Squirtle Tactical Discussion

[Vermy]

Hydroplane dsmash against roll spammers like Lucario and Kirby.

 

[Buuda]

Yeah dat D-smash can be total ****-slap to the face to peeps recovering, and I've definitely seen it stage spike once or twice (out of millions of hits. lol.)

 

[CHOMPY]

Does anyone use Squirtle's Waterfall move as an offensive move?

 

[Magik0722]

Never. Dont even think like that chompy.

 

[CHOMPY]

I found it useful when your trying to get back on the stage and you can throw your opponent off by using waterfall as a ledge attack to get back on the stage.

 

[T-block]

^I've definitely done that - the hitbox is huuuuge.

I've also KO'd a Cypher'ing Snake off the top corner with Waterfall.

 

[Zigsta]

I found it useful when your trying to get back on the stage and you can throw your opponent off by using waterfall as a ledge attack to get back on the stage.

I do that very rarely. Waterfall's easy to DI out of, and using it too often will lead to getting punished.

 

[Buuda]

I'd say you can use it if someone doesn't know the matchup, which, fortunately, a lot of people don't. lol. I don't do it very often, though. Maybe once or twice in a set at most.

 

[CHOMPY]

How do you guys perform a really long glide toss?

Is it the same timing with Ivysaur and Charizard as well?

 

[T-block]

Only Squirtle's glide toss would be considered long. I think he might have to be facing the opposite way of where you want to toss, then toss forward.

 

[Buuda]

I just Hydro-toss.

 

[CoonTail]

How do you guys perform a really long glide toss?

Is it the same timing with Ivysaur and Charizard as well?

This is a question Ive had for a real long time to squirtle's glide toss confuses the crap outta me.....sometimes its the length of Diddy's, while other times the glide toss is as long as marth's.

How do you perform the long and short glide toss'?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

This is a question Ive had for a real long time to squirtle's glide toss confuses the crap outta me.....sometimes its the length of Diddy's, while other times the glide toss is as long as marth's.

How do you perform the long and short glide toss'?

Press the C-Stick at a different time.

If I'm not mistaken, the longer distance is accomplished by pressing the C-Stick sooner (as in, cloer to the same time as the analog stick).

 

[Magik0722]

I like to glide toss a banana with squirtle and catch it before it touches the ground

 

[CHOMPY]

I like to glide toss a banana with squirtle and catch it before it touches the ground

You know if your opponent puts up their shield and an item (banana) bounces off the shield, you can re catch the banana by pressing the Z button and keep up the pressure.

 

[-_skinny_-]

Ok, so i know how to do the all the hydro tactics, but what makes them work? Is it technically like a DACUS and you keep your momentum from your pivot, or is it some other reason?

Spoiler

possibly magic

 

[Steeler]

i think you keep the momentum from the pivot at the point that you cancel. since squirtle's pivot is quite quick, pivot canceling gives him quite a bit of momentum to work with. and like DACUS, everyone can perform the technique but not many get something notable.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Hey, guys--Important question.

You know how if a Snake is recovering, you can do an aerial near Cypher and it will hit you when Snake is knocked off?

I was wondering...if you SDI that hit up and toward Snake, could you give chase without having to use your mid-air jump? That would give Squirtle an ability to chase Snake's recovery not unlike Meta Knight's Shuttle Loop links.

 

[humble]

Hey, guys--Important question.

You know how if a Snake is recovering, you can do an aerial near Cypher and it will hit you when Snake is knocked off?

I was wondering...if you SDI that hit up and toward Snake, could you give chase without having to use your mid-air jump? That would give Squirtle an ability to chase Snake's recovery not unlike Meta Knight's Shuttle Loop links.

Well you need a move that knocks him off cyper, low knockback, then you need to jump/up-B into his cyper (you hit him from the side, cyper rises up), then DI the hit to follow him- Sounds shaky, needs testing.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Well you need a move that knocks him off cyper, low knockback, then you need to jump/up-B into his cyper (you hit him from the side, cyper rises up), then DI the hit to follow him- Sounds shaky, needs testing.

Stale/fatigued F-Air, B-Air, and N-Air all accomplish a low-knockback effect that gets him off Cypher. Plus, Snake is really, really heavy. The issue appears to be whether or not using SDI on the Cypher hit will bring you high enough to get him again without another jump.

 

[T-block]

I'm having a bit of trouble picturing this in my head.

