Squirtle Tactical Discussion

[Kantō]

what are those chaingrabs ?

isnt it just grab release? how is squirtles done?

 

[Steeler]

kith have you played shaky?

 

[Kith]

Not yet, but I will. I've watched him play though. He's really good...

@Kanto
Charizard's chaingrab is simple. Grab->pummel->release->repeat

Squirtle's is only slightly harder
It's grab->pummel->release->walk forward SLIGHTLY->repeat

 

[Magik0722]

heres a video of it being done kanto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS2ooJYY_a0

 

[T-block]

stage really helps... if your region uses stage strike with 5 stages, ness will most likely strike lylat and yoshi's, so you can take him to FD, making it really hard for him to avoid being grabbed. on a stage like norfair, the match becomes winnable for ness

ermm...yeah, don't get overaggressive...you're not gonna be able to get past f-air.

 

[Steeler]

why would ness strike those stages? are the platforms really that much of a hindrance for him? i would think he'd strike FD against a PT.

 

[Kith]

I hope so. Smashville is better lol grab release to downtilt as charizard kills earlier, and you can baton pass

 

[Kantō]

heres a video of it being done kanto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS2ooJYY_a0

stage really helps... if your region uses stage strike with 5 stages, ness will most likely strike lylat and yoshi's, so you can take him to FD, making it really hard for him to avoid being grabbed. on a stage like norfair, the match becomes winnable for ness

ermm...yeah, don't get overaggressive...you're not gonna be able to get past f-air.

thanks a lot guys!

now for the squirtle CG your just grabbing and pummiling until he breaks outs and regrabing correct?

at what percent should u start walking?

is the jab neccesarry?

these questions are also for charizard as well. thanks in advance!

 

[Kith]

thanks a lot guys!
now for the squirtle CG your just grabbing and pummiling until he breaks outs and regrabing correct?

That's Charizards CG. With Squirtle, you do the same thing, but take a small step before you regrab.

 

[Kantō]

okay kool , but are jabs at all necessary in eather grabs at any percent?

 

[Kith]

okay kool , but are jabs at all necessary in eather grabs at any percent?

I don't think I quiite understand what you mean, but the answer is no I guess. You don't need jabs at all. All you have to do is grab them, pummel them, grab release, and regrab (with squirtle you have to take that little step forward).

 

[Kantō]

lol, what i mean is ,

is it necessary to buffer the grab at all, like with a jab...im guessing not though ha

 

[Steeler]

it's easier if you buffer the grab but you don't need to.

with squirtle you have to walk for like a frame or 2 first so you can't buffer the grab anyway

 

[Kantō]

okay kool thats what i wanted to know. u guys have been a lot of help. i will be on the PT boards more often cuz of this.
here my qustions actually got anwered haha.

 

[Kith]

okay kool thats what i wanted to know. u guys have been a lot of help. i will be on the PT boards more often cuz of this.
here my qustions actually got anwered haha.

lol glad we could help :-)

 

[T-block]

why would ness strike those stages? are the platforms really that much of a hindrance for him? i would think he'd strike FD against a PT.

it's hard for ness to recover on yoshi's, with shy guys, support ghost, and even just the sides of the stages. lylat because of the tilt, although you may be right...most ness's might strike FD before lylat. i think i'd rather fight ness on lylat than FD, but that might just be me =P

 

[Kantō]

i think id rather fight ness on Lylat, but at the same time your gunna mess up your CG's more prolly.
but yoshis island i never thought of the shyguys as a plus.


what do u mean by support ghosts T-block? im not familiar with that term...

 

[Kith]

i think id rather fight ness on Lylat, but at the same time your gunna mess up your CG's more prolly.
but yoshis island i never thought of the shyguys as a plus.


what do u mean by support ghosts T-block? im not familiar with that term...

 

[Kantō]

oh okay the platforms, gotchya!

 

[Buuda]

Personally, I always CP Lylat, especially against characters with terrible recovery because the slants make Water Gun significantly better, seeing as how you can actually push people DOWN into the corner with the right angle, and Flamethrower is great because of the slants. Has anyone ever tried standing on those end platforms and using Water Gun/ Flamethrower? Water Gun especially in that spot is h4x from my experience. Oh, and I noticed Squirtle tends to "scar" (or whatever it's called when you "hit" the edge and regain a jump and recovery) on that stage. Does anyone think it'd be beneficial to try and master this? I notice he does it quite a bit on other stages, too, more than a lot of characters do. I'd say the only character that does it more is Wolf, lol. Kain is insane with that. XD But yeah, discuss. (Sorry if it seems like I'm unnecessarily bumping this, but I'd say it's appropriate).

 

[Zigsta]

Pretty sure what you're talking about isn't called "scarring," as that's a Wolf AT where he goes through the edge of the stage with his side B.

I've personally always found the whole not catching the ledge on Lylat, PS1, etc. to be more annoying than anything. I know it happens on those stages, but I still don't expect it for a split second.

And yeah, the slants definitely help with Water Gun and Flamethrower. We can also Zero Switch there, but the timing is tricky. The platforms also help Squirtle not get grab released all the way across the stage. All in all, it's a pretty good stage. It can be deadly for Ivysaur, though.

 

[Kith]

I really don't like Lylat too much, unless I'm playing a character that grab releases a lot. The stages tend to get in my way a lot, and mess up my aerial approaches. They also hinder Charizard's ability to get back to the ground, where he's nice and happy...but that's just me though :-\

 

[Buuda]

Pretty sure what you're talking about isn't called "scarring," as that's a Wolf AT where he goes through the edge of the stage with his side B.

I've personally always found the whole not catching the ledge on Lylat, PS1, etc. to be more annoying than anything. I know it happens on those stages, but I still don't expect it for a split second.

