, yes?

 

[Carbonated]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phb3GGMi7os

 

[Adriel]

You need to realize that Reflex is a very good player, and that that Falco player had far less skill as a player than Reflex. If a competent Falco player goes against a competent Pokemon Trainer of equal skill levels, then the Pokemon Trainer has very little chance of winning.

 

[J4pu]

You just called kismet a bad falco...
Kismet isn't bad, but Reflex is definitely a better player.

Kris, one game does not in any way indicate that the match-up needs to be changed.

 

[Carbonated]

You just called kismet a bad falco...
Kismet isn't bad, but Reflex is definitely a better player.

Kris, one game does not in any way indicate that the match-up needs to be changed.

I didn't mean bad, more of not the greatest. I usually underrate people for some reason, calling people like seth and sk92 good instead of amazing and people who are good average >_> I don't know why

 

[Hyo]

regardless of the game, that was slaughter.

On the other hand, it's Reflex. I dunno man.. show us moar, then maybe. ;D

 

[Hawks go Caw]

You just called kismet a bad falco...
Kismet isn't bad, but Reflex is definitely a better player.

Kris, one game does not in any way indicate that the match-up needs to be changed.

It's not neccesarily the one game though. If Squirtle's Utilt lock wasn't known during the the initial match-up discussion then I think it changes it a bit. Utilt lock till 60-70%? ****.

Plus, people talking crap about Kismet is dumb. He did really well especially when considering his opponent. He made a good come back in the second game and probably would've done better the third game if Reflex weren't so beast on Norfair.

 

[J4pu]

Squirtle's Utilt lock on Falco will not do anywhere neaar 60% ever
it won't even do 35 if they know how to SDI

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

SDI.... I guess I can no longer neglect not learning how to do it lol It's like being used to escape from everything. Maybe that would make combos possible in brawl just take away the SDI lol

 

[Emperor Time]

You need hitstun for combos....

 

[kismet2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phb3GGMi7os

He put the as part of the link.

Anyways that falco wasn't that good but that lock... >_<

Thanks.

Squirtle's Utilt lock on Falco will not do anywhere neaar 60% ever
it won't even do 35 if they know how to SDI

Yeah I just found out about that recently and I can get out much earlier.

You need hitstun for combos....

Squirtle's attacks are fast, which is probably why they link up well. Squirtle's Uair somehow gives me hitstun and the Uair has low cooldown so he can use it again in like the next second.

 

[Steel]

Kismet probably had.... 0 match up experience in this match?

Really doesn't mean much unless the matches start to get more consistent in the tourny scene.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

You need to realize that Reflex is a very good player, and that that Falco player had far less skill as a player than Reflex. If a competent Falco player goes against a competent Pokemon Trainer of equal skill levels, then the Pokemon Trainer has very little chance of winning.

4:6 is not ****. -.-
And can't they read your SDI?

 

[AntiC]

Kismet probably had.... 0 match up experience in this match?

Really doesn't mean much unless the matches start to get more consistent in the tourny scene.

You would have no way of knowing this but Kismet has played Reflex multiple times in tourneys, so i wouldn't say it's as much of a match up john as you could consider it. Also from CoT4 he placed even with Reflex. So i would consider Kismet's Falco very skilled in the least. I guess not being well known does make you underrated however.

 

[Steel]

I know Kismet is a great player, he's also somehow in my PA/NJ crew -_- But no I don't have any idea of his exp in the match up, was just a guess.

 

[Tenki]

Yeah I just found out about that recently and I can get out much earlier.



Squirtle's attacks are fast, which is probably why they link up well. Squirtle's Uair somehow gives me hitstun and the Uair has low cooldown so he can use it again in like the next second.

[1] just found out about SDI?

[2] Well, part of the thing is at low %'s/stale, the U-tilts are weak and Falco is in the "hit" animation, so he falls right back into the U-tilts.

 

[Carbonated]

Thanks.

Sorry, I only looked at the first match, which he only had 10% on him and you were on your last stock when I posted that. It just got painful to watch. I looked at the rest and it was much better.