But if you're relying on SDI alone, my guess would be no. There can't be very much hitlag on the cypher hit... I doubt it'd be humanly possible to get mroe than two inputs off.

Even if it were possible, you probably wouldn't be able to get more than one link, so killing like MK does is very unlikely.

 

[Steeler]

knowing when you'll be hit seems like a bigger problem to me since, yeah, there isn't much hitlag there

 

[TheReflexWonder]

What if Squirtle is at a high percent? Or does Cypher have set knockback?

 

[o-Serin-o]

Cypher has knockback iirc.

 

[humble]

By the way, Bowser can grab snake off the cypher with side-B, fly into it as it rises, and it'll force release snake, who can't cypher again.


As far as squirtle goes, to conserve your jump you'd have to up-B into cypher, which I'm not sure would work. It'd take too long for a guarenteed followup afterward, but you could sort of chase him I suppose. Just keep knocking him off w/ weak hit, up-B into cypher, DI towards snake, repeat when he tries again. It's a suicide mission really, but worth a shot.

 

[T-block]

Pretty sure up-b won't hit him out until the final hit.

 

[Zigsta]

Bowser's Klaw doesn't grab Snake out of his Cypher, at least not how you're wording it, humble. If you aim the Klaw for the top of the Cypher, Bowser takes the hit, and Snake loses his up B, but Snake doesn't take any damage.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

You don't necessarily have to conserve your jump; the idea is that you don't have to use a mid-air jump after you've already hit him in order to hit him again.

 

[CHOMPY]

Realistically, you would probably have to use up most (all) of your jumps in order to chase Snake, since Snake is going to be high up in the air (close to the ceiling).

Are you guys talking about Squirtle trying to get hit by the Cypher, just like how Metaknight get's hit by the Cypher if Metaknight used the Up + B move to hit Snake?

 

[T-block]

Yes, except since Squirtle doesn't have multiple jumps, we're relying on SDI to get us higher lol

 

[MBlaze]

I was playing Squirtle recently, and I do have to say that if he didn't have two tumors named Ivysaur and Charizard, I'd probably would have mained him before Diddy before looking for a main or at least made him a second now.

 

[RichBrown]

When you're gimping snake just jump really high really early and it will scare him and he will recover lower sometimes

That SDI the cypher idea sounds **** though

lol late night boredom brought me to the PT social boards wtf

Oh also I like to jump at people to scare them into airdodging and then grab them when they land and dthrow them

 

[CoonTail]

I was playing Squirtle recently, and I do have to say that if he didn't have two tumors named Ivysaur and Charizard, I'd probably would have mained him before Diddy before looking for a main or at least made him a second now.

**** MBlaze I can't believe Im actually seeing you on the PT boards but Im getting home on august 7th and Ill be goihg to some of the LI tournies at GT and what not so if you want a little squirtle knowledge I can deff help you!!!

Its been since way to long since we been at a tourny together

 

[TheReflexWonder]

As it turns out, you can angle Squirtle's F-Smash, and the hitbubble data suggests that it hits a good deal below the ledge.

I'm looking into the potential of using down-angled F-Smash as an edgeguarding tool.

The super armor frames combined with hitlag produced from getting hit makes me wonder if it can stay out and punish after ledge invincibility.

 

[@TKbreezy]

wow...subscribed...i only was subscribed to the social thread because that seemed like the only place people were posting...but umm...that SDI deal with snake cyphers sounds either

1.too risky
2.too impractical....not saying its bad but just its kind've like how D3's get a free uptilt out of someone mashing out of inhale...but since nobody really mashes out of inhale it doesnt matter.

 

[CHOMPY]

Are we better off to short hop instead of full hopping with Squirtle?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Are we better off to short hop instead of full hopping with Squirtle?

Usually not, since you can use an immediate F-Air or B-Air and be safer with the extra rise, but short hops definitely have their place.

 

[Ingoro]

Let´s say you hydro grabbed Wario and then slided towards the edge, eventuelly reaching the edge. Does Wario the air releasses? and if yes, what moves can hit while he's still inable to move? a SH fair?

 

[Steeler]

yes, ingoro. landing hydrograbs like that are really great in that matchup, but wario can do a pretty good job of protecting himself from them.

out of release you can hit all 5 of your aerials, usmash (it's not the strongest hitbox though), utilt...i don't think fsmash angled up will reach.

 

[T-block]

Ugh I really should know this.

IIRC, f-smash will hit if he air releases at the edge. If he's over ground and he air releases for some reason, f-smash won't hit.