Squirtle Tactical Discussion

[Ingoro]

Ugh I really should know this.

IIRC, f-smash will hit if he air releases at the edge. If he's over ground and he air releases for some reason, f-smash won't hit.

Don't be so harsh on yourself, you can't know everything. It's okay if you don't know one thing of the thousands of things people asked you about Pt.

On topic, so F-smash is the best option? I think U-smash lacks range to hit wario out of his air releasse right?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

On topic, so F-smash is the best option? I think U-smash lacks range to hit wario out of his air releasse right?

I usually D-Air. I think it sends him at a lower angle. Fresh F-Air is also good for KOs.

 

[Magik0722]

I don't believe fsmash hits

Also if its at low percentage do a upair chain

 

[Geenareeno]

Has anyone experimented with sheilding out of shellstalling? Idid it the other day and i was wondering if there were any practical uses of it. Probably not since anything that has to do with shellstalling leaves you pretty open.

 

[Eleotric]

I keep trying to figure out Squirtles timing shellshifted DACUS Usmash and I can't it makes me sad face lol

Anyone have some advice?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I keep trying to figure out Squirtles shellshifted DACUS Usmash and I can't it makes me sad face lol

It's not a DACUS; it's just a jump-cancelled U-Smash at a certain time during your shellshift.

 

[T-block]

Have you checked the AT thread?

Yeah, there's no dash attack in there. You're pivoting out of a run, cancelling the pivot with a jump, and then cancelling the jump with a u-smash.

 

[Zigsta]

Yeah, it's literally run one way, then run the other way to shellshift, and input an upsmash as you're shellshifting. It's really just a matter of practice to get the timing down.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Zigsta you noob, if you repeat things at least repeat it right >: (

 

[Zigsta]

Zigsta you noob, if you repeat things at least repeat it right >: (

I'm not following you on this. XD

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

You must do a JCUsmash, not just an upsmash :3

 

[Zigsta]

You must do a JCUsmash, not just an upsmash :3

Pssh, I just input upsmash and I works. I don't like confusing people, haha.

 

[T-block]

Zigsta plays with Tap Jump On. If you have Tap Jump Off, you'll need to input the jump separately.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Blabla c-stick

Conclusion: Zigsta u noob : (

Oh and hai PT's!

 

[Geenareeno]

I find that AT the hardest to do, it's the only one I can't do. I play with tap jump on, it's probably easer that way right?

 

[Zigsta]

I find it easier with tap jump on, yeah.

 

[bigman40]

You can always claw the controller. Just as easy as having tap jump on.

 

[Ingoro]

I find it easier to perform with tap jump off, to be honest. I can't pull it off with tap jump on. Even more crucial then timing is a good working controller.

Blabla c-stick

Conclusion: Zigsta u noob : (

Oh and hai PT's!

Jonge, kom jij hier doen :O

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I've been lurking here since 2008 u *** :3

 

[typh]

tap jump on FOR LIFE

NEVER FORGET NEVER GIVE IN

 

[Ingoro]

I've been lurking here since 2008 u *** :3

Next tourney, PT ditto, MM 500 euros?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I don't even have 5 euros atm : (

But sure, we'll PT ditto. I'm the best PT in Holland atm anyways iirc lol

 

[Ingoro]

I don't even have 5 euros atm : (

But sure, we'll PT ditto. I'm the best PT in Holland atm anyways iirc lol

Deal, I'd figured you'd say something like that lol.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

BRING IT ON *****, I know the ditto like the back of my hand and the back of that back of my hand.

 

[DanGR]

I'm lookin for some solid mixups out of uptilt at relatively low percents. Like when you uptilt Pikachu twice and he's already DI'd out. Usually at that point I'll try to go for a grab and then fthrow or upthrow, but sometimes he's too high to be grabbed, and I'm not in the mood to just f-air and end the string there. Sometimes I can't upair because he's too far to the side, and it gets pretty boring anyways. ;P

I've been messing around with n-airing after uptilt and trying to land under them for another uptilt or beside them for a grab- maybe a jab combo if they're too low to the ground and may be able to shield. I've had some success.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

They airdodge > grab
They jump > aerial
They attack > roll behind, grab

GG

 

[DanGR]

At this point in the combo I want to avoid going off prediction- I'd rather not play the guessing game at this point in the combo if I'm guaranteed other attacks/strings of attacks of similar reward. Grabbing is about the best thing I can think of if they're off to the side, because you're guaranteed a jab combo

Spoiler

(well, I guess until people learn to DI out of it)

or the chance to put someone in a very unfavorable position with an upthrow, but often times they're able to jump out or drift away before you're able to grab in the first place.