 

[Adriel]

4:6 is not ****. -.-
And can't they read your SDI?

It's worse than just 40:60.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

It's worse than just 40:60.

No it is not. check the match ups. Its more stage dependent really.

 

[Avion]

Wow...that first match was just painful to watch I think the matchup is fine as is, Reflex was just being awesome (as usual).

 

[Shaya]

Squirtle gives Falco issues.

It's like a faster Kirby. It's an extremely dangerous matchup for Falco as he can get destroyed very fast and reasonably easily. You have to rely on jabs and ftilt just to avoid getting ***** by Squirtle's over all better speed. (That falco can't really space or camp through)

 

[Denzi]

Yeah, it's really just Squirtle who gives Falco problems. If matchups were based on only one poké, then it'd be in desperate need of change, but that's not how it works (or else the PT v MK matchup would be a bit closer ) So you definately don't need to hurry to change it, but what with Utilt chains guarenteeing at least some damage, Ivysaur getting out of the CG w/ Bullet Seed, and the discovery of stage teching, we might have to look back into it.

And yes, I do think that (regardless of Kismet's own personal experience) PT's are doing better vs Falcos due (at least in part) to matchup inexperience.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Yeah, it's really just Squirtle who gives Falco problems. If matchups were based on only one poké, then it'd be in desperate need of change, but that's not how it works (or else the PT v MK matchup would be a bit closer ) So you definately don't need to hurry to change it, but what with Utilt chains guarenteeing at least some damage, Ivysaur getting out of the CG w/ Bullet Seed, and the discovery of stage teching, we might have to look back into it.

And yes, I do think that (regardless of Kismet's own personal experience) PT's are doing better vs Falcos due (at least in part) to matchup inexperience.

Actually Charizard gives Falco as much of a problem. Ivysaur fails against Falco even without the CG.

 

[Denzi]

Actually Charizard gives Falco as much of a problem. Ivysaur fails against Falco even without the CG.

Really? I would think that laser spam would be a pretty big problem for Charizard, if you see what I'm saying.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Really? I would think that laser spam would be a pretty big problem for Charizard, if you see what I'm saying.

On certain stages yeah, but up close is where Char shines. Falco has to space like mad to avoid a shield grab. Rock smash just flat out rocks (pun inteded.) Try to CG him and get him in the air. his ground game is a pain to deal with.

 

[Shaya]

Falco has issues getting through Zard's flame thrower (especially at the edge), rock smash outprios phantasm, Charizard's grab game can wreck Falco, and Charizard's fair can gimp hard.

While I say that Squirtle's design was meant to counter Falco, being heavily evened up through the CG, Charizard seems like he was designed to go even, with the laser being THE [only] major deterant. But he can get by the camp tactics of Falco a lot easier than D3 can.

 

[Kris121]

Wow I thought this would be locked on post one but yeah that was just Reflex being Reflex. one of the PT gods.

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

Falco has issues getting through Zard's flame thrower (especially at the edge), rock smash outprios phantasm, Charizard's grab game can wreck Falco, and Charizard's fair can gimp hard.

While I say that Squirtle's design was meant to counter Falco, being heavily evened up through the CG, Charizard seems like he was designed to go even, with the laser being THE [only] major deterant. But he can get by the camp tactics of Falco a lot easier than D3 can.

Squirtle is very hard to grab. Is it possible to do a grab release spike on him?

 

[kismet2]

Kismet probably had.... 0 match up experience in this match?

Really doesn't mean much unless the matches start to get more consistent in the tourny scene.

I play Reflex like all the time and it's squirtle that gives me the most trouble. It's just because squirtle's so fast which makes it hard to grab and/or keep up(depending on the player)

4:6 is not ****. -.-
And can't they read your SDI?

When I'm SDI'ing out it looks like I just teleported out, so by then I can just shield his next Utilt then run.

[1] just found out about SDI?

[2] Well, part of the thing is at low %'s/stale, the U-tilts are weak and Falco is in the "hit" animation, so he falls right back into the U-tilts.

I've already known what SDI was, I just didn't know the appropriate input to get me out the fastest.