And yeah, the slants definitely help with Water Gun and Flamethrower. We can also Zero Switch there, but the timing is tricky. The platforms also help Squirtle not get grab released all the way across the stage. All in all, it's a pretty good stage. It can be deadly for Ivysaur, though.

Ohh. Well whatever it is, I'm wondering if we could perhaps turn it to our advantage. I've SD'd because of it more than once, but I'm thinking maybe that's why we should learn it. Could someone figure out the mechanics behind that and give us some lovely in-game shots? T-block?

Yeah, I don't have the Ivy problem for reasons already known. Gosh I feel like such a d-bag when people talk about Ivy's problems and all I have to say is "He sucks I hate him I try not to play him so I don't care" DX.

 

[Steeler]

the edge dropping thing is REALLY annoying

and you are right kith, zard does not like lylat

 

[Kith]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PrCcuSqAHU
Around 1:40 I go over the hydrojab budda

 

[Buuda]

Hm. I always like both Zard and Squirt for Lylat.... but now that I think about it.... I guess Zard isn't fantastic there, lol. Spams B-button for great justice? XD
Okay guys, so I just watched Kith's video about Hydrojabbing, and it seems like what was described there is the same way I do Hydroplane D-smash. 0_0;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PrCcuSqAHU
Great vid btw, Kith.

 

[Kith]

It's very similar to the way most people do hydroplaned d-smash, but you're tilting up instead of down on the c-stick. It's the same angle though...

 

[Buuda]

That's it?! THIS WHOLE 7 MONTHS I'VE BEEN TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT AND THAT'S IT?!?!?!? IT'S THAT FREAKIN' EASY?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!? SAMEEEE AS D-SMASH?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!!!! WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN KNOW ANYMOAR!

Thanks Kith. You're a doll. (:

Going to sleep. Didn't write my English paper because I've been trollin' the boards the last 3 hours. lol. I'll be on tomorrow.

 

[Kith]

Lmao XD NP. There are a couple of differences though. For one, you have to be holding the Directional Stick up and towards the enemy at a 45 degree angle (The same angle as the C-stick, but towards the opponent, not away). Also, I find it's easier if you just tap the C-stick, as opposed to pushing it all the way.

 

[Buuda]

Ohh alright. Well I suppose it is a little different. Sounds a little tricky. Way trickier than D-smash, lol. Easiest Hydroplane in game, IMO, if not true hydroplane (lol mash thumbstick for victory). Many thanks!

 

[Kith]

NP. Lemme know if you have any questions, or just take a look at the video. You'll see how I move the Directional stick after I come out of the shell-shift. And how I lightly tap the c-stick as opposed to pushing down hard. The easiest way to practice is just not doing the shellshift, and try jabbing with the C-stick. It's entirely possible. Just do what I said, minus the shellshift at the beginning. Once you get that down, throw in the shell-shift and voila. Now I'm off to bed lol

 

[Buuda]

Yeah me too. Gotta be up in 3 hours. DX

 

[T-block]

yeah zard hates lylat from my experiences too

i hate the edge dropping and i have no idea why it happens either. happens on ps1 a lot too. even if we could do it consistently i can't see it being too useful. we don't get any invincibility frames on it, right?

 

[Buuda]

I do hate it, but I've gotten used to it to the point where it seems like it could be utilized. Lylat and PS1 are already (in my opinion) very viable CPs for Lylat, so I think we should use everything we have. At the very least, it'd be a good mix-up, and keep in mind, we get an extra jump from this regardless of how many we already have. Would it be possible to make some sort of diagram or such for this, kind of like the hit bubble screen shots? T-Block? (:
I personally would love to try this out, I mean, particularly if fatigued. Planking is normally bad as PT, but if you're down and need to gain a position or poke at your opponent off the edge, why not go for it and utilize as many tools as possible? Plus, Squirtle has some NAAAASTY stage spikes on Lylat. Like, **** dude. lol

 

[Toby.]

And Ivysaur gets royally ****ed over by it as well.

 

[T-block]

wait, it's happened to your ivy/zard before? i'm pretty sure i've never seen it happen to anyone other than squirtle. what kind of diagram are you talking about?

i could see this being useful if it gave us invincibility when we grabbed the ledge. then if we were expecting it we could double jump right away and use all of the invincibility frames... but i'm pretty sure you don't get any invincibility when you hit the edge and drop like that.

 

[Toby.]

It can't happen to Ivysaur, but the stage is still a problem because vinewhip won't snap to the ledge if it slants and we end up on the wrong side.

Not sure about charizood.

 

[Buuda]

wait, it's happened to your ivy/zard before? i'm pretty sure i've never seen it happen to anyone other than squirtle. what kind of diagram are you talking about?

i could see this being useful if it gave us invincibility when we grabbed the ledge. then if we were expecting it we could double jump right away and use all of the invincibility frames... but i'm pretty sure you don't get any invincibility when you hit the edge and drop like that.

I've never seen it happen to Ivy, save for the occasional "Ivysaur, use Vine Whip!" *whips, comes out, somehow magically misses* (But if failed....). I've never seen Zard do it, but OMG THAT WOULD BE HOT W/ SUPER ARMOERZZZ.

The kind of diagram I'm talking about would have, idk, I guess a little bubble for the specific spot on the ledge that causes the "reset". Also, can someone do some research on this and see if it matters what frame it's on?

The usefulness of this tactic I'd say it mostly mind-games and baiting. I mean, if I saw a Squirtle sittin there spammin' this **** on Lylat, I'd be a little freaked out. lol.

 

[T-block]

are you sure it's hitting a certain spot on the ledge that makes this happen?

 

[Kith]

I'm not so sure that it is. I always thought it had to do with the tilting of the stage. Trying to grab a ledge that no longer is there because of the motion of the stage.