That said, are you actually ever going to take the unnecessary risk of rolling behind them to try to counter an attack you won't know for sure is coming? Is it worth it? >_> And it's more like "roll behind-> will they attack? -> grab if they do."

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

What if there's no guarenteed follow up. Just read your opponent, there are 3 possible outcomes, it's not hard at all.

 

[Steeler]

the quicker you utilt, the more likely you'll be able to use uairs to follow up. honestly we should start doing that against characters that aren't fastfallers or are otherwise susceptible to multiple utilts for some reason.

it's also a really good idea to go for the uairs if there's a platform overhead since it gives you a vertical spacing advantage.

you could try sourspot fair/bair. at that point you either string multiple bairs/fairs together or land and utilt again. it depends on positioning, plus some characters like bowser don't have any options for avoiding juggles out of utilt so you can keep putting them in this mixup position if you are confident.

dj dair is really good since you can catch double jumps AND some airdodges, and it's dangerous for some characters near the edge, like olimar, link, etc.

i'm not big fan of nair but catching people with it right before they land will sometimes result in a jab lock setup.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

ramsesjelsma 6:56 pm
(18:56:31): unfortunately
(18:56:39): theres no frame data on squirtles grab
(18:56:41): so i cant check anything
thelunchrush 6:59 pm
(18:59:57): This might be the equivalent of a new infinite.
(18:59:57): Curses.
(18:59:57): Tell them to do that on the boards, if you don't mind.
(18:59:57): It's important.
(18:59:58): Just, in the Squirtle tactical discussion or the frame data thread.

D:<

 

[TheReflexWonder]

thelunchrush (18:59:57): This might be the equivalent of a new infinite.

Come on, guys. Help me out here.

 

[T-block]

reporting for duty

hit me up on aim

tblock7

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

Wait what?

Infinite on who?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

After testing, it's not an infinite on anyone...

But many opponents will probably only have a single frame to escape, and they don't have the option of buffering, so it should be a nice trap.

More information to come.

 

[T-block]

Posting testing results - I'll let Reflex explain.

Characters with no move with a hitbox/invinicbility on frame 1-3:

<center>
<table border=1>
<tr><th><b>Character</b></th><th><b>Can Standing Regrab?</b></th><th><b>Avoids regrab by...</b></th></tr>
<tr><td>Charizard</td><td>Yes</td><td>Dash</td></tr>
<tr><td>Ganondorf</td><td>Yes</td><td>Must Spotdodge/Roll</td></tr>
<tr><td>Jigglypuff</td><td>Yes</td><td>Dash</td></tr>
<tr><td>King Dedede</td><td>Yes</td><td>Walk</td></tr>
<tr><td>Kirby</td><td>Yes</td><td>Walk, Crouch</td></tr>
<tr><td>Link</td><td>Yes</td><td>Dash</td></tr>
<tr><td>Lucario</td><td>Yes</td><td>Must Spotdodge/Roll</td></tr>
<tr><td>Olimar</td><td>Yes</td><td>Dash</td></tr>
<tr><td>Toon Link</td><td>Yes</td><td>Walk</td></tr>
<tr><td>Sonic</td><td>No</td><td>-</td></tr>
<tr><td>Wario</td><td>Yes</td><td>Must Spotdodge/Roll</td></tr>
<tr><td>Zelda</td><td>No</td><td>-</td></tr>

</table>
</center>

 

[Steeler]

bullet seed has invincibility on frames 1-3 and hits on frame 4

is this just grab out of ground release or what? no one even specified what the infinite is.

 

[T-block]

LOL how did we forget about bullet seed

 

[Magik0722]

It appears they are just talking about grab release chaingrabs
Not true CG but looking at what characters have low options not to grab regrabbed

 

[T-block]

Ermm...yeah, Squirtle gets +2 frame advantage on grab release, while grab comes out on frame 6. So any character without a move that hits on frame 1-3, or has invincibility, has to spot dodge or roll to avoid the grab. Some characters (Kirby, Dedede, Toon Link) can just hold away to walk out of grab range. Others have dash animations that put them out of grab range.

If you know a character has to spot dodge or roll, you can work on predicting those options. The number of characters this applies to is fewer than we were originally hoping for though.

 

[DanGR]

Considering you should already be preemptively SDIing away from Squirtle if he grab releases you at a low percent (making you walk/dash away after the release if Squirtle doesn't jab), is this actually very practical against anyone besides Ganondorf, Lucario, and Wario?

Also, Rest invincibility begins frame 1- hitbox on 2. :X

I wonder if Squirtle's grab animation would put him within range of rest. lol.