And guys it's just squirtle that gives Falco the most trouble. Falco can 0-death Ivysaur with a chain grab to spike and Falco just ***** Charizard(you can reflect his Rock smash btw). Charizard just relies on grabs and aerials, you just chain grab him(assuming you spike him at the ledge), edgeguard him a little(you may take his stock while you're at it) for extra percentage, avoid his grabs, find a method that can take a stock from the Charizard. Only way you can get gimped by Charizard's Fair is if you're being predictable on your recovery.

 

[DanGR]

They're both great players. But come on guys. It's Reflex. That's like saying Metaknight has the advantage over all the characters just because M2K beats everyone with him.

Oh wait...

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

An intresting thing I found is that almost evryone has at least a problem with one.

My Squirtle gives A Dk a run for his money despite Match ups. Charizard goes somewhat well though..
It seems as if PT counters playstyles rather than the characters themselves. He is one big Mindgame.

 

[§witch]

Falco has issues getting through Zard's flame thrower (especially at the edge), rock smash outprios phantasm, Charizard's grab game can wreck Falco, and Charizard's fair can gimp hard.

While I say that Squirtle's design was meant to counter Falco, being heavily evened up through the CG, Charizard seems like he was designed to go even, with the laser being THE [only] major deterant. But he can get by the camp tactics of Falco a lot easier than D3 can.

How is charizard going to get in close?

 

[SSJ5Goku8932]

How is charizard going to get in close?

Rock smash answers everything lol.

Seriously, how does everyone else approach him, by PS or taking the lasers.

 

[Denzi]

Rock smash answers everything lol.

Seriously, how does everyone else approach him, by PS or taking the lasers.

But once you're close I'm pretty sure Charizard can't react (get an attck out) fast enough to stop a Phantasm, starting the whole process over again.

 

[kismet2]

Rock smash answers everything lol.

Seriously, how does everyone else approach him, by PS or taking the lasers.

Trying to get in with rock smash is not what Charizard is supposed to do, unless you're playing a scrub. I posted that you can reflect his rock smash, and if Charizard "gets" in with that move then Falco can just run.

 

[Shaya]

Rocksmash naturally comes out in about 20 frames.

If used in the air (supposibly), from frame 2 onwards, any attack on Charizard will cause the attack to come out early, rendering any phantasm escape extremely dangerous. 46% damage dangerous, that will kill you at 70% (before attack hits) or less.

 

[Denzi]

Rocksmash naturally comes out in about 20 frames.

If used in the air (supposibly), from frame 2 onwards, any attack on Charizard will cause the attack to come out early, rendering any phantasm escape extremely dangerous. 46% damage dangerous, that will kill you at 70% (before attack hits) or less.

But the first half of Phantasm has invulnerability, and Charizard should be near enough to hit you with rocksmash when he uses it. Assuming they are, Phantasm through it, if they aren't, you can just keep lasering.

 

[Shaya]

Denzi, I'm not exactly sure what argument you're trying to present in that post...

If Charizard predicts your phantasm, sh reverses it (so he's facing away from you), you are in trouble... If you hit him with your phantasm during a rocksmash you are most likely going to get hit anyway (the splash damage lasts for a while, and has good range). If you're hit with said splash damage you're going to get combo'd into an usmash.

I don't even play PT, but I play Falco regularly against a guy who does. Escaping Zard's wrath once you're in a corner isn't easy.

 

[Denzi]

Denzi, I'm not exactly sure what argument you're trying to present in that post...

If Charizard predicts your phantasm, sh reverses it (so he's facing away from you), you are in trouble... If you hit him with your phantasm during a rocksmash you are most likely going to get hit anyway (the splash damage lasts for a while, and has good range). If you're hit with said splash damage you're going to get combo'd into an usmash.

I don't even play PT, but I play Falco regularly against a guy who does. Escaping Zard's wrath once you're in a corner isn't easy.

The point I was trying to make was that it's easier to camp a Charizard then you guys are making it out to be. I might be wrong though, as the only PT I've played was just decent.

I also didn't think the damage from an interrupted RS did the full 43